I played some games on PC at like 2 FPS when I was a kid. When you save up and buy that game no low FPS will stop you from enjoying it.
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TIL the original Majoras Mask only ran at 20 FPS.
- Thread starter It’s Time To Go
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I remember a slideshow with slappers and n-bombs in multiplayer. Yet we kept coming back
pretty much.
The difference is massive for a lot of games and certain games and genres can really only be in 60fps like fighting games. I also can't imagine playing 30fps on PC games with keyboard and mouse, 60fps is always ideal. It's a good thing many new games on the new consoles are offering 60fps options for a reason.
I don't remember if it was on here or somewhere else, but I remember reading a post from a guy who said as a kid, he thought framerate drops were the game intentionally slowing down to give you more time to react, and although I never consciously saw it that way, I think that's how I interpreted it as well as a kid, I was never like, "Ugh, the game is chugging again, the N64 really needs a Pro model," I just thought it was normal.
I noticed a lot of N64 games had terrible performance when I was a kid. Shadows of the Empire, Banjo Tooie, Donkey Kong 64, Ocarina, Majora's, Perfect Dark, etc... I originally wanted a N64 to go along with my PS1, but some of those games I listed made me physically ill (partially due to framerate, partially due to the N64 smear) so I ended up not getting one until many years later. I didn't play/beat OoT until like 2008 and it was on an emulator.
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Well I was only 8 in 2001 when majora came out, so I didn't play much beyond Pokemon and licenced games, so you are correct I did.
Why did the European version run even worse? Was there a difference in hardware or code?
N64 was a nightmare when it comes to performance and the PAL N64 was even worse. Unlike the SNES it didn't even have the advantage of RGB output. So the PAL version was complete shit. This was still the era when Nintendo was treating the PAL territories as afterthoughts.
My older brother imported NTSC games and got a hold of the NTSC console in 1998, and I never hooked up the PAL system again.
Even when the games ran at their intended speed, it was still unpleasant.
My older brother imported NTSC games and got a hold of the NTSC console in 1998, and I never hooked up the PAL system again.
Even when the games ran at their intended speed, it was still unpleasant.
Televisions in PAL/SECAM regions ran at 50Hz, while televisions in NTSC regions refreshed at 60Hz (technically, 60/1.001).
PAL/SECAM televisions had 576 lines of resolution, while NTSC televisions had 480 lines.
This meant that games which were not PAL-optimized (the majority) ran ~17% slower.
It also meant that many games had a squashed "letterboxed" appearance where the extra lines were blank but still scaled to fit a 4:3 screen.
Now games could be PAL-optimized and use the full 576 lines while also running at full speed, but it was quite rare.
This is why importing games/consoles was far more common back then.
PAL60 started to be used with the Dreamcast. Nearly every game supported that, and it was a revelation for many; but it didn't work with all televisions, and you had to use an RGB connection.
I think it was supported by some PS2 games, but not many, most GameCube games, and I believe most Xbox games as well(?).
Those problems largely disappeared with the HD era of consoles.
- Old games slowed down as the frame rate dipped.
- New games drop frames, but continue running at full speed (mostly).
Game speed being disconnected from frame rate is a good thing though, as it's what makes high frame rate gaming possible now; but it's also one of the reasons why lower frame rates are far less tolerated today.
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Back then we didnt know what a good framerate was, almost every early 3D game played like dogshit and it was fine because we didnt know better. Now the standars has change and we should at least ask for playable framerates in modern consoles
Ocarina is the only game I've felt sick playing outside of VR, I think it was a combination of the low frame rate and draw distance.
I do remember noticing that Ocarina of Time was "choppier" than other games like Super Mario 64, but the graphics were so impressive so I figured it was for a good reason. Can't say it bothered me much, especially after a few minutes of play, and I imagine this was true for most people.
I think it helps that the frame rate was at least evenly low. If things ever started to chug the game would just slow down, which may or may not be noticeable. Something like Turok was a whole different story, that game would just turn into a slideshow as soon as anything happened on screen.
I'm European by the way, so 15 fps team go.
Speaking of, the PAL version of Majora's Mask actually had interesting glitch. If you ever tried the crooked cartridge thing you could actually get the game to briefly switch over to 60hz, but sadly it would always lock up shortly afterwards so it wasn't really playable in this mode. To my knowledge there were no N64 games that allowed you to switch between 50 and 60hz so it could have been pretty wild.
I think it helps that the frame rate was at least evenly low. If things ever started to chug the game would just slow down, which may or may not be noticeable. Something like Turok was a whole different story, that game would just turn into a slideshow as soon as anything happened on screen.
I'm European by the way, so 15 fps team go.
Speaking of, the PAL version of Majora's Mask actually had interesting glitch. If you ever tried the crooked cartridge thing you could actually get the game to briefly switch over to 60hz, but sadly it would always lock up shortly afterwards so it wasn't really playable in this mode. To my knowledge there were no N64 games that allowed you to switch between 50 and 60hz so it could have been pretty wild.
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this post is so unintentionally funny lol
wait for OPs next thread
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I don't like ocarina enough to try and play the originals of that particularly when the 3DS version exists.
Never noticed the abysmal N64 frame rates at the time, and it wasn't bad enough to stop the great games like Majora's Mask from being enjoyable.
It would be damn hard for me to go back now that I'm much older and knowledgeable.
It would be damn hard for me to go back now that I'm much older and knowledgeable.
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I'm gonna give it (Majoras not ocarina) another go, if its worth it as so many of you guys say.
Playing split screen perfect dark with max simulants running around was the true n64 chug experience.
The performance would get worse the longer you played AND fist sim would punch you into a groggy screen stupor.
The performance would get worse the longer you played AND fist sim would punch you into a groggy screen stupor.
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That's the Gamecube rerelease, which used the North American versions as their basis.Also whoever was saying the European version would run at 50hz
People treat games that don't run at a perfect frame rate like a product that's fundamentally broken rather than a work of art where the developers made concessions in performance to prioritize other aspects. If it doesn't run flawlessly people act like the developers are ripping off consumers.
they put the English-only NTSC roms on the GCN collection..Also whoever was saying the European version would run at 50hz
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Thats funny, no owl statues for saving. I assume I'll get saving when I've gone back in time for the first time then?
this - you didn't look to the N64 for great framerates on a lotta games; hell, most of the time i was playing multiplayer split screen and was focused on just trying to keep up
Here's how I see it.
Majora diehards like myself resent the changes made in Majora 3DS because we feel it alters several core aspects of the game to their detriment in ways like the artstyle being much brighter and over-detailed, changes to how sidequests are meted out, Zora swimming being gutted so that you have to expend magic to go fast, and bosses being remade and mostly to their detriment (they're more complex now and Majora 64's bosses were baby easy, but at least they functioned properly).
There are some mechanical downgrades but I think the artstyle complain is the bigger one, but part of why it's so big is that Majora's Mask is a game deeply focused on emotional storytelling than the usual Zelda adventure. It's a game more about helping the people around you than fighting big monsters, and so the emotiaonal resonance of the player matters a lot more than the technical aspects, and we feel that was lost in the transition to 3DS.
Which is to say that you could play the 3DS version and have a good time, because you don't have that original game to compare to. It wouldn't be your Majora's Mask, the new one would be.
If you do go back to the 3DS version there are some hacks for the game playable on Citra that make it a much better playing experience.
That's correct. Owl Statues are for warping around and once you've got your sword back you can use them to suspend your current save.
That actually wasn't in the original Japanese version of the game. You could only stop playing by playing the Song of Time.
I wonder if those who grew up on the N64 are on the whole less concerned with framerate than those before or after.
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I think I'd definitely pick the 3DS version whenever I want to play it. Saying that, I've played the N64 (well GC) version past the first dungeon and it's definitely something you can get used to. To the extent I think I'll try and finish it.
I never once thought of frame rates growing up playing any game whatsoever, Majora's
Mask included. The games were fun and great to play and that's all that mattered.
Mask included. The games were fun and great to play and that's all that mattered.