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To the doubters, how do you like the new FF7 Remake Combat?
- Thread starter JuanLatino
- Start date
Stagger is still a shitty shitty mechanic for battles. Stop doing it. It's not fun. XV while not as engaging had the right ideas with weapon types delineating critical damage.
also... The stagger system falters during boss fights imo. Bosses have phases, once you finally stagger them.. you end up moving on to the next phase without ever really going ham on them while they are staggered. The stagger gauge goes back to zero once you reach the next phase..this has happen to me quite a few times during boss fights.
I'm loving it. Reminds me so much of Mass Effect 1, which outside of the jank and lack of fluidity, it's still my favorite combat system of the trilogy.
As for FF7, it's a more refined version of that, and so far, I'm fine with not being able to command party members to Ofensive/Defensive positions.
Let's see how it holds up on Hard difficulty, but for now, highlight of the game for me.
As for FF7, it's a more refined version of that, and so far, I'm fine with not being able to command party members to Ofensive/Defensive positions.
Let's see how it holds up on Hard difficulty, but for now, highlight of the game for me.
The boss phase switching issue is a pretty glaring one. They really should have found a solution to this.
Then they shouldn't have put the free movement into it. Just make it a turn-based game instead of something that's kind of bad at being an action game and a turn-based RPG.
Yup. Happened to me every time I staggered Eligor - the next phase triggered and I didn't get to do any meaningful damage to him. The fight was fucking terrible.
It works very well if you stop clinging to the idea free movement can only exist in an action RPG.
The combat is very good.
Poll results disagree with you.
so what you are saying is the sequel is going to be akin to mass effect 2, more action orientated, less time in and menus and considered the greatest in the series? GOT IT
Haha, there's no chance this happens now they've nailed this system.
And, btw, I liked ME2 over ME1. :p
I was a major doubter since I thought XV was honestly one of the absolute worst action rpg systems and one of the worst battle systems in general I've ever played. Coupled with KH3 being kind of a clusterfuck and my massive preference for turn based or more traditional JRPG systems and yeah I was one of the biggest skeptics.
And I love it so far! It's actually amazingly fun as hell. Hard to compare since they're very different and I'm not ultimately finished yet but I might prefer it in the end. The difficulty curve is nice so far too.
I'm glad to eat crow here.
And I love it so far! It's actually amazingly fun as hell. Hard to compare since they're very different and I'm not ultimately finished yet but I might prefer it in the end. The difficulty curve is nice so far too.
I'm glad to eat crow here.
Oh god yes. If you could cancel attack animations I would probably forgive the rest, honestly.
Welll... it kinda is. Thats the problem (for some). It wants to be both.
It's a turn-based system with an action skin.
The turn based part is the dominant part which some people aren't seeing past the hack and slash.
Not really. This game already takes enough inspiration from Mass Effect 2, like the atrocious level design, and a feeling of linearity not very common in an RPG.
I do prefer the old battle system.
only to watch Aerith or Cloud just stand around for seconds at a time while the enemy would start attacking whoever I was playing as.
Also the Kingdom Hearts 2 magic system I am not a fan of. Everything is tied to an ATB gauge that only really moves when you are attacking or being attacked makes it a chore to decide what skill to even use because you may not even get a full gauge on that character for the rest of the battle. Looking at videos it appears that further along in the game this will change as characters get more weapon upgrades and materias that work like the "First Strike" materia from early on.
These are two of my major issues so far. The tunnel vision is insane, provoke was finally introduced so things may change but upset that I have to use one of my slots on it. Then having characters just stand around and do nothing for the majority of the battle is very wrong. In Chapter 8 and did the
Shiva battle
Also the Kingdom Hearts 2 magic system I am not a fan of. Everything is tied to an ATB gauge that only really moves when you are attacking or being attacked makes it a chore to decide what skill to even use because you may not even get a full gauge on that character for the rest of the battle. Looking at videos it appears that further along in the game this will change as characters get more weapon upgrades and materias that work like the "First Strike" materia from early on.
Well... then all tales of games are turn based with an action skin.
You are moving, you are dodging, you are attacking. If they are just a "skin", then they are pointless and come in the way of quick and direct menue navigation. If not, then it is a action based system.
You cant have your cake and eat it to.
I really enjoy it, there's a lot of depth and some of the fights are quite a challenge. I like that you'll end up dead quickly if you don't take into account the combat mechanics. As for the original's combat...meh...
It's not as good as Turn Based but at least it's not a complete disaster like the past Single Player FF games.
The combat is absolutely incredible. Seeing people in this thread complain about AI is so puzzling. You're supposed to issue the party's commands, just like in the old games. If you create a gambit system for this you miss half of the frenetic energy of battles.
you mean the game that lets you make your party static like normal? You can literally choose to not see the free moving part in that game. That is a terrible example.
They're action first though, this isn't. This is turn based first with action parts surrounding it.
You need to take turns switching characters to build ATB, you need to take turns with the enemies to damage them then block or dodge, you need to take a turn to heal damage or remove debuffs... the core of the original system is here the players in the battles are just mobile now.
Exactly.
It is great. But it needs some improvements. Like holi sheet honey bey bee, why cant you cancel the animation during combat? Like i need to defend and not waiting until the attack animation ends first.
It's a great example. The point wasn't that DQXI is an action game, it's that it's fine to have free movement while not being an action game.
Is it? And I'm not asking this to be a troll. I genuinely like the combat in both games, but I know most think the combat in 15 is shit. To me they seem very similar. Keep in mind that I haven't played 15 since release though. I beat it in a couple weeks and never touched it again, but when I played the demo for 7, I immediately thought it was kinda like 15's combat.
You can turn the free movement in DQXI off. I would happily turn the free movement off in this game, it adds nothing.
I've only played the demo. I liked that the combat involves actual strategy and patience. I'm not sure about the whole stagger mechanic though -- it's two different systems tacked together, pre-stagger and stagger. I liked figuring out the general staggering strategy during the demo but I'm not sure I'd like a full game of it.
I like it, but wish I had more time to play as characters that aren't Cloud. The boss fights with Roche and Reno are the highlights of the game so far.
I don't see any value in the comparison, though, it's apples and oranges. FF7 turn based combat was fine. FF7R action combat is fine. Both styles are going for completely different feels, and one isn't inherently superior
I don't see any value in the comparison, though, it's apples and oranges. FF7 turn based combat was fine. FF7R action combat is fine. Both styles are going for completely different feels, and one isn't inherently superior
That's actually not true in this game, spacing matters. You're just not going to get pinpoint precision evasion like you want.
Totally. It's one my main problems with the original VII, you can get through like 90% of encounters by just mashing attack. Not to say you can't do that in Remake but for most of the enemies and bosses beginning around Ch. 8 you do barely any damage and have to focus on stagger and elemental weaknesses instead.
It's good, but has issues. Team AI is dumb as shit, often just sitting on the field doing nothing. It makes it VERY hard to have characters run interference so you can do long range set ups. For a game that had a Front/Back system, they sure as hell have ai controlled characters do whatever the fuck they want.
Honestly it's not a problem until a certain boss
, it's actually quite fun to play the game as a lesser DMC styled game for most of it. But when enemies start ignoring blockstun, require fine tuned strategies, or are surrounded by adds so you can't have a meaningful 1v1, the combat system starts showing it's ass.
But it's still better than I imagined, and with a few revisions, I would be happy to play another mainline FF game in this style.
It adds a TON. With deadly dodge and elemental materia, I played the first 60% of the game like a low tier character action game. Other than some funky hitboxes, it was a ton of fun, though I felt like a lot of the early enemies couldn't keep up with the idea of where the combat system was trying to go.
But man, free movement in this game is a game changer. If you aren't dipping, dodging, parrying, counterhitting, counterparrying, you're playing the game wrong.
Honestly it's not a problem until a certain boss
Hell House
But it's still better than I imagined, and with a few revisions, I would be happy to play another mainline FF game in this style.
It adds a TON. With deadly dodge and elemental materia, I played the first 60% of the game like a low tier character action game. Other than some funky hitboxes, it was a ton of fun, though I felt like a lot of the early enemies couldn't keep up with the idea of where the combat system was trying to go.
But man, free movement in this game is a game changer. If you aren't dipping, dodging, parrying, counterhitting, counterparrying, you're playing the game wrong.
If I could turn off free movement and play this like the original VII I would love to.....the areas and the way its designed can still easily allow for a hard mode classic.
The classic mode that is there now is terrible and just makes everything so bad.
I agree. It just frustrates me when I get hit because I'm in the wrong spot. I'd much rather them have just balanced the damage enemies dealt to players. But that would require some well...balance. Which is clearly missing in a lot of these encounters..
They are absolutely useless. The only thing they know how to do is block and use an occasional attack. The auto-cure materia pretty much has to be on your main healer.
I just started back star ocean 5 and that fucking game has literally ever damn ai tendency you can set on your characters. It's kinda crazy to see the contrast in that aspect. Even some form of tendency or role would be helpful.
But pretty much need to monitor ATBs and switch from person to person then heal when needed.
I absolutely loved it, but I also really enjoy RTWP games, which Remake shares a lot of DNA with.
I also love the stagger system. I love the planning and execution behind setting up and carrying out a perfect "burn phase". It feels like slowly ramping the tension on a rubber band and then letting it go at the perfect moment.
I also love the stagger system. I love the planning and execution behind setting up and carrying out a perfect "burn phase". It feels like slowly ramping the tension on a rubber band and then letting it go at the perfect moment.
The AI in 7R is much more preferable than say some shitty Star Ocean or Tales game where they attack willy nilly and don't block/evade out of the most important attacks. And even then, a lot of the time in those games when you need a party member to do something the most, they're in some animation such as attacking or recoving, making the situation even worse
7R holding block, building up ATB in the process by blocking and evading MMO style big area attacks is perfect.
7R holding block, building up ATB in the process by blocking and evading MMO style big area attacks is perfect.
I really don't like how it can consume your ATB/MP/Limit bars if you get knocked just before they go off. Interrupting the character is fine. But losing the ATB bar for nothing is awful
I'd alter the ATB build up slightly too. Slow it down on attacks. It builds up pretty quick. But speed up ATB generation when idle or backing off and playing defensive
You can be in situations when you're on low health and someone is dead, and you have no bar. When on low health, instinct is to play cautiously. But if you don't attack, the bar won't build up, so you get somewhat stuck if that makes sense
Edit: Also not a fan of enemies targeting the player control character all the time. For examplr Aerith has insane magic damage, and Tifa is a Stagger machine. But having them laser towards me when controlling them isn't fun. Provoke doesn't work on bosses and Lifesaver isn't enough
I'd alter the ATB build up slightly too. Slow it down on attacks. It builds up pretty quick. But speed up ATB generation when idle or backing off and playing defensive
You can be in situations when you're on low health and someone is dead, and you have no bar. When on low health, instinct is to play cautiously. But if you don't attack, the bar won't build up, so you get somewhat stuck if that makes sense
Edit: Also not a fan of enemies targeting the player control character all the time. For examplr Aerith has insane magic damage, and Tifa is a Stagger machine. But having them laser towards me when controlling them isn't fun. Provoke doesn't work on bosses and Lifesaver isn't enough
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When I saw the first trailer I wasn't feeling the real-time elements and was hoping it would be more of a 1:1 battle system situation. I absolutely love this combat, probably my favorite in a Final Fantasy to date. It just feels so good. I love how the character switching makes you play the whole party.and they all play so differently which is way better than the original.
There is materia, Steadfast Block, that builds ATB on block. It's one of the best materia in the game.
Once I accepted that it was more of an RPG than an action game I was able to get really into it, but early on I was having my action gamed instincts punished every step of the way lol.
I love it now. Probably my favorite combat system in the series though it could use some tweaking still
I love it now. Probably my favorite combat system in the series though it could use some tweaking still
Magnify + Haste and Steadfast Block on everyone. Bam.
Good ATB generation while idle/blocking.
lIt's a fine base but it lacks polish and it feels like the developers didn't even play test their own game. The camera stinks. The game continuously switches which enemy you are targeting. It feels like every enemy can interrupt your attacks, not to mention they can generally attack faster than you. You're constantly being hit with shit off screen and the game makes excessive use of status stun locking and long lasting status effects. The because the enemy AI is programmed to attack whichever character the player is controlling, it makes playing as Aerith frustrating. You need to take control of her because the AI will do very little to raise her ATB gauge. But she attacks so slow she is very vulnerable when all the enemies are now targeting her.
Put all these together and you ultimately have a system that is unpolished. It feels like the enemies were not designed for the combat system they put in place. And that's a damn shame because there are many times when the combat is clicking and a lot of fun. But ultimately bullshit takes away from an experience no matter how fun the core system can be.
Put all these together and you ultimately have a system that is unpolished. It feels like the enemies were not designed for the combat system they put in place. And that's a damn shame because there are many times when the combat is clicking and a lot of fun. But ultimately bullshit takes away from an experience no matter how fun the core system can be.
Not if you need your Ai guys to run interference so you can charge up a few spells as Aerith. That shit gets REALLY bad, especially towards the end of the game where a lot of enemies have straight up teleports.
Like, the game has a provoke materia that, even at max level, DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK, and you can't manually trigger. The friendly AI in this game is atrocious.