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Feb 23, 2019
1,426
Again, stop.
The Chinese Epic Tech Lead already debunked this.
The higher speed of PS5 SSD is not necessary to run it the way you saw it.

A 970 Evo on PC or the XSX SSD (which will be even better) are more than enough today.

We're arguing about two different things.

UE5 does not require PS5's SSD speeds to run scaled versions of demos. I agree with that, which is what the Chinese Unreal Lead said based on the translation

Tim, however, said very specifically that the demo was optimized for PS5's SSD speeds, allowing them to display/stream in more detail than what current I/O limitations on the marker are bound by, and that the level of detail was only achievable by Sony's I/O solution.

"[The PS5] puts a vast amount of flash memory very, very close to the processor. So much that it really fundamentally changes the trade-offs that games can make and stream in. And that's absolutely critical to this kind of demo. This is not just a whole lot of polygons and memory. It's also a lot of polygons being loaded every frame as you walk around through the environment and this sort of detail you don't see in the world would absolutely not be possible at any scale without these breakthroughs that Sony's made."
 

Deleted member 25128

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
656
No need, you can just read this very topic for first page to last, to begin with.

Or even worse, you can dig deep into the official ones opened last week.

Just gone through the first page and to be fair 100% of the comments seem to be fair and considered or sensible, no crazy console warrior stuff, the only thing they point out is what streaming fidelity will the Sony SSD improve over other competitors, and people are asking that as a questioning point.

So not sure what you are trying to push the agenda that lots of people on this thread are saying otherwise... because it doesn't look that way. Just because people might not agree with your opinions, I dont think its worth getting all wound up about it.

I think everyone is interested to see what benefits both consoles bring to the table, they are similar but different in approach, will that approach make any difference to how they are perceived we dont know...
 

tzare

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,145
Catalunya
No need, you can just read this very topic for first page to last, to begin with.

Or even worse, you can dig deep into the official ones opened last week.
This thread for example: nobody has said such a thing.
And haven't followed all the threads regarding UE5 demo, but while someone may occasionally say what you claim, it hasn't been lots, unless you think that, discussing the last part of the demo, when the protagonist is flying at high speed, and the possibility of benefiting from high ssd speeds to stream assets and data.. and linking that to one of the most talked ps5 strengths, and obviously speculating if that could have different performance/differences with XsX not so fast SSD equals to spreading misinformation.
 
Feb 23, 2019
1,426
Again, it is not.
It was already replicated exactly like that on a damn laptop...

The translation doesn't mention that the demo was run 100% identically to the PS5 in every single way. You're reading too much into it. It's no different than saying UE4 can run on Switch, Xbox One, or Xbox One X. Yes, it can, but there will be compromises depending on what the hardware is capable of.

Just like how on the PC you can adjust settings, turn detail options off, and you will get different performance.
 

CanisMajoris

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
890
Thank you Lead Chinese Epic Engineer for answering what I had questions about regarding the demo. Too bad the market nda Epic signed with Sony forbids them to say anything more on the western front.


Regarding UE5, its not only reasonable to assume 2080 will look better than a 2070. Its obvious. Nothing disingenous about stating facts.

By looking better you mean run at higher resolution? because you'll still be getting below 1600p on XSX as well and if this specific demo version fully utilities PS5 SSD to push as much geometry and texture details as possible per frame, which Epic suggests that it is, than you are not getting the same visual quality on XSX, even it if runs at marginally higher resolution.

So no, games on 2080 looking better than on 2070 is not a good example at all in this case and calling a performance winner without comparing both outputs is totally disingenuous.

This demo was a showcase of what an ultra fast storage can do from a visual perspective, there are multitude of quotes on why and how that is the case from Epic devs including CEO, as well as suggestion that the engine is scalable enough to alter quality settings to run on different hardware. you can totally ignore them though, makes more entertaining uneducated arguments.
 

Joo

Member
May 25, 2018
3,877
People were not saying it can't run at all but if course there was this "it could run very different": https://www.resetera.com/threads/nx...ts-to-come-tech-analysis.205554/post-34112280
Okay, well to some extent I can understand talking points like that with the info we had/have, because it's certainly likely that the consoles will show a difference with the ssd performance and real-world situations in the future, and imo speculation regarding that is kinda justified.

It's still very different to people stating that it can't run on XSX, which OP pretty much stated as the reason for creating this whole thread. I just hope that people don't encourage console wars by making threads like this.
 

N.Domixis

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,208
So just got reading through all the posts. Putting the fanboy part of me aside and seeing this from a third perspective.
Ps5 will have certain advantages.
Xbox X will have certain advantages.

The PS5 SSD advantage is 100%?
The Xbox GPU advantage is 18%?

I'm just laughing. Games will look so similar it doesn't even matter?
 

Bradbatross

Member
Mar 17, 2018
14,219
We're arguing about two different things.

UE5 does not require PS5's SSD speeds to run scaled versions of demos. I agree with that, which is what the Chinese Unreal Lead said based on the translation

Tim, however, said very specifically that the demo was optimized for PS5's SSD speeds, allowing them to display/stream in more detail than what current I/O limitations on the marker are bound by, and that the level of detail was only achievable by Sony's I/O solution.
This was a paid advertisement by Sony... Obviously the Series X would achieve the same results or better.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,447
This part is very interesting:

"The Unreal Engine 5 demo on PlayStation 5 was the culmination of years of discussions between Sony and Epic on future graphics and storage architectures."

So Epic has contribuited to the PS5 Development and UE5 has been developped with the PS5 in mind. 🤔
It doesn't sound at all as a only-marketing deal to me.

lmao

indeed, a next gen engine was made with next gen devices and hardware in mind
 

AshenOne

Member
Feb 21, 2018
6,108
Pakistan
Tim stating the demo was tailored to the PS5 or would not be possible without the PS5's IO capabilities is not the same as him saying it couldn't run on other platforms with similar IO or SSD capabilities.

I mean, the original article literally states the following.

"While Epic wouldn't comment on any potential performance differences between the PS5 and Xbox Series X, Sweeney confirmed that the features shown today, like real-time global illumination and virtualized geometry, are "going to work on all the next-generation consoles.""

We also don't know whether the exact same version of this demo, with all the same fidelity, settings, draw distance, asset streaming etc, was running on this gaming laptop.

Without further context, it is stupid to call Tim a liar, especially when he already stated these features would scale to other platforms.
Well I called him a liar and a hypocrite based on his past behavior which all started way back when he started criticizing MS for their closed system and restrictions with with UWP and other stuff MS was doing at that time and he seemed an advocate for open architectures and open systems and then months or a year later he came with EGS and started making multi plats exclusives(timed but 12 months) and restricting consumers choice big time. He's from then onwards continued his spin of words on his twitter and if you follow him there you'll see all the evidence there. Recently while giving a DICE keynote he spoke some outrageous things regarding gamer culture and how gamer's rights need to be protected.

And regarding the Demo like i said, what i said is purely hypothetical if the info thats roughly translated is all factual. The demo was being initially marketed as such how it was only possible in its current shape and form on the PS5 exclusively which MIGHT not be the case possibly.

So what iam meaning to say is that while the PS5 is faster than the high end PCs and XsX in terms of I/O and storage capabilities... believing his words such as 'God-tier storage system or PS5 is far far ahead of PCs in that regard' are pure marketing and shouldn't be taken to heart because it might be exactly the case since if such a difference can be covered in a year or a bit more than thats not exactly far ahead for me.
 

Deleted member 20297

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,943
By looking better you mean run at higher resolution? because you'll still be getting below 1600p on XSX as well and if this specific demo version fully utilities PS5 SSD to push as much geometry and texture details as possible per frame, which Epic suggests that it is, than you are not getting the same visual quality on XSX, even it if runs at marginally higher resolution.

So no, games on 2080 looking better than 2070 is not a good example at all in this case and calling a performance winner without comparing both outputs is totally disingenuous.

This demo was a showcase of what an ultra fast storage can do from a visual perspective, there are multitude of quotes on why and how that is the case from Epic devs including CEO, as well as suggestion that the engine is scalable enough to alter quality settings to run on different hardware. you can totally ignore them though, makes more entertaining uneducated arguments.
The main purpose on this demo, lumen and nanite, especially scale well on compute, as per DF. Nobody says fast storage is not required but the question was whether it needed ps5 SSD spec. And now it seems it doesn't. The purpose of the demo was not to show off fast storage.
 
Last edited:

sncvsrtoip

Banned
Apr 18, 2019
2,773
Fair enough, it's just that I have that in my cubase PC that wasn't even all that expensive, and it's in the Epic engineer's notebook. It's at least evidence enough that visuals seen in the demo doesn't need some crazy expensive future drive which I think some was worried about, it works on already-on-the-shelf gear. And just think about what a 3000 serie NV GPU could add if this can already run at 40+ fps on a notebook! :o
Laptop rtx 2080 is near 2070super level so it's not typical notebook ;)
 

Sydle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,280
So just got reading through all the posts. Putting the fanboy part of me aside and seeing this from a third perspective.
Ps5 will have certain advantages.
Xbox X will have certain advantages.

The PS5 SSD advantage is 100%?
The Xbox GPU advantage is 18%?

I'm just laughing. Games will look so similar it doesn't even matter?

The bolded is what we were hearing before any tech specs were revealed. Console warriors gonna do their thing to make their preferred piece of plastic better.
 

Mass Effect

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 31, 2017
16,793
Nice to hear direct confirmation. Unreal 5 having amazing tech is something everyone can get behind.

Basically all I want now for my PC, is an Nvidia videocard that can run those type of visuals at 1440p 60fps, this will look amazing with DLSS 2.0. It will also be really interesting to see how this tech scales with NVMe bandidth and GPU/CPU.

Yep, this is what I look forward to the most. Tech like UE5 + DLSS 2.0 is going to be a godsend.
 

Expy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,865
We knew it was a multi-platform engine from the getgo. It's Unreal Engine for crying out loud. They even said it can be scaled back to run on current-gen (the engine).
 

Deleted member 25128

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
656
I'm just laughing. Games will look so similar it doesn't even matter?

Exactly, it was hard enough for people to spot the differences this gen.

For me the big question is how hard next gen Sony and MS have gone. Will MS's concept of no more generations end up biting them, or is it just a term that they have latched to for marketing purposes. Will transition over to a new gen be quick or long, will the previous console launches issues of new games being slow out of the gate... how long will it take for MS's new studios take to bring quality output... are the consoles easy to develop for.... will studios be able to get the benefits out quickly....so many different variables that will have much more an impact on the quality of the games than the differences people are currently fighting over.
 
Feb 23, 2019
1,426
This was a paid advertisement by Sony... Obviously the Series X would achieve the same results or better.

That's still unknown at this point. The GPU/CPU hardware of the two consoles is very close, and the SSD speeds have a much larger difference in comparison. Is rendering at a higher resolution, but with less detail, achieving the same results or better?

In the end, as Matt said, there will be tradeoffs and advantages for each platform. Some game engines may be better suited for XSX, some may be better on PS5. But you cannot make the blanket claim that XSX will run everything equally or better when it does not have equal or better hardware in every aspect, particularly one as crucial and large as SSDs.

As of now, my opinion is that XSX will have a resolution advantage, while PS5 will have a detail/diversity of asset advantage on average, with those differences being larger if the games are highly optimized for one platform or another. It's an interesting situation to have because the previous gen was far more directly comparable, this gen it will not be.
 

Corine

Member
Nov 8, 2017
870
Yup pretty obvious from the start any next gen console could run that or decent PC now. Could tell that just from watching it.
 

Deleted member 20297

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,943
Okay, well to some extent I can understand talking points like that with the info we had/have, because it's certainly likely that the consoles will show a difference with the ssd performance and real-world situations in the future, and imo speculation regarding that is kinda justified.

It's still very different to people stating that it can't run on XSX, which OP pretty much stated as the reason for creating this whole thread. I just hope that people don't encourage console wars by making threads like this.
Let's be honest: it will happen. Threads and posts from all parties. People will likely not agree on what is justified or not because nobody is really objective in these topics. I would hope it's different but I know it won't be.
 

UnsungKing

Member
Dec 31, 2019
334
Again, there are zero of those.

But unfortunately there were a lot of "it can be only done with PS5 SSD" nonsense instead...
Yeah Sony's marketing is doing a great job at keeping the underpowered talk away from their console. Have people falling for the "secret weapon" SSD. They have a good console, no need to exaggerate certain aspects.
 

CanisMajoris

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
890
The main purpose on this demo, lumen and nanite, especially scale well on compute, as per DF. Nobody says far storage is not required but the question was whether it needed ps5 SSD spec. And now it seems it doesn't. The purpose of the demo was not to show off fast storage.

"I think, first of all, Sony has a massive, massive increase in graphics performance compared to previous generations. But you know, I guess we get that every generation?" Sweeney joked. "But Sony's made another breakthrough that in many ways is more fundamental, which is a multi-order magnitude increase in storage bandwidth and reduction in storage latency."

"[The PS5] puts a vast amount of flash memory very, very close to the processor," says Sweeney. "So much that it really fundamentally changes the trade-offs that games can make and stream in. And that's absolutely critical to this kind of demo," Sweeney explained.

"This is not just a whole lot of polygons and memory. It's also a lot of polygons being loaded every frame as you walk around through the environment and this sort of detail you don't see in the world would absolutely not be possible at any scale without these breakthroughs that Sony's made.
"

Demo obviously runs on other hardware, but not on the same settings.

You can have marketing by attaching your name to certain product or showcase, but the quotes above seem pretty genuine to me.
 

Deleted member 20297

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,943
Then why isn't Sony advertising it?
Wait, what? You think Sony was not noticed by Epic that they were showing their demo mentioning PS5? In the interview they mentioned PS5 and avoid mentioning XSX because that's just how it is? There was no need for TV advertisements, social media was full of UE5 on PS5 and if you believe that Sony had no saying in that then you can believe that but I don't. I don't even think it's a big problem to do so in the end, that's just typical marketing nowadays, in a time where companies buy exclusive marketing rights so the competition isn't even mentioned, although the games so release on other platforms.
 

PennyStonks

Banned
May 17, 2018
4,401
That Sweeney quote could be the truth even if the Xbox had 4x the IO performance of the PS5. Its about comparing HDD to NVME SSDs with custom controllers.
 
OP
OP
P40L0

P40L0

Member
Jun 12, 2018
7,628
Italy
The main purpose on this demo, lumen and nanite, especially scale well on compute, as per DF. Nobody says far storage is not required but the question was whether it needed ps5 SSD spec. And now it seems it doesn't. The purpose of the demo was not to show off fast storage.
Exactly.
Still some people insist on talking about downgrades from PS5 version, especially the flying part which would be inevitably "scaled down" to XSX or High-end PCs with slower SSDs on paper.

It just won't now, after we had the confirmation directly by Epic that PS5 speed rates are not necessary to run it like that. (yeah, not just "run it" in abstract terms, no one was talking about iPads here)

We all just need to deal with this (obvious) reality check, and move on.
But it seems so hard for some.
 

tzare

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,145
Catalunya
Wait, what? You think Sony was not noticed by Epic that they were showing their demo mentioning PS5? In the interview they mentioned PS5 and avoid mentioning XSX because that's just how it is? There was no need for TV advertisements, social media was full of UE5 on PS5 and if you believe that Sony had no saying in that then you can believe that but I don't. I don't even think it's a big problem to do so in the end, that's just typical marketing nowadays, in a time where companies buy exclusive marketing rights so the competition isn't even mentioned, although the games so release on other platforms.
Obviously Sony was involved, just not directly. It is like when DF showcased XSX, that was also some kind of commercial deal. Nobody does things for free, everyone expects something in return. Also didn't MS appear on Amd rdna2 gpu presentations?
 

christocolus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,932
Phil spencer said there's lots of synergy between the teams. They are able to share tricks techniques workarounds and efficiencies in regards to the engine itself. Pretty cool.
The Coalition will lead the pack and all the others will follow. :) I really can't wait to see what they do with UE5 on next gen hardware..
 

imapioneer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,057

Virtual Geometry Images

Geometry images are one of those ideas so simple you ask yourself "Why didn't I think of this?" I'll admit it isn't the topic of much discu...

Animated object or character is possible but not in this version of the engine.



But you can't do vegetation or fences.
That's great to know we might see something like this on characters in the near future!
 

CrispyGamer

Banned
Jan 4, 2020
2,774
Wait, what? You think Sony was not noticed by Epic that they were showing their demo mentioning PS5? In the interview they mentioned PS5 and avoid mentioning XSX because that's just how it is? There was no need for TV advertisements, social media was full of UE5 on PS5 and if you believe that Sony had no saying in that then you can believe that but I don't. I don't even think it's a big problem to do so in the end, that's just typical marketing nowadays, in a time where companies buy exclusive marketing rights so the competition isn't even mentioned, although the games so release on other platforms.

Sony didn't even tweet about it! This whole notion that the ONLY reason Epic showed it on PS5 because of marketing and not because of what Tim Sweeney said to summarize "we've been working with Sony for years on their SSD solution to optimize UE5 and as far as this component we worked with them closer than Microsoft" but nope it's ONLY marketing....of course this demo can run on Series X and if people actually listened to the interview after the demo they would have heard Sweeney mentioned it runs on all next gen devices and also scales down to IOS and Android this thread is pointless and only made to stoke more flames for the console wars instead of talking about the capabilities of both Series X and PS5...
 

Black_Stride

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
7,389
No. There is dedicated silicon on both consoles that help with decompression. One uses Kraken, the other one at least zlib.

DirectStorage brings hardware decompression to Windows.
And the processors we got are alot more powerful so hardware decompression isnt really something to worry about.

DirectStorage
– DirectStorage is an all new I/O system designed specifically for gaming to unleash the full performance of the SSD and hardware decompression. It is one of the components that comprise the Xbox Velocity Architecture. Modern games perform asset streaming in the background to continuously load the next parts of the world while you play, and DirectStorage can reduce the CPU overhead for these I/O operations from multiple cores to taking just a small fraction of a single core; thereby freeing considerable CPU power for the game to spend on areas like better physics or more NPCs in a scene. This newest member of the DirectX family is being introduced with Xbox Series X and we plan to bring it to Windows as well.
 

Thiago

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,671
User Banned (3 Days): Trolling; Prior Infractions for the Same
lmao, the PS5 SSD speed bringing so much insecurity to a lot of people. Super funny to watch.
 

Domcorleone

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,191
So let me get this straight, MS has:

~18% GPU advantage
~10% CPU advantage

PS has

100% SSD advantage

MS's advantage is significant enough of a difference to have a discernible difference but Sony as no advantage despite a twice as fast SSD?

I just want to understand the facts of the situation...