Tim Rogers' 3 Hour Video Review of Final Fantasy VII Remake.

[TheChillyAcademic]

He's a literary vagabond. He goes, he comes, he dashes, he fumbles, he bumbles, he rambles and he talks about himself and his life. What makes him interesting to me is that as much as he has a well measured speaking voice, his words lend themselves better to script, better to being read than listened to. Some people don't enjoy that. I don't enjoy some of Jane Austin because of the amount of burlesque, subtle nature in her more forward motioned plots.

Three hours is pretty damn long in all fairness lol

 

[Pendas]

That's literally part of what his audience comes to him for. One of his reasons he gave for leaking Kotaku (outside of the obvious one) is that his fans always tell him they love him injecting the various stories about his life into his work and he felt he was running out of them.

I dunno, there just sure does seem to be a lot of people who want to try and claim they know "the reason" why his style of review is objectively bad while ignoring the fact he launched a very successful patreon so clearly there's an audience for it you just aren't a part of.

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Well, I'm not one of those people that thinks his videos are "objectively bad," so not sure why you quoted me.

 

[Ashes of Dreams]

Well, I'm not one of those people that thinks his videos are "objectively bad," so not sure why you quoted me.

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It was specifically the "number one rule is knowing where to cut content" line. It definitely came across to me as "this guy made a video this long because he isn't good at his job". But, yes, I used that to spring into a comment about people in this thread overall, as I specified.

 

[MoosetheMark]

Great video but I've gotta say I'm not a fan of seeing Tim on camera so much. I understand it cuts down on the insane amount of b-roll he needs to use, but I can see him trying to perform for the camera and it doesn't work for me. I much prefer the Kotaku style of "voiceover over hilariously repeated clip of Norman Reedus pulling off a toenail."

 

[Neiteio]

Great video but I've gotta say I'm not a fan of seeing Tim on camera so much. I understand it cuts down on the insane amount of b-roll he needs to use, but I can see him trying to perform for the camera and it doesn't work for me. I much prefer the Kotaku style of "voiceover over hilariously repeated clip of Norman Reedus pulling off a toenail."

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I love Death Stranding but I probably changed my footwear twice as much as necessary because I did not want to see that, lol

 

[Zukuu]

His he positive on the game or negative?

 

[Neiteio]

His he positive on the game or negative?

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Largely positive, saying he loved the game overall, but he has critiques. He likes the padding (stuff like Ch. 4 including Roche, Ch. 6, Ch. 15, etc), but he disliked most of the sidequests and the monkey bars section with Tifa. But it doesn't do things justice to sum up like this. He is very nuanced.

 

[TaleSpun]

Some big points that I think he missed.
Items are there to help everyone get through the game. They are essentially a cushion for players who arent going to dive into the systems.

I would say a lot of his complaints are there to cushion the player. Hard mode has no cushion....thats it.

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His criticism is more that with a stronger design the items wouldn't need to be cushioning, if there at all and there wouldn't be a need for a hard mode at all. He's basically making a case that those things could be excised completely if the game went all in on just being a character action game rather than trying to keep hold of everyone in the audience thats so put off by the idea.

Hard mode totally whips ass though, like it's basically the "real" game, as he noted.

 

[Neiteio]

I'm excited to try Hard Mode. A kind soul sent me some suggested materia loadouts that I'm dying to try. But gotta finish my leisurely second playthrough on Normal first.

 

[Ashes of Dreams]

His he positive on the game or negative?

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Both. He makes it clear that he doesn't think it's an all time great and he prefers the original, but ultimately he clearly had a good time with it.

 

[Pendas]

It was specifically the "number one rule is knowing where to cut content" line. It definitely came across to me as "this guy made a video this long because he isn't good at his job". But, yes, I used that to spring into a comment about people in this thread overall, as I specified.

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Yeah no, it was just a generic statement about Media, with a hint of "I would like this better it this was cut out."

 

[Teenage Fansub]

Great video but I've gotta say I'm not a fan of seeing Tim on camera so much.

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Me too, but only cause he makes me jealous of how I'm looking approaching 40 haha.

 

[TaleSpun]

Might be cool to put on the background during work. I really like Tim and his videos but he has the tendency to go into tangets that come off as "I know about this obscure band/book/media/language/thing and knew it years before most people".

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He doesn't really do this though, does he? What he is, is very transparent about how old he is. I could guess, but there's very few people covering games (even less so in this range) that are his age. I find it really interesting to hear about the stuff he watches/reads, when he did so, and how it informs his experiences and takeaways. He's got like ten+ years on me age-wise, too.

I'm excited to try Hard Mode. A kind soul sent me some suggested materia loadouts that I'm dying to try. But gotta finish my leisurely second playthrough on Normal first.

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It's so great. Make sure you give Aerith 2x MP Up and don't sleep on status effects like poison and sleep.

 

[jett]

Watching it in chunks. My god just got the vertical slice part. Why would you ever do that. I can't imagine how time-consuming compiling all that information must've been. Unless he's making it up, which he might.

Honestly it's hard to assess when he's being serious and facetious. Like when he says he literally played FF7 sixteen times from start to end in the last couple of years, or that he played FF7R's 15th chapter eight times.

 

[Bit_Reactor]

I think people have to remember this is like his first "Action Button" piece, so the beginning serves as a great intro to his mind and work in the industry. I'd rather 10 3 hour videos of Tim Rogers than 1000 of the typical 10 minute vids that are the equivalent to a thumbs up or thumbs down that is everywhere in critique these days.

 

[FrostweaveBandage]

This video is worth it if you have the time. Really points out some great things that put some of the chapters into perspective. Really though he points out a lot of the things we've all noticed. And he's critical without being a complete dick which is oddly refreshing.

 

[Fjordson]

Every time long videos like this get posted on Era there's this subset of people who seem shocked and / or appalled by the length.

I don't get it. Longer game criticism / analysis has been popular on YouTube for like a decade. It's not at all novel.

Great video but I've gotta say I'm not a fan of seeing Tim on camera so much. I understand it cuts down on the insane amount of b-roll he needs to use, but I can see him trying to perform for the camera and it doesn't work for me. I much prefer the Kotaku style of "voiceover over hilariously repeated clip of Norman Reedus pulling off a toenail."

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I'm guessing he'll be on camera less in the future. He said on Twitch that going forward the reviews won't be this long and that he'll have even more b-roll.

Think he's still trying to nail down the format, and as he mentions in the video, this was a whale of a game to take the first crack with lol

 

[Teenage Fansub]

Honestly it's hard to assess when he's being serious and facetious. Like when he says he literally played FF7 sixteen times from start to end in the last couple of years, or that he played FF7R's 15th chapter eight times.

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He definitely played FF7 at least twice in his series comparing the translation to the original for Kotaku, and the Midgar playthrough done for this video since it was streamed.

 

[A Strong Latte]

Honestly it's hard to assess when he's being serious and facetious. Like when he says he literally played FF7 sixteen times from start to end in the last couple of years, or that he played FF7R's 15th chapter eight times.

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He was serious.

Interestingly enough he mentions wanting to hire 3 editors at around 2:44 to make these videos "bigger" and "faster" Take that! Complainers!

 

[Darktalon]

I'm going to watch this over 3 days, 1hr a day. It is magnificent.

 

[ThatsMyTrunks]

I'm 2:46:43 into it and good god I love it.

Also Tim asked me for help with the title cards and I'm damn proud of how they came out.

 

[RugoUniverse]

Love Tim, loved the review. Reading through this thread was a bitter experience that gave me a better idea of what Tim means when he talks about the kind of mindless and pathetic edgelords he gets in his DMs and YouTube comments on an hourly basis.

 

[A Strong Latte]

This 3 hour video contained more interesting viewpoints on FF7, FF7R, Action Game Design, RPG Design and Whether Dark Souls Should have an Easy Mode than months of reading forums and VideoGame Media

 

[Deleted member 17643]

I just finished it. What a superb way to start off his channel.

I found myself nodding in agreement during the section on trinkets, and his idea of a "max stats, all weapons" mode hit a part of my brain I didn't know existed.

 

[A Strong Latte]

Honestly, every time I play something like Destiny 2 (or hell, even Dark Souls) I wonder if the game wouldn't be better without the arbitrary power grind and meaningless statistics. I think RPG stuff is getting to the point where, in action RPG games it feels completely like pointless busywork.

 

[Clay]

He's a literary vagabond. He goes, he comes, he dashes, he fumbles, he bumbles, he rambles and he talks about himself and his life. What makes him interesting to me is that as much as he has a well measured speaking voice, his words lend themselves better to script, better to being read than listened to. Some people don't enjoy that. I don't enjoy some of Jane Austin because of the amount of burlesque, subtle nature in her more forward motioned plots.

Three hours is pretty damn long in all fairness lol

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Actually I disagree, I used to find Tim's Kotaku articles beyond obnoxious, but after watching his videos I can read them in his voice. It's much more obvious when he's using different tones. The odd capitalized and italicized words become charming instead of eye-rollingly sophomoric. The frequent boasts (he really likes to point out that he at one point had abs) take on a new light once you see how self-deprecating he often is.


Anyway, the video is pretty great so far. The editing is great, I believe he spent 300 hours putting it together. The only annoyance I'm running into, and this isn't ruining my overall enjoyment or anything, but he keeps using these really wordy text boxes that are often difficult to read before they go away. Not a huge deal, but it's just annoying constantly having to scrub back and forth to catch them, the YouTube app on iOS can be finicky if you're trying to pinpoint such a narrow window of screen time.

I really enjoy what I've seen so far though, I'll probably wrap it up tonight. I thought it was really interesting that he explained he's currently on a sabbatical from designing games after Videoball bombed. I can't wait to see Truck Heck, though I still partially suspect it's just an elaborate joke.

 

[Fjordson]

I'm 2:46:43 into it and good god I love it.

Also Tim asked me for help with the title cards and I'm damn proud of how they came out.

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Awesome work man. What a perfect way to segment the video.

 

[Deleted member 17643]

Honestly, every time I play something like Destiny 2 (or hell, even Dark Souls) I wonder if the game wouldn't be better without the arbitrary power grind and meaningless statistics.

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I think about this a lot, but I've concluded that I still do enjoy the systems as long as they're in place for player creativity and choice, rather than a simple grind.

In Dark Souls the RPG elements allow you to build fairly distinctive characters that lead to vastly different playstyles, and I appreciate that. Sekiro lacked this customization and I feel it was a lesser game for it.

Bloodborne strikes a balance between both, and is consequently the best Souls game.

Edit: For the record I agree with Tim that it's mostly in service of tedium in the Remake, and the game would have most assuredly been better off paring down its systems.

 

[Mr. Genuine]

Tim Rogers is too good for video games.

My favorite thing about this review is Tim Rogers points out something about the first FF7 that I've always felt but never seen anyone else put it into words - that the true quality of FF7 lies in the structure and pacing of its story. I think the comparison to an anime is apt. To me, Midgar feels like a new TV show's first season - one that is shorter than the following seasons, but tells a complete story while also setting the stage for a much larger one.

And he hit the nail on the head on the point about these being relatable characters. To me, this is the best voice acted Final Fantasy, and it has everything to do with these being the first voice acted Final Fantasy characters that feel like real people.

 

[TaleSpun]

I love messing around with the materia in the game, but it's interesting that the "trading" aspect of the original FFVII as he calls it isn't really there. I was never really swapping materia between characters per se, I was switching what I had to whatever characters I was controlling at the time as as a situation/level dictated. There's a definitely a character building saucer to the game as well. I don't think I find it to be quite so superfluous nor would I say it's superior/inferior to the PS1 game, but it's definitely a different feel/appeal.

 

[KorrZ]

Interested in watching as I really enjoy long form video essays / reviews of games but I'm about 25 minutes in and there's something about his cadence that is really weird to me? It doesn't sound like he's speaking naturally which is the only thing I can focus on lol.

 

[Zolbrod]

I love messing around with the materia in the game, but it's interesting that the "trading" aspect of the original FFVII as he calls it isn't really there. I was never really swapping materia between characters per se, I was switching what I had to whatever characters I was controlling at the time as as a situation/level dictated. There's a definitely a character building saucer to the game as well. I don't think I find it to be quite so superfluous nor would I say it's superior/inferior to the PS1 game, but it's definitely a different feel/appeal.

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It slightly irked me that, around 2:20:45, he says he's annoyed by the "gut check" dialogue when equipping Materia that's already equipped by another character, when on the screen he's using (i.e. the one that shows all of your characters' loadouts at once) you can just directly move Materia between characters without having to go through the list (using the list is what prompts the dialogue).

 

[TaleSpun]

It slightly irked me that, around 2:20:45, he says he's annoyed by the "gut check" dialogue when equipping Materia that's already equipped by another character, when on the screen he's using (i.e. the one that shows all of your characters' loadouts at once) you can just directly move Materia between characters without having to go through the list (using the list is what prompts the dialogue).

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That prompt will also come up if you're trying to switch to something a character still has equipped on a weapon they used prior to whatever they're using at that moment though. If you're changing gear enough, you'll see that prompt a lot. Didn't mind it myself, though.

 

[Mockerre]

Managed to watch all of it and now I'm struggling with the 'the point' segment. Not in so much that I don't agree with it, but... wasn't it always like that?

The proposition that FFVIIR wants to ditch item collecting and materia management and stats isn't really surprising. Have you played previous FF entries, like VII, VIII, IX, X? You end the games with tons of unused items. Most of the spells are inessential. Stats and levels are only there to gate content by positing requirements for you to fulfil. The games pose no gameplay challenge in this department. It's always been an illusion of 'RPG', or, to be more precise, 'western RPG'.

 

[treasureyez]

People praise this guy, but I can never get past the first few minutes of his videos because he rambles on about nonsense for the first few minutes. Working in Media, the number one rule is knowing where to cut content. This guy puts his life story in the first 20 minutes of a Final Fantasy review and expects me to care. I don't have time for that shit.

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I think the number one rule in media is probably knowing your audience, which he has built over time by doing exactly what he does.

I got about halfway through this last night (yes, you don't have to watch it in one sitting!!!) and it was great. Excited to finish it up.

Honestly it's hard to assess when he's being serious and facetious. Like when he says he literally played FF7 sixteen times from start to end in the last couple of years, or that he played FF7R's 15th chapter eight times.

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I don't find this even a little hard to believe.

 

[Charred Knight]

I'm 2:46:43 into it and good god I love it.

Also Tim asked me for help with the title cards and I'm damn proud of how they came out.

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I really liked those title cards so that was really good work.

 

[Grzi]

Great video, as always, about what I've come to expect from Tim.

Can't be mad at anything he says, although I disagree with some parts (it absolutely is an ALL-TIMER ;__;, and I don't think the game would be nearly as good as a pure action game, the "turn based" elements in the battle system make it unique).

I completely agree with the point that games should not have difficulty selection, but should be well balanced around a single difficulty. Still, I do not think turning this into a pure action game is the answer to that. Also, the whole point is that you need to control the other characters in the party, that is the faux turn-based element of the battle system. Well, that and the ATB meter. I realize that some might not like that, but I thought it was genius.

The trinket ultimatum part was fun, but again, I disagree, although I am aware it is sort of a Stockholm syndrome, it is just a small part of the game, a bonus. I for one do not want to forget that I am playing a video game, if I wanted to watch a movie I would do just that. And again, it is only an extremely small portion of the game, but he talks about it for too long, probably because he liked the idea of noticing that. Again, it's what he does lol, and I enjoyed listening to him talking about it.

That ties into the next thing I strongly agree with, is that FFVIIR is a triple A game that feels like it is from the ps1/ps2 era. It is what I have been saying since I first played it. I feel the same way, to a lesser extent, about FFXV. But yeah, I like that he described the game in that way, because not many other reviewers did, which surprised me. It is painfully obvious.

Anyway, great video, looking forward to the next one. Will probably rewatch parts of this one in the future.

Oh right, #clerith is wrong, stop it, please, I do not want to hear it.

 

[jett]

I finished watching this three hour monstrosity. I'm not sure I came away particularly more enlightened about the game but the review was entertaining and very well made, no doubt.

This is literally how he speaks in real life. And I assure you he's more humble than you might expect.

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I just want to say that after watching the epilogue, this is very clearly false. He puts on a fake, exaggerated voice/speech pattern for large portions of the video. You can see the difference immediately when he starts doing patreon shotouts lol.

 

[Deleted member 69573]

Tim skillfully walks this tightrope of being self-aggrandizing and self-deprecating and subversive and self-aware, all at the same time. He's smart and he knows it, but he doesn't come off condescending. Makes his videos cozy.

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This 100%

 

[Deleted member 69573]

Watching it in chunks. My god just got the vertical slice part. Why would you ever do that. I can't imagine how time-consuming compiling all that information must've been. Unless he's making it up, which he might.

Honestly it's hard to assess when he's being serious and facetious. Like when he says he literally played FF7 sixteen times from start to end in the last couple of years, or that he played FF7R's 15th chapter eight times.

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He outlines at the start that he's being paid monthly on patreon for what a top client might pay him so he's going to give it a full times jobs worth of effort. I think it's all for real.

 

[Teenage Fansub]

I just want to say that after watching the epilogue, this is very clearly false. He puts on a fake, exaggerated voice/speech pattern for most of the video.

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He's hamming it up in the intro, but in almost any other spot I'm clicking, it's just a more direct and measured version of his casual voice.
Nobody sounds the same when they're delivering a speech.

 

[Mockerre]

Oh, one more thing I thought about. I think his method is deeply flawed, by design. The act of observation changes the object. I think your view of a game (or any medium for that matter) is going to be colored by how you experienced it. If you play a 40h game 4 times in a row, while taking meticulous notes and doing that whole dissection thing, you're going to walk away with a different take then if you played it once. Is this type of game meant to be played like that? The sole act of having to repeat sections of the game will influence your opinion.

 

[Rimkrak]

Oh, one more thing I thought about. I think his method is deeply flawed, by design. The act of observation changes the object. I think your view of a game (or any medium for that matter) is going to be colored by how you experienced it. If you play a 40h game 4 times in a row, while taking meticulous notes and doing that whole dissection thing, you're going to walk away with a different take then if you played it once. Is this type of game meant to be played like that? The sole act of having to repeat sections of the game will influence your opinion.

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He does talk about his opinion of the game after his 1st playthrough though, and why he did the subsequent playthgoughs

 

[Teenage Fansub]

How thorough should people be when making their freakin' dissertations on something?
I'd hope any kid writing their college paper on The Godfather or w/e watched it more than once.

This Nascar/McDonalds/Batman Forever shirt is amazing, btw:

 

[hydrophilic attack]

I completely agree with the point that games should not have difficulty selection, but should be well balanced around a single difficulty. Still, I do not think turning this into a pure action game is the answer to that. Also, the whole point is that you need to control the other characters in the party, that is the faux turn-based element of the battle system. Well, that and the ATB meter. I realize that some might not like that, but I thought it was genius.

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When he's talking about making it an action game, I don't think he means changing the battle system. What he's talking about is keeping how the game plays moment-to-moment, but removing the rpg aspects to avoid the trinket ultimatum you bring up in your next paragraph

 

[Philippo]

It's a shame that English is not my first language, and that I could only listen to it as a background while working, so a lot of the more complicated thoughts completely flew over my head.

That said it's always great to listen to Tim's material, if he wasn't the person he is, someone clearly self-aware and smart, I would probably not stand him lol
Might cave in on the 3$ pledge!

 

[Mockerre]

He does talk about his opinion of the game after his 1st playthrough though, and why he did the subsequent playthgoughs

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Yes and no. In his process breakdown he does say he writes the script afterwards, so even if he bases it on the notes from that time, his heart is already changed. Most of his observations, too, reference the subsequent playthroughs. It doesn't make his perspective any less valuable, but it does limit its application to more of a scholarly analysis that is not meant or useful to the general public.

Some tricks, or scenes, or jokes are only good for one go and they're not meant to be replayes several times in a row.

 

[Rimkrak]

Yes and no. In his process breakdown he does say he writes the script afterwards, so even if he bases it on the notes from that time, his heart is already changed. Most of his observations, too, reference the subsequent playthroughs. It doesn't make his perspective any less valuable, but it does limit its application to more of a scholarly analysis that is not meant or useful to the general public.

Some tricks, or scenes, or jokes are only good for one go and they're not meant to be replayes several times in a row.

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True, and your last sentence also works the other way : some stuff is supposed to work on subsequent playthrough ,and get most oftheir meaning there.

In the end, his multiple playthrough analysis is a great fit if you want to make a deep thorough 3 hours analysis video, while if you just want to review the game in a shorter video, yeah one playthrough is enough probably, even though in FF7R's case, hard mode is quite different than normal mode so fully judge the game requires at lmeast 2 playthroughs

 

[Mockerre]

True, and your last sentence also works the other way : some stuff is supposed to work on subsequent playthrough ,and get most oftheir meaning there.

In the end, his multiple playthrough analysis is a great fit if you want to make a deep thorough 3 hours analysis video, while if you just want to review the game in a shorter video, yeah one playthrough is enough probably, even though in FF7R's case, hard mode is quite different than normal mode so fully judge the game requires at lmeast 2 playthroughs

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I would disagree with that last statement. You may gleam more insight by playing a game (or reading a book, or watching a movie) a second or third time, but linear narrative media are generally tailored for a single experience. Especially games like FFVIIR, which don't offer meaningful choices throughout. The game is virtually the same, it's you who have changed*.

*Yes, there's the case of Hard Mode removing item usage, though thanks to Tim's useful (from a developer's point of view at least) breakdown of gameplay, it constitutes only around 38% of all play time.

I do think Tim gets it wrong with the Hard Mode. Looking at how the series has used 'trinkets' (i prefer 'consumables' myself) for the last 25 years, their place, function and importance didn't change here. I don't believe the game was design around Hard Mode and then the consumables were added. I think it was designed the way it was designed and then someone said 'could we add a Hard Mode to raise the game's value proposition' and some else said 'remove one of the resource sources, the non-renewable one'. There are two things pointing this was the process. First, it's hastily implemented: Square didn't remove the chests that now give you worthless rewards, nor did they edit the other rewards to account for it. Second, your Hard Mode's actual difficulty will vary depending on which materia you've leveled up during the game; if you didn't focus on Chakra, Prayer, Heal, Rise, you'll have a harder time. This doesn't seem thought out well at all.

 

[Rimkrak]

I would disagree with that last statement. You may gleam more insight by playing a game (or reading a book, or watching a movie) a second or third time, but linear narrative media are generally tailored for a single experience. Especially games like FFVIIR, which don't offer meaningful choices throughout. The game is virtually the same, it's you who have changed*.

*Yes, there's the case of Hard Mode removing item usage, though thanks to Tim's useful (from a developer's point of view at least) breakdown of gameplay, it constitutes only around 38% of all play time.

I do think Tim gets it wrong with the Hard Mode. Looking at how the series has used 'trinkets' (i prefer 'consumables' myself) for the last 25 years, their place, function and importance didn't change here. I don't believe the game was design around Hard Mode and then the consumables were added. I think it was designed the way it was designed and then someone said 'could we add a Hard Mode to raise the game's value proposition' and some else said 'remove one of the resource sources, the non-renewable one'. There are two things pointing this was the process. First, it's hastily implemented: Square didn't remove the chests that now give you worthless rewards, nor did they edit the other rewards to account for it. Second, your Hard Mode's actual difficulty will vary depending on which materia you've leveled up during the game; if you didn't focus on Chakra, Prayer, Heal, Rise, you'll have a harder time. This doesn't seem thought out well at all.

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Oh I definitely agree that hard mode might have been tacked on and not thoroughly though out beforehand. It's just that I recognized my playthroughs when he talked about that : 1st playthrough is basically avoid the critical path in spite of immersion just to find items that are most of the time useless (in the sense that you can get them elsewhere without deviating from the critical path) and on hard mode I focused more on following the path and it made imo for a tighter experience.

Also, with the way they took the story, I found the second playthrough brought more stuff than the first, thanks to getting most of the details and having a better appreciation of what's going on.
This is definitely an outlier case, most of the time replaying a game is just because you want to for fun, not because there is sense in doing it.
I thought that for FF7R it makes sense to go at it again after experiencing the story once, and would even go as far as say that yes, it's probably gonna influence and change the opinion one had on the game after finishing it once, but in a positive way :)