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SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,474

This is...a take. I think Gaim is like...Top 5 for me? Blade, Build, Gaim, Agito, Kuuga.

Yeah, I miss the days of having two Riders max within a show.

This puts pressure on the show to be good. If there's multiple Riders then even if the show's bad the character interaction and fights can entertain. If you've got 2 or 1 max then if the show's bad it's boring and that's the worst thing a show can be.
 

MHWilliams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,473
This puts pressure on the show to be good. If there's multiple Riders then even if the show's bad the character interaction and fights can entertain. If you've got 2 or 1 max then if the show's bad it's boring and that's the worst thing a show can be.

Yes, with 1-2 Riders, you need those folks to carry the show.

1-10? You set up some interesting archetypes and you can spend 40 episodes just banging them against each other.

Like seeing Horobi handling Thouser is an illustration. It was completely different from how Aruto or Fuwa tried to do the same, without any power-up. And perfectly in character.
 

Slatsunus

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,215
This is...a take. I think Gaim is like...Top 5 for me? Blade, Build, Gaim, Agito, Kuuga.



This puts pressure on the show to be good. If there's multiple Riders then even if the show's bad the character interaction and fights can entertain. If you've got 2 or 1 max then if the show's bad it's boring and that's the worst thing a show can be.
Kuuga flexing on everyone by being better then all of them while only having one rider.

But then I think Kuuga's the best toku ever anyway. And would never get made today.
 

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,474
Yes, with 1-2 Riders, you need those folks to carry the show.

1-10? You set up some interesting archetypes and you can spend 40 episodes just banging them against each other.

Like seeing Horobi handling Thouser is an illustration. It was completely different from how Aruto or Fuwa tried to do the same, without any power-up. And perfectly in character.

Yup. And while it's one thing to say "just make sure it's good", these things come out yearly. Gotta plan around that.
 

MHWilliams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,473
Kuuga flexing on everyone by being better then all of them while only having one rider.

But then I think Kuuga's the best toku ever anyway. And would never get made today.

I admit, in the Kuuga rewatch, my partner tapped out a bit. First, because in some episodes she felt Godai didn't do anything in an emotional, character vein, like he's just there to service the story.

Second, a lot of people die in Kuuga and once you get to the mid-point, it really feels odd that so many are living completely normal lives day-to-day.

But hey, COVID, so maybe that's real life!
 

ash32121

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,565
This is...a take. I think Gaim is like...Top 5 for me? Blade, Build, Gaim, Agito, Kuuga.



This puts pressure on the show to be good. If there's multiple Riders then even if the show's bad the character interaction and fights can entertain. If you've got 2 or 1 max then if the show's bad it's boring and that's the worst thing a show can be.
This is a good point, the last shows they have 2 or 3 rider and still good was Fourze, even Drive was kinda meh.
Kuuga flexing on everyone by being better then all of them while only having one rider.

But then I think Kuuga's the best toku ever anyway. And would never get made today.
Kuuga is very good, but for some reason, I find it dull as hell. I have to try 3 times to get through Kuuga. I think it's the color of the show, because I sit through Agito just fine and it's a worse Kuuga.
 

Slatsunus

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,215
I admit, in the Kuuga rewatch, my partner tapped out a bit. First, because in some episodes she felt Godai didn't do anything in an emotional, character vein, like he's just there to service the story.

Second, a lot of people die in Kuuga and once you get to the mid-point, it really feels odd that so many are living completely normal lives day-to-day.

But hey, COVID, so maybe that's real life!
Covid has def made lots of stories with people acting dumb during serious situations far more believable, lol. But Kuuga is still easily the most realistic Toku of all time. The amount of work Kuuga, the Police, and his friends put in just trying to save normal people from a race of serial killers is something you never get in a modern show. When was the last time police mattered in KR? Or Civilian casualties?

I was re-watching it during Zero One's competition arc and the contrast between the amount of work done in Kuuga done to identify Grongi vs Gai just walking up to a Humagear in broad daylight in front of cameras to hack it and turn it evil and then nobody even saying anything about it was so strong it snapped my neck.
 

MHWilliams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,473
The amount of work Kuuga, the Police, and his friends put in just trying to save normal people from a race of serial killers is something you never get in a modern show. When was the last time police mattered in KR? Or Civilian casualties?

I was re-watching it during Zero One's competition arc and the contrast between the amount of work done in Kuuga done to identify Grongi vs Gai just walking up to a Humagear in broad daylight in front of cameras to hack it and turn it evil and then nobody even saying anything about it was so strong it snapped my neck.
LOL. Quite true.
 

Sou Da

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,738
I completely forgot Kamen Ride Accel was a thing. Everyone was talking about Rider numbers and I genuinely thought W, my favorite series only had 1.
 

Orayn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,973
Yes, with 1-2 Riders, you need those folks to carry the show.

1-10? You set up some interesting archetypes and you can spend 40 episodes just banging them against each other.

Like seeing Horobi handling Thouser is an illustration. It was completely different from how Aruto or Fuwa tried to do the same, without any power-up. And perfectly in character.
Thinking back on Ghost, having a few more evil, neutral-ish, or renegade riders kicking around might have saved that show.
 

NeonZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,377
Thinking back on Ghost, having a few more evil, neutral-ish, or renegade riders kicking around might have saved that show.
Yeah, a big part of the issue of the show is that once Adel takes over basically everything grinds to a halt. Ganma conspiracies stop but the invasion doesn't go anywhere until the final three episodes when the Ganmizer betray him.
 

Vareon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,844
Kuuga's realistic take can't easily be reproduced somewhere else or most shows will feel same-ey like Kuuga and Agito. (it also has nice and competent policemen so I don't know about realistic lol)

I appreciate some other shows waiving some consequences of there being a group of monsters who frequently attacked people and a superhero who goes around for the sake of storytelling, but yeah some really tested your suspension of disbelief. Like how nobody had any opinion about Amatsu Gai until the story wants it.

Kuuga also didn't use stock locations much, which is in contrast with Saber's trailer where everything was filmed on Toei's backlot.
 

Orayn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,973
Yeah, a big part of the issue of the show is that once Adel takes over basically everything grinds to a halt. Ganma conspiracies stop but the invasion doesn't go anywhere until the final three episodes when the Ganmizer betray him.
It's a bummer because the first half of the show ALMOST hangs together and Alain's arc is great. There just wasn't enough quality story to fill the full number of episodes.
 

MHWilliams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,473
My honest truth with Kuuga is it was great for it's time, but something like that nowadays, I'd want it to go Garo dark, without all the exposed boobs.

Thinking back on Ghost, having a few more evil, neutral-ish, or renegade riders kicking around might have saved that show.

Explains why the Ghost writer is starting with like 7 Riders.
 
Nah it's more of a "Shotaro and Philippe are already the primary and secondary Riders with a strong relationship that doesn't have room for someone like Accel" thing.
It probably doesn't help that Accel came off as a very lousy and stubborn character in his intro. He eventually gets really cool but boy that arc where he harasses that mother and her kid was rough.
 

Sou Da

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,738
W and Build were the last two Rider shows with a great sense of place also, W especially. We don't really see a lot of memorable civilians.
 

Orayn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,973
The format of Build, Zero-One, and certain portions of Gaim, Drive, and Ex-Aid where you have 2-4 each of good and evil riders (or rider equivalents) active at any given time is a keeper. Makes it into more of a well balanced superhero action-drama as opposed to the old tradition of one or two costumed heroes beating up a monster every week where you need to do that incredibly well or the whole thing will fall apart.

Come to think of it, Ryuki was mostly like that too. You always had the main pair of Shinji and Ren, with a rotating cast of allies and enemies that included Kitaoka as a wildcard.
 

ash32121

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,565
Nah it's more of a "Shotaro and Philippe are already the primary and secondary Riders with a strong relationship that doesn't have room for someone like Accel" thing.
I would argue the second rider is Nasca, dude was so cool, after his death, Accel has no chance.

Edit: Tbh, I dread the multi-rider format mostly because I'm a completionist, and it's a god damn pain to try and complete a shelf when your series have like 8 riders, the last time I complete collecting for a series was back in god damn OOO.
 

Wanderer5

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,987
Somewhere.
Definitely enjoy the multiple riders route, and how much more they can do with them.

Actually liked how spread out the riders were coming in Build, including Ryuga not even becoming Cross-Z until episode 11.
 

Sou Da

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,738
You know if you really look at all of them Dragon Knight was one of the better Neo Hesei Kamen Riders.
 
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Orayn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,973
You know if you really look at all of them Dragon Knight was one of the better Neo Hesei Kamen Riders.

can't wait for the @s to this
Troll post, mods, please remove

For real, I get people being annoyed at the "neo" terminology, but Phase 2 really is a distinct and deliberate change for the series, though you can see elements of it starting in Den-O and Kiva with the somewhat lighter tone and different approach to Riders' forms and gimmicks.
 

Slatsunus

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,215
You know if you really look at all of them Dragon Knight was one of the better Neo Hesei Kamen Riders.

can't wait for the @s to this
Dragon Knight still has the best female rider lmao.

Siren kicks the shit out of every single Japanese made female rider. Hell Siren ends up in a substitutes hands for awhile and she does more as a rider then most of them.

The bar is so low and yet DK stand supreme over a decade later. It should be embarrassing for Toei
 

Sou Da

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,738
Still shaking with laughter at this revelation of female riders, I also remember that Dragon Knight won an emmy.
 

Sou Da

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,738
For it's action scenes yes.

Something Siren got a lot of:

The first response,

E1FCPYY.png


It never ends lmao
 

ash32121

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,565
People already forget Yaiba I see.
Edit: not that she is better than Siren, just that she should be the next bar.
 

Slatsunus

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,215
People already forget Yaiba I see.
There isnt much to forget in the first place sadly. She had a strong intro and then was categorically wasted. The only way she could have been done dirtier is if they killed her out right.

And just wait, when V Cinema's come it'll be Horobi or Jin who get one not her.
 

ash32121

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,565
She henshined like twice.


She was billed as the third Rider, then got a single alternate form and spent a third of the show a toadie to the bad guy for no apparent reason.

Crushing disappointment.
Sadly that's like the bar to beat for JP kamen rider lol

She is still better than Marrika, honestly another waste character, Mage, Poppy, what's her name in Hibiki and Kivaraa.
 

Vareon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,844
Tsukuyomi had a really cool cliffhanger to her... and she did like one attack in the next episode. Kamen Rider need some female voice because god damn I want to see female Riders kicking ass. This shouldn't be hard since Precure did it every week.
 

ValKiryuSonicEX

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,260
The whole Tsukuyomi thing in Zi-O ticked me off, like none of the previous female riders show up at all and now we have her...only to die not long after. Fuck.
Oh you mean the original one? Kase. The actual one was Maya

Eh, right Kase...I guess that's more than the other riders on that show, Maya was also really dumb, ugh...I just can't.