Tom King disappointed with DC hiring Comicsgate artist (UPDATE: Artist originally unaware of and doesn't support Comicsgate. See threadmarks)

[kmfdmpig]

Who's trying to protect Comicsgate?

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If we tut tut the person raising an alarm about not wanting to work with someone who works with CG rather than critique the person working with them then we might as well be saying that it's fine to work with comicsgate.
When it comes to politics people rightfully call out the "we need to be polite and show decorum to those with hideous beliefs", but in this case King's tweet, which literally just laid out the truth without stating that Lee was a member of CG is getting more flak than Lee is for supporting CG.

 

[RocketKiss]

Tom King propagated and profited from the murderous hate group called the CIA. You can't tell me he didn't know about its decades of abuses around the world and on American soil.

 

[Wafflinson]

Comics has been particularly shitty to women over the last several years with comicsgate being a big part of that. Comicsgate shouldn't be protected or given legitimacy to protect one creator who buries his head in the sand.

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Literally no one is doing this.

 

[kmfdmpig]

Literally no one is doing this.

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Then when someone makes a tweet, as King did, to raise awareness people should be saying either "oh Lee did something awful" or "oh, Lee unknowingly did something awful" rather than "King should have kept this quiet for the sake of decorum".

 

[Weiss]

If we tut tut the person raising an alarm about not wanting to work with someone who works with CG rather than critique the person working with them then we might as well be saying that it's fine to work with comicsgate.
When it comes to politics people rightfully call out the "we need to be polite and show decorum to those with hideous beliefs", but in this case King's tweet, which literally just laid out the truth without stating that Lee was a member of CG is getting more flak than Lee is for supporting CG.

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Tom King's getting flack for the way he went about it. That's not "tut tutting" that's holding someone to a basic standard of decency before they accuse someone of being a member of a hate group and then walking it back with no shame.

Then when someone makes a tweet, as King did, to raise awareness people should be saying either "oh Lee did something awful" or "oh, Lee unknowingly did something awful" rather than "King should have kept this quiet for the sake of decorum".

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This only happened after King had to backtrack.

 

[Dongs Macabre]

Van Sciver is the fucking poster child for comicsgate and Cyberfrog is well known to be part of that "movement".

Comics has been particularly shitty to women over the last several years with comicsgate being a big part of that. Comicsgate shouldn't be protected or given legitimacy to protect one creator who buries his head in the sand.

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No one is legitimizing Comicsgate. I think Lee's comment betrayed his ignorance on the subject, but he does not claim to stand for Comicsgate. Let me ask you again: are minority lives disposable in a white man's quest for justice?

 

[kmfdmpig]

Tom King's getting flack for the way he went about it. That's not "tut tutting" that's holding someone to a basic standard of decency before they accuse someone of being a member of a hate group and then walking it back with no shame.



This only happened after King had to backtrack.

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Read his Tweet. He never said Lee was a member. He said Lee did covers for CG, which is a hate group. What he said was 100% correct.

No one is legitimizing Comicsgate. I think Lee's comment betrayed his ignorance on the subject, but he does not claim to stand for Comicsgate. Let me ask you again: are minority lives disposable in a white man's quest for justice?

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That's a very specific way of framing the question.
Are women's lives disposable because one minority man's willful ignorance provides a shield for CG?

 

[Weiss]

Read his Tweet. He never said Lee was a member. He said Lee did covers for CG, which is a hate group. What he said was 100% correct.



That's a very specific way of framing the question.
Are women's lives disposable because one minority man's willful ignorance provides a shield for CG?

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If all he meant to say was "I have a problem that you did covers for comicsgate" why the hell did he have to run it back so hard?

 

[ghostmind]

Read his Tweet. He never said Lee was a member. He said Lee did covers for CG, which is a hate group. What he said was 100% correct.



That's a very specific way of framing the question.
Are women's lives disposable because one minority man's willful ignorance provides a shield for CG?

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So fuck Jae Lee right? seriously, wtf is wrong with you?

 

[Dongs Macabre]

Read his Tweet. He never said Lee was a member. He said Lee did covers for CG, which is a hate group. What he said was 100% correct.



That's a very specific way of framing the question.
Are women's lives disposable because one minority man's willful ignorance provides a shield for CG?

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No, but please explain how saying he is not part of Comicsgate amounts to providing a shield for them.

 

[ZeoVGM]

You never updated your op. Get it together, man lol. It's your thread.

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I can't tell if this is a joke or not.

 

[kmfdmpig]

So fuck Jae Lee right? seriously, wtf is wrong with you?

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So it's OK to work with CG, right? wtf is wrong with you? See how that works?
If you believe someone who goes to a dozen or so cons a year is totally unaware of CG, which is something that all comics insiders talk about all the time then that's fine. I think he's either aware and doesn't particularly care or he didn't due the bare minimum someone could expect when it comes to due diligence regarding who he's working with.

 

[ghostmind]

So it's OK to work with CG, right? wtf is wrong with you? See how that works?
If you believe someone who goes to a dozen or so cons a year is totally unaware of CG, which is something that all comics insiders talk about all the time then that's fine. I think he's either aware and doesn't particularly care or he didn't due the bare minimum someone could expect when it comes to due diligence regarding who he's working with.

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what you don't seem to understand is that some people exist that don't want to be part of your shitty judgmental world.

 

[RocketKiss]

Why do we like Mr. King now? Because he made a comic you like? Does that absolve him of willfully joining the CIA, an actual murderous hate group that has dismantled human rights and leftist movements for decades?
See, this works both ways. Do not say 'that was in the past so it is irrelevant.' It ain't by your standards.

 

[kmfdmpig]

No, but please explain how saying he is not part of Comicsgate amounts to providing a shield for them.

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Are you saying that a creator should be OK with having an alternate cover done by a CG aligned creator (aligned either through choice or utter ignorance, but aligned nonetheless)? If not then why should Lee being a minority mean that King should be OK with sharing a book with someone that does so?

 

[Dongs Macabre]

Are you saying that a creator should be OK with having an alternate cover done by a CG aligned creator (aligned either through choice or utter ignorance, but aligned nonetheless)? If not then why should Lee being a minority mean that he should be OK with sharing a book with someone that does so?

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Tom King was absolutely right in objecting. But do you know what he could have done instead of the public callout he has not yet deleted? Sent a fucking email to clarify.

 

[Wafflinson]

Then when someone makes a tweet, as King did, to raise awareness people should be saying either "oh Lee did something awful" or "oh, Lee unknowingly did something awful" rather than "King should have kept this quiet for the sake of decorum".

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The problem is that you are placing an expectation of calm rationality on one side of the reaction spectrum and not the other.

I agree with your basic premise. This thread should have been about "oh Lee did something awful" or "oh, Lee unknowingly did something awful". We both know that was never on the table though.

If the retraction hadn't been posted so quickly this thread would have been 100% bloodlust, attacks, and anger and that behavior would have been applauded. You know it. The OP knows it. I know it. There would have been NO "oh, Lee unknowingly did something awful".

So even in that scenario your expectation of what this thread should have contained would NEVER have come to pass. For some of us, because we know exactly what the reaction is going to be, we would prefer that people such as King use much more caution before posting things like this. Or, at the very least state that he doesn't personally know if the artist supports Comicgate when posting the connection.

 

[Runwhiteboyrun]

Fuck Tom King for trying to call someone out publicly without having all the facts.

Fuck a lot of posters in this thread that think they know how what all comic pros are aware of at any one time and be judgmental fucks for it.

 

[Ishmael]

I can understand why any pro would not want to interact with comic book culture. Who would want to deal with these nonsensical accusations?

 

[RocketKiss]

The Iraq War also happened when people brought out the pitchforks too soon.

 

[Palette Swap]

At least, next time someone does a cover for these vile shitstains, it will be hard to say they didn't know about it, given how this has blown over way beyond twitter.

 

[admiraltaftbar]

At least, next time someone does a cover for these vile shitstains, it will be hard to say they didn't know about it, given how this has blown over way beyond twitter.

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You would think that but it keeps happening and professionals keep claiming they didn't know when they decided to take the job and make that CG money.

 

[dodo]

probably not the first botched coup attempt king's been involved with

 

[Doc Holliday]

an ex CIA officer calling another person out for being involved with a questionable group is pretty fucking funny.

 

[Nawid]

an ex CIA officer calling another person out for being involved with a questionable group is pretty fucking funny.

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Especially when one of his frequent collaborators actually does seem to be a ComicsGate dude (Mitch Gerads).

 

[Wafflinson]

At least, next time someone does a cover for these vile shitstains, it will be hard to say they didn't know about it, given how this has blown over way beyond twitter.

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Yeah no. This is still very much a twitter phenomenon. I have a bunch of comic book nerd friends and I would be shocked if more than one of them is even vaguely aware of this.

The internet community vastly overestimates its own reach constantly.

 

[Teenage Fansub]

Especially when one of his frequent collaborators actually does seem to be a ComicsGate dude (Mitch Gerads).

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Where's this coming from? The only fishy thing I know is him designing that Punisher skull Chris Kyle patch in 2015.

 

[Palette Swap]

Especially when one of his frequent collaborators actually does seem to be a ComicsGate dude (Mitch Gerads).

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Seeing his timeline and likes, I don't know where that's coming from. There was that drama where Ales Kot (rightfully) called him out like 5 years ago about that American Sniper guy ?

(lmao, I swear I'm not Teenage Fansub 's alt)

 

[Nawid]

Where's this coming from? The only fishy thing I know is him designing that Punisher skull Chris Kyle patch in 2015.

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I'm mixing him up with Lee Weeks, who had a similar controversy on Batman, my mistake, though the Punisher thing + how he draws black lips ain't great. But learnable stuff, so I'm going to say this one's on me.

 

[bluexy]

woof. a lot of people in this thread making light of a dude's work supporting and profiting from a hate movement. a lot of people grandstanding about the "correct" way to deal with a co-worker whose involvement in a hate movement could crater your reputation and career.

this isn't a misunderstanding with a friend. jae lee worked for a hate movement. A HATE MOVEMENT. and even now, after he's issued a statement, has shown no evidence of caring that he did that work or that he won't do it again. those comics are still being sold, still funding EVS who invests that money directly into harassment and spreading bigotry. that didn't stop because lee says "oh i don't check twitter." there has to be accountability here. responsibility taken.

hate movements and even tenuous support of them deserves to be taken more seriously.

 

[RocketKiss]

He's raking in millions and doing incalculable damage by accidentally drawing a cybernetic frog for an asshole while his dog was sick and dying. /s

 

[Runwhiteboyrun]

woof. a lot of people in this thread making light of a dude's work supporting and profiting from a hate movement. a lot of people grandstanding about the "correct" way to deal with a co-worker whose involvement in a hate movement could crater your reputation and career.

this isn't a misunderstanding with a friend. jae lee worked for a hate movement. A HATE MOVEMENT. and even now, after he's issued a statement, has shown no evidence of caring that he did that work or that he won't do it again. those comics are still being sold, still funding EVS who invests that money directly into harassment and spreading bigotry. that didn't stop because lee says "oh i don't check twitter." there has to be accountability here. responsibility taken.

hate movements and even tenuous support of them deserves to be taken more seriously.

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Aww keep that woof shit for yourself. Jae Lee did two covers for another artist he knew. He said did not sign on with ComicsGate, said he is not a part of them. Who the fuck are you to say that Lee knew what was happening with every little detail?

To quote another post:

Yeah no. This is still very much a twitter phenomenon. I have a bunch of comic book nerd friends and I would be shocked if more than one of them is even vaguely aware of this.

The internet community vastly overestimates its own reach constantly.

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Not a single person I know in real life has any clue what Comicsgate is, so stop assuming everyone is in the loop.

He's raking in millions and doing incalculable damage by accidentally drawing a cybernetic frog for an asshole while his dog was sick and dying.

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Raking in millions? Do you even know which artist you are talking about?

 

[RocketKiss]

Raking in millions? Do you even know which artist you are talking about?

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/s

 

[Wafflinson]

Not a single person I know in real life has any clue what Comicsgate is, so stop assuming everyone is in the loop.

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Ummm.... that is exactly what I just said?

 

[Runwhiteboyrun]

/s

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Yup I missed that tone for sure.

Ummm.... that is exactly what I just said?

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That is why I was quoting you, because I believe the same. Could've formatted it better.

 

[RocketKiss]

He's agreeing with you.

 

[Nawid]

woof. a lot of people in this thread making light of a dude's work supporting and profiting from a hate movement. a lot of people grandstanding about the "correct" way to deal with a co-worker whose involvement in a hate movement could crater your reputation and career.

this isn't a misunderstanding with a friend. jae lee worked for a hate movement. A HATE MOVEMENT. and even now, after he's issued a statement, has shown no evidence of caring that he did that work or that he won't do it again. those comics are still being sold, still funding EVS who invests that money directly into harassment and spreading bigotry. that didn't stop because lee says "oh i don't check twitter." there has to be accountability here. responsibility taken.

hate movements and even tenuous support of them deserves to be taken more seriously.

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Jae Lee didn't exactly invoice "Nazis" or even "ComicsGate". He's a dude who is not online, so how would he even know?

The guy paying him was a prominent DC artist before this. He just saw a paycheck.

 

[bluexy]

Aww keep that woof shit for yourself. Jae Lee did two covers for another artist he knew. He said did not sign on with ComicsGate, said he is not a part of them. Who the fuck are you to say that Lee knew what was happening with every little detail?

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Whether or not Lee knew what he was doing has absolutely no effect on how his work is helping directly fund extremism. That he apparently doesn't give a fuck, and worse thinks anti-extremism is the bigger enemy in this situation, only makes it worse.



good twitter threat from villalobos

 

[bluexy]

Jae Lee didn't exactly invoice "Nazis" or even "ComicsGate". He's a dude who is not online, so how would he even know?

The guy paying him was a prominent DC artist before this. He just saw a paycheck.

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this is a really gross false equivalence. an expectation that someone has to be a flag waving nazi before you take a hate movement seriously is insanity. EVS being able to say that all he's doing is making a comic about a robot frog is how he's able to get his hate movement legitimacy, but it doesn't make it any less of a hate movement.

and yes, to your point, that kind of strategy is absolutely going to get innocent people to fall into your trap. Lee is absolutely a victim in this circumstance, as well. but he also bears some responsibility in this. EVS is the piece of shit at the center and Lee owes it to himself and to his fans to be actively and vocal in rejecting that hate creed and denouncing the work he did for him.

 

[Runwhiteboyrun]

Whether or not Lee knew what he was doing has absolutely no effect on how his work is helping directly fund extremism. That he apparently doesn't give a fuck, and worse thinks anti-extremism is the bigger enemy in this situation, only makes it worse.

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So the man who may or MAY NOT (by his own words) know what the fuck the issue is should get shit on, have future work imperiled, and confronted publicly before every spoken to privately deserves all this shit? If my beloved pet died and you get blindsided as supporting bigots you can be damned assured that I wouldn't give a fuck about comics drama that I wasn't aware of. Glad you have figured out he is guilty of all charges.

Side note: Fuck Comicsgate, fuck bigots bottom line. But jumping to guilty conclusions with ignorance is garbage.

 

[Deleted member 25606]

Regardless of how you feel about this particular incident handwaving CG away as a twitter thing is pretty ignorant. Anyone who knows anything of the actual industry (not just social media, actual creators) know about this shit, it's an actual reactionary hate group not a hashtag.

And unlike gamergate both the genre's of horror and sci-fi in written fiction (remember the whole Hugo award thing?) and comics have rejected these movements and being associated with people like EVS (or Vox Day in the other example) is a quick way to shut yourself out of the industry since they represent nothing but these movements and any money they make goes back into it.

But yeah, pretend it's just Twitter and keep caping for clowns, we see you.

 

[Christian]

To RocketKiss
All my love,
Tom King

 

[bluexy]

So the man who may or MAY NOT (by his own words) know what the fuck the issue is should get shit on, have future work imperiled, and confronted publicly before every spoken to privately deserves all this shit? If my beloved pet died you can be damned assured that I wouldn't give a fuck about comics drama that I wasn't aware of. Glad you have figured out he is guilty of all charges.

Side note: Fuck Comicsgate, fuck bigots bottom line. But jumping to guilty conclusions with ignorance is garbage.

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Clearly, Jae Lee hasn't earned instant exile or ostracization status yet. But 100 fucking percent he is on notice that he has to do more than just tell Tom King off and handwave the accusations against him. This shit's serious. And that has to be a threat to anyone that does work for a hate movement, absolutely.

Like I said before, we don't live in a world where every passionate member of a hate movement is a flag-waving Nazi. Most actual supporters hide their fervor. The tests we have for these sorts of things aren't difficult to pass -- don't work with clear bigots; and barring that, publically make clear your viewpoints, because decrying bigotry is the easiest fucking in the world.

 

[BWoog]

If I found out I accidentally did work for a hate group, I would donate the money to charity that I made and not yell about "BOTH SIDES!!!" but that's me.

 

[Runwhiteboyrun]

Clearly, Jae Lee hasn't earned instant exile or ostracization status yet. But 100 fucking percent he is on notice that he has to do more than just tell Tom King off and handwave the accusations against him. That has to be a threat to anyone that does work for a hate movement, absolutely.

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If Jae Lee ever says a damn thing about supporting CG knowingly I will buy a ticket to a con and bitchslap him myself happily. If he doesn't feel the need to put out another statement regarding this, more power to him.

Until anyone at all can provide proof that he knew otherwise, I'm done here.

If I found out I accidentally did work for a hate group, I would donate the money to charity that I made and not yell about "BOTH SIDES!!!" but that's me.

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How did Lee both sides this?

 

[Nawid]

this is a really gross false equivalence. an expectation that someone has to be a flag waving nazi before you take a hate movement seriously is insanity. EVS being able to say that all he's doing is making a comic about a robot frog is how he's able to get his hate movement legitimacy, but it doesn't make it any less of a hate movement.

and yes, to your point, that kind of strategy is absolutely going to get innocent people to fall into your trap. Lee is absolutely a victim in this circumstance, as well. but he also bears some responsibility in this. EVS is the piece of shit at the center and Lee owes it to himself and to his fans to be actively and vocal in rejecting that hate creed and denouncing the work he did for him.

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I think Lee has a right to his privacy. I saw he put a IG post up but that seems to be even managed by his wife as well. His email is a fucking AOL one for chrissakes.

Maybe he doesn't want to apologize to people who are attacking him out of nowhere?

Edit:
And also, again, this is started by a dude who worked for the fucking CIA in Iraq.


I'm going to follow up with my own EVS experience. I went to my first Wondercon and he was there, maybe in 2009? He was doing Flash Rebirth and I liked his art so I went up to his booth in Artist Alley. He was nice and I bought a sketchbook from him. But soon afterwards (way prior to Comicsgate), I learned how much of a prick he was. And when CG popped up, I threw that sketchbook in the trash.

But if a large mass of people got aggressive and started threatening my livelihood at the time of my purchase, I don't think I would have reacted very well either.

 

[kmfdmpig]

If I found out I accidentally did work for a hate group, I would donate the money to charity that I made and not yell about "BOTH SIDES!!!" but that's me.

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Exactly. He wrote a 280 word Instagram post and couldn't have a single word denouncing CG or stating that he disagrees with them? Dynamite comics, which became a pariah publisher within the last few weeks due to its flirtation with CG would have loved to have had such a vigorous defense as many are giving Lee.

Maybe it's just me, but if my work accidentally supported a hate group and I found out I'd make it clear that I disagree with the group rather than whining about people being mean to me on the internet.

 

[RocketKiss]

Tom King, who directly or indirectly killed brown people, is the real ally though. Keep buying his comics.

 

[RSTEIN]

Not a single person I know in real life has any clue what Comicsgate is, so stop assuming everyone is in the loop

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I play games and read a lot of comics and I still don't know what comics gate or gamergate are lol

 

[Sandfox]

I like how Lee doesn't even acknowledge that he provided art for CG or publicly denounce the group in his statement.