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TokuERA 2020/2021 |OT| Masks Required
- Thread starter DioMuller
- Start date
- Entertainment OT
The main thing I wanted from KR week from a domestic standpoint was more p-bandai Kamen Rider stuff coming over.
I thought they had said the Satan Saber was coming out here but I don't see it on US P-bandai. I wonder if BBTS and the like (who do have preorders) are going to import it.
They're teasing Heisei week 2 for the Summer... maybe by then we'll see more things.
The Satan Saber is available on a few partner websites like eknightmedia (I know I saw it on here for $140 shipped iirc), tokullectibles (normally gets everything but I haven't looked to see if it's there) and maybe some others, they were plugging them all week during the live streams and it won't be on P Bandai.
Oh, interesting, so Bluefin is bringing it over but as a "normal" release through partners not p bandai? Even better.
Yeah I'm not sure why certain items go in different directions, I do know these are super limited so it could be to raise awareness of the different partners, especially since they've never advertised EKnight before last week in their streams (I've bought a couple of things from them though over the last year-ish).
I did confirm the saber is the exact same price on both sites and still in stock, Tokullector is better about inventory and won't oversell but you have to pay immediately, EKnight sometimes will oversell and not get enough inventory sometimes (I ordered a Nendo from them and they cancelled it months after preordering, there warnings though), though you don't pay until the item ships. So both have their strong points depending on your finances I guess.
Except his name is Vroon, not Vroom - everything that officially localizes the name, including the screen in the gattai sequences, uses the N, but O-T uses an M
Man, as much as I enjoyed the recent episode...the next episode looks extra exciting. I guess this is where
Yeah, because Vroom is absolutely how it should be spelled and said in English regardless what pops up on screen. O-T continues to pick the best choices.
the anniversary aspect really kicks off.
Yeah, because Vroom is absolutely how it should be spelled and said in English regardless what pops up on screen. O-T continues to pick the best choices.
This is also the show where we have a character named Gaon and not Gaom, so I'm not really sure that the point that it "should be" something overwrites how the creators actually had in be in show and therefore what it is, lol
and yes yes, Gord Drive and Unkh, I know that they aren't always on top of things. But to argue that there's a reference in a character name based on reading that name as an English word and not as the made-up name it is, and then insisting that we as English speakers are absolutely right about this, just feels like a bit much.
It should be Vroom, because he's vehicle themed and it ties to Boukenger, and it sound like Broom because he's a cleaning robot. Gaon's fine as is, it's not some set rule I'm suggesting here.
Translation is more art than science. You pick what fits for the particular circumstances. Whether that means occasionally changing up romanization choices or translating a word two different ways in two different shows because of context.
I remember editing Gundam SEED on fansub when it first aired.
Take the character Sai Argyle. I heard the name, I translated as such. Then part way through the fansub, we got the official translation, which said his name was supposed to be "Ssigh".
We fought about it, I decided it was better not to change it to Ssigh, but I think that's what we did.
Cut to the official English translation. Guess what they go with? Sai. Because Ssigh is dumb. Of course it's dumb, and just because official Japanese translations go with that, doesn't mean you gotta stick with it. And that's to a lesser degree than "Vroon" to "Vroom"
Take the character Sai Argyle. I heard the name, I translated as such. Then part way through the fansub, we got the official translation, which said his name was supposed to be "Ssigh".
We fought about it, I decided it was better not to change it to Ssigh, but I think that's what we did.
Cut to the official English translation. Guess what they go with? Sai. Because Ssigh is dumb. Of course it's dumb, and just because official Japanese translations go with that, doesn't mean you gotta stick with it. And that's to a lesser degree than "Vroon" to "Vroom"
Honestly summarized what I was saying better than I ever could haha. Just puzzled by this Western-centric view that the show is what we want it to be or think makes the most sense for us lol - this is a Japanese show at the end of the day, so if they say Vroon, that's what it is. We can like something better but insisting our version is right just doesn't sit right with me.
But I guess to turn this back around - if we can acknowledge there's a gap of understanding there, why can't there also be one with regard to making these additional puns in English? If they don't know it's Vroom and not Vroon, it doesn't follow to me that -absolutely- they would've intended to make a Vroom/Broom joke if they did mean for Vroom. Especially with how many hands touch this IP - do we know they knew he'd be a cleaning robot in the show (which has nothing to do with Bouken or his actual designs) when he was named? Just bothers me the insistence that (1) for sure he's Vroom and (2) for sure there's a broom joke in there when we haven't gotten either from an official source and so it just feels like westerners insisting they know better. I'll drop this as this is very truly a non-issue at the end of the day, but glad I finally found a way to express what was bothering me about this debate.
To be fair I didn't realize the katakana was different from how Japan usually spells "vroom/broom".
I feel names are flexible enough that they probably can be changed late in development apart from the design. Also he turns into a dump truck which you could technically argue is basically a giant broom of sorts.
I feel names are flexible enough that they probably can be changed late in development apart from the design. Also he turns into a dump truck which you could technically argue is basically a giant broom of sorts.
But it's an English sub, there is some level of translation involved and getting across the intent of names can be to the benefit of a sub. I'm not saying go full 4Kids here, but some level of translation for the audience's sake can be beneficial, and give unique viewing experiences.
Look at Goseiger. Every single monster in the show is named after a film, their actions often even tie into said films. When TV-Nihon subbed it, they completely missed that fact. Later on, when Million Fold Curiosity got around to doing their own subs, they recognized those name references and adjusted them to work in English, because some Japanese film titles were vastly different from what an English speaking audience might know.
An easy and straight forward translation was for "UFO no Zaruwakku" named after "Saru no Wakusei" or Planet of the Apes, so that was translated as "Planapes of the UFO", which fits. He actively captures humans in nets, which is from the original Charlton Heston film.
Bladerun was a super easy one to keep because of how obvious it was, but what about this one?
"Hyousetsu no Yuuzeikusu" was named after "Yuusei kara no Butai X" or Object X from Another World...but odds are, you'd know it more as John Carpenter's The Thing. So, translating it as "Thethin of the Freeze" conveys what the intended audience was supposed to possibly gleam that we'd never see if it was left untranslated. He also freezes people because the film takes place in Antarctica. Yeah, some of the connections are more tenuous than others. I was partial to Dareptor of the Meteor (Dareptor, Predator) hunting down the Goseigers predator style in one episode.
There's nothing wrong with wanting translations to put in a little effort to convey the audience experience and meaning to the new audience of a different language. The less barriers there are to the experience, the wider the audience you could reach.
You start leaving in stuff like honorifics, tachis, have super long translator's notes, leaving in random Japanese when there's valid English equivalents, leaving verbal tics as just random words at the end of a line rather than incorporating it naturally into the dialogue...it's going to be harder for some people to really get into it.
You can have two people say almost the same thing, but established personality and tone can really change the feel of what they're saying. Take advantage of synonyms when translating, so even conveying the same information can let characters have different voices based on who they are and how they might speak in the language you're translating to.
Image Heavy:
It's fansubs. And just because hands touch the IP doesn't ensure the names are as intended.
One good example is Bakugo's hero name in the recent MHA. It went to official English press with one name, but they retroactively changed it, as the intention was made clearer, and alternate name better reflected that intention in English.
Another interesting one is Faiz Axel. The power-up appears in the episode 加速する魂. The first verb there is kasokusuru, "to speed up", "to accelerate". Which means the intention was probably "Accel". This is further enhanced by the kana:
ファイズアクセル, the later being translated as "Axel", but using the same kana as the much later Kamen Rider Accel from W. (仮面ライダーアクセル)
As others have pointed out, there are certain other mistakes (?).
He's clearly supposed to be Gold Drive. But, many of the toys and official items say "Gord". But it's also correct on the Premium Bandai site, as Gold Drive.
DX BANNO DRIVER | KAMEN RIDER / MASKED RIDER | BANDAI Official Online Store in Taiwan | Make-to-order Action figures, Model Kits, and Toys.
DX BANNO DRIVER | KAMEN RIDER / MASKED RIDER | BANDAI Official Online Store in Taiwan | Make-to-order Action figures, Model Kits, and Toys.
p-bandai.com
Amazon Alpha is actually romanized on official stuff as Alfa, but the other guy is Omega and there's a Sigma, so we know it's supposed to be "Alpha".
So that's how they romanize it in the official subs.
And Premium Bandai:
COMPLETE SELECTION MODIFICATION AMAZONSDRIVER | KAMEN RIDER / MASKED RIDER | BANDAI Official Online Store in Singapore | Make-to-order Action figures, Gunpla, and Toys.
<div style="text-align: center;font-weight: bold;"> Equipped with the tools in "Kamen Rider Amazons" <br> Transformation Belt for adult "CSM AMAZONSDRIVER" is now released! <br> ~Bringing the equipment and voices in the drama to life, dialogues of the 3 Riders included~...
p-bandai.com
These are not English shows, they largely don't care about the English audience, and they don't check with English speakers to see if romanization is correct. So while official spellings persist, they have previously been overridden by common sense. If I were translating, I'd probably make the change to Vroom as well. Some stick, some don't.
Case-by-case.
Yeah, I didn't realize that as well. Burun means vroom but is in hiragana, without the long sound, but Buruun the name is spelled in katakana. I still say it translates ok to Vroom.
Also while it will always be "Char" to me, I don't envy people who have to translate Gundam names canonically.
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Image Heavy:
It's fansubs. And just because hands touch the IP doesn't ensure the names are as intended.
One good example is Bakugo's hero name in the recent MHA. It went to official English press with one name, but they retroactively changed it, as the intention was made clearer, and alternate name better reflected that intention in English.
Another interesting one is Faiz Axel. The power-up appears in the episode 加速する魂. The first verb there is kasokusuru, "to speed up", "to accelerate". Which means the intention was probably "Accel". This is further enhanced by the kana:
ファイズアクセル, the later being translated as "Axel", but using the same kana as the much later Kamen Rider Accel from W. (仮面ライダーアクセル)
As others have pointed out, there are certain other mistakes (?).
He's clearly supposed to be Gold Drive. But, many of the toys and official items say "Gord". But it's also correct on the Premium Bandai site, as Gold Drive.
DX BANNO DRIVER | KAMEN RIDER / MASKED RIDER | BANDAI Official Online Store in Taiwan | Make-to-order Action figures, Model Kits, and Toys.
DX BANNO DRIVER | KAMEN RIDER / MASKED RIDER | BANDAI Official Online Store in Taiwan | Make-to-order Action figures, Model Kits, and Toys.
Amazon Alpha is actually romanized on official stuff as Alfa, but the other guy is Omega and there's a Sigma, so we know it's supposed to be "Alpha".
So that's how they romanize it in the official subs.
And Premium Bandai:
COMPLETE SELECTION MODIFICATION AMAZONSDRIVER | KAMEN RIDER / MASKED RIDER | BANDAI Official Online Store in Singapore | Make-to-order Action figures, Gunpla, and Toys.
<div style="text-align: center;font-weight: bold;"> Equipped with the tools in "Kamen Rider Amazons" <br> Transformation Belt for adult "CSM AMAZONSDRIVER" is now released! <br> ~Bringing the equipment and voices in the drama to life, dialogues of the 3 Riders included~...
These are not English shows, they largely don't care about the English audience, and they don't check with English speakers to see if romanization is correct. So while official spellings persist, they have previously been overridden by common sense. If I were translating, I'd probably make the change to Vroom as well. Some stick, some don't.
Case-by-case.
Lol please re-read my posts. I have no problem with fansubs. My problem is with: "Just bothers me the insistence that (1) for sure he's Vroom and (2) for sure there's a broom joke in there when we haven't gotten either from an official source and so it just feels like westerners insisting they know better."
I am a-okay with and fully support fansubs making this stuff easier for non-Japanese people to understand - I was here during the baka-san-tachi days, trust me, I know how much better subs are when they don't go that route and I too LOVE getting to unpack all of the puns they work into their stuff as enabled by some subbers' choices - but going a step beyond that and insisting that our fansubs are "right" (and then adding meaning to things based on those fan choices) without something from the actual creators to that point is Western-centric and gross.
I mean, I guess it's Western-centric because they're assuming they're correct, but also...they have no input on the final product. They in fact don't have much to do with one another, and without some sort of official English translation, which will never happen, it is what it is. And the official stuff will continue to use Vroon.
My point is that official sources can and have been wrong in terms of romanization, because they aren't English speakers.
They can release a figure tomorrow that says Vroon, and similar to "Gord Drive", some folks will continue to call him "Vroom", because that makes sense within the context of the story being told. Or they won't. It honestly doesn't matter. I think it's a whole lot of weight on folks being "right" in their opinions of a thing, especially the difference between a letter or two.
It might be the result of Japan having multiple alphabets they use is my understanding.
Gold can be written as kanji, hiragana, or katakana, but has the same meaning based on context and such. So, the roman alphabet is just another way to write a word, but the meaning is the same even if it "looks" different.
Does that make sense? That's my impression of how Japanese views words. Not as rigid as English can be with spelling words more or less the same.
Gold can be written as kanji, hiragana, or katakana, but has the same meaning based on context and such. So, the roman alphabet is just another way to write a word, but the meaning is the same even if it "looks" different.
Does that make sense? That's my impression of how Japanese views words. Not as rigid as English can be with spelling words more or less the same.
The only reason I was even slightly insistent was because you were insistent first.
"Except his name is Vroon, not Vroom - everything that officially localizes the name, including the screen in the gattai sequences, uses the N, but O-T uses an M"
That's what you posted behind a spoiler tag before my first post. Had you not insisted Vroon was the correct decision here, I would have more likely phrased it as "I prefer Vroom over Vroon", as I know translation choices are purely a matter of preference.
Then you start staying stuff like "Western-centric", and it just feels frankly insulting, as that was never my intent. I was just slightly bothered by your assurance that a translational choice for the sake of the audience was wrong and I responded in a bit more rude way than I would normally. I apologize for that.
Please just don't assume the worst from people.
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Gold Drive's name in Japanese is deliberately misspelled. He isn't called 金 (Kin, traditional word for Gold in Japan) Drive or even ゴールド (Gorudo, western import written in katakana). His name is ゴルドドライブ rather than ゴールドドライブ. The issue is that the misspelling they chose to represent that when writing the name in English is extremely aesthetically displeasing to western eyes, but it's not like they don't realize it's wrong. They do, they just don't realize how oddly ugly his official English name ended up.
Whether you're thinking Vroon is like that is ultimately a personal choice. We don't have any color or detail yet from the production team. But I went with "Gold" and "Alpha", so I know where I'm leaning.
Another weird one.
From Wizard, "White Wizard" is in the official stuff "Shiroi Mahoutsukai", literally the same thing in Japanese. Like, they clearly landed on the Japanese title, versus the romanization from the other figures.
Why? Lord only knows.
I noticed that, but that's also why I pointed out they put it as the English "Gold Drive" in certain spots on official merch and promo.
Another weird one.
From Wizard, "White Wizard" is in the official stuff "Shiroi Mahoutsukai", literally the same thing in Japanese. Like, they clearly landed on the Japanese title, versus the romanization from the other figures.
Why? Lord only knows.
I noticed that, but that's also why I pointed out they put it as the English "Gold Drive" in certain spots on official merch and promo.
Finally wrapped up Den-O last night after dragging it out, and now I'm onto the movies. I haven't decided which series to move onto next, but I'm leaning towards Kiva so I'll have seen everything from Den-O through OOOs. After that I can bounce around from there between early Heisei and Neo.
Is Vroom (/n) also supposed to be a pun on blue?
My avatar will clearly show my bias, but if you liked W/OOO I'd really recommend Fourze sooner rather than later. It executes on its vision better than a lot of other rider series and has an absolutely rock-solid cast.
My avatar will clearly show my bias, but if you liked W/OOO I'd really recommend Fourze sooner rather than later. It executes on its vision better than a lot of other rider series and has an absolutely rock-solid cast.
So originally I was going to watch Fourze after OOOs but decided to go back to some earlier shows (I watched Decade and Den-O and a little bit of Kuuga), I feel like I've been watching all bangers and I need to mix in a mediocre series so I'm not stuck with all of them at the end.
My plan right now is to do Kiva and then Fourze, and then Wizard, Gaim, etc and maybe flip around to early Heisei stuff.
Ahh, I can totally endorse saving something you know you'll probably like to wash a bad taste out of your mouth. I'm kinder toward Kiva than some (mainly on the strength of the cast/some of the suits) but it's definitely mixed at best. Curious what you'll think about Gaim if you're binging it. It was a great series to watch week-to-week (and certainly better than Wizard, which is b r u t a l) but thinking about it as a whole made a lot of weak points show up. Personally I prefer Ex-Aid to Gaim but some will probably call that a hot take =P
Vroom is subbed as Vroom because there's no singular M in Japanese. They just put it as Vroon because of that, so kids can spell the character name in katakana or hiragana.
If they really wanted to they could have spelled it "Vroomu" though. No big deal either way.
Must keep in mind that a lot of the boomer-level people working at Toei who make these decisions might not even speak English, and demand its done a specific way for branding etc. We're no strangers to wacky misspellings in official media.
There is a great show they could've made from the premise and first half
I watched the first eps of a couple different Rider series last week, and while I enjoyed most of them (except Kuuga) I'm not sure it's for me. Or at least the newer ones aren't. Maybe it's the digital filming, but there's something distractingly fake looking about -- like their shit really straight up look like toys. The CGI makes it look worse. I know their budgets are limited, and Japanese productions in general just don't have the same resources for CGI that American productions do. But it just looks bad.
I'm not sure if I'm just into Sentai more, or maybe it's an aversion to modern-looking toku, because I think the Rider episode I liked most was Black. And I do like Sentai, but the shows I've seen so far go no later than 2000, so everything was shot on film and done mostly, if not entirely, with practical effects.
I'm not sure if I'm just into Sentai more, or maybe it's an aversion to modern-looking toku, because I think the Rider episode I liked most was Black. And I do like Sentai, but the shows I've seen so far go no later than 2000, so everything was shot on film and done mostly, if not entirely, with practical effects.
If you haven't already, I'd recommend checking out Kamen Rider ZO and J on Toei's YouTube channel - these are standalone mini movies with no toy gimmicks and gorgeous pratical effects.
As for modern rider series, the hokiness is all part of the charm for me - those late nineties production values were kind of off-putting (Kuuga especially) to me too at first, but I quickly acclimatised.
In terms of CGI, the first episodes of each series usually go all-in on the big sfx-heavy set pieces to 'wow' the audience. After that, they're used a lot more sparingly. 'Their shit really straight up look like toys' because, well, they basically are - these series are vehicles for toys and merch, so that's unavoidable. For me, it doesn't distract from the aspects of the shows I like - the gonzo plotting, character interactions, melodrama, and old-school man-in-suit-action - but ymmv, obviously.
Ultraman Trigger announced, starting July 10th. Directed by Koichi Sakamoto.
Sounds like some kind of reboot by using same elements but telling a different story with different character. They do call it Ultraman Trigger: New Generation Tiga and the original Tiga is present in posters and promotional materials.
Sounds like some kind of reboot by using same elements but telling a different story with different character. They do call it Ultraman Trigger: New Generation Tiga and the original Tiga is present in posters and promotional materials.
😢Kiva isn't perfect but I really like it, I think it gets too much hate.
I think Japanese people in general care much less about "official romanizations" than we do. Try to explain the Vroon vs. Vroom debate and the most likely reaction is a shrug or flat out confusion what the difference is. It's like Goranger vs. Gorenger ... who cares?
Sure, all toku are basically toy commercials. There's just something about the look of the modern Rider shows that make the gear really look like toys, compared to KR Black. Maybe this isn't just a Rider thing though; I've only watched 90s Sentai shows, so maybe modern Sentai has that same flat look.
