TIL Mortal Kombat 11 developers suffered mental toll working on the games development due to violence

[DragonSJG]

Mortal Kombat is known for its violence regarding fatalities, brutalities and the recently added x-ray. It seems that they get more graphic and violent with each instalment and I learned that MK11's developers actually suffered due to this to the extent that someone suffered PTSD:

'I'd Have These Extremely Graphic Dreams': What It's Like To Work On Ultra-Violent Games Like Mortal Kombat 11

Mortal Kombat 11 is a brutal game. That’s what you come for—sensational, over-the-top violence that’s inventive and gratuitous on a level that doesn’t exist anywhere else. It can be shocking in its detail and funny in its execution, but it’s always arresting. It’s also short. Fatalities, gory...

kotaku.com

But wow, that's pretty intense and really disturbing actually

 

[StreamedHams]

This has been discussed in the past.

[Kotaku] 'I'd Have These Extremely Graphic Dreams': What It's Like To Work On Ultra-Violent Games Like Mortal Kombat 11

I don't personally play these games and I know violence in games can be a sensitive subject with many but this is pretty serious. Damaging prolonged effects and all that. Article: https://kotaku.com/id-have-these-extremely-graphic-dreams-what-its-like-t-1834611691 Get over here if old.

www.resetera.com

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

Wow, that's quite interesting. I think i've become insensistive to this. I don't think MK(Or any game while at that) to be graphic at all.

 

[Shola Akinnuso]

I remember devs saying something similar about TLoU. I think there's a real conversation that needs to be had about 'at what price' and all that. No, i don't mean censorship or puritanical values and rules. I'm just bringing up the question (not unlike Jeff Goldblum):

"YEAH, BUT YOUR SCIENTISTS DEVELOPERS WERE SO PREOCCUPIED WITH WHETHER OR NOT THEY COULD THAT THEY DIDN'T STOP TO THINK IF THEY SHOULD."
Also apt, "Are you not entertained?"

 

[Scrappy-Fan92]

Yes, there needs to be a conversation on this. No developer's psyche is worth the visceral content on offer.

 

[blueredandgold]

A lot of 'kill your darlings' topics end up needing to be extremely nuanced, drive-by musings like you see on messageboards or social media comments really are detrimental to the overall discussion of the matter at hand.

See also: the way the movie industry has started to tackle what sort of toll its requirements can be put on people, when it's clumsily aimed as a gotcha question about to someone like Quentin Tarantino, it's dismissed.

 

[Deleted member 8257]

Yeah this is just a crappy deal for the developers.

So if you were in charge of MK12 fatalities, how would you approach? Where do you draw the line? Just decapitations?

 

[Sargerus]

Wow, that's quite interesting. I think i've become insensistive to this. I don't think MK(Or any game while at that) to be graphic at all.

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Same, i watched tons of gory horror movies while growing up so stuff like MK11 fatalities don't irk me at all.

 

[RobotHaus]

Yeah this is just a crappy deal for the developers.

So if you were in charge of MK12 fatalities, how would you approach? Where do you draw the line? Just decapitations?

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You could focus more on quality gameplay so there'd be less reliance on gruesome fatalities as a draw. But it does feel like the series is at a point where every new title has to one up the previous.

 

[Chumunga64]

Yeah, once you the violence and gore reaches realistic levels, it starts to become awkward

It's not just graphical advances making things uncomfortable. Modern doom games I feel don't fall into it because the devs know when to make things not ultra realistic

 

[mjhaas]

I can definitely see that. I don't enjoy watching the violence in Mortal Kombat.

 

[Deleted member 19533]

Yeah this is just a crappy deal for the developers.

So if you were in charge of MK12 fatalities, how would you approach? Where do you draw the line? Just decapitations?

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Well, in the MK hot takes thread, it seems a lot of people want them and the super moves dialed way down. The Brutalities becoming the new Fatalities seems to be a fairly common thought process. Make the only things that seem like fatalities the fatalities themselves. Tone down the spectacle, short and sweet. It's what they used to be, and it was better when there was a more cartoony element to it. Constant in your face hyper violence isn't needed.

 

[Scrappy-Fan92]

Yeah this is just a crappy deal for the developers.

So if you were in charge of MK12 fatalities, how would you approach? Where do you draw the line? Just decapitations?

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I mean, the solution is to throw caution to the wind and make Mortal Kombat vs. DC Universe 2, but that won't happen. So, I would simply impose this as a rule: no researching disaster/accident footage. Accuracy to that degree is unnecessary for a series that on its face is supposed to be cartoonishly violent. Further stylizing the character designs and (as others have mentioned) shortening the Fatalities to not be drawn-out, borderline torture porn sequences would also help.

 

[skullmuffins]

Wow, that's quite interesting. I think i've become insensistive to this. I don't think MK(Or any game while at that) to be graphic at all.

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yeah, but they're not just looking at the final product. the devs also had to spend incredible amounts of time painstakingly researching images of *real* gore to use as reference material for the stuff in the game.

Eventually, the developer says they saw a therapist, who diagnosed them with PTSD. They attribute this to their work on MK11—not just the content of the game and having to process and discuss its violent cinematics frame by frame, but also being surrounded by the reference materials artists used for research.

​

"You'd walk around the office and one guy would be watching hangings on YouTube, another guy would be looking at pictures of murder victims, someone else would be watching a video of a cow being slaughtered," they said. "The scary part was always the point at which new people on the project got used to it. And I definitely hit that point."

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[Deleted member 5129]

I really feel for the devs that got hired by Naughty Dog for lighthearted Uncharted shoot bang and then got put on TLoU 2 without a say in the matter.

In terms of MK.. I sometimes have to avert my eyes playing MK11 because it's just so uncomfortably violent, I can't even imagine what it's like to create that sort of stuff and spending 8 hours a day on it. I prefer the Friendships over the Fatalities for sure haha.

 

[BrunOz]

So if you were in charge of MK12 fatalities, how would you approach? Where do you draw the line? Just decapitations?

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[-Le Monde-]

I can't imagine it being good for your mental health. I don't do fatalities because the high level of graphics. It was all fun and games during the snes games, but now. 😬

 

[Crossing Eden]

I really feel for the devs that got hired by Naughty Dog for lighthearted Uncharted shoot bang and then got put on TLoU 2 without a say in the matter.

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IIRC the developers of TLOU2 had a lot of say in the matter when it came to their position on the project. And...even a project like Uncharted has to have developers look at material that would be disturbing for the average person. On top of that iirc there is a lot of aftercare at ND compared to Netherrealm when it comes to the people who specifically have to look at disturbing material.

In short, not every studio working on violent games has the same situation.

 

[jett]

This practice is beyond the pale.

 

[Khanimus]

Wow, that's quite interesting. I think i've become insensistive to this. I don't think MK(Or any game while at that) to be graphic at all.

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It's not a matter of them just animating gory shit. They animated gory shit all the time, it's just that it was silly, crude, and cartoony before. It's that in order to "do it right" in this heavily realistically rendered game, you're researching how graphically anatomy gets fucked up, viewing really disturbing images. "Look how intestines fall out of someone as they get cut in half to make it look accurate." "How do certain organs look after they've been crushed and destroyed?" "How does skin peel after it's charred from searing flames?"

 

[LossAversion]

I really feel like this is not something that you need to source heavily. A textbook on the human body would be sufficient. We don't need developers to look at real gore in order to make these fatalities look more realistic. Especially if they don't want to. It's fucking Mortal Kombat. This seems like a symptom of the higher ups at NRS trying to get people to take Mortal Kombat "seriously". It's the same reason that their past few soundtracks have been completely devoid of energy and fun.

 

[MrConbon210]

I was in marching band in high school and our show one year focused on a guy abducting young girls and throwing their bodies in a river. My mental health got so bad that year by having to practice every day after school for 4-6 hours on such a dark subject matter. I'm not shocked at all that these developers were mentally affected by having to be surrounded by brutal violence every day.

 

[TheMadTitan]

They could go back to making the violence not as detailed and over the top. If it's traumatizing your employees, it's not worth it.

 

[Jombie]

I've played it recently, and I completely get it. Yeah, it's violence is over the top, but imagine having to work on some of those scenes hour after hour, week after week. I think it's a bit much, especially since some of the fatalities fucking go on and on. It get tired of seeing it myself.

 

[Scrappy-Fan92]

MrConbon210 You have my condolences.

 

[RM8]

MK is my favorite series, but I wouldn't mind if they toned down the violence. Fatalities get old real fast anyway, I just finish my opponents with a punch or whatever when I play online.

 

[yogurt]

I'd love it if the fatalities went back to being more straightforward and stylized instead of drawn out gore porn. It's the #1 reason I don't play MK any more, and I'm not surprised that it caused mental durress.

 

[Deleted member 19626]

People saying the fatalities don't phase them are clearly not reading the article.

 

[trimin]

Yeah they're using real photos as reference. That's the difference. You can stomach fake violence in games and movies but the reference photos really mess with you. In art school we had to use some reference for anatomy that I found pretty disturbing, and they were only pieces of meat in a lab. My teacher had to look at real crime scenes.

 

[TimeFire]

It's not a matter of them just animating gory shit. They animated gory shit all the time, it's just that it was silly, crude, and cartoony before. It's that in order to "do it right" in this heavily realistically rendered game, you're researching how graphically anatomy gets fucked up, viewing really disturbing images. "Look how intestines fall out of someone as they get cut in half to make it look accurate." "How do certain organs look after they've been crushed and destroyed?" "How does skin peel after it's charred from searing flames?"

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Argh. I hate this. We don't need devs seeing innocent people dieing horrible deaths just so the silly ninja fighting game has more points in the realism meter. Gross. We don't need realistic depictions of any of that!

 

[lucebuce]

Yep, that's probably the biggest reason why I think they need to down down all the realistic violence and fatalities for the next game. I'd be fine with the brutalities replacing the fatalities going forward.

I don't want people to have to suffer PTSD and watch people dying just to make my vidya gaem murder more realistic.

 

[VariantX]

Yep, that's probably the biggest reason why I think they need to down down all the realistic violence and fatalities for the next game. I'd be fine with the brutalities replacing the fatalities going forward.

I don't want people to have to suffer PTSD and watch people dying just to make my vidya gaem murder more realistic.

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Brutalities are better for me as they're quicker. I think a line was crossed from killing the opponent in a flashy way to straight up prolonging suffering at some point.

 

[Zombine]

This is one of those stories where context is incredibly important as to why the devs developing the game found it emotionally and mentally draining.

At face value it sounds silly because many of us are desensitized to violence in media, but the concerning part of this story is how the devs seemed forced to be exposed to real life death and trauma to make the game more "realistic" when you could just as easily have that information provided to you in a less intrusive manner. Nobody should be exposed to real life death and tragedy for the sake of making more realistic entertainment.

 

[Deleted member 5129]

IIRC the developers of TLOU2 had a lot of say in the matter when it came to their position on the project. And...even a project like Uncharted has to have developers look at material that would be disturbing for the average person. On top of that iirc there is a lot of aftercare at ND compared to Netherrealm when it comes to the people who specifically have to look at disturbing material.

In short, not every studio working on violent games has the same situation.

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Ah, alright, that's great to hear!

 

[MrWindUpBird]

I was in marching band in high school and our show one year focused on a guy abducting young girls and throwing their bodies in a river. My mental health got so bad that year by having to practice every day after school for 4-6 hours on such a dark subject matter. I'm not shocked at all that these developers were mentally affected by having to be surrounded by brutal violence every day.

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Sounds like your band teacher should have been fired. I was in marching band during high school as well and we never, ever came close to a subject matter like that. We did shit based on Spam-a-lot, Nightmare Before Christmas, We Might Be Giants, etc.

 

[Chromie]

Yup. This and last of us especially seem to have a real toll on the devs. Doesn't seem worth it.

 

[KDC720]

Reminds of how developers looked at photos of car crash victims to get the looks of the necromorphs in Dead Space.

A lot of the fatalities in 11 were proper messed up, usually in an over the top way, but I imagine the artists having to not only be anatomically accurate and painstakingly render every gorey detail could take a huge toll mentally.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Ah, alright, that's great to hear!

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Some ND developers spoke up on twitter about their experience at ND specifically because people kept weaponizing using this article against Neil Druckmann despite it being a different studio entirely.

 

[Chief Malik]

Extreme over the top violence has always been cornball shit IMO and although I like mk, I like it for all the stuff other than that and wonder if people would still care about it without it.

 

[MrConbon210]

Sounds like your band teacher should have been fired. I was in marching band during high school as well and we never, ever came close to a subject matter like that. We did shit based on Spam-a-lot, Nightmare Before Christmas, We Might Be Giants, etc.

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It's pretty standard in competitive band shows. I remember seeing one show at Grand Nationals Finals about the Holocaust. The band was wearing gas masks and used fog machines around the field to simulate the chambers. My show the year before this one was about Russia and we ended the show by being gunned down by opposing forces.

 

[Akela]

Wow, that's quite interesting. I think i've become insensistive to this. I don't think MK(Or any game while at that) to be graphic at all.

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It's not the animations themselves which are fucked up, it's the real life references they needed to look at to make it accurate:

"You'd walk around the office and one guy would be watching hangings on YouTube, another guy would be looking at pictures of murder victims, someone else would be watching a video of a cow being slaughtered," they said. "The scary part was always the point at which new people on the project got used to it. And I definitely hit that point."

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[Kemono]

Nobody should have to create these things but if you're willing i don't see any problems.

Important would be to let people say they had enough so that other would continue.

Some people can handle this stuff better than others.

 

[Thorn]

Its especially frustrating because I know so many fans of MK who are like "It doesn't need to be this realistic."

 

[Chief Malik]

Reminds of how developers looked at photos of car crash victims to get the looks of the necromorphs in Dead Space.

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!!!???

 

[arsene_P5]

Wow, that's quite interesting. I think i've become insensistive to this. I don't think MK(Or any game while at that) to be graphic at all.

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I haven't read the new article mind you, but I remember developers of these violent games looking at real violence, so they can replicate this in games. This is what leads to them suffering from mental health issues. Think about watching videos of someone getting killed, if you work at a court.

 

[Crossing Eden]

!!!???

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Developers of violent games, even when game looked much more stylized, referenced real world violence in order to sell the look of violence in their game. Especially in the horror genre. Real life reference in general is used for almost every aspect of visuals, however, violence in particular stands out for pretty obvious reasons. You don't achieve shit like this, CW:

Spoiler

Without an incredibly intimate understanding of how messed up human bodies can get compared to the average person. And exposure to that can lead to desensitization and/or in the case of others, PTSD. It depends on several factors.

 

[arsene_P5]

Same, i watched tons of gory horror movies while growing up so stuff like MK11 fatalities don't irk me at all.

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I think you guys are missing the point. They aren't getting mental health issues from playing their game. They are getting these issues, because they sometimes look at real crimes and try to replicate the violence one way or the other.

 

[DaveB]

Look, I get it... Having to "research" graphic images to make sure the gore in the game is authentic is pretty fucked up. But at the same time, you got a job at a studio that works on a game that's been known for depicting acts of extreme violence for decades. If you took the job knowing that, you kind of consented to being exposed to some fucked up shit for concept and design work.

It's like someone becoming a gynecologist and complaining about having to see some very gross lady parts inches from their face daily. lol

 

[Deleted member 12867]

I think you guys are missing the point. They aren't getting mental health issues from playing their game. They are getting these issues, because they sometimes look at real crimes and try to replicate the violence one way or the other.

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Yeah, that kind of stuff can really fuck with you. I remember seeing a liveleaks-esque video of a suicide when I was younger and it's still one of the most vivid memories I have. This definitely shouldn't be encouraged at all.

Look, I get it... Having to "research" graphic images to make sure the gore in the game is authentic is pretty fucked up. But at the same time, you got a job at a studio that works on a game that's been known for depicting acts of extreme violence for decades. If you took the job knowing that, you kind of consented to being exposed to some fucked up shit for concept and design work.

It's like someone becoming a gynecologist and complaining about having to see some very gross lady parts inches from their face daily. lol

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Honestly I wouldn't expect that as a requirement. There is no shortage of fictional violence that almost always looks more impressive than real violence anyway. No one should be expected to watch actual violence to perform their job.

 

[arsene_P5]

Yeah, that kind of stuff can really fuck with you. I remember seeing a liveleaks-esque video of a suicide when I was younger and it's still one of the most vivid memories I have. This definitely shouldn't be encouraged at all.


Honestly I wouldn't expect that as a requirement. There is no shortage of fictional violence that almost always looks more impressive than real violence anyway. No one should be expected to watch actual violence to perform their job.

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This.

Look, I get it... Having to "research" graphic images to make sure the gore in the game is authentic is pretty fucked up. But at the same time, you got a job at a studio that works on a game that's been known for depicting acts of extreme violence for decades. If you took the job knowing that, you kind of consented to being exposed to some fucked up shit for concept and design work.

It's like someone becoming a gynecologist and complaining about having to see some very gross lady parts inches from their face daily. lol

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Horrible and shocking take. Have you ever seen real brutal violence? What people expect to feel and how they feel when they see it are totally different outcomes. I can tell you that.

So even if you are a police officer, someone at court, medic, ... , you can suffer from mental health issues after you've seen things you'd never thought you would see or you see things you "expected" to see, but it effected your mental health much more than you thought. That's bad enough, but we are talking about developers here. Developers. They shouldn't "expect" to be confronted with real violence.