Today I kind of fucked up...at least it feels like that

[Tomo815]

So this is like a faction war between those of you who like grammar and those of you who...don't...like grammar?

This sounds like an anime, OP.

Spoiler

Glad you're okay, though. Don't fight people.

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Basically two of us like grammar and we plan ahead on a chapter or a point to work on. I usually print stuff out for everybody.

The other two guys dont like this study method and prefer conversation. I like conversation too but sometimes you need grammar as well.

So instead of organising something between them the guys keeps coming to our study group but complains that grammar is useless and we don't need it.

This is about foreign language learning, not English.

 

[Calamari41]

Basically two of us like grammar and we plan ahead on a chapter or a point to work on. I usually print stuff out for everybody.

The other two guys dont like this study method and prefer conversation. I like conversation too but sometimes you need grammar as well.

So instead of organising something between them the guys keeps coming to our study group but complains that grammar is useless and we don't need it.

This is about foreign language learning, not English.

Click to shrink...

After this I certainly hope that you and the guy who wants to study grammar are splintering off and doing your own thing?

 

[Deleted member 24052]

Basically two of us like grammar and we plan ahead on a chapter or a point to work on. I usually print stuff out for everybody.

The other two guys dont like this study method and prefer conversation. I like conversation too but sometimes you need grammar as well.

So instead of organising something between them the guys keeps coming to our study group but complains that grammar is useless and we don't need it.

This is about foreign language learning, not English.

Click to shrink...

It's bizarre to me that these folks are trying to learn a second language but think grammar isn't important...

A mixture of conversational learning and basics (like grammar) would seem, to me, like a necessity.

 

[Tomo815]

After this I certainly hope that you and the guy who wants to study grammar are splintering off and doing your own thing?

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Right now I dont even know if I want to go back to the community centre.

 

[Bear]

How old are you OP? Feel like this kind of thing only happens until your early 20s.

 

[Cyclonesweep]

Im not a violent man but I don't know if I could just stand there and let someone beat on me.

 

[Officer Big Mac]

Im not a violent man but I don't know if I could just stand there and let someone beat on me.

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that's why you lay down

 

[Calamari41]

Right now I dont even know if I want to go back to the community centre.

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Is your class at the community center, or just the study group? Either way I wouldn't quit the class, just take the study sessions to your house or the other guy's house, or a library, or what have you.

 

[Deleted member 13496]

I must have missed this episode of Community.

 

[Deleted member 35478]

Classic case of cooler heads would have prevailed. Instead of deescalating both parties went full stupid, and we are hearing one side of the story. Cool.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

What ever you do, PRESS CHARGES so he doesn't assault another innocent person.

 

[Deleted member 1445]

You could have also died if things went south. If you step outside like that be prepared to fight. Just use this as a learning experience and next time try to walk away if possible.

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How about you don't blame the victim here and show some support?

Toxic masculinity up the wazoo in this thread, holy fuck.

OP, you were assaulted, you did nothing wrong, you didn't deserve this. It's not your fault in any conceivable way. Don't let any toxic nitwit tell you otherwise. Physical violence is not ok, I hope you can get some therapy to help you process this, and the lack of subsequent support that men get when having faced traumatic situations like this.

 

[Tomo815]

How about you don't blame the victim here and show some support?

Toxic masculinity up the wazoo in this thread, holy fuck.

OP, you were assaulted, you did nothing wrong, you didn't deserve this. It's not your fault in any conceivable way. Don't let any toxic nitwit tell you otherwise. Physical violence is not ok, I hope you can get some therapy to help you process this, and the lack of subsequent support that men get when having faced traumatic situations like this.

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Thank you emesve, I think tomorrow I may go to the hospital to have my leg checked, maybe Ill ask for some help as well..

 

[Cyclonesweep]

How about you don't blame the victim here and show some support?

Toxic masculinity up the wazoo in this thread, holy fuck.

OP, you were assaulted, you did nothing wrong, you didn't deserve this. It's not your fault in any conceivable way. Don't let any toxic nitwit tell you otherwise. Physical violence is not ok, I hope you can get some therapy to help you process this, and the lack of subsequent support that men get when having faced traumatic situations like this.

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I don't think anyone is really blaming OP.
What happened to him is wrong and shouldn't have happened.
That said they can still use it as a learning opportunity for themselves that if someone asks them to "take this outside" and they oblige, 9/10 you are going to take a fist to the face. So now in the future they can better protect themselves from people like this.
Being assaulted is always wrong and never your fault. But just like locks on your door at home, they are there to help lower the chances of bad shit happening to you. It wouldn't be your fault if you left your door unlocked and you got robbed. You could of still been robbed if you locked it. Locking it is still a good idea, and helps to protect yourself.

 

[bananab]

How old are you OP? Feel like this kind of thing only happens until your early 20s.

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They describe themselves as "quite old," but I too am genuinely curious about the actual figure here.

 

[Messofanego]

Where did "let's take it outside" originate from? Western duels, English duels? Or much more recently?

 

[HardRojo]

I honestly didn't realize "taking it outside" was an actual thing men did in real life. The idea of it is so silly. "Come on, I wanna beat the shit out of you, but I don't want to break our plates"

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I guess it's similar to early DBZ when Goku requested going to a desolate place to fight his opponent.

 

[Cyclonesweep]

Where did "let's take it outside" originate from? Western duels, English duels? Or much more recently?

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I think it came from Western duels and kept going because it made sense.
They can't stop you from throwing down but they can tell you to get the hell out of their establishment first lol

I think more modern, bars and shit don't want to be liable if people get hurt in their place, so they tell them to go outside cause then its the streets problem.

 

[CloseTalker]

How do women sort it out then? Dance off?

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I'm not a woman lol, I'm just not a thug circa 1955

 

[Deleted member 1445]

I don't think anyone is really blaming OP.
What happened to him is wrong and shouldn't have happened.
That said they can still use it as a learning opportunity for themselves that if someone asks them to "take this outside" and they oblige, 9/10 you are going to take a fist to the face. So now in the future they can better protect themselves from people like this.

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You do realize you just described victim blaming here, right? Astounding, to be honest.

Going outside with someone is not consent to get physically attacked. Pissing someone off is not consent. Don't tell victims what they should have done to prevent this, that is exactly what victim blaming is.

Getting physically assaulted is a traumatic event, and should be met with support. Not with blaming, dismissiveness, and putting the onus on the victim to "learn" . So you can prevent it in the future? Really? As if it's his fault. No, it's not his fault and will never be. People should keep their hands to themselves.

 

[Deleted member 36054]

Let me get this straight OP, you told someone you wanted that smoke, and proceeded to get it. Next steps should be to take a self defense class.

 

[bluexy]

Hey OP, I'm sorry this happened to you. You in no way deserved to be attacked and frankly, it's disgusting some people here are insinuating otherwise. I hope your attacker receives appropriate punishment. It's never okay to assault another.

 

[TheFatOne]

How about you don't blame the victim here and show some support?

Toxic masculinity up the wazoo in this thread, holy fuck.

OP, you were assaulted, you did nothing wrong, you didn't deserve this. It's not your fault in any conceivable way. Don't let any toxic nitwit tell you otherwise. Physical violence is not ok, I hope you can get some therapy to help you process this, and the lack of subsequent support that men get when having faced traumatic situations like this.

Click to shrink...

Stop it. The op made an incredibly stupid mistake. He accepted an invitation for a fight and then declined to do anything. Fortunately for him nothing happened, but he could have easily been killed for his stupidity. It's not about toxic masculinity at all, but about common sense. Don't accept an invitation to a fight in the first place if you aren't ready to protect yourself.

The op had the opportunity to walk away, but chose to fight. Even if his intentions were good the decision was moronic. This shit aint the movies, and it could have easily gone sideways. I'm not saying this to be an asshole or to harp on the op too much. It's just the reality of the situation. I've seen people stabbed and nearly killed for stupid shit like this. What the op did was roll the random universe dice. It didn't come out snake eyes, but could have easily.

Hey OP, I'm sorry this happened to you. You in no way deserved to be attacked and frankly, it's disgusting some people here are insinuating otherwise. I hope your attacker receives appropriate punishment. It's never okay to assault another.

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Apologies read this wrong. Thought you meant it was the right decision to walk out to the fight.

 

[Calamari41]

You do realize you just described victim blaming here, right? Astounding, to be honest.

Going outside with someone is not consent to get physically attacked. Pissing someone off is not consent. Don't tell victims what they should have done to prevent this, that is exactly what victim blaming is.

Getting physically assaulted is a traumatic event, and should be met with support. Not with blaming, dismissiveness, and putting the onus on the victim to "learn" . So you can prevent it in the future? Really? As if it's his fault. No, it's not his fault and will never be. People should keep their hands to themselves.

Click to shrink...

Informing someone that they will likely be punched if they walk outside with an angry person who says "let's take this outside" is not victim blaming. This doesn't in any way mean that he deserved to be attacked. But "let's take this outside" is functionally the same thing as "I'm going to attack you," and if the OP doesn't realize that (which seems to be the genuine case) then it's important for him to know that for the future.

 

[RestEerie]

 

[Deleted member 1445]

Stop it. The op made an incredibly stupid mistake. He accepted an invitation for a fight and then declined to do anything. Fortunately for him nothing happened, but he could have easily been killed for his stupidity. It's not about toxic masculinity at all, but about common sense. Don't accept an invitation to a fight in the first place if you aren't ready to protect yourself.

The op had the opportunity to walk away, but chose to fight. Even if his intentions were good the decision was moronic. This shit aint the movies, and it could have easily gone sideways. I'm not saying this to be an asshole or to harp on the op too much. It's just the reality of the situation. I've seen people stabbed and nearly killed for stupid shit like this. What the op did was roll the random universe dice. It didn't come out snake eyes, but could have easily.

Hard disagree. The op had the choice of walking away, but instead walked outside to handle this bullshit. It was a beyond stupid decision.

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Stop what? What you're doing here is victim blaming, nothing else. At least admit to it. Pretending as if you're not blaming the victim here makes it even more disgusting. Bleh.

 

[John Rabbit]

that's why you lay down

Click to shrink...

Just immediately disrobe entirely.

 

[Deleted member 1445]

Informing someone that they will likely be punched if they walk outside with an angry person who says "let's take this outside" is not victim blaming. This doesn't in any way mean that he deserved to be attacked. But "let's take this outside" is functionally the same thing as "I'm going to attack you," and if the OP doesn't realize that (which seems to be the genuine case) then it's important for him to know that for the future.

Click to shrink...

Nobody asked for your 20/20 hindsight statement. Don't tell people that they shouldn't wear "provocative" clothing if they don't want to be sexually assaulted. Don't tell people what to do when they've been assaulted, period. How much do we have to talk about this shit before it gets into people's thick fucking heads.

The onus is not on the victim to be an ideal victim, just so they can be met with support.

Read up on fucking victim blaming and get that toxic shit out of here -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_blaming

 

[Watchtower]

I don't think you fucked up in the sense that you didn't do anything outright bad, certainly not anything illegal. Like it's totally fair this ain't a street rules thing so definitely get the cops involved, you should be all in the clear.

I do think you messed up in the sense that I'm confused what in the bloody hell you were doing. You got this clearly aggressive dude wanting you punch your shit in and you entertain it because, what, you didn't think he'd actually do it, right? Then surprise he does and you don't defend yourself? You don't defend yourself because of the optics? Like, I can't help but think about the kind of people that jump in front of moving cars to collect insurance money. I'm not saying you asked for or deserved it or anything garbage like that, but it just don't make sense.

People have already given good advice, but yeah, you're perfectly free to walk away from any shitty situation and you're perfectly free to defend yourself. Don't get yourself killed out there, man.

Look. At this community centre, we are all foreign language learners. Some people prefer studying grammar. Others hate grammar. Thats fine.

The problem started when grammar-hating guys started to come to our grammar study group on Friday mornings. Nobody pushed them. Theres no exam. Its free.

So we are studying grammar but this one dude is always complaining that grammar sucks. So today I told to put some effort or find another method to learn the language or stop being so annoying. The guy left and he spoke to his mate. Mate told me that I was disrespectful. So I said 'you werent even there, nothing to do with you'. He also hates grammar. I used to print out stuff for our study group and he seemed to hate that, like I was forcing him to learn stuff. I wasnt, I thought it would have been weird if I printed out stuff for my friend and not for him.

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What in the Sam Hill.

 

[Calamari41]

Nobody asked for your 20/20 hindsight statement. Don't tell people that they shouldn't wear "provocative" clothing if they don't want to be sexually assaulted. Don't tell people what to do when they've been assaulted, period. How much do we have to talk about this shit before it gets into people's thick fucking heads.

The onus is not on the victim to be an ideal victim, just so they can be met with support.

Read up on fucking victim blaming and get that toxic shit out of here -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_blaming

Click to shrink...

The OP literally asked for tactics on how to de-escalate arguments so that they don't reach this point in the future.

You should consider taking a breath and calming down.

 

[Curt Baboon]

Look. At this community centre, we are all foreign language learners. Some people prefer studying grammar. Others hate grammar. Thats fine.

The problem started when grammar-hating guys started to come to our grammar study group on Friday mornings. Nobody pushed them. Theres no exam. Its free.

So we are studying grammar but this one dude is always complaining that grammar sucks. So today I told to put some effort or find another method to learn the language or stop being so annoying. The guy left and he spoke to his mate. Mate told me that I was disrespectful. So I said 'you werent even there, nothing to do with you'. He also hates grammar. I used to print out stuff for our study group and he seemed to hate that, like I was forcing him to learn stuff. I wasnt, I thought it would have been weird if I printed out stuff for my friend and not for him.

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This really has to be one of the funniest, most insane reasons for a fight I've ever heard. It's like a real life version of that Anchorman scene.

 

[Tomo815]

Nobody asked for your 20/20 hindsight statement. Don't tell people that they shouldn't wear "provocative" clothing if they don't want to be sexually assaulted. Don't tell people what to do when they've been assaulted, period. How much do we have to talk about this shit before it gets into people's thick fucking heads.

The onus is not on the victim to be an ideal victim, just so they can be met with support.

Read up on fucking victim blaming and get that toxic shit out of here -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_blaming

Click to shrink...

Thank you for the link emesive. I agree with you. I didn't agree to any fighting. The guy had plenty of opportunities to stop hitting me, he was hoping that at some point I would lose my cool and retaliate. He realised after 10 minutes he fucked up. When the police arrived he told them that I was a liar- "dont make up stuff, tell them I didnt hit you".

Then when he realised this was going to be serious he asked me to forgive him "please lets stop this". The police wasnt impressed, they didnt seem to think that having an argument outside means that assault is ok.

 

[Exile20]

To be honest I was kind of surprised at the extent of his actions. Not because Im scared or I cant take a punch. Its because my wife would fucking crucify me if I assaulted somebody. I just could not believe he would risk so much for something so insignificant (he felt my attitude toward his friend was rude).

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But you challenged him by going out. You put yourself in a no-win situation and you got bruised for it. Tempers fly and you were not thinking straight I guess but what you did proved nothing.

 

[Deleted member 1445]

The OP literally asked for tactics on how to de-escalate arguments so that they don't reach this point in the future.

You should consider taking a breath and calming down.

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Nothing in the OP asks for advice. He described what happened, mentions he feels like he fucked up. Obviously this person is distressed and needs emotional support, not "advice", unless they ask for it with their own initiative, and is abundantly specific that they do not want support, they want advice, do NOT give advice in situations like this.

No need for me to take a breath. I'm angry about this, and rightfully so. I'm not ok with any of this victim blaming, and I hope all of you who have done so in this thread will one day understand how terribly unhealthy, traumatizing and just generally toxic this behavior is.

 

[Calamari41]

Nothing in the OP asks for advice. He described what happened, mentions he feels like he fucked up. Obviously this person is distressed and needs emotional support, not "advice", unless they ask for it with their own initiative, and is abundantly specific that they do not want support, they want advice, do NOT give advice in situations like this.

No need for me to take a breath. I'm angry about this, and rightfully so. I'm not ok with any of this victim blaming, and I hope all of you who have done so in this thread will one day understand how terribly unhealthy, traumatizing and just generally toxic this behavior is.

Click to shrink...

Ok I think I need some advice. Whats a good way to de-escalate arguments?

Click to shrink...

 

[Tomo815]

But you challenged him by going out. You put yourself in a no-win situation and you got bruised for it. Tempers fly and you were not thinking straight I guess but what you did proved nothing.

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Lol seriously Im quite cool with this opinion,

But really stepping outside doesn't mean you agree to combat. Maybe in some country it does, but where I live you can go anywhere you like, day or night, and nobody can beat you up without consequences.

I would try to de-escalte, but the guy could have followed me out anyway.

 

[Deleted member 1445]

That question was already answered Calamari41 , don't be disingenuous with this. If it makes it easier for you, imagine how consent and victim blaming works regarding sexual assault. Same applies here. Just because it's two men, and it's general physical assault instead of sexual assault, doesn't mean you can throw it all out the window.

 

[Calamari41]

That question was already answered Calamari41 , don't be disingenuous with this. If it makes it easier for you, imagine how consent and victim blaming works regarding sexual assault. Same applies here. Just because it's two men, and it's general physical assault instead of sexual assault, doesn't mean you can throw it all out the window.

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I'm not being disingenuous. You can even go back and look at my direct answer to that question on the last page, which I feel was pretty good and thoughtful. "Don't go outside with an angry person who says they want to settle this man-to-man" is a genuine answer to the question of how to keep situations like this from escalating. If that is traumatic to hear, which the OP just said is not the case, then it's better to not ask the question in the first place.

Anyway, this is absurd. Being called a victim blamer for answering someone's question as to how they can keep this from happening again is ridiculous. I'm going to take my own advice, namely: "You should only 'argue' with someone who is interested in having a reasoned discussion about a topic. There's nothing to be gained by interacting with someone who is looking to get angry"

I wish you the best, genuinely. I've heard what you have to say about victim blaming, and I disagree, and would appreciate it if you would stop going endlessly back and forth with me.

 

[ash32121]

We about to have a one on one in this thread right now by the look of it.

 

[bananab]

Lol seriously Im quite cool with this opinion,

But really stepping outside doesn't mean you agree to combat. Maybe in some country it does, but where I live you can go anywhere you like, day or night, and nobody can beat you up without consequences.

I would try to de-escalte, but the guy could have followed me out anyway.

Click to shrink...

Were you unaware that being invited outside to settle things is basically code for "I want to fight you?" Because if you both understood the meaning of that invitation, then stepping outside does indeed mean you agree to combat.

 

[ash32121]

Were you unaware that being invited outside to settle things is basically code for "I want to fight you?" Because if you both understood the meaning of that invitation, then stepping outside does indeed mean you agree to combat.

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I think he understands stepping outside means a fight, but he didn't think the other party is actually dumb enough to punch people over a silly argument. That my take anyway.

 

[Curt Baboon]

Lol seriously Im quite cool with this opinion,

But really stepping outside doesn't mean you agree to combat. Maybe in some country it does, but where I live you can go anywhere you like, day or night, and nobody can beat you up without consequences.

I would try to de-escalte, but the guy could have followed me out anyway.

Click to shrink...

I think it's more about context. If some asshole says "I'll see you in the parking lot after grammar school, bitch!" after an argument and the guy is clearly acting aggressively, it's probably not the best idea to do as he says and meet him in the parking lot after grammar school. Whatever there is to be gained by trying to de-escalate the situation passively is probably not worth it against the very real possibility that this clearly unstable person who just challenged you to a high school-level fight might be dumb enough to actually follow through.

 

[Tomo815]

Were you unaware that being invited outside to settle things is basically code for "I want to fight you?" Because if you both understood the meaning of that invitation, then stepping outside does indeed mean you agree to combat.

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In my book, you agree to combat when somebody punches you and you punch them back. A fight ensues.

If the other party does not fight back, the situation is clear: there is no consent to fighting.

Its a bit like sex lol

 

[BlackGoku03]

I've gotta ask... how old is quite old? Over 55?

And what place would you be at fault for defending oneself?

 

[Tomo815]

I've gotta ask... how old is quite old? Over 55?

And what place would you be at fault for defending oneself?

Click to shrink...

Between 40 and 50. Anywhere in the world where its ok to speak but not to touch.

 

[Zen]

Going outside to settle things might historically be assumed to be a fight, but it doesn't have to be. Could just be an argument. I think OP knows plenty well in hindsight what he coulda shoulda woulda, but does that matter? It isn't on him that the other guy is a violent dick.

 

[Tomo815]

I think he understands stepping outside means a fight, but he didn't think the other party is actually dumb enough to punch people over a silly argument. That my take anyway.

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Basically this. I didn't think anybody would be so silly to actually do it. I mean, what was he thinking? Maybe he wasn't thinking.

If I ever came home with the police because I assaulted somebody my wife would rip me a new one.

 

[Deleted member 1445]

I'm not being disingenuous. You can even go back and look at my direct answer to that question on the last page, which I feel was pretty good and thoughtful. "Don't go outside with an angry person who says they want to settle this man-to-man" is a genuine answer to the question of how to keep situations like this from escalating. If that is traumatic to hear, which the OP just said is not the case, then it's better to not ask the question in the first place.

Anyway, this is absurd. Being called a victim blamer for answering someone's question as to how they can keep this from happening again is ridiculous. I'm going to take my own advice, namely: "You should only 'argue' with someone who is interested in having a reasoned discussion about a topic. There's nothing to be gained by interacting with someone who is looking to get angry"

I wish you the best, genuinely. I've heard what you have to say about victim blaming, and I disagree, and would appreciate it if you would stop going endlessly back and forth with me.

Click to shrink...

You inserted yourself into a line of discussion that was about the general victim blaming in this thread, specifically started by my reply to a post from someone decidedly *not you*. So I'm a bit confused why you're starting to make this about your post now.

 

[smileyforall220]

I honestly didn't realize "taking it outside" was an actual thing PEOPLE did in real life. The idea of it is so silly. "Come on, I wanna beat the shit out of you, but I don't want to break our plates"

Click to shrink...

Fixed that for you. It's not just men who do this sort of thing. Can tell you never lived in a rough/ratchet area lol. There's a reason worldstar vertical videos became as big as they did. Half of the fights outside are ladies trying to grab that wig

 

[bananab]

In my book, you agree to combat when somebody punches you and you punch them back. A fight ensues.

If the other party does not fight back, the situation is clear: there is no consent to fighting.

Its a bit like sex lol

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I agree with you that once it's obvious the other person isn't fighting back, it should stop (I wouldn't gamble with that, though). It sounds like that's what happened, actually: he just didn't figure it out after a single punch. But that's more of a cancellation clause, lol. When someone invites you outside for a fight, and you show up, they're gonna assume you're there to fight them.