Jesus some of the replies to that tweet. Got to hand it to Epic, they know how to weaponise their playerbase...
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Tim Sweeney reacts to Apples counter-suing
- Thread starter Chairmanchuck (另一个我)
- Start date
The shit he says about being open while he's trying to limit access to games by buying exclusives on PC. Fuck off Tim Sweeney.
I wonder how much revenue Epic has lost and player momentum because of all this.
Its not about siding with apple, it's about Tim sweeney being an unlikable rat.
I was using the analogy of McDonalds and Wal-Mart to highlight how stupid the argument is that Apple has a monopoly on Apples users, not that the actual businesses were directly comparable. Is consumers not leaving iOS because of "ecosystem lock in" really a well studied phenomenon with iOS customers or is it simply an argument Epic brings forth in their suit? Logistically it seems like the longer you're in an ecosystem, the more invested you're going to be in it, but that happens with... literally every ecosystem and if a company REALLY does something you don't like you would leave that ecosystem, investment be damned (most likely evidenced by the mass Xbox One exodus at the start of the gen)
Yes anti competitive behavior is illegal, but not all monopolies are illegal.
"A monopoly is when a company has exclusive control over a good or service in a particular market. Not all monopolies are illegal. For example, businesses might legally corner their market if they produce a superior product or are well managed. Antitrust law doesn't penalize successful companies just for being successful. Competitors may be at a legitimate disadvantage if their product or service is inferior to the monopolist's.
But monopolies are illegal if they are established or maintained through improper conduct, such as exclusionary or predatory acts. This is known as anticompetitive monopolization."
Last edited:
I have.
"the exclusive possession or control of the supply of or trade in a commodity or service."
Since the appstore is the only store on an iphone device, I will say that is a monopoly. On pc there is EGS, Steam, Gog and others. Apple is also the manufacturer which has shipped the most devices in 2020. Even beating Samsung. It is not about the phones or Apple made products. It is about the app store.
It is a monopoly and I don't like it.
I honestly cannot think of anything else, but by reading a few more posts it looks like that the whole idea of "Apple's monopoly" doesn't really stand on any ground, so yeah the whole argument is bogus
That makes sense, console manufacturers would have to deal with a marketplace more like the Steam one, I'm not sure if that would be a bad thing though.
Even if legally there's no monopoly, personally I'll never like the idea of anything as big as Apple to have so much control over content and business practices (there is a lot more than the 30% cut they dictate about how apps have to shape their business model)
I have no words.
Looks like Tim Sweeney is saying that EGS is going to end exclusivity (Steam exlcusion) contracts.... Oh wait, not him just other stores.
I would argue many of Apple's policies regarding the App Store are bad for competition even if it wasn't the only store available. See Apple not allowing 3rd parties to direct users to websites resulting in apps like the Kindle app being unable to buy books on iOS despite once having that function and still having it on Android. For that example specifically we know from the July Senate committee that Steve Jobs was personally involved in that change and he and other higher ups at Apple saw the Kindle app's cross platform benefits as being a threat to Apple's ebooks.
I'm not sure it would be awful either, I'm just responding to claims that other ecosystems would somehow be unaffected by the precedent set in the (very unlikely imo) case that Epic wins their monopoly argument in the context of just iOS.
Please elaborate on why he's "stupid" and remember it's not just him doing this I imagine, it's his team.
Because Epic isn't taking a stand for anything, and there's no reason for anyone to be swayed or convinced by their brazenly embarrassing and patronizing signaling. It's just a couple of billionaires fighting over money. That's it. If the courts upheld Apple's decision to ban Epic from iOS and cut off all business relations so Epic could no longer be a player in that market, do you honestly think they'd continue with the antitrust suit just to benefit everyone else? Fuck no. They'd be out in a heartbeat.
You can think about Sweeney's motives all you want, and sure, they'll make more money but we should not forget the huge level of power and control Apple have in this space. iOS has transcended "one dudes idea" and is ubiquitous now. Imagine if MS tried to ask for money from all PC transactions..............Sure, there's a higher percent of PC vs mac/linux than iphones vs samsung/other but you get the point.
If you want to make mobile games you almost certainly have to put it on Apple's store and for that privilege you have to give them 30% of everything. Don't get me wrong, I think the console platforms need a slap upside the head on this too.
Half of his Tweets read like he keeps forgetting that the EGS is a real thing and exists. Something he has in common with most other PC players.
Sweeney having a Twitter tantrum, as per.
Apple suck, but Epic sucks harder. Gonna enjoy watching them lose - I hope Apple takes them to the cleaners.
Apple suck, but Epic sucks harder. Gonna enjoy watching them lose - I hope Apple takes them to the cleaners.
Arent they presenting Sweeneys tweets in court. You would think the lawyers would have taken it away by now.
I have bad news for you: it's monopolies all the way down. Name a thing, I can probably define it as a monopoly, everything from my local pizza shop (who has a monopoly on selling pizza out of their storefront), to your own body hair (you have a monopoly on creating your body hair).
I'm on "Apple's side" in so much that I think Apple and the people who choose to buy their devices should be free to have their walled garden. This isn't something that Apple suddenly institued yesterday. This is what the iPhone has always been. Arguably, it is its most defining attribute vs Android. Its baked into the branding of what these devices are. And anyone that doesn't want a device like that has a ton of alternative options that are cheaper and more accessible. options that do everything Apple does and everything people are asking Apple to do. Smartphones are a modern necessity but iPhones are not.
Sweeney's entire thing feels like some giant Libertarian wankfest.
I fucking hate EGS but I don't get the EGS comparisons. EGS does nothing to intrude on developer rights, whatever you may think they are. EGS doesn't have a majority of the PC customer base, the PAYING PC customer base, or any other special stranglehold over developer's abilities to distribute their work. The only thing EGS has is deals that developers and publishers enter through entirely of their own accord and specifically for their benefit because they get paid the big bucks to do it. Whoever the loser is in that relationship, it's not the devs or pubs making the deals.
I like Apple phones but could do without the walled garden nature. That's certainly not their selling point to me.
What? We can totally install games on our device (PC) outside of EGS...
Tim Sweeney is such a loathsome and hypocritical man that I want to see him get his comeuppance even if it's for bad reasons.
So best case scenario then, Apple is forced to open up iOS to sideloading and Epic loses the countersuit?
No, we all understand that epic is doing this to make more money. If you are falling for Sweeney's bullshit I just feel bad for you.
Well that's your argument, I don't really agree with it. Personally, I think Apple should be able to dictate whatever it likes on their device and their platform. I don't like that idea at all which is why I've never owned an Apple product, but at the very least it's their right and users and developers alike understand that's what they're signing up for and enjoy it going by the US sales numbers. They want to sell the user a curated store, that's the product they are selling, for better or for worse. I really don't know about the incident you're referring to with Steve Jobs or what it means so I won't comment on it.
Overall I was just trying to convey that, monopolies arn't necessarily illegal, the idea that Apple has a monopoly on Apple users and their own appstore is a ridiculously laughable notion and lastly that I don't think Epic has any legal leg to stand on here with their claims (this shouldn't be right, the appstore is an essential facility! vs. you breached this contract you signed here bud.) Anyone who agrees with Epic, more power to you.
I could do without it too.. but I still believe they are entitled to it. Its just one of those pro/con things for me to consider when its time to buy a new phone.
He may be unlikable. He may be a rat. But if they win, developers of all sizes win with them.
he really has no idea how ridiculous that reads
maybe he does
but at the end of the day he is no different than apple because if he could have his way apple would be selling their software on the epic store giving him money
greedy greedsters greedn
maybe he does
but at the end of the day he is no different than apple because if he could have his way apple would be selling their software on the epic store giving him money
greedy greedsters greedn
No, small devs don't necessarily win, because what Epic is proposing is to have developers pay per download fees which would literally destroy the free app ecosystem.
From Apple's counter-suit:
At this point reading about the ongoing courtroom antics between these two companies makes me think of the Jean Claude Van Damme dancing gif. I want to tune it out until it's all over and see where the chips fall, but everywhere I turn on social media it's there.
I'll say it's rich that Sweeny is complaining about anti-competitive stores when he secures products away from an actual, real, feature-rich digital platform by throwing money at publishers while his own product seems like the beta of a launcher from 2005.
I'll say it's rich that Sweeny is complaining about anti-competitive stores when he secures products away from an actual, real, feature-rich digital platform by throwing money at publishers while his own product seems like the beta of a launcher from 2005.
It's about the "without being herded through a single centrally planned, anti-competitive store." which is exactly what the EGS is trying to be.
Also we know from cases where the Pubs decided to take the exclusivity deals (and pocket all money) without even consulting the Devs who were opposing such a decision. Taking the EGS deals also have more strings attached to them than just removing your choice of where and when you want to release your game.
Also using the "creators have rights" argument while your company is known to steal from creators without crediting / paying them is kinda hypocritical, isn't it?
You could easily replace "AppStore" and "Apple" with "EGS" and "Epic" in most of his tweets and the tweets would have the same truth to it.
