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MistaTwo

SNK Gaming Division Studio 1
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
2,456
I'm not saying that Feige didn't help, but look at Venom, look at the Spiderverse movie, both made a ton of money and neither had Marvel involved. Spiderverse was a legit great movie as well.

Same goes with the Raimi Spidey movies, lots of people still think the first two are the best Spiderman movies out there.

Sony could have tapped some great writers and a director to helm new Spiderman movies and it could have been great, we'll never know. The Feige movies main benefit is that they can tie into the MCU and make use of other Marvel things both within themselves and then having Spidey join other charaters in their movies.

To me Disney had more to lose, not Sony. If Sony hired a good writer and director and the next Spidey movie did well with that they wouldn't have really lost anything by not having the deal, but Disney would have lost being able to finish his story in the MCU and his place that they are pushing him toward (The new Iron Man), which is a damn big role to fill, it would have left a fairly noticeable gap in the MCU and their movies stories to suddenly not have Spidey in them or mentioned anywhere. I mean you saw how many fans were vocal about the whole thing.





I thought it was Sony that walked away?

Also the fact that Spiderman is the most famous Marvel character of all time, dwarfing about any other hero when it comes to popularity.

It wouldn't have been uninterrupted at all, there'd be a fairly decent hole left with how they were taking his character in Far From Home and the role he's going toward, as I said above.

Maybe not give Sony 25% of merch but at least something to make it more of a fair deal.

I mean merch alone for Spidey is over 1 billion a year last I checked, that's a massive amount of money and Sony sees 0 of that.

They may have made a ton of money off Venom and Spiderverse, but their top grossing movie EVER as a studio is now Far From Home.

In most cases they have been incredibly inconsistent and their top grossing movies are thanks to the Spider-Man IP, which is always getting an unseen boost thanks to Marvel and Disney merchandising. How much Raimi Spider-Man merchandise have you actually seen in the wild? Normal 'comics' Spider-man on the other hand?

The idea that Sony should also get some piece of the merchandising revenue is just unhinged from reality. They have nothing to add there, which I don't think you can say in regards to Feige as producer on the films.
 

Cuburger

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,975
Except they do....Spider-Man himself, do you think Marvel/Disney doesn't care about the character? Like the entire reason this whole thing started int he first place was because Marvel (Kevin really) wanted Spidey in the Avengers movies, it wasn't Sony who went to them and said "Hey lets put Spidey in your movies."

After Far From Home it's obvious that Marvel has a story and they intended to keep using him for their movies.
Actually, Sony was the one who first approached Marvel about putting the Amazing Spider-Man Oscorp Tower in The Avengers, according to Joss Whedon:

I was like, 'And Spider-Man, we could [include him in Avengers 2 also], cause Sony had approached us during the first movie about a little integration. So I would have put both [Captain Marvel and Spider-Man] in, but neither of the deals were made. And then they were like, 'We're making a Captain Marvel movie and we've got Spider-Man as a property,' and I'm like, 'I've already locked my film, you fuckers! Thanks for nothing.'
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,384
Houston, TX
Like I said in the previous threads, Tom is in a pretty good position right now. This deal only goes up to the end of his existing contract (that being 2 more MCU films), so Tom's in a perfect position to leverage the renewal of his contract to ensure that Spider-Man stays in the MCU long-term. There's currently no room for Sony to do their own thing with Tom Holland without a new contract, so they'd at least have to consider extending their sharing arrangement with Marvel Studios.
 

Noppie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,770
I just hope all parties involved will use the coming years to negotiate a new contract again. These two movies are very much welcome, Tom's involvement is great, now don't ruin it again and give us a new multi-year multi-movie deal again.
 

CosmicGP

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,889
Not sure how much of this is reality or publicity, but very impressive of Holland to know how bad his third movie could end up being and then actively work to prevent that. On the other hand if Sony was perfectly content to tackle the third movie on their own.... well, it's perfectly understandable, but also perfectly understandable of most of us to expect that movie to turn out a mess.
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
i believe I fixed that for you.

Most reports state that Disney originally put forth a 50 percent co finance on Spider-Man 3. I believe this is the first article to say that Somy waited nearly 6 months to counter offer at 25%. That number has popped up as a counter offer in at least one other leak.
 
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Rosur

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,502
I hope he basically said he wouldn't play spider-man if not in the MCU as after 2 good spider-man films and 2 avenger films he's in a good spot I would say for Sony not wanting to replace so soon.
 

Watchtower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,654
I think this 2 movie deal is just to buy them more time to hash out a better, more long term contract for use of Spiderman in future movies. Which may or may not happen given how their last contract negotiations went.
I still think this deal being only 2 films is mainly to stay within the remainder of Tom Holland's existing contract.

It also, wittingly or not, gives Sony time to re-evaluate their current trajectory.

Because right now they're still high off the success of Venom. Morbius is slated for next year, and we should have some idea of Venom 2 before this third Spidey movie comes out. This new deal gives Sony time to see whether or not Venom's success will actually carry forward through the rest of this SUMC thing.
 

CaviarMeths

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,655
Western Canada
I mean the agreement was obviously due to money and being a mutually beneficial arrangement for both studios, but getting salty and cynical over some PR fluff is pretty silly.
 

Sense

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,551
Like I said in the previous threads, Tom is in a pretty good position right now. This deal only goes up to the end of his existing contract (that being 2 more MCU films), so Tom's in a perfect position to leverage the renewal of his contract to ensure that Spider-Man stays in the MCU long-term. There's currently no room for Sony to do their own thing with Tom Holland without a new contract, so they'd at least have to consider extending their sharing arrangement with Marvel Studios.
I don't think Sony is that stupid. This theory falls apart as soon as Tom Holland appears in Morbius or most likely venom 2 which is what Kevin feige statements strongly hints with his cinematic universe crossover comments.
 

macjester

Member
Dec 12, 2018
201
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thatsgoodthatsdamngood.jpg
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,384
Houston, TX
I don't think Sony is that stupid. This theory falls apart as soon as Tom Holland appears in Morbius or most likely venom 2 which is what Kevin feige statements strongly hints with his cinematic universe crossover comments.
As mentioned before, it's entirely possible that another contract was signed behind closed doors. But given his reaction to the news actually happening, I'm not sure that happened (yet). The only other way I could see it panning out for Sony is if they beat Marvel to the punch on that last movie on the contract.
 

Alastor3

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,297
So what im getting at : we got a thirs spiderman movie, a small role of spiderman in venom 2 and a role in the next Avenger, is that right?
 

Deleted member 17388

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,994
So what im getting at : we got a thirs spiderman movie, a small role of spiderman in venom 2 and a role in the next Avenger, is that right?
Right.

Third MCU Spider-Man film.
An Infinity War-like appearance of Tom Holland in another MCU project.

Meanwhile Sony is free to use Holland as Spider-Man in their non-canon films, like Venom 2 or even Morbius. Probably to co-star one with Tom Hardy.

I bet the MCU explanation will be multiverse, as soon as WandaVision / Doctor Strange 2 hits. Like, "those other films exist in parallel universes" stuff.
 
Oct 25, 2017
32,298
Atlanta GA
I bet the MCU explanation will be multiverse, as soon as WandaVision / Doctor Strange 2 hits. Like, "those other films exist in parallel universes" stuff.

The MCU doesn't ever have to acknowledge it.

If Feige never bothered to pay lip service to other Marvel TV products, there's no way in hell he's going to dedicate screen time to coming up with some explanation for Peter Parker appearing in another movie universe with characters that don't exist in the MCU. He simply can ignore them.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
Sony has my money if Tom's Spidey shows up in Vendon 2 now that he's also still in the MCU.
 

Extra Sauce

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,918
nothing against Tom Holland but "hero" is a strong word considering he stands to immensely benefit from this financially.
 

Hobbun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,396
Good for Tom, but I hope this doesn't become a 'once and done'. Isn't Holland signed on for four movies, total?
 

MadLaughter

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,099
Bob Iger seems to back up this story.


"We had an event called D-23 and Tom [Holland] was there because he's a voice in a new Pixar movie called Onward. He said something and it was clear that the fans wanted Tom back as Spiderman," Iger explained to the late-night host when asked how the actor proved to be the unsung hero.

Iger continued to explain that after Disney's D23 Expo, Holland asked for Iger's phone number and email to which Iger agreed to speak with him, which changed his perspective. "It was clear that he cared so much. He's a great Spider-Man. I felt for him and it was clear that the fans wanted all of this to happen."

Iger said that after speaking with Holland, he "made a couple of phone calls" before ultimately calling the head of Sony. "He called me and I called them," Iger said, also adding that "sometimes companies, when they are negotiating, they forget that there are other folks out there that actually matter."
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
You can say Spiderverse until you are blue in the face. But there doesn't seem to be any indication that Sony takes their success as a sign to bring them to the "real" movie table. Not even execs take animation seriously. Did anyone from the verse films get signed up for a live action film yet?

Sony signed Lord and Miller to a massive contract because of Spiderverse (along with CWACOM, 21 Jump Street etc). The deal allows and intends for them to produce SMCU, Spiderverse, and original content in both animated and Live Action through Sony Pictures TV. Specifically it has been indicated that the live action stuff will be a part of the Venomverse/SMCU. Given that Amy Pascal is also a part of that deal, and Pascal Pictures directly produces MCU Spider-Man, Spiderverss, etc, thƩ situation can reasonably be expected to rope them into the film side once things get going. The
Venom was just audiences thinking they were watching an MCU film because Venom and Spider-Man are so closely related.

ThƩ only way you can say that was the reason is if you don't know about Venoms box office run. That's not an insult, it's just simply not why the film succeeded.

They may have made a ton of money off Venom and Spiderverse, but their top grossing movie EVER as a studio is now Far From Home.

In most cases they have been incredibly inconsistent and their top grossing movies are thanks to the Spider-Man IP, which is always getting an unseen boost thanks to Marvel and Disney merchandising. How much Raimi Spider-Man merchandise have you actually seen in the wild? Normal 'comics' Spider-man on the other hand?

The idea that Sony should also get some piece of the merchandising revenue is just unhinged from reality. They have nothing to add there, which I don't think you can say in regards to Feige as producer on the films.

Wait you seriously don't believe that Spider-verse, MCU Spidey, Riami Era, merchandising was or is not currently being sold? How about creative initiatives from within Sony that filter back into the comics such as Spider-verses' influence, PS4 Spider-Man appearing and getting comics.

There's a lot of cross pollination.
 

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,663
Costa Rica

Qikz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,492
Tom is the real hero here. I know this is blind corporate loyalty but the Marvel films have been fun excursions in this otherwise current shitty set of rotations around the planets axis and they make me happy watching them, so more with especially Tom's spiderman who has given me a lot of joy is great.
 

MistaTwo

SNK Gaming Division Studio 1
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
2,456
Wait you seriously don't believe that Spider-verse, MCU Spidey, Riami Era, merchandising was or is not currently being sold? How about creative initiatives from within Sony that filter back into the comics such as Spider-verses' influence, PS4 Spider-Man appearing and getting comics.

There's a lot of cross pollination.

There is cross pollination, but I feel like 90% of the merch and products I see are more 'generic' spidey for lack of a better term.
Lots of stuff based on the Disney animation shows especially. And I have kids who love spider-man and actively look for this stuff as well.

There is obviously going to be some merch to go along with theatrical runs (I have a Homecoming Spider-man figure sitting on my desk lol),
but it is dwarfed by the rest of the spider-man merchandise that is sold 365 days a year non-stop.

I am also not an expert on these types of deals, but I am guessing that any merch that is explicitly from Sony endeavors probably does result in them getting a piece of the revenue as they still own the IP in that case and Disney/Marvel are just helping with the production.

The post I was quoting made it sound like they were expecting Disney to give up a portion of ALL their merch revenue to Sony, and I just don't see how that could be justified.
 

Deleted member 17388

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,994
It exists and is cannon. The only question is will there be an in universe explanation from within the MCU for how it happens or not.
I mean... Venom and all will be canon to the MCU as those Mexican Spider-Man comics where Peter married Gwen Stacy instead are to the 616, or as Battle Fever J is to the comics multiverse; as in a Wikia footnote tops.

However, I think it will be slightly addressed as "in another universe" in interviews once the usual rumors from production start to pour from the Sony-side. The "Oscorp will appear on the Avengers skyline"/"Holland was seen on the Venom set"-type, and the purposely Rothman/Pascal double speaking.
 

jon bones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,027
NYC
Remarkable story, and the best possible outcome.

Holland digging deep and making it happen, Feige explicitly stating Sony can make their movies in another universe while he makes proper Spidey movies. Real heroes.