Tom Warren: “hardly anyone has them” (Scarlett dev kits) “They’re no where near final”

[Hybrid Rainbow]

Doubt.
They 100% have the APU designed for a while and its not like you can change a ton in performance after that is settled

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lol this. "Want to surprise Sony". Yet, we are literally less than a year away from launch when this is the time that manufacturing is getting pinned down to get ready for holidays 2020? I'm not believing it until I see it. Is it possible? Yes, but I doubt MS is playing 4-D chess like that.

 

[Kolx]

 

[DriftingSpirit]

Who said they're not powerful?
Just because the other is more powerful doesn't mean one isn't powerful at all.

Seems defensive.

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That was my thing with it.

No one even said anything about Scar not being powerful.

 

[Bjones]

this close to launch? they running generic pcs this late?

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Yeah it's nothing like in the past where you absolutely needed real hardware. MS can give a spec and say. " go to it "

 

[Dyashen]

GameCore.

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Yep.

 

[henhowc]

Doakes about to get the drop on Dexter

 

[Bundy]

Tom Warren, author of the Microsoft news site WinRumors, wants to "build a vibrant community of Microsoft fans over at The Verge". I'd say with these kind of tweets he's doing a good job.

 

[radiotoxic]

just one last time...
Scorpio.

Anaconda.

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OK, I'll see myself out.

 

[danrbg]

Then all that narrative in the next generation thread is driven by an erroneous comparison.

 

[melodiousmowl]

remember when so y changed the ram i. the machine last minute? ms remembers.

 

[John Dunbar]

Could it be? Spencer using the secret shadow technique?

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nani?!

 

[Tappin Brews]

excited. i'll take any scarlett leak i can get.

 

[The Bookerman]

Arthur Gies, is that you?

 

[DixieDean82]

Hot take: If it means being the most powerful console MS should delay. Even by a year. Launching next to the PS5 will not matter in the long run. If they do or don't they're going to be doubled in sales worldwide by the PS5 no matter what. That race is over.

Focus on the on the things they can win. Make the most powerful system to play on with the best ecosystem.

 

[Deleted member 52407]

They've had the more powerful console on shelves for two years now, which hasn't really helped them. It's the exclusives race they need to be worried about.

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This isn't entirely true either, to be honest. Microsoft now has their games on even competing platforms like the Switch and even Android with the xCloud beta.

Microsoft views "exclusives" very differently from Sony. Just like their views on the importance of console sales are different, so is this.

 

[christocolus]

Can't wait for the Scarlet reveal.

 

[Manmademan]

Hot take: If it means being the most powerful console MS should delay. Even by a year. Launching next to the PS5 will not matter in the long run. If they do or don't they're going to be doubled in sales worldwide by the PS5 no matter what. That race is over.

Focus on the on the things they can win. Make the most powerful system to play on with the best ecosystem.

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Launching a year late against Sony is suicide no matter how powerful the hardware is. N64 and the OG Xbox found this out the hard way.

 

[Deleted member 20297]

They've had the more powerful console on shelves for two years now, which hasn't really helped them. It's the exclusives race they need to be worried about.

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The X was never done to move the needle in a serious way. Neither marketed, nor priced in a way that would change anything globally. It was clear it was a premium console for a small, dedicated market.
It's completely wrong to infer anything from that.

 

[Premium]

Isn't the X more than competitive? It didn't seem to help one bit.

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Do you understand how momentum at the start of a generation works? Do you suspect mid-gen refreshes would have as significant an impact as starting with a power lead that grabs headlines at a new generation launch?

This is straightforward stuff we're discussing here. Hand-waving an X1X as if it's comparable to a new launch is a bit silly.

 

[bsigg]

Then all that narrative in the next generation thread is driven by an erroneous comparison.

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Do you expect anything different of that thread? Lol

 

[outsida]

I feel like we've seen this movie before.

 

[Cactuar]

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So using this same logic, who's to say the PS5 kits are final? If he wants to play the "surprise Sony" game with this cat & mouse logic it can be applied both ways.

 

[Diarrhea Day-Lewis]

I don't think they can really surprise Sony, PS4 and Xbox One we're only .5TF apart, what's the best they can do? They're working with the same tech more or less.

this time next year is going to be crazy tho with two next gen launches

 

[Dimple]

Maybe tomwarren can come in and clarify what he has heard and Microsofts strategy? A tweet isnt really that great.

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Tom's probably like:

 

[Oticon]

If they are launching next year, the APU has been finalized. Period. You can make changes to like the amount of RAM or storage a console has because those don't need to be customized and fabbed but the APU? That bitch been done for a while now probably.

 

[Detective Pidgey]

What I find odd....

Hardly anyone has them, so a few devs to have them. The ones Andrew was referring to I'm sure. And they said PS5 was stronger. So I'm not seeing the logic of the verge here now.

Let them be identical and everyone will be happy.

 

[Deleted member 43]

Essentially what it being proposed is that MS is intentionally making life harder for their partners in an attempt to trick Sony over some bullshit.

I don't think so little of MS to see that as a possibility.

 

[bsigg]

So using this same logic, who's to say the PS5 kits are final? If he wants to play the "surprise Sony" game with this cat & mouse logic it can be applied both ways.

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Wouldn't fully designed units like what was pictured indicate they're getting close/are pretty much there? Why would you manufacture something like that if you intend on making it obsolete in a few months?

 

[Dust]

I thought everybody said it was the same shit basically?
MS bumping would put their console at higher price and we are already probably looking at $449-499 PS5.
$599 Xbox?

 

[Deleted member 721]

wouldnt that suck for third parties? since they will have a smaller window to port to scarlett on the release date?

 

[DixieDean82]

Launching a year late against Sony is suicide no matter how powerful the hardware is. N64 and the OG Xbox found this out the hard way.

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They're going to get doubled either way.

 

[tomwarren]

Tom's probably like:

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Feic, arse, drink. Yes.

 

[sleepr]

Wouldn't fully designed units like what was pictured indicate they're getting close/are pretty much there? Why would you manufacture something like that if you intend on making it obsolete in a few months?

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Judging by how that went with PS4, no. Devs got final devkits a couple of months before the launch of the console.

 

[christocolus]

Tom's probably like:

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Feic, arse, drink. Yes.

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Lol. Too late. Impatiently waiting for the reveal now.

 

[bsigg]

wouldnt that suck for third parties? since they will have a smaller window to port to scarlett on the release date?

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It doesn't mean they're not working with target spec PC units.

 

[tapedeck]

So I take it I am not allowed to take this as good news for Scarlett?

 

[Black_Stride]

wouldnt that suck for third parties? since they will have a smaller window to port to scarlett on the release date?

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Both machines are effectively off the shelf PC parts.
Port jobs arent going to take very long as long as devs arent planning these things to have 2080Tis and R9 3950s inside.

We can assume the chips are Zen2 8/16 underclocked.

Devs could have already started with target hardware....only for MS or Sony to tell them down the line ohh remember we said we have xxxxflops available.....well we actually xxxx+1 flops available.
No one in the launch window will change much, but down the line the extra power will make sense.

Is this what MS/Sony are doing....I doubt it....but im guessing thats what these tweets are trying to imply.


MS/Sony employees looking at this thread thinking "What the fuck are these nerds on about"?

 

[TooBusyLookinGud]

"Microsoft wants to surprise Sony this time"

That... this entire supposed timeframe is not how software engineering, OS engineering, or APU engineering works.

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As a software engineer that has worked on 10+ APUs, I disagree - at least for my company.

Unit testing is essential for developing software and being that this is being mostly developed in house, I am sure that they have a wide array of unit testing environments set up. It's easy to design software for unreleased APU specs if you can simulate/emulate the environment - which we do as well as most tech companies.

We often design software for scalability before a product is released. Scalability for end users and well as hardware. If you are not designing your software with this in mind then you are setting yourself up for failure - this is a basic SWE principles IMO.

As far as OS's, they have been designing OSs based on scalability and functionality for many many years. I am sure they have this part down, same would go for Sony. I have worked very closely with MS and as far as preparing software for predefined or undefined specs, they are pretty damn good at that.

 

[Cactuar]

Wouldn't fully designed units like what was pictured indicate they're getting close/are pretty much there? Why would you manufacture something like that if you intend on making it obsolete in a few months?

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Firstly they're not getting close they are close, if not already there, and despite what you might believe so is Microsoft. The systems are less than one year from launch, the 'closeness' is not in question. What he's implying and just said is that not all specs matter, thus Microsoft could be holding back specs to "surprise Sony." Under the same logic, I can make the argument that Sony is also holding back the 'specs that don't matter' to 'surprise Microsoft.' It's a circular arguement.

 

[DieH@rd]

wouldnt that suck for third parties? since they will have a smaller window to port to scarlett on the release date?

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Third parties got proper Xbox One devkits just few months before console launched. Even if Scarlet devkits got distributed in Q1/early Q2 of 2020, all will be fine. Devs are now fully on-board modern development, there will be no hard switch like last time from Power to X86 [and ESRAM size bottleneck, DX11, etc].

I'm more surprised that Sony gave away so many devkits so early.

 

[Manmademan]

They're going to get doubled either way.

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They're getting worse than doubled *right now*.

Launching a year late will end the brand.

 

[jelly]

Isn't the X more than competitive? It didn't seem to help one bit.

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Perception counts for something. Microsoft look competent before next gen, hardware is fantastic, gamepass, new studios, new IP etc. It's changing the narrative long before people decide to buy next gen and they succeded to varying degrees. Xbox is on the up going into next gen whereas 360 was going down, PS3 was going up and Playstation continued that with the PS4 and whereas the Xbox One, oh dear, continuing downwards that the 360 started. Now you can look at Microsoft and think yeah, they'll have great hardware, games are getting better, although E3 will be key, that's night and day to what they were. The S and the X along with gamepass, new studios is building a foundation that they needed to do because nobody would take them seriously if they were still acting like original Xbox One days, they needed to do all that before next gen.

 

[Deleted member 43]

Third parties got proper Xbox One devkits just few months before console launched. Even if Scarlet devkits got distributed in Q1/early Q2 of 2020, all will be fine. Devs are now fully on-board modern development, there will be no hard switch like last time from Power to X86 [and ESRAM size bottleneck, DX11, etc].

I'm more surprised that Sony gave away so many devkits so early.

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That's not really the issue. In order for this to be 4D chess, MS would have to be actively lying to partners.

 

[bsigg]

Firstly they're not getting close they are close, if not already there, and despite what you might believe so is Microsoft. The systems are less than one year from launch, the 'closeness' is not in question. What he's implying and just said is that not all specs matter, thus Microsoft could be holding back specs to "surprise Sony." Under the same logic, I can make the argument that Sony is also holding back the 'specs that don't matter' to 'surprise Microsoft.' It's a circular arguement.

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Did he do something to your dog? Why are you so defensive about this lol

 

[tomwarren]

As a software engineer that has worked on 10+ APUs, I disagree - at least for my company.

Unit testing is essential for developing software and being that this is being mostly developed in house, I am sure that they have a wide array of unit testing environments set up. It's easy to design software for unreleased APU specs if you can simulate the environment - which we do as well as most tech companies.

We often design software for scalability before a product is released. Scalability for end users and well as hardware. If you are not designing your software with this in mind then you are setting yourself up for failure - this is a basic SWE principles.

As far as OS's, they have been designing OSs based on scalability and functionality for many many years. I am sure they have this part down, same would go for Sony. I have worked very closely with MS and as far as preparing software for predefined or undefined specs, they are pretty damn good at that.

Click to shrink...

Indeed. You can surprise with software, APIs, and more. It's also no secret that Microsoft has been working very closely with AMD on lots more than just Xbox. Look at Surface Laptop 3, and beyond.

 

[Haint]

"surprise Sony"... seriously?

Does it really work like that? I'd think that the earlier a dev has a dev kit for new hardware in their hands, the better chance at good, high-quality games on launch

you are going to "hide" the dev kit from devs just so Sony doesn't learn about its innards??

dunno,

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Of course not. The APU's are both made by AMD, almost assuredly by the same engineering team (AMD is woefully understaffed and underfunded relative to their competitors). There is no way either party is keeping anything a secret. Sony and MS likely both have transcripts of every meeting, discussion and email the opposing party has ever exchanged with AMD relating to their console. The idea that you can have 100+ of the same people working on 2 "top secret" projects concurrently and not have "mole's" spilling to friends/family or just straight up selling it is hilariously naive.

 

[christocolus]

Did he do something to your dog? Why are you so defensive about this lol

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Lol.

Indeed. You can surprise with software, APIs, and more. It's also no secret that Microsoft has been working very closely with AMD on lots more than just Xbox. Look at Surface Laptop 3, and beyond.

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Interesting.

 

[B.C.]

Xbox got em shook! This thread is hilarious. Lol

 

[Deleted member 61469]

I believe in Panos

 

[Kiekura]

Yeah no.