Many EGS games are not compatibility with Steam features even when added to Steam.
This is a known thing
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Tim Sweeney: Epic Games will cover future refunds and work with other stores to ensure key availability for crowdfunded games that go Epic exclusive
- Thread starter vestan
- Start date
Many EGS games are not compatibility with Steam features even when added to Steam.
This is a known thing
Really?
I only tried SP (Ashen, Outer Wilds and Hades) games and had no issues with Big Picture and Steam Input.
Some of them won't even launch without a hacky workaround. Fortnite and Dauntless come to mind in this regard.
To you it seems miniscule but EGS is doing way more harm than good and I bet we will see some of the developers that took the deal regretting it in the long term because people don't forget.
Sorry if I dislike a business model which aims to pick the winners in the market. Sorry if I dislike a predatory model against 3rd party stores. Sorry if I dislike a model that push the fact that the customer should be the one paying. Sorry if I dislike a model aiming to silence the customer. Yeah in fact, it's pretty much toxic in fact.
Also the developper already has financial security. They have a deal with Deep Silver. They have a deal with Sony. In fact, that deal only happened so that Deep Silver could make it back on a part of their investment earlier. They're far from being a struggling publisher.
Yeah, you can make fun of that. Yet, I'm the customer. The customer is king. The corporate bootlicking has to stop at some point. The narrative that it's the "small kind indie dev vs the entitled customer" is ridiculous. We're talking about companies making millions here.
Many "known things" I've seen spouted in this thread have been demonstrably false.
You know what's weirder? The idea that people complaining actually want an EGS specific big picture mode or custom input mapper. Does that make any sense? Are people really mad they can't launch a big picture mode with only their EGS games instead of having everything added to their Steam menu? Or mad they can't recreate their custom input maps in EGS instead of using the ones they already made for Steam?
More harm than good? Based on what? Forum bitching? There's basically zero evidence this "controversy" has had any material, negative impact on any game. At this point it sure seems like those complaining amount to nothing more than a rounding error in the actual impact on sales they have.
I absolutely agree. These false statements need to stop like this nonsense here:
Isn't it ironic how people have no issues with false statements as long as they fit their own narrative?
I mean, while I participate in this carnival of stupid, that poster already has an history of platform warring. Regarding his post history, it's obvious that's someone who has an axe to grind.
For sure -- and larger, profitable game companies are taking advantage of what EGS is doing and trying to perpetuate the myth that 70/30 is a huge problem. There was a thread yesterday regarding Paradox Interactive's Executive Chairman claiming that 70/30 is "outrageous". PI made $42 million NET income last year ($120m gross). If all 423 Paradox employees split that they'd each take home an extra $100,000. Seems like they are doing fine...
Except when it doesn't. Any non-Steam-native game is a crapshoot as to how many hoops you have to jump though to get all of those features working. Every other launcher that stands in the way of just launching the executable means one more workaround that I have to put in place to get full use of those features. Here's a breakdown of what I have in place to be able to start Destiny 2 with paddles and gyro via my Xbox Elite Controller with Brook Xone Adapter (which presents itself to the OS as a Switch Pro controller), or my Hori TAC Pro keypad (which presents itself to the OS as a DualShock4 controller):
- Create an alternate executable with OSOL so that Battle.net will open, start the game, and then close itself afterwards so that I don't need to emulate a mouse to hit Play, but keep a target executable as long as the actual game excutable is running.
- Create a GloSC profile that points to the OSOL executable so that Steam Input can properly hook into the running process and provide alternate controller support and remapping
- Add the GloSC excecutable with the specific profile to Steam as a non-Steam game, so that I can launch via Big Picture Mode.
- So now when I'm ready to play Destiny 2 on this controller, I can finally launch the shortcut via Big Picture Mode, which launches GloSC, which launches OSOL, which launches Battle.net which launches Destiny 2.
- If any of those steps breaks down, or if there is a game update pending, out comes the keyboard/mouse to fix it and try again.
- Play the game, but even though I have GloSC running, I still can't use the Steam Overlay to access game critical websites like Destiny Item Manager or Braytech because Destiny 2 actively blocks 3rd party overlays
- Oh, and a few updates ago GloSC broke and no longer closes itself once Destiny 2 terminates, so I have to manually close all that down after each play session.
You know what I'll need to do to play Destiny 2 with my controller come September 17th when it moves to Steam?
- Launch Destiny 2 via Big Picture Mode
Admittedly, i have a very specific setup that I'm trying to support here, and EGS is marginally better at launching games and getting out of the way than Battle.net is, but the point is that Steam provides real value to power users and every other launcher (with the possible exception of GoG Galaxy 2.0) provide nothing but roadblocks to just playing my goddamned games.
I haven't personally haven't got a problem with EGS, having only bought Metro:Exodus, but with Game Pass coming to PC unless it's a unique game I am desperate to play or willing to support I will be buying a lot less games in the future no matter what store in on.
I backed Phoenix Point and after this debacle I won' be kickstarting games any more or buying mid tier AA games in the future The Sinking City and Control simply won't get bought as I never replay games so I have no problems with utilising subscription based services to my advantage it's going to be far cheaper in the long run for me. As somebody who buys 2 or 3 games per month.
I backed Phoenix Point and after this debacle I won' be kickstarting games any more or buying mid tier AA games in the future The Sinking City and Control simply won't get bought as I never replay games so I have no problems with utilising subscription based services to my advantage it's going to be far cheaper in the long run for me. As somebody who buys 2 or 3 games per month.
Based on the pr that epic and the developers and publishers release on all the successful sales the exclusives games get. o wait there's been very few times they have said anything positive about sales.
also anything you have posted has been "facts" not backed up by reality.
I always feel like this matters more in the end, epic will need to constantly do sales imo
Also, to the ppl mentioning windows game pass, i have a suspicion that this model will see some traction (tho i do think a subscription model will always be overtaken by streaming)
You think that you aren't discounting the other half, while simultaneously saying people are just trying to be deceptive for caring about that other half. All you're really doing is hand waving people's concerns and using "it's just a launcher lol." to dismiss criticism. I don't understand why anyone would do that unless they're either on Epic's payroll, or just really annoyed by the controversy and using it as a platform to troll in a misguided hope that people will stop being mad about it if you can just convince them of a ridiculous lie.
Hope they go back to drawing board about them first, last time didn't go so hot with some major titles being pulled from store.
Great video from Hoeg Law. he is a game industry lawyer who also advertises his law firm on the EasyAllies Podcast. he has a great breakdown on how Epic used some of their money to protect Ys Net from having to refund money that they have already spent on development. It's almost like Tim Sweeney was like: "oops" and then throws money at YsNet.
Hoeg also makes a great point about the UE4 engine. Epic doesn't take the 5% licensing fee from UE4 if the game is sold on EGS. I have talked about that one before.
Hoeg also makes a great point about the UE4 engine. Epic doesn't take the 5% licensing fee from UE4 if the game is sold on EGS. I have talked about that one before.
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Some of us care about our consumer rights and choices. Some of us don't think how just because its "capitalism at work" does not make it right. Why defend a multi-million dollar company that could not give two shits about you or developers.
Tims attitude towards customers that take issues with his way of doing things is never taken seriously by him. He thinks he is 'Saving Gaming' but he takes no stance against any other stores other than steam. He could support developers without the exclusive restrictions if it was true altruism as he loves to pretend.
What's even weirder is that EGS is positioned as an alternative - nay, a replacement to Steam, and yet apparently it's perfectly fine for it to piggyback off of the features Valve have spent years building up for their ecosystem. EGS does not get a pass just because Steam already has features it doesn't - Epic doesn't get to save money on developing those features, and throw the 12% accusation back like they earned it.
By all means explain to me how a game being available on just Epic Game Store results in greater competition than a game being available on a great number of stores.
I wish people would stop interacting with these disingenuous idiots that think 'it's just another launcher' or 'competition iz good!' is a good line of reasoning. They obviously lack the mental capacity to understand why what Tencent T is doing is an issue.
Well then you're in luck! They won't have the lower price by design! Aren't you lucky? Isn't all of this competition great?
You got me. Only Cloud saves are on the trello board for the EGS. I misremembered and it appears they have not committed to family sharing yet. See how easy it is to admit a mistake?
Yeah, I have the axe to grind. Not the dogpile of people who think Tim Sweeney is a greedy, evil liar. Anyone who disagrees is a platform warrior or a shitposter or a corporate bootlicker for challenging the flow of bad faith arguments. There's no room for honest disagreement. Is that right?
I'm sorry, when did Destiny 2 hit EGS? But is sounds like you basically don't think games should be allowed to not be on Steam. Go competition!
EGS has never once positioned itself as a replacement for Steam. It has always been framed as an alternative.
By forcing those stores to compete with each other on content and financial terms? It doesn't matter if you don't care about that kind of competition, it's still competition, and it's the kind of competition that often ultimately benefits users. How often are people talking about Xbox and PlayStation forcing eachother to be better through competition? Or Intel and AMD? Neither only compete for customers, they compete in innumerable ways behind the scenes. You not seeing it does not mean it doesn't exist, or is not valid or does not benefit you.
An alternative would be offering the same games on both storefronts, with the customer deciding which is the better value for them.
They're positioning themselves as a replacement by keeping games off Steam, in order to be the sole option in the market.
"Missing features from Steam? Just add the games as a shortcut into Steam. Problem solved!"
What the hell kind of ass-backwards thinking is that? Besides only being viable for a few features, it also misses the point of the complaints entirely. Just how is that at all considered a good response to complaints about how feature lacking and anti-competitive EGS is?
There are some people here arguing in incredibly bad faith.
What the hell kind of ass-backwards thinking is that? Besides only being viable for a few features, it also misses the point of the complaints entirely. Just how is that at all considered a good response to complaints about how feature lacking and anti-competitive EGS is?
There are some people here arguing in incredibly bad faith.
Unless you're talking about GOG:
* No exclusivity deals
* A not-horrible launcher
* Shopping cart
* Community/bulletin-boards
* Actually advancing their client
If people want to look at examples of what a potential competitor to the Steam environment looks like, look at GOG. Which, funnily enough, never had a stage where they resembled what EGS is now doing (re: exclusives, features etc.)
I was refuting the notion that getting all the features that Steam confers to non-Steam games is as easy as just adding them as a non-Steam shortcut. It's a notion that's applicable to all launchers.
Let it compete as an alternative then by allowing games on both platforms. That way those of us who value the QoL features that Steam provides can buy our games on Steam, and those that value 12% dev cuts and whatever other nebulously consumer-beneficial features EGS provides can buy it there.
wouldnt it coming out on your preferred platform and being good be the "win" scenario?
That's not what any of those words mean. Alternatives can have unique attributes. Replacements would literally obviate the need for what it is replacing. No one is throwing away their Steam library. No one is being expected to.
This is a complete misrepresentation of the complaint which is: I want all my games in Steam Big Picture mode. But it's already the solution, because Big Picture was designed to include non-Steam games. So complaining that EGS lacks Big Picture Mode is a trumped up nonsense complaint designed to fit in a spreadsheet on reddit, not in anyone's actual lives.
It's applicable in the vast majority of cases. Fixating on a corner case that has nothing to do with the EGS adds nothing to the discussion.
Unique attributes? LOL! Name me three "unique attributes" of the Epic Store.
Except for the games that don't work with it for myriad of reasons. Apart from those, it's a non issue.
You crybabies.
Edit: I can't decide if Brad is one of the more amusing trolls accounts I've met or if our world views are just that fucking different. EXCELSIOR!
Just looking at his post history should tell you all you need to know.
I don't need to look, I remember him.
He just might be that dedicated!
Eh. I treat KS as a gamble. I admit this entire thing puts me a bit off, but there are certain games that I just want to get made even if the end result is being released on circa 2008 GFWL.
"I understand the vested interest in steam, and not having multiple applications"
I just turned it off there. Its great to hear another person not understanding...
Exactly.
No one involved in any of these shenanigans can expect even the tiniest iota of trust regarding any of their future claims.
I still find it extremely hard to believe that some people earlier in the thread argue that this doesn't hurt crowdfunding for games. To me (as a very prolific crowdfunder, and huge advocate for it over many years), the crowdfunding process is all about trust. It's giving a developer your money based on nothing more than promises and your trust in their portfolio, planning, and integrity to deliver on those promises. And that hurdle just got significantly higher. In fact, there have already been 2 campaigns I specifically didn't contribute to due to these concerns.
EGS is such an amazing platform that the best thing its fans can come up with in its favour is "you can get a subset of Steam features by launching EGS games through Steam".
Funny, that.
Yeah, that's another funny thing.
"No one can compete with Steam for features, it's just too good and had such a long time to get there!" and, at the same time, "Valve hasn't done anything in years!".
So transparent it's pathetic, really.
So what would be the benefit to consumers if Valve responded by also buying exclusivity on many games, rather than using their resources to simply continue to improve their service/product?
Playstation and Xbox existing results in competition between themselves. This does not mean Microsoft and Sony never engage in any kind of anti-competitive actions. It's absurd to suggest that Microsoft cannot possibly do anything anti-competitive simply because Sony exists.
Edit: I don't think anyone can reasonably object to the very notion of Epic having their own store. Criticisms are centred on how they are conducting their business, no one is advocating for Steam to be the only store allowed to exist. Valve have achieved market dominance in a highly competitive market, by offering what the majority of consumers seem to believe is the best service.
Ignoring that you've moved these goal posts here, there, and even tossed them outside the stadium in this thread: I did not quote you in any capacity. I did not address you or anything specific that you said. It's kind of telling that you still took direct offense to my comment.
Before making this reply (this one right here), I did take a super quick glance at your last few replies in this thread to see why you'd drag me into your nonsense.
Right there.
You ignored the issues. You ignored the greater problems at work. You handwaved away that user's specific critiques and issues they have with EGS with a simple "just add them as non-Steam games" and called it a day. You say that the complaint was simply about Big Picture Mode when it's very clearly only a part of the overall problem. The fact that a workaround is the only way to regain that lost functionality is the problem at its core. EGS isn't competing on features. They can just piggyback off of Steam to get some of those features back that PC users love, right? Do you understand how that is completely backwards thinking? Do you understand how that is the issue here?
You have continued to argue in bad faith. You continue offering bootstrap solutions to tiny fractions of the issues consumers here have clearly voiced, all the while you continue to dismiss or outright ignore the core reasons as to why these are issues in the first place. It's very clear you have an agenda and you are hell bent on presenting that agenda.
I'm not going to continue entertaining this BS. You're welcome to quote me, but I can say with certainty that I won't see it.
Hand waving away issues of trust on a platform that only survives because of trust?
Bold strategy.
??????????????????????????????????????
There's a clear fucking difference between development not working out and a dev or publisher intentionally selling exclusivity to a storefront that most of their backers have no interest in
In the former it's just the reality of game development. Latter they're fucking treating their backers like an interest free loan
What is it about epic that attracts so many clown opinions in its defense ? Y'all copying Sweeney's approach?
Sure, and developers/publishers screwing you over is another risk associated with Kickstarter.
People have been treating crowdfunding like a pre-order service for way too long already. Nothing is guaranteed with Kickstarter, and if you find that too much of a risk, you ought not to back.
If stuff like this erodes enough trust to sink the service, then I guess that's just the way it has to be.
I don't like it when people exploit their backers, but it's a reality of the service.
Most people undestand when a kickstart fails because of issues like bad planning. This case is way worse. Instead of not delivering because they couldn't actually develop the game, they finished it just fine and fucked over the people who helped and trusted them enough to give them money. In the first case, it's a pity. In the second, it's completely imoral.
I don't disagree with any of that. But as I keep saying, when you give money to a Kickstarter, you have to be comfortable with all possible outcomes. That includes the game being bad, the game never being delivered, the developer taking the money and running, the game not coming out on the intended platforms, etc.
