• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Iron Eddie

Banned
Nov 25, 2019
9,812
Does anyone remember the Cell architecture in PS3 and how incredible it was?

I think the trouble with these discussions is that no one knows anything. There is just enough information out there to make dangerous assumptions.

There aren't real discussions to be had because we don't have enough data. "Wait and see" isn't all that fun for folks.
Sony learned from that which is why Cerny showed the timeline of getting developers up to speed in comparison. They know the difficulty was a downfall for game development. Thankfully Sony has moved on from their proprietary engines but of course they are going to fixate on the SSD (and 3D audio) because that is what sets them apart. Now the question is how many developers are going to fully maximize those features other than internal studios and will it make as much difference as Sony is trying to market it as?

Well the difference this time around is that basically all the developers are considering it to be an extremely big deal and most important aspect of next gen hardware next to the CPU.
Well yeah, the baseline for PC needs to be higher. Most game development is multiplatform, so of course they want PC to move along as well.
 

Arkham

Member
Nov 12, 2017
322

Minimum spec is Amiga 1000.

amiga_juggler.gif
 

Mad_Rhetoric

Banned
May 7, 2019
3,466
lol it was always obvious that Unreal 5 is of course supporting both consoles, who actually though this was 'ps exclusive'?
 

Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
4,931
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
It's not undermining PS5 at all, don't worry about the fanboy noise. And that's the advantage of consoles, getting the best value performance to buck. And even if both next gen consoles are $500, that's still insane value for the tech that's on offer.

But you're wrong about the CPU, laptop CPUs are the much slower mobile variants. PS5 and XSX have full fat Zen2 - which is amazing (Jaguar was basically a mobile processor). Also I'd imagine most gaming laptops only have 16gb btw.
I would not say the consoles are all too different from mobile ryzen in some aspects... Desktop CPUs have frequency and other things.
 

DSP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,120
And people saying that this demo would "run and look better on XSX" are just as disingenuous as the ones suggesting that it won't run on XSX at all.

Why? It has a better GPU and faster memory, it would be shocking if it can't run it better. Now how much better, that is up in the air. It is just the predictable outcome, there is nothing disingenuous about it.

ok, evo plus 970 1tb used in this latop is 200 pounds

Samsung is overpriced. Buy XPG instead, same performance for ~60% of the cost.
 

Lewpy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,210
a multiplatform engine escalates with hardware. Hardware has multiple parts, cpu,gpu,ram,ssd and others. I think it's safe to assume that if epic has worked with Sony, which would make sense since Cerny has been approaching devs for a while, and that would include middleware providers, the engine will also adapt if needed to use the ssd benefits on ps5.
If this applies to this demo, we don't really know, this later article seems to suggest that ssd is not limiting the performance (however some minimal speed seems to be needed, 3.5GB/s maybe?, that is above uncompressed performance on XsX ssd for example.
I'm sure high end PC's will get there sooner than later, of maybe some already are.
But dismissing a key design objective on one of the next gen consoles arguing that will only be useful for loading times feels a little... well, underestimating it at the very least. Which, when compared to the constant overestimating of the closest difference in raw gpu power in a long time is also, interesting to say the least.
You must be talking to someone else, because I've never said or insinuated what you are implying.
 

MysteryM

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,749
Sure it will work like a charm on a xsx.

Only that the in the flight scene she would either only fly at half the speed or the assets/details would be lower quality.

The xsx has rougly half of the ssd speed of the ps5 and the assets need to be loaded from the ssd into the ram, etc. at a really high speed. That's what sweeney meant when he said this was a demo for the ps5.

But a xsx demo would look almost as good. On xsx the demo would run @ 1660p ( 15% over 1440p of the ps5 demo) so that's a plus for xbox.

I believe that the speed advantage isn't going to be used much from 3rd party titles outside of maybe using slightly higher assets on ps5. Xsx will have almost as good assets but with a 15% higher game resolution.

Given no one knows anything about memory/cpu/gpu/io utilisation for this demo this is pure fan fiction.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,507
Why? It has a better GPU and faster memory, it would be shocking if it can't run it better. Now how much better, that is up in the air. It is just the predictable outcome, there is nothing disingenuous about it.



Samsung is overpriced. Buy XPG instead, same performance for ~60% of the cost.

The faster SSD in the PS5 may make a difference as well, but we have no idea yet. Will have to wait and see in the end, but no definitive statement can be made about that yet.
 

Zelas

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,020
At some point you reach the shit is flying by the screen so fast you can't even see it speed, and then what difference does it make if the textures are 8k or dynamically dropped to 4k at that point?

It doesn't sound like this demo even comes close to saturating the XSX SSD, so something way more complex and faster should be possible on that as well.

And ultimately when the camera is flying so fast that you can't really make anything out anyway, I don't think anyone is going to notice the texture quality of something that's on the screen for around 1/60th a second.
Is that the ONLY method to fully tax an SSD? Even if it were, a dense and populated city vs what we saw in the demo alone would seem more demanding.

Epic said themselves what they showcased wasn't that demanding of an SSD. So yes, current pc high end could handle it just fine but this isnt the peak of console SSD. Especially if the engineer is right about the 970 Evo Plus which afaik isnt the peak of PC gaming SSDs itself.

The UE5 demo doesnt answer all the questions in that particular area if the XSX is the lowest common denominator. I'm not sure if the questions are even worth asking/answering if by launch both will be surpassed by new PC entries according to Sony and Epic.
 

tzare

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,145
Catalunya
Smart move by Sony, they realized there is a large majority who would think this is demo is not possible on a Xbox.
Well, just because Sony didn't mention it many also believe that ps5 gpu won't support rdna2 features XSX does. This goes both ways.

Why? It has a better GPU and faster memory, it would be shocking if it can't run it better. Now how much better, that is up in the air. It is just the predictable outcome, there is nothing disingenuous about it.
It has a faster gpu and 10GB of faster ram, not 16GB. It should do some things better for sure, on paper. The ssd on ps5 should also allow to do some things better. We just don't know which ones and by how much
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,143
Why? It has a better GPU and faster memory, it would be shocking if it can't run it better. Now how much better, that is up in the air. It is just the predictable outcome, there is nothing disingenuous about it.



Samsung is overpriced. Buy XPG instead, same performance for ~60% of the cost.

The question is how much of the SSD speed \ Sony SSD set up help with certain aspects .
If running better mean better res sure but we need to know more about the engine .
Most likely the case that both system will advantages in certain aspects .
 

Joo

Member
May 25, 2018
3,881
I just think that at the start of next-gen, PS5's faster ssd will mainly show in how seamless the system and everything is, and as the tech demo didn't even max it out, it will take a while for the differences to actually show in games compared to XSX.
 

Bjones

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,622
It so weird that people think the ps5 will perform same/better than hardware that is quite a bit more powerful. In the end I don't think it's going to matter or even show that much because we are entering a budget/time/skill limit. But it's still odd.

Though I guess the idea of secret sauce is very enticing. I would love for the ps5 to have something that is a visible tangible difference. Like SNES having rotation and scaling back in the day.
 

Ocarina_117

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,572
Your post was in response to a point about PS fans having a persecution complex regarding the State of Play, but in the Xbox OT. In other words, a similar sort of cross thread console warring you're ridiculing the other poster of in here.
Again, I made my post after clearly stating, multiple times, why several aspects of the demo disappointed me to be told I was making up shit to hate on the game - which is getting defensive over the demo.

How is that similar to the bait post itt saying "take a peep in certain thread and laugh at posters laughing.gif"
 

CanisMajoris

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
890
Why? It has a better GPU and faster memory, it would be shocking if it can't run it better. Now how much better, that is up in the air. It is just the predictable outcome, there is nothing disingenuous about it.

Because this particular demo with shown fidelity settings was heavy on storage configuration by the Epic developer's words. And only 10gb of RAM is faster on XSX, 6gb is slower. PS5 GPU has dedicated hardware to reduce bandwidth needs as well, so let's not make conclusions about memory performance yet.

Nanite is heavy on compute so you won't be getting much higher resolution than 1440p on XSX either with more pixel sized micorpolygons, it'll be in 1500-1600 range. Details, texture resolution, asset quality and variate, especially at high speeds? anyone's guess about the performance there, but my bet is on PS5.

The fact that all those setting can be scaled well across different hardware is what makes this discussion pretty dumb until we can make direct comparisons.
 

Lukas Taves

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,713
Brazil
Well the difference this time around is that basically all the developers are considering it to be an extremely big deal and most important aspect of next gen hardware next to the CPU.
Yeah for both consoles.

Both Sony and Ms looked at a problem and found two different ways to solve it, it's not a case of something that was a priority for one and not the other. You have to take into consideration that consoles are targeted 2-3 years on advance based on what they bet is going to be the next big thing.

So u would say it's perfectly reasonable to think that Sony went with a more straight forward solution, while Ms perhaps because they wanted to push a unified api bet on virtual addressing being more well adopted which brings the bandwidth requirements down.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,673
The Milky Way
I would not say the consoles are all too different from mobile ryzen in some aspects... Desktop CPUs have frequency and other things.
Good point tbf. Do we know of any differences between the PS5/XSX CPUs and Zen 7 series, aside from the frequency? Could there be differences in cache size etc? The cheapest Zen 7 right now is £300, seems crazy that we might be seeing £300 CPU performance in next gen consoles. Especially considering where we were last gen. Or even the gen before when 360's CPU could only execute in-order operations.
 

cjn83

Banned
Jul 25, 2018
284
Wait, why is this a big revelation? The architectures of the two nextgen consoles are very similar, of course the engine will run great on both.

The question was whether the demo can run on the Series X without too hard concessions, since it can only stream in assets at half - or maybe even less than half - the speed compared to the PS5. That Lumen, Nanite and of course UE5 as technologies will run on both consoles has been clear all along.
 

Spinluck

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
28,482
Chicago
It's always interesting to see the many different horses people have in these imaginary races.

Sony
MS
PC

It's like nothing has changed since like 2007 when I first started using gaming forums.
 

armadillopoke

Banned
May 14, 2020
342
There is an unvoiced assumption among many here that the flying portion of the tech demo is bottlenecked by I/O storage speed. It could just as easily be bottlenecked by CPU draw calls, GPU compute power, etc. The simple fact is that we don't know, so to move on to say talking about what different hardware might do better is simply unwarranted. :)
 

Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
4,931
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
Good point tbf. Do we know of any differences between the PS5/XSX CPUs and Zen 7 series, aside from the frequency? Could there be differences in cache size etc? The cheapest Zen 7 right now is £300, seems crazy that we might be seeing £300 CPU performance in next gen consoles. Especially considering where we were last gen. Or even the gen before when 360's CPU could only execute in-order operations.
I think in our original XSX article it was written that smaller Cache is a very reasonable Thing to imagine.
 

Iron Eddie

Banned
Nov 25, 2019
9,812
Lol!

Buying them both at launch, best of both worlds!

😎
Is that just a shield, because buying both does not mean your comments or interest is going to be the same.

It's always interesting to see the many different horses people have in these imaginary races.

Sony
MS
PC

It's like nothing has changed since like 2007 when I first started using gaming forums.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but this has been going on even before forums. I'm old enough to remember the early Sega/Nintendo days. Sony and Microsoft just added more drama.
 

Transistor

Hollowly Brittle
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,169
Washington, D.C.
The question was whether the demo can run on the Series X without too hard concessions, since it can only stream in assets at half - or maybe even less than half - the speed compared to the PS5. That Lumen, Nanite and of course UE5 as technologies will run on both consoles has been clear all along.
Given that it's a multiplatform engine though, any multiplatform dev would (should) tailor to the lowest common denominator on both systems. I really think the spec differences (SSD speed vs TFs / CUs) is barely going to mean a thing for multiplatform games, but will give some great enhancements for exclusives.

I think, quite frankly, people are just too quick to jump to the defense of their favorite plastic box
 

GING-SAMA

Banned
Jul 10, 2019
7,846
interesting...

A 2080 Laptop is more like an RTX 2060.

And an EVO 970 displays less performance than the SX SSD.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
Is that just a shield, because buying both does not mean your comments or interest is going to be the same.

Is anyone's interest exactly the same? These are different products with inevitably different games, services, features etc. Everyone has their own subjective preferences.
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
The question was whether the demo can run on the Series X without too hard concessions, since it can only stream in assets at half - or maybe even less than half - the speed compared to the PS5. That Lumen, Nanite and of course UE5 as technologies will run on both consoles has been clear all along.
The example from Epic was look at what SSD utilisation can achieve, not what can XSX achieve in comparison, that's a point scoring exercise manufactured by fanboys. DF for instance said we can't glean anything meaningful for a comparison between hardware.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,143
The question was whether the demo can run on the Series X without too hard concessions, since it can only stream in assets at half - or maybe even less than half - the speed compared to the PS5. That Lumen, Nanite and of course UE5 as technologies will run on both consoles has been clear all along.

I really don't think that is the question cause we don't even know if the demo is using the PS5 SSD fully .
We don't have a full idea of what they really doing with the SSD even that demo .
So say it using the fully speed of PS5 SSD set up or the XSX version will have concessions in streaming or something else make no sense.
 

tzare

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,145
Catalunya
Given that it's a multiplatform engine though, any multiplatform dev would (should) tailor to the lowest common denominator on both systems. I really think the spec differences (SSD speed vs TFs / CUs) is barely going to mean a thing for multiplatform games, but will give some great enhancements for exclusives.

I think, quite frankly, people are just too quick to jump to the defense of their favorite plastic box
I think that will be the case most of the time, but since consoles are fixed hardware used for a long period, years, even multiplatform engines can have specific tools to take advantage of each platform, maybe not as much as a first party engine, but enough to be meaningful. For example Bend could stick to UE5 for DG2, but only would make sense if could use some the specific strengths of ps5.
 
OP
OP
P40L0

P40L0

Member
Jun 12, 2018
7,630
Italy
Wait, why is this a big revelation? The architectures of the two nextgen consoles are very similar, of course the engine will run great on both.
Until 2 hours ago a lot of people were wandering about the clear PS5 SSD advantages of running the UE5 demo, especially the last 30 seconds flying part (impossible to be done in the same way with the same fidelity on XSX or PC).

This is not the case, as the demo with same fidelity can run with same resolution and higher framerates on an High-end gaming laptop with pretty regular SSD (also little slower than the one inside XSX).
 
OP
OP
P40L0

P40L0

Member
Jun 12, 2018
7,630
Italy
Targeting 60fps on next gen consoles is great news.
Also "mildly shocking" I would say.
The target was there since the beginning, as also reported in the other topic.

From "target" to actual reach of this goal anything could happen, and devs are still free to prioritize what they want on a game-by-game basis.

Still, we should see A LOT more 60fps games on next-gen compared to current, and that's already awesome to know.