To what extent can an app spy on you? I'm not concerned about advertising, more about government spying.

Cow Mengde · Jan 9, 2021

Sorry for being vague. I have an app I can't get rid of that we all know is being spied on by a certain Orwellian Government using technology to control people. I have family and friends in that country and might visit every now and then. I can't get rid of the app because that's how I can be in contact with friends and family there.

While I know they spy on me, I just don't know to what extent. Like say I log on through my browser in my phone and I post a message here agreeing with others on the immoral ethics, would the app be able to send the data back to them? Would they then know that it's me posting even though I'm on a PC that doesn't have the app on?

I don't say much in threads criticizing them and it kills me inside. I also realize I don't know how much data these apps can harvest, and maybe I am overestimating how far the technology has come. Am I being too paranoid?

sixteen-bit · Jan 9, 2021

buy a flip phone (or linux smartphone), get off social media, and call it a day

jwk94 · Jan 9, 2021

Umm, is this WeChat?

ClickyCal' · Jan 9, 2021

If you're concerned about that, you may as well stay offline entirely, and not have a smartphone.

Zaphod · Jan 9, 2021

If you're on an iPhone, you can quarantine the app pretty well. Anything that is said on the app is probably stored and analyzed by the government in question though. There's little you can do about that.

Jonnax · Jan 9, 2021

So there's the potential for it.
And an installed app is capable.
Like things like your IP address could be tied to your app account.

Also your web browser leaks a lot of info about your device:

Am I Unique ?

Check if your browser has a unique fingerprint, how identifiable you are on the Internet

amiunique.org

But really it depends on the effort required. And you're not that special.

The more realistic thing is that you'd be at a border, and they'd ask you to unlock your phone. And then they'll connect it to a device that will copy all the data on it.

America does that. So your country can do as well.

Addie · Jan 9, 2021

It's WeChat. Assume it's everything.

Right · Jan 9, 2021

Everything is possible.
Although I'm pretty sure we chat only monitor your group messages

BrassDragon · Jan 9, 2021

If it's a state actor, surveillance will usually be more persistent than just a single app. You might want to look into open source resources for journalists operating in unsecure environments, like the Electronic Frontier Foundation. That's general advice but chances are, journalists and cybersecurity experts have looked at the country you're worried about and there will be specific resources to harden your communications for that visit.

Cow Mengde · Jan 9, 2021

BrassDragon said:
If it's a state actor, surveillance will usually be more persistent than just a single app. You might want to look into open source resources for journalists operating in unsecure environments, like the Electronic Frontier Foundation. That's general advice but chances are, journalists and cybersecurity experts have looked at the country you're worried about and there will be specific resources to harden your communications for that visit.

I'm just a nobody. I'm not planning on storming capitals or anything. I don't have the power to do anything. I do want to be able to vent freely.

MikeHattsu · Jan 9, 2021

My Phone Was Spying on Me, so I Tracked Down the Surveillants

There are 160 apps on my phone. What they're actually doing, I don't know. But I decided to find out. This is an English translation, read the original here. I have a feeling these apps are …

nrkbeta.no

Zaimokuza · Jan 9, 2021

The totalitarian dictatorship with actual concentration camps that is currently trying to anschluss a certain region thanks to the appeasement policy of the other major powers that we're all thinking of does indeed harvest data from the app we're all thinking of.

That app isn't end-to-end encrypted and all messages sent through it pass through their servers. It's also nice to know that the party in charge actively influences decisions of their private sector. Just look at the recent events surrounding a certain billionaire

ken_matthews · Jan 9, 2021

Cow Mengde said:
Sorry for being vague. I have an app I can't get rid of that we all know is being spied on by a certain Orwellian Government using technology to control people. I have family and friends in that country and might visit every now and then. I can't get rid of the app because that's how I can be in contact with friends and family there.

While I know they spy on me, I just don't know to what extent. Like say I log on through my browser in my phone and I post a message here agreeing with others on the immoral ethics, would the app be able to send the data back to them? Would they then know that it's me posting even though I'm on a PC that doesn't have the app on?

I don't say much in threads criticizing them and it kills me inside. I also realize I don't know how much data these apps can harvest, and maybe I am overestimating how far the technology has come. Am I being too paranoid?

I think it depends on the what country and app you are talking about. If you live in the US, then the app is almost certainly not automatically sending your data back to the government. However, there have been plenty of reports about national security laws, the patriot act, and how many of the big companies share data upon the government's request. This NBC article talks a bit about the history and proposed legislation to curtail the practice. I would be much more worried if it was WeChat and your family lives in China (an example of what they routinely do). In many parts of the world, commercial companies have enough separation from the government to push back or even reject data requests from the government. The Apple vs FBI case is a famous one. However, that distance doesn't really exist in China. The CCP actually passed a law in 2017 that requires any organization to support and cooperate with national security work.

I don't know what country you live in or what app this is, but if it is on the China side of the spectrum, then I would just assume they have access to anything on your phone/app. To be more explicit, yes the app would be able to send the data back. Whether they can tie your app activity to your desktop browsing is a different story but I am going to guess that it is very possible.

Alpheus · Jan 9, 2021

yuoke said:
If you're concerned about that, you may as well stay offline entirely, and not have a smartphone.

Pretty much this.

Zarshack · Jan 9, 2021

You are not special, no one cares enough to spy on you unless you are doing dodgy shit.

Alpheus · Jan 9, 2021

Zarshack said:
You are not special, no one cares enough to spy on you unless you are doing dodgy shit.

This too

Cow Mengde · Jan 9, 2021

Zarshack said:
You are not special, no one cares enough to spy on you unless you are doing dodgy shit.

One of my friends has a business partner (or plan to partner) that's in exile from the government. Granted this isn't a close friend and I never seen or met her business partner. She told me this through text and not the app, but it does have me concerned.

Addie · Jan 9, 2021

Zarshack said:
You are not special, no one cares enough to spy on you unless you are doing dodgy shit.

This mindset conflates collection with exploitation.

ty_hot · Jan 9, 2021

You can probably revoke permissions for the app which I believe would make it live on a bubble of it's own and not be able to access anything outside of the app. Obviously it is possible that hackers could find a way to breach the permission requirement, but honestly odds are that if that was possible for sure it would have been news at some point (extremely unlikely that only people from the country you are worried about are the ones that can bypass this restriction).

You can also add the app in a 'deep sleep' list, however your phone calls it (make it save battery so it has less access to run on the background and uses less internet).

I think you are being a bit paranoid, if you are a nobody there is nearly zero chance they will cause trouble to you, but you do you.

Wanace · Jan 9, 2021

I use WeChat daily and criticize the CCP and the US Government on it all the time but all my permissions on it are off so it doesn't get anything from iOS as far as I know. And even if they do I don't give a fuck. Everything I say on the app I would say out loud as well so it's not like privileged information.

Shifty360 · Jan 9, 2021

Talking about the general concept of privacy invasion by state actors / private companies I always land on the side of privacy.

But I always ask the question of people I know who obsess over this thing ... why would the government be spying on you? You aren't a criminal or member of an illegal org, out to over throw the state.

Let's face it, 99% of the population aren't worth spying on .... they do nothing and are boring.

Pargon · Jan 9, 2021

If you're on iOS an app basically shouldn't be able to spy on anything done outside of the app itself, except maybe accessing the clipboard - especially if you don't grant it permissions to things like your photo library.
I'm not sure what the concern here is though, since you aren't living in the country - that they will spy on your activities and hold your family ransom for whatever it is that you're doing?
That seems overly paranoid, unless you are actually doing something which would warrant it.

SapientWolf · Jan 9, 2021

You could sandbox it on PC. Then it won't ever get an opportunity to track anything on your phone.

Zarshack · Jan 9, 2021

Addie said:
This mindset conflates collection with exploitation.

There's a difference between them data collecting for marketing purposes and actively spying on you.

Cow Mengde · Jan 9, 2021

SapientWolf said:
You could sandbox it on PC. Then it won't ever get an opportunity to track anything on your phone.

I don't have it on PC.

Deleted member 48201 · Jan 9, 2021

Wanace said:
I use WeChat daily and criticize the CCP and the US Government on it all the time but all my permissions on it are off so it doesn't get anything from iOS as far as I know. And even if they do I don't give a fuck. Everything I say on the app I would say out loud as well so it's not like privileged information.

If you use WeChat you are actually helping the CCP train the algorithms that they use to censor users in China.

WeChat Surveillance Explained - The Citizen Lab

This document provides a summary of the Citizen Lab's WeChat surveillance research findings, as well as questions and answers from the resesearch team.

citizenlab.ca

Wanace · Jan 9, 2021

Hanzo said:
If you use WeChat you are actually helping the CCP train the algorithms that they use to censor users in China.

WeChat Surveillance Explained - The Citizen Lab

This document provides a summary of the Citizen Lab's WeChat surveillance research findings, as well as questions and answers from the resesearch team.

citizenlab.ca

Yeah unfortunately I lived there for ten years so they've got plenty out of me. Nothing new from me these days though.

Pancracio17 · Jan 9, 2021

A lot, but even if its not much they can cross referencr with other datasets and end up with a pretty complete picture

Addie · Jan 9, 2021

Zarshack said:
There's a difference between them data collecting for marketing purposes and actively spying on you.

That's not what I meant. I meant that collection and exploitation are different functions. The universe of what the CCP (or any intelligence activity) collects is larger than what's processed and used.

Ra · Jan 9, 2021

Is your concern being critical, then being picked up next time you go to visit?

Deleted member 46493 · Jan 9, 2021

The government has Ben spying on you forever man. Give it up. AT&T and other telecoms have direct line and contracts with the government for this.

Any notion of private was gone with the Patriot Act and whatever legislation comes after the recent insurrection.

Cow Mengde · Jan 9, 2021

K.Jack said:
Is your concern being critical, then being picked up next time you go to visit?

I mean, maybe I am being paranoid. Just the whole protest in the capital suddenly reminded me that a friend might be going into business with a wanted person that was exiled. I didn't dare ask how that's going ever since she brought it up.

Deleted member 86891 · Jan 9, 2021

honest question: why do people care about being spied on by china, assuming there's no chance you'll be living there or anything? hell, even if you went there on vacation, imagine the amount of outrage there'd be if you disappeared. especially when the republicans are so anti-china nowadays.
the chinese government isn't going to come and arrest you or something, even if you're super critical of it, as long as you live in the US. especially considering we're all just regular civilians. probably the only thing the chinese govt wants is economic advantages, which I honestly don't care that much about. I care much more about my own government spying on me, personally, as a quick glance at the Snowden files will tell you just how much the US spies on its citizens.

Guppeth · Jan 9, 2021

ointment said:
honest question: why do people care about being spied on by china, assuming there's no chance you'll be living there or anything? hell, even if you went there on vacation, imagine the amount of outrage there'd be if you disappeared. especially when the republicans are so anti-china nowadays.
the chinese government isn't going to come and arrest you or something, even if you're super critical of it, as long as you live in the US. especially considering we're all just regular civilians. probably the only thing the chinese govt wants is economic advantages, which I honestly don't care that much about. I care much more about my own government spying on me, personally, as a quick glance at the Snowden files will tell you just how much the US spies on its citizens.

If you're using WeChat, it's probably to talk to people in China. Being cautious is more about protecting them.

Deleted member 48201 · Jan 9, 2021

ointment said:
honest question: why do people care about being spied on by china, assuming there's no chance you'll be living there or anything? hell, even if you went there on vacation, imagine the amount of outrage there'd be if you disappeared. especially when the republicans are so anti-china nowadays.
the chinese government isn't going to come and arrest you or something, even if you're super critical of it, as long as you live in the US. especially considering we're all just regular civilians. probably the only thing the chinese govt wants is economic advantages, which I honestly don't care that much about. I care much more about my own government spying on me, personally, as a quick glance at the Snowden files will tell you just how much the US spies on its citizens.

Chinese diaspora around the world that still have family in China are actively targeted by the CCP with operation fox hunt.

"The proxy from China will have a face-to-face conversation … to explain either subtly or not subtly what they expect in terms of the family member's behaviour in Canada and next steps that will be taken if people don't co-operate."

Mr. Kurland said the Chinese state has grown "less reluctant to do this kind of dirty work on Canadian soil to members of the Chinese Canadian community."

In some cases, Chinese authorities have dispatched people to Canada to try to put pressure on people to return, he said. In other cases, his clients' relatives in China were detained to force them to come back.

Mr. Fadden said Chinese Fox Hunt agents come to Canada either under diplomatic cover or covertly on tourist visas, as business people and students to bully expatriates, including some suspected of corruption, to return home.

CSIS warns China’s Operation Fox Hunt is targeting Canada’s Chinese community

The Canadian Security Intelligence Service says Beijing uses proxies to threaten Canada’s Chinese community in an effort to silence President Xi Jinping’s critics

www.theglobeandmail.com

Stike · Jan 9, 2021

There is barely a 100% protection against data leaking and data being captured.

It is basically an evaluation how secure (and how paranoid) you want to be. Tell us how secure you want to be, and then we can tell you what measures you should follow.

Unless your name is Edward Snowden or you are in close contact, you probably don't need to go full paranoid, for example.

To what extent can an app spy on you? I'm not concerned about advertising, more about government spying.

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