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Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,924
Yet being intoxicated is not accetable culturally and lawfully. Drinking alchohol is up to the individual, and the consequences with it. If anything, your takeaway should be that the society is not capable of responsibly consuming alchohol, and legalizing more drugs would not lead to good outcomes.
That's false.

Legalizing cocaine likely could have prevented these deaths, so I'm failing to understand your second point. Banning substances create black market solutions with no regulation which lead to this the subject of this thread becoming commonplace.
 

Vonocourt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,628
I wasn't going to comment anymore but I do hope any of the above doesn't reference me. I am far away from conservative, always very much left, advocated for gay rights etc etc. I am not exposed to "right wing media" etc. So please don't label different viewpoints like this. I came in saying drugs are evidently dangerous, while also feeling for the victims who clearly made a mistake and yet get chastised for "victim blaming", "drugs are common for partying dude" etc. Please bring some nuance in your life, different viewpoints not always mean the other is some right wing nutcase, as the political spectrum is much much wider then that outside of the American political system And yes, before the question comes up again I believe alcohol and tobacco are drugs as well.
And yet you fall to right-wing narrative about drug use... weird.

And dawg, stop bringing up "nuance," you already shot yourself in the foot like square enix on that front.
 

Kazooie

Member
Jul 17, 2019
5,039
Cocaine is about as "safe" as alcohol, only being more dangerous cus of stigmatization and lack of regulation. I stay far away from coke and others should too, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of the people dunking on dead people
I am a huge opponent of alcohol (you could not pay me to take in that shit), but it is pretty clear that cocaine is the worse substance of the two. It is an opioid afterall...

It's really strange how we as a society have decided to just wash over the fact that alcohol is an extremely dangerous substance and leads to more drug related deaths than almost all other 'heavy drugs' combined.
Absolute numbers are bullshit when comparing a rarely used illegal drug and a heavily used legal one.

This is an almost childlike view of things.

Do you want to lift the lid on aspects like substance use and abuse rates being far higher among the gay and trans community. To consider why that might be and how the advice of 'you shouldn't do that' is meaningless in the face of why people turn to exploring drugs and ultimately finding solace in them.

Do you want to break down how when you don't have the language to explain what's 'wrong' with you but all you know is that being high can pacify that feeling, that you're actually pretending you don't contribute to problems in society? That you're absolving yourself of personal responsibility by turning to the one thing you've found that allows you to function in life, and creates distance between you and the pain that has led you and others like you to consider suicide.

If you're going to discuss this, discuss it on the terms in which it actually manifests instead of this juvenile 'good or bad' sense.
I'd still say treating all drugs as universally bad is a very safe valuation and even one that protects against what you describe here. If a person never consumes any drug, then the person will never get to "know that being high can pacify that feeling". That does not solve the core issue of course (a lack of understanding and empathy with people who deviate from the norm), but drug consumption is not a solution to that either.
 

DongBeetle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,017
I am a huge opponent of alcohol (you could not pay me to take in that shit), but it is pretty clear that cocaine is the worse substance of the two. It is an opioid afterall...


Absolute numbers are bullshit when comparing a rarely used illegal drug and a heavily used legal one.


I'd still say treating all drugs as universally bad is a very safe valuation and even one that protects against what you describe here. If a person never consumes any drug, then the person will never get to "know that being high can pacify that feeling". That does not solve the core issue of course (a lack of understanding and empathy with people who deviate from the norm), but drug consumption is not a solution to that either.
You need to elaborate the mechanisms in which you believe coke causes more harm than alcohol

Again, not all drugs are the same. They're all very different
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,711
I wasn't going to comment anymore but I do hope any of the above doesn't reference me. I am far away from conservative, always very much left, advocated for gay rights etc etc. I am not exposed to "right wing media" etc. So please don't label different viewpoints like this. I came in saying drugs are evidently dangerous, while also feeling for the victims who clearly made a mistake and yet get chastised for "victim blaming", "drugs are common for partying dude" etc. Please bring some nuance in your life, different viewpoints not always mean the other is some right wing nutcase, as the political spectrum is much much wider then that outside of the American political system And yes, before the question comes up again I believe alcohol and tobacco are drugs as well.

What did you hope to achieve by reminding us that drugs can be dangerous, like that's revelatory? With no further context it does read as victim blaming because what else could it be interpreted as?


I'd still say treating all drugs as universally bad is a very safe valuation and even one that protects against what you describe here. If a person never consumes any drug, then the person will never get to "know that being high can pacify that feeling". That does not solve the core issue of course (a lack of understanding and empathy with people who deviate from the norm), but drug consumption is not a solution to that either.

Assuming you're talking recreational drugs, treating every drug as universally bad is a terrible idea and only serves as more misinformation. You're talking about something that has always been part of the human experience and has in many instances been used responsibly both socially and therapeutically.
 
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Cheesebu

Cheesebu

Wrong About Cheese
Member
Sep 21, 2020
6,177
You want to gacha me into admitting that I like achohol or support it?

No, I don't. But I will acknowledge that alchohol is a known evil, taught and regulated, culturally/traditionally acceptable and in most cases, making it illegal would never work in a democratic country.

Yet being intoxicated is not accetable culturally and lawfully. Drinking alchohol is up to the individual, and the consequences with it. If anything, your takeaway should be that the society is not capable of responsibly consuming alchohol, and legalizing more drugs would not lead to good outcomes.

Cheesebu You gotta point me to the model of the country which has the best policies/cultural norms when it comes to drugs outside smoking/drinking. I guarantee you, it will not have legal coke. The model of labeling everyone a hardline conservative who doesn't support mass drug legalization sounds crazy, and I would like to see it work before I change my mind.



Dude there are celebration threads when conservatives die from covid. The countdown party for "is he dead yet"...
You're pretty transparent, do you know that? You're just going to keep changing the subject whenever someone makes you look foolish. You just accused me of threatening to beat people up that I disagree with, and now you want help with your geography homework. FOH 😂
 

DryCreek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,987
This is an almost childlike view of things.

Do you want to lift the lid on aspects like substance use and abuse rates being far higher among the gay and trans community. To consider why that might be and how the advice of 'you shouldn't do that' is meaningless in the face of why people turn to exploring drugs and ultimately finding solace in them.

Do you want to break down how when you don't have the language to explain what's 'wrong' with you but all you know is that being high can pacify that feeling, that you're actually pretending you don't contribute to problems in society? That you're absolving yourself of personal responsibility by turning to the one thing you've found that allows you to function in life, and creates distance between you and the pain that has led you and others like you to consider suicide.

If you're going to discuss this, discuss it on the terms in which it actually manifests instead of this juvenile 'good or bad' sense.

I dont think you understood what i said?

I can empathize with people that take drugs and understand why they do it, but I still dont think they should, I dont think these statements are in conflict with each other. Buying and taking drugs isn't a neutral act. as it currently stands buying drugs props up huge organised crime networks that leads to terrible outcomes for people in venerable situations.


Also those that abuse substances to the point where it has a negative impact on those around them. i cant blame anyone for not having much empathy for people like that. over time you just have to let go of people that are that destructive for your own health.

This of course is all an argument for decriminalisation and regulation, I'm not arguing for the war on drugs. but in the meantime people that buy and take illegal drugs aren't doing a morally neutral act and your personal situation doesn't negate the shit that these activities contribute to.
 
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Cheesebu

Cheesebu

Wrong About Cheese
Member
Sep 21, 2020
6,177
I am a huge opponent of alcohol (you could not pay me to take in that shit), but it is pretty clear that cocaine is the worse substance of the two. It is an opioid afterall...


Absolute numbers are bullshit when comparing a rarely used illegal drug and a heavily used legal one.


I'd still say treating all drugs as universally bad is a very safe valuation and even one that protects against what you describe here. If a person never consumes any drug, then the person will never get to "know that being high can pacify that feeling". That does not solve the core issue of course (a lack of understanding and empathy with people who deviate from the norm), but drug consumption is not a solution to that either.
Cocaine is not an opioid lol. Where the fuck did you even hear that
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,259
I dont think you understood what i said?
I understood perfectly...
This of course is an argument for legalisation and regulation, im not arguing for the war on drugs. but in the meantime people that buy and take illegal drugs aren't doing a morally neutral act and your personal situation doesn't negate the shit that these activities contribute to.
...it seems you didn't understand what I wrote though. Unless you meant to put across a vile and callous response like this.
 

giallo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,247
Seoul
Unbelievably tragic. Damn.

A few years ago in Vancouver, some teenagers died after ingesting fentanyl-laced MDMA. One of the safest, least lethal drugs on the planet killed some people that just wanted to chill out and have a good time together.

Speaking for my country, and I've been saying this for years now, the Canadian government has blood on its hands for each dead kid and adult that consumes laced drugs. Say what you will about cocaine, but no one should be dying from doing a line or a bump. It's the fact that our government lets the black market regulate it that allows this to happen. The Canadian government regulates alcohol (which was an extremely dangerous drug during the American prohibition), so why not equally dangerous drugs? Why do we let something so dangerous and unregulated slip by constantly?
 

DryCreek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,987
User Banned (2 Weeks): Dismissive Commentary, Concern Trolling Over a Series of Posts; Recent Prior Ban for Concern Trolling
I understood perfectly...

...it seems you didn't understand what I wrote though. Unless you meant to put across a vile and callous response like this.

whats vile and callous about it lmao, its the truth you jsut dont seem to want to engage with it for some reason.

i can be just as disingenuous if you want and say that you dont care about gangs threatening physical and sexual violence against minors solong as you get your high. how vile and callous is that!
 

Vonocourt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,628
This of course is an argument for decriminalisation and regulation, I'm not arguing for the war on drugs. but in the meantime people that buy and take illegal drugs aren't doing a morally neutral act and your personal situation doesn't negate the shit that these activities contribute to.
Weird, people doing what they can to continue to exist in a fucked system do what they can to exist even if it means the briefest respite.

No one is saying this is good overall.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,711
but in the meantime people that buy and take illegal drugs aren't doing a morally neutral act and your personal situation doesn't negate the shit that these activities contribute to.

Well its a good thing we have you here to measure millions of peoples personal situations and moral compasses for us.
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,637
How common is it that your stuff is laced? And how much did it need to be for them to be dying right there on the spot? Just imagining what the situation was like is horrifying. One moment you were trying to celebrate and the other you are dying.
It's common for it to be cut with something else with a 50-50 ratio, but usually it's harmless stuff like creatine. Infact I don't think any street dealer would sell an uncut drug when they can just put something else in to make more money per gram.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,259
i can be just as disingenuous if you want and say that you dont care about gangs threatening physical and sexual violence against minors solong as you get your high. how vile and callous is that!
I'm not the one coming into a thread on drug deaths to look down on people who take drugs and shame them. If you want to talk about sexual violence against minors, talk about it. Or do you only campaign against it when it allows you to feel morally superior to people who take illegal drugs, many of whom are people who have experienced sexual abuse and violence as children.

The flippant way in which you bring this out and the sanctimonious manner in which you discuss this topic in a thread about drug deaths is what's vile and callous. Ignoring all substance in responses just to continue adding inches to your pedestal.
 

HStallion

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
62,262
whats vile and callous about it lmao, its the truth you jsut dont seem to want to engage with it for some reason.

i can be just as disingenuous if you want and say that you dont care about gangs threatening physical and sexual violence against minors solong as you get your high. how vile and callous is that!

This is a thread about a couple people dying from laced drugs at a party. If you're really concerned about these kinds of things make a thread about it.
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,787
Someone who barely posts but isn't gonna miss a chance to dunk on dead people. Some stories just bring the trash ass people on this forum out of the gutter.

I love this place but what the fuck do people get out of shaming the dead and ignoring what addiction can do to people.
They were doing cocaine at a party. There's not even a reason to assume these people were addicts at all.
While I agree that decriminalising drug consumption is the right thing to do, the quoted poster has a point in that it is a questionable decision to buy a substance from an illegal vendor. Not exactly the most trustworthy seller of something to put into your body (also taking drugs itself is of course a questionable life decision). However, this of course does not excuse the illegal vendor from poisoning the consumers with something they did not ask for.
There's no such thing as a legal vendor though.
 

Kazooie

Member
Jul 17, 2019
5,039
You need to elaborate the mechanisms in which you believe coke causes more harm than alcohol
More addictive, more often deadly (relatively speaking), exclusively consumed in a way that the consumer is intoxicated.

Assuming you're talking recreational drugs, treating every drug as universally bad is a terrible idea and only serves as more misinformation. You're talking about something that has always been part of the human experience and has in many instances been used responsibly both socially and therapeutically.
Of course I am talking about recreational drug use. I think treating them as universally bad and to be avoided like the plague is the right thing to do, but at the same time, prosecuting consumers is idiotic, because they are victimising themselves and no one else by consuming them, so it does not make sense for me to prosecute it.
 

DongBeetle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,017
More addictive, more often deadly (relatively speaking), exclusively consumed in a way that the consumer is intoxicated.


Of course I am talking about recreational drug use. I think treating them as universally bad and to be avoided like the plague is the right thing to do, but at the same time, prosecuting consumers is idiotic, because they are victimising themselves and no one else by consuming them, so it does not make sense for me to prosecute it.
The only reason it is more deadly is because of lack of regulation, like I said. Alcohol causes more harm
 

Sanka

Banned
Feb 17, 2019
5,778
You are going to beat people for having opinions about drugs that are different from yours?

Someone wrote a statement about how doing heavy drugs is similar to the increased risk of cancer from drinking. Do you think that was a good comparison? Some of the comments were absolving individuals from all the blame/risks, and I just don't see how this is the case. It is a heavy culture clash to see how acceptable use of coke is in US.



I have no stake, and quite a limited knowledge, but you gotta be blind to suggest that acceptable/use of coke isn't influenced by the US culture. You can see the gradient from US, rolling through the Europe.

Prevalence_of_cocaine_use_as_percentage_of_population_by_country_gradient_map_%282009%29.svg
Portugal's drug policiy while not perfect shows quite a lot of merit considering the high rates in its neighbouring country Spain. No idea what's going on in Spain tho.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,711
I think treating them as universally bad and to be avoided like the plague is the right thing to do

This doesn't even make sense to me unless its just a really roundabout way to say that you just don't want to do drugs yourself. Someone having a glass of wine with dinner is obviously not comparable to someone taking party drugs, or getting really drunk. Treating them all as "just as bad" is just more misinformation that leads to poor understanding and harmful decision making which is already a problem.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,960
You're pretty transparent, do you know that? You're just going to keep changing the subject whenever someone makes you look foolish. You just accused me of threatening to beat people up that I disagree with, and now you want help with your geography homework. FOH 😂

I think you have a delusion where everybody who don't share your opinion is a hardline conservative.

I told you, not a single liberal government in EU has legalized coke. Your opinion that drugs (coke in this case) should be legal is untested.

Banning alcohol would lead to spiking, lacing, etc. It would lead to countless preventable deaths. That's the issue with banning shit. Being intoxicated is definitely acceptable culturally lol wtf? Where do you live? If you're not being belligerent people think drunk people are funny lol

How can we see it work if you don't believe in unbanning it? How is it not working for weed? What the fuck

Maybe acceptable in the closed circle, but not publically. You will be avoided, or sit babbling to yourself at the bar, I am talking drunk not one beer at the bar with most cognitive functions working. Regardless of that level (from babbling to falling to pissing themselves), it is never funny to me.

Weed side effects and addictiveness is different, it is better than alchohol. It just is, this is why the support is much greater. And as a government, you draw the line where everybody who does more addictive or stronger drugs (including large % of alchohol) has to be reformed or disincentivized to do so.

Portugal's drug policiy while not perfect shows quite a lot of merit considering the high rates in its neighbouring country Spain. No idea what's going on in Spain tho.

Portugal's drug policy is the best of both worlds. Drugs are illegal, but de-criminalized, and strong government assistance/reformation/intervention. Sale and production are still illegal.
 
Dec 30, 2020
15,293
This is horrifying and the first time I've heard of fentanyl. You're telling me someone out there wanted cocaine to be MORE addictive? It's freaking cocaine.
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,637
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HStallion

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
62,262
Maybe acceptable in the closed circle, but not publically. You will be avoided, or sit babbling to yourself at the bar, I am talking drunk not one beer at the bar with most cognitive functions working. Regardless of that level (from babbling to falling to pissing themselves), it is never funny to me.

Weed side effects and addictiveness is different, it is better than alchohol. It just is, this is why the support is much greater. And as a government, you draw the line where everybody who does more addictive or stronger drugs (including large % of alchohol) has to be reformed or disincentivized to do so.

This probably depends on your country but being shitfaced in public is not exactly something you will be ostracized about. Oh sure if you're getting into brawls and pissing on people's property the police might get involved but I've been too sporting events where more than 75% of the crowd is incredibly drunk and its not just accepted, its damn near encouraged. Try going to the party thrown for any sports team that wins a major event. Shit gets crazy and alcohol is basically a given.
 

DongBeetle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,017
I think you have a delusion where everybody who don't share your opinion is a hardline conservative.

I told you, not a single liberal government in EU has legalized coke. Your opinion that drugs (coke in this case) should be legal is untested.



Maybe acceptable in the closed circle, but not publically. You will be avoided, or sit babbling to yourself at the bar, I am talking drunk not one beer at the bar with most cognitive functions working. Regardless of that level (from babbling to falling to pissing themselves), it is never funny to me.

Weed side effects and addictiveness is different, it is better than alchohol. It just is, this is why the support is much greater. And as a government, you draw the line where everybody who does more addictive or stronger drugs (including large % of alchohol) has to be reformed or disincentivized to do so.



Portugal's drug policy is the best of both worlds. Drugs are illegal, but de-criminalized, and strong government assistance/reformation/intervention. Sale and production are still illegal.
Drunk people are accepted in restaurants and a shit ton of night time recreational activities lmao not just in bars

jndont really understand your weed point lol like yeah no shit the support is better but it's lead to ethical means of obtaining and prevented countless deaths. That's the argument for legalization and you see it working yet you don't believe in it?
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,637
This probably depends on your country but being shitfaced in public is not exactly something you will be ostracized about. Oh sure if you're getting into brawls and pissing on people's property but I've been too sporting events where more than 75% of the crowd is drunk and rowdy as can be and its not just accepted, its damn near encouraged.
I remember I was walking home once and had to go through the nightclub area and it was freshers week, there was a long queue of students waiting to get inside a club. And one guy moved aside and threw up on the road, the whole crowd cheered as if he passed a rite of passage.
 
Nov 9, 2017
3,777
Meth and heroin/fentanyl should not be legal. These are drugs that absolutely tear people's lives apart and cause uncontrollable addictions.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,984
The sheer ignorence many of you have regarding drugs and drug use is astounding.

Even with that aside. If your first thought when coming into a thread on this topic is "but drugs are bad, be responsible" then you desperately need some education here.
 
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Cheesebu

Cheesebu

Wrong About Cheese
Member
Sep 21, 2020
6,177
I think you have a delusion where everybody who don't share your opinion is a hardline conservative.

I told you, not a single liberal government in EU has legalized coke. Your opinion that drugs (coke in this case) should be legal is untested.



Maybe acceptable in the closed circle, but not publically. You will be avoided, or sit babbling to yourself at the bar, I am talking drunk not one beer at the bar with most cognitive functions working.

Weed side effects and addictiveness is different, it is better than alchohol. It just is, this is why the support is much greater. And as a government, you draw the line where everybody who does more addictive or stronger drugs (including large % of alchohol) has to be reformed or disincentivized to do so.



Portugal's drug policy is the best of both worlds. Drugs are illegal, but de-criminalized, and strong government assistance/reformation/intervention. Sale and production are still illegal.
What the fuck do I care if it's tested or not? I believe drugs should be decriminalized and best case scenario, sold legally and safely. The fuck does any of this have to do with government bodies in Europe? It would be cool if they did the same, but what country are you even talking about that's apparently a democratic utopia we should all be striving to match?
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,984
Meth and heroin/fentanyl should not be legal. These are drugs that absolutely tear people's lives apart and cause uncontrollable addictions.
So does alcohol.

All narcotics should be legalised and carefully controlled with proper surrounding support structures. Otherwise unsafe blsckmarkets arrive and the impact is far, far worse.
 

Tobor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,515
Richmond, VA
I dunno what this means, sorry 😣 I'm not very tech literate, I just pasted it from my address bar on my iPhone

No worries. An Amp link means the page is cached on Google servers rather than seeing it on the original website. I don't want to derail but it's not ideal.

www.latimes.com

Three dead of overdose early Saturday morning in Venice, including comic Fuquan Johnson

Three people died early Saturday morning in Venice after overdosing, reportedly on fentanyl-laced cocaine.

Thank you. Fentanyl is evil.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,960
This probably depends on your country but being shitfaced in public is not exactly something you will be ostracized about. Oh sure if you're getting into brawls and pissing on people's property the police might get involved but I've been too sporting events where more than 75% of the crowd is incredibly drunk and its not just accepted, its damn near encouraged. Try going to the party thrown for any sports team that wins a major event. Shit gets crazy and alcohol is basically a given.

And once the event is over, everybody calls uber and nobody drives drunk, basically 100% responsible society when on alchohol.

This is the downside ;(

Drunk people are accepted in restaurants and a shit ton of night time recreational activities lmao not just in bars

jndont really understand your weed point lol like yeah no shit the support is better but it's lead to ethical means of obtaining and prevented countless deaths. That's the argument for legalization and you see it working yet you don't believe in it?

I see the downside in drugs becoming much more prevalent both legally and culturally. You have to balance the risks of such society, where you save some people from black-market drugs, yet you open paths for way more people to consume drugs that might otherwise not do so. This is where legalizing much more addictives drugs would be a hard no for me.

What the fuck do I care if it's tested or not? I believe drugs should be decriminalized and best case scenario, sold legally and safely. The fuck does any of this have to do with government bodies in Europe? It would be cool if they did the same, but what country are you even talking about that's apparently a democratic utopia we should all be striving to match?

Because there are governments in Europe who dealt with the widespread drug abuse in an effective way, and it wasn't legalization, and it wasn't war on drugs.

Your previous claim was legalize drugs. There is a huge difference between legalize and decriminalize.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,984
And once the event is over, everybody calls uber and nobody drives drunk, basically 100% responsible society when on alchohol.

This is the downside ;(



I see the downside in drugs becoming much more prevalent both legally and culturally. You have to balance the risks of such society, where you save some people from black-market drugs, yet you open paths for way more people to consume drugs that might otherwise not do so.




Because there are governments in Europe who dealt with the widespread drug abuse in an effective way, and it wasn't legalization, and it wasn't war on drugs.

Your previous claim was legalize drugs. There is a huge difference between legalize and decriminalize.
They dealt with them well enough that you think that is where it should stop?

This is a global issue, anyway. Legalisation would help dismantle many criminal networks that cause immense harm that are powered by drug sales.
 

MazeHaze

Member
Nov 1, 2017
8,583
So tragic RIP. I lost my best friend to an accidental fentanyl overdose a couple years ago, he had a son on the way. I hope their families can find peace eventually, it's such a hard situation to grapple with. Tomorrow is never guaranteed.
 
Nov 9, 2017
3,777
So does alcohol.

All narcotics should be legalised and carefully controlled with proper surrounding support structures. Otherwise unsafe blsckmarkets arrive and the impact is far, far worse.

No the impact would be far worse if millions more people were exposed to drugs that are this uncontrollably addictive and life threatening. Portugal is the model most used as a "success story" and they have not legalized these drugs.
 

HStallion

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
62,262
And once the event is over, everybody calls uber and nobody drives drunk, basically 100% responsible society when on alchohol.

This is the downside ;(

Except that's not the point I was making. Being drunk in public with strangers is not something that is going to get you excluded or ostracized. I've been to St. Patrick's Day events in the US where people were wandering around drunk as fuck in the thousands and nobody was stopping them, quite the opposite.
 
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