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Those of us who lived through PS2's dominance of the sixth gen should count ourselves as lucky
- Thread starter ScOULaris
- Start date
Do you have anything to actually argue or are you just drive by insulting?
This thread is about younger generations missing out; so why is it "wtf" for me to point out anyone of any age right now could play the games talked about in the OP?
Maybe re-read the OP then my post; everything in my post is a direct reference to something said in the OP.
Your contribution to this thread is to insult me. Good stuff.
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OP
OP
Too young to remember SNES/Genesis? I got into gaming with the NES. I was fully immersed in the early 90's console warz.
OP
OP
This is exactly what I've been trying to say for so long. I love indie games. I spend more time playing indie games than anything else these days, and that's been the case for many years now.
But having a solid selection of indie releases throughout the year does not equate to what we had when much bigger developers/publishers were able to take chances with new game concepts due to the lower risk that came with sixth-gen development costs.
People really need to stop saying that the indie scene has replaced the AA of yesteryear. It never has and probably never will. Only the very best indie games accomplish that, and those are nowhere near as plentiful as the stream of content that we enjoyed during the sixth gen.
I literally just explained to you why I said what I did. I'm not trying to argue anything. Like your first paragraph:
You literally say the same thing twice, but as if they are two different statements. 'People bemon that games have more content, and also people bemoan that there is too much content, too.' And the statement at the end about 'how even a child could do it' seems kind of overly snarky and condescending, and just strikes me as a strange thing to say in general. I guess just the way you wrote that seemed odd and structured kind of like a copypasta. Didn't mean any offense really, I guess I just found the wording in your post odd.
EDIT: And I see you edited after I quoted you here. I know the OP is talking in part about the younger generation missing out on the PS2-era, but usually the phrasing of 'even a child could do it' is condescending in nature to say. Like you're basically calling someone stupid because even a young kid could do it. If you're not, it's just an odd things to say because a child isn't going to be able to have access to a lot of those games because they wouldn't be able to get a PS2 or even get like digital remasters on their own, unless you are talking about 'child' in the sense of teenagers and older with some disposable income. Lol, like I said, I didn't mean to insult you, I guess just the wording struck me as a bit strange, especially the end part.
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HD was the worst thing to happen to this industry. Completely killed all risk taking outside of the indie space and absolutely massacred the traditional industry's workforce; killing off more than half of its developers.
Then mobile gaming came along and, like the cancerous tumour that it is, infected and destroyed everything that still lived.
Then mobile gaming came along and, like the cancerous tumour that it is, infected and destroyed everything that still lived.
Saying someone's post "doesn't make sense" and not telling them why (aka arguing why) is not "explaining anything." Either is calling part of their post "weird" and "Wtf" without.. explaining why. It's just insulting.
Those sentences aren't saying the same thing; I'm addressing the OPs comment that people call games incomplete these days because they have MTX or add-ons later. I'm saying these people are ignoring that even those games are typically much larger than games of old . Many games with MTX also have people complaining they are too large; if a game is offering too much content for people then why does it matter if they sell MTX? Point being: today's games are massive.. not incomplete.. and MTX are easily ignored. The first sentence is not about people complaining about games "because" they have a ton of content; they are complaining games are incomplete because they have MTX.
I realize the first sentence isn't super clear; if you'd actually explained to me what didn't make sense, I'd have explained it to you.
Context matters; this is a thread about younger generations missing out on something. I'm merely pointing out that those games exist and can still be played, by anyone.. they'll be playable by people born 20 years from now. It wasn't snark.
Your response to me was snark.
GameCube was definitely one of my favorite consoles, the first one I bought with my own money.
Resident Evil remake, Resident Evil 4, Eternal Darkness, Metroid Prime, Metroid Prime 2, Rogue Squadron II, Rogue Squadron III, Thousand Year Door, Animal Crossing, Wind Waker, Mario Sunshine, Metal Gear Sold: The Twin Snakes, Beyond Good And Evil, Splinter Cell, Prince Of Persia: The Sands Of Time, Super Smash Bros. Melee, F-Zero GX, Time Splitters 2, Super Monkey Ball, Soul Calibur II..
Resident Evil remake, Resident Evil 4, Eternal Darkness, Metroid Prime, Metroid Prime 2, Rogue Squadron II, Rogue Squadron III, Thousand Year Door, Animal Crossing, Wind Waker, Mario Sunshine, Metal Gear Sold: The Twin Snakes, Beyond Good And Evil, Splinter Cell, Prince Of Persia: The Sands Of Time, Super Smash Bros. Melee, F-Zero GX, Time Splitters 2, Super Monkey Ball, Soul Calibur II..
AA games are still alive. Publishers like Devolver, THQ, Raw Fury, Annapurna etc. have tons of great games every year.
Because, as I said, I wasn't presenting an argument. All you said in response was 'huh,' and I explained myself.
Okay...if you realize this, why are you getting so defensive here? It should have been pretty clear why I was confused if you yourself understand what you're saying isn't clear.
You missed my edit much like I missed yours before lol. Like I said, no offense meant there and sorry if it seemed that way.
I was more into the GameCube at that time because I grew up with 2 brothers and we played a lot of multiplayer games. Because of that I often find that I missed out on certain PS2 series like Devil May Cry and a ton of JRPGs I wish I played when they were released. Don't get me wrong though, I played as much GTA, Final Fantasy, and Metal Gear as any other kid but I mostly touched the big name games. I wish I was more tuned into the PS2 when I was a kid cause it's hard to go back and play something like Xenogears with the PS2s terrible resolution.
All you did was explain that you drive-by posted in this thread because you thought my post didn't make sense, was weird and "Wtf." You didn't explain why my post didn't make sense, or your other insults of my post.
If you don't want to explain yourself (argue), then don't insult people's posts.
Because it took you actually pointing out what didn't make sense for me to realize it wasn't super clear. If you'd just... actually explained yourself then I'd have not told you that you were drive by insulting.. because it wouldn't be a drive-by insult.
Hence why you are supposed to explain yourself on this forum; to avoid the "offended" back and forth that occurs when you drive-by shit post.
I'm not sure if you're serious but HD was inevitable the industry was already steadily expanding. Some development houses couldn't transition, but I guarantee the creatives in those houses either went to different houses or work in the indie space.
I mean you talk of the indie space like it's a niche sub section in gaming totally ignoring that arguably the biggest games of the last decade have been indie games (Minecraft, Fortnite)
And mobile is it's own entity entirely, lf anything the gaming landscape has become so diverse where you can have your AAA Blockbuster game, zany indie title, or what candy crush is. On mobile.
I mean, to be honest, I've found your posting here a lot more of 'shit posting,' since you have been needlessly aggressive even as I've tried to be apologetic and insist on calling my stuff shit posting and drive-by even after I've explained things that should have cleared up anything since you clearly took some degree of offensive (despite you now acknowledging that what you said wasn't very clear). Not to mention you're now selecting ignoring comments just to try and continue an argument for some reason even after all this. But this is why we have ignore lists. Maybe try to be a little clearer in your posts next time, though I won't see them.
I'll never forget one day calling off work so I can play Dark Cloud 2 for 15 hrs straight. Amazing times indeed!!!!!
Look, I apologize if I come across aggressive and appreciate your apologetic tone. I wasn't selectively ignoring anything; I just didn't really have anything to say in response to your apology at that moment so I didn't quote it, but I do appreciate it.
Games did have patches and DLC back then, on Xbox at least.
Obviously not to the extent they're relied on now but they did exist and no doubt would have been more prevelant if more people had access to broadband.
Obviously not to the extent they're relied on now but they did exist and no doubt would have been more prevelant if more people had access to broadband.
OP
OP
I just started playing that copy of Dark Cloud 2 shown in the OP the other night. The story is... really something. 😄
While certain aspects of the game's design haven't aged all that well, I still really like the music, the art style, and the photography/inventions mechanics.
The PS1 era is the era you should feel fortunate enough to live through. There was so much absolute garbage that got thrown out there that I can live through anything now. Anthem wasn't a bad game when you lived through stuff like this.
I liked the PS2 generation a lot, but there are a lot of ways things have gotten better since then.
You can buy digitally instead of having to track down a physical disc.
Games load much faster on average thanks to SSDs.
Online gaming exists in a non-infancy state.
Graphics look so much nicer than they did before. If I had seen something that looked like Persona 5 during the PS2 era, I would have lost my mind.
Most big Japanese console games get localized and sometimes even get released at the same time.
If a game has bugs, they can be patched out.
The indie scene has exploded in popularity, whereas it barely existed back then.
You can play games on portable systems with much better tech than existed back then.
GaaS has resulted in some amazing games that just keep getting better over time.
You can get a ton of high quality free games (both freemium & giveaways).
You can buy digitally instead of having to track down a physical disc.
Games load much faster on average thanks to SSDs.
Online gaming exists in a non-infancy state.
Graphics look so much nicer than they did before. If I had seen something that looked like Persona 5 during the PS2 era, I would have lost my mind.
Most big Japanese console games get localized and sometimes even get released at the same time.
If a game has bugs, they can be patched out.
The indie scene has exploded in popularity, whereas it barely existed back then.
You can play games on portable systems with much better tech than existed back then.
GaaS has resulted in some amazing games that just keep getting better over time.
You can get a ton of high quality free games (both freemium & giveaways).
Not if you had a Gamecube
I remember always seeing an awesome commercial for a game, getting excited and immediately being crushed by hearing the words "only for the PS2" 😭
I remember always seeing an awesome commercial for a game, getting excited and immediately being crushed by hearing the words "only for the PS2" 😭
This is true, but it's also a bit disappointing for me because I love seeing new IPs and ideas. The AA space still has a ton of it but I find that a lot of the big budget stuff is just sequels or built on existing properties. Stuff looks like it's slowly changing(Kena, the Medium, etc) but I do miss the totally random stuff we got back then
tbh I felt like I was growing up faster than gaming during this gen. Graphics were improving but the writing etc still felt juvenile and it turned me off from gaming for a good few years. I played Halo at LAN parties and the occasional PC game, but I never owned a PS2 nor xbox nor gamecube.
The whole synthesis system back then was just amazing. I remember making a gun that I think was a tree branch that was overpowered as fuck but would constantly drain my health. Shit like that back then blew my mind that I created that out of synthesizing.
It was the only gen where I had owned all 3 consoles at various points in the gen. Played stuff like Ninja Gaiden, Crimson Skies, Wind Waker, MGS2, FFX, Halo, Grandia 3, REmake... I could go on for hours, such an amazing few years. I only had the PS2 through the whole gen and that probably would have been enough to fill my time, but the other two had some certified classics that should be considered unmissable
The variety was certainly different compared to now. Now we have a greater delineation in lower-budget games compared to the 6th gen with digital storefronts. You had greater number of third-party physically published games, sure, and that had its own a benefits. Concepts like DLC were sold in a multitude of ways (expansions, map disks and yes, downloadable content). Most generations have lessons and experiences to offer. I think indies/digital-storefronts probably leads to more games available now due to accessibility, but I'm not like checking numbers published or anything. The games are there, just in different places.
To the OPs point, I do agree that the 6th gen was a particularly interesting time in the business of gaming. It's interesting this comes up as my wife and I were talking about something somewhat related - the transformation of technology over time due to advancing technology. Those a little older will see just how much concepts have evolved from halcyon days. The 6th generation was effectively the developmental peak of "games as a finished product" if you will, versus the transition to "games as a service" even if early attempts like Halo 3 and COD Elite subscriptions fizzled. In concept of the experience a 6th gen or older game provided was more or less the same: a siloed experience that will (more likely than not) never change. It's ad-hoc in a way. Your exposure to what the world was doing with that game was tied to your world view, effectively.
In hindsight, the revolution of the 7th gen wasn't HD development and the increase in costs that entailed. Truly revolutionary ideas become general concepts, versus being tied to the form; anyone who played games in the 7th gen would point to widespread online networking being the true change. A connection to every console brought forth so many possibilities that Sony/MS/Nintendo could rely on. A living online storefront. Updates for games, updates for the console itself. Online communication, including online gaming itself. Of course all these aspects dabbled in gaming through the 90s, especially in the PC space. The simplest way of explaining it was prior to the 7th gen, we were told by the console manufacturers were were going online at your yearly E3/TGS/Gamescom/etc. In the 7th gen, we were actually online, finally. It was far more common and accessible versus the past. On top of increased online connectivity leading to a rise in things adjacent to games. Streaming, content creation, Discord, specialist forums, esports and competitive gaming being more accessible, etc.
The Wii is a bit transitionary, in my eyes, which speaks to Nintendo's perspective about game development online connectivity at the time. Of course, Virtual Console and WiiWare demonstrated Nintendo were well aware of the ability of delivering content through the internet. Yet they made game patching a rarity due to Wii peculiarities, which might have been driven by Nintendo's stance on delaying and pushing out finished products. On a broader scale, it almost makes sense they marched to their own beat given Nintendo's then-current "blue ocean" approach.
The conveniences of online networking has changed games and I agree with them in that sense. It's not all bad though it's not exactly taking a stand against The Man to say I want games to at least come out more feature complete and on reasonable timelines versus crunched out for mastering and then crunch again for a day 1 patch. I'm not a fan of introducing more luck-based gambling or gatcha aspects to games I've already paid for. On top of incessant microtransactions. Unfortunately many are fine with this and this is where parts of the industry are going.
This is not to say the 6th generation was without similar morally dubious issues. Halo 2's 2003 demo being a complete farce. CGI ads and trailers. Multiplatform games not being shown at all before release and coming out poorly on Xbox and especially GameCube are issues. And a mastered, un-updatable game is not necessarily a bug free one. Tons of games were still released broken or unoptimized, either due to interest, time or skill. There's a reason "licenced game" was a scourge.
Looking back it was certainly an interesting time. PS2 is still the world's best selling console. It achieved that for good reason through the years of consistent quality and how many landmark titles were released for it. The launch was incredible and unlike anything ever seen in games to that point. As a business model, it did represent the end of an era, one that did truly affect the games themselves, though I think it's more to do with how games evolved versus what games were.
To the OPs point, I do agree that the 6th gen was a particularly interesting time in the business of gaming. It's interesting this comes up as my wife and I were talking about something somewhat related - the transformation of technology over time due to advancing technology. Those a little older will see just how much concepts have evolved from halcyon days. The 6th generation was effectively the developmental peak of "games as a finished product" if you will, versus the transition to "games as a service" even if early attempts like Halo 3 and COD Elite subscriptions fizzled. In concept of the experience a 6th gen or older game provided was more or less the same: a siloed experience that will (more likely than not) never change. It's ad-hoc in a way. Your exposure to what the world was doing with that game was tied to your world view, effectively.
In hindsight, the revolution of the 7th gen wasn't HD development and the increase in costs that entailed. Truly revolutionary ideas become general concepts, versus being tied to the form; anyone who played games in the 7th gen would point to widespread online networking being the true change. A connection to every console brought forth so many possibilities that Sony/MS/Nintendo could rely on. A living online storefront. Updates for games, updates for the console itself. Online communication, including online gaming itself. Of course all these aspects dabbled in gaming through the 90s, especially in the PC space. The simplest way of explaining it was prior to the 7th gen, we were told by the console manufacturers were were going online at your yearly E3/TGS/Gamescom/etc. In the 7th gen, we were actually online, finally. It was far more common and accessible versus the past. On top of increased online connectivity leading to a rise in things adjacent to games. Streaming, content creation, Discord, specialist forums, esports and competitive gaming being more accessible, etc.
The Wii is a bit transitionary, in my eyes, which speaks to Nintendo's perspective about game development online connectivity at the time. Of course, Virtual Console and WiiWare demonstrated Nintendo were well aware of the ability of delivering content through the internet. Yet they made game patching a rarity due to Wii peculiarities, which might have been driven by Nintendo's stance on delaying and pushing out finished products. On a broader scale, it almost makes sense they marched to their own beat given Nintendo's then-current "blue ocean" approach.
The conveniences of online networking has changed games and I agree with them in that sense. It's not all bad though it's not exactly taking a stand against The Man to say I want games to at least come out more feature complete and on reasonable timelines versus crunched out for mastering and then crunch again for a day 1 patch. I'm not a fan of introducing more luck-based gambling or gatcha aspects to games I've already paid for. On top of incessant microtransactions. Unfortunately many are fine with this and this is where parts of the industry are going.
This is not to say the 6th generation was without similar morally dubious issues. Halo 2's 2003 demo being a complete farce. CGI ads and trailers. Multiplatform games not being shown at all before release and coming out poorly on Xbox and especially GameCube are issues. And a mastered, un-updatable game is not necessarily a bug free one. Tons of games were still released broken or unoptimized, either due to interest, time or skill. There's a reason "licenced game" was a scourge.
Looking back it was certainly an interesting time. PS2 is still the world's best selling console. It achieved that for good reason through the years of consistent quality and how many landmark titles were released for it. The launch was incredible and unlike anything ever seen in games to that point. As a business model, it did represent the end of an era, one that did truly affect the games themselves, though I think it's more to do with how games evolved versus what games were.
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Yeah I played games before and after this period. Sadly 2000-2004 I stopped playing games for other middle/high school stuff (sports, music) so I've had a great time going back and playing ps2 era stuff from then tho nothing will replace being there when it all happened
Yeah, gaming is still young and the medium is still maturing. The game design from the PS2 era has been perfected almost over 2 decades now. Even the design behind simple combat encounters is so much more refined today.
100%
People giving out about the lack of "complete packages" are just playing the wrong games.
It was a great gen, but I think being a kid with minimal responsibilities compared to today helped out a lot for many people and they overlook that. It was just a simpler time back then...
I think modern times are definitely better in terms of the gaming ecosystem. Maybe not for single player, but multiplayer, coop, and even local games (thanks to steam remote play and parsec) have never been better and that's the gaming I care about most. Discord is amazing and it makes the entire ecosystem a million times better for me.
But I do agree the best "classics" are from the ps2 gen.
I think modern times are definitely better in terms of the gaming ecosystem. Maybe not for single player, but multiplayer, coop, and even local games (thanks to steam remote play and parsec) have never been better and that's the gaming I care about most. Discord is amazing and it makes the entire ecosystem a million times better for me.
But I do agree the best "classics" are from the ps2 gen.
That gen had some amazing software and yeah pretty amazing stuff came out on all platforms. So everything was worthwhile owning. Not even a week passed by where I felt like there was not something fantastic to play. Oh, and I loved that 60fps was again so common everywhere after the sluggish 5th generation, where performance was at an all-time low. Not sure if you can say that it was the best generation as there are things coming out these days that are so far above anything that could be done during the sixth generation.
Yeah my bad, typed on phone. I meant to say some of you not you're. Sorry about that!
Games released with bugs and bad framerates too, which either couldn't be fixed or yo ¡u had to buy the game again (International versions). Even some regions got an inferior product because devs took the extra time from releasing a game to another region to patch some stuff and guess what? no updates too.
Heck I was the "happy" owner of TMNT DOS version.
I rather have my patches and my content updates through months without having to re-buy games than how it worked before.
Heck I was the "happy" owner of TMNT DOS version.
I rather have my patches and my content updates through months without having to re-buy games than how it worked before.
In the last couple years we have literally:
AAA Kojima game
AAA DMC game
AAA Rockstar game
AAA Final Fantasy
AAA Survival Horror (I know it's not Silent Hill, but if you like horror games, this is a golden age.)
AAA Platformers (Nintendo, Playroom)
We got a next gen Team ICO game, though it has been a few years since the last one.
Not really sure what's up with racing or arcade flight combat, and obviously we are in a decades long Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance drought.
Just kind of marveling at the idea we don't see these kind of games in AAA anymore. That market is dominated by shooters but the market is also bigger, so there's room for the other stuff to live as well.
Right now, today, is the best it's ever been to be into gaming.
FWIW, as a lifelong PC gamer, I have no nostalgia for the days before patches and expansion packs. I love patches.
AAA Kojima game
AAA DMC game
AAA Rockstar game
AAA Final Fantasy
AAA Survival Horror (I know it's not Silent Hill, but if you like horror games, this is a golden age.)
AAA Platformers (Nintendo, Playroom)
We got a next gen Team ICO game, though it has been a few years since the last one.
Not really sure what's up with racing or arcade flight combat, and obviously we are in a decades long Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance drought.
Just kind of marveling at the idea we don't see these kind of games in AAA anymore. That market is dominated by shooters but the market is also bigger, so there's room for the other stuff to live as well.
Right now, today, is the best it's ever been to be into gaming.
FWIW, as a lifelong PC gamer, I have no nostalgia for the days before patches and expansion packs. I love patches.
This is true, but it's also true of every gaming generation before it for various reasons.
I get the point of the DC/PS2/XB/GC era being the last one before console patches, micro-transactions, etc. but there were still many downsides to that period. Physical-only for niche games resulted in them having very low print runs and low exposure. Most of the hit indie/2d games of today would have had no chance of success back then. Accessibility options were poor; you often couldn't properly change the camera options in games or pause cutscenes. Online multiplayer options were limited on PS2.
And everyone, please stop assigning numbers to console generations. There has never been a universally agreed upon number of them no matter how much GAF/Era/Wikipedia tries to force this one view.
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Everyone is going to be biased about what they think the best years of gaming were, especially when age comes into it, but it's hard not to see 2001 & 2004 as better than anything last gen, 2017 was pretty good as a big hurrah for japanese gaming, but otherwise nothing too incredible.
7th gen absolutely sucked, the HD push that a lot of devs couldn't get over & focus on Call of Duty clones wasn't fun.
7th gen absolutely sucked, the HD push that a lot of devs couldn't get over & focus on Call of Duty clones wasn't fun.
There are so many games I enjoyed from the sixth gen, but funny enough I never bought a PS2 so barely played any games from it. I bought a Dreamcast day one by "accident" when I went to the local game store randomly on the launch day and saw the NFL 2k demo playing, and then bought it immediately. Later I bought the OG Xbox when it launched for Halo and Rallisport, since I had friends who owned the PS2 already I figured I could always use theirs if I every wanted to play PS2 exclusives. Reality was that I never did as I had more than enough to play on the Dreamcast then Xbox combo.
I only had a GameCube, but it was still an amazing gen of video games for me.
I didn't get a PS2 until 2010 or so, but getting caught up on some of the big games like Okami, MGS3, and SotC was quite a pleasure.
All that said... gaming is better now than ever.
I didn't get a PS2 until 2010 or so, but getting caught up on some of the big games like Okami, MGS3, and SotC was quite a pleasure.
All that said... gaming is better now than ever.
Ps2 generation was fun as it was an era where 3D games were still somewhat new, and dual stick controls had at last fixed the camera issues that plagued the previous gen.
the result was an explosion of creativity. As difficult as it was to code for the ps2 had few issues getting games out after the first year on the market.
I still own a ton of physical ps2 games, but am sad we'll never get a ps2 classic mini due to the same ip license issues that kept the psc from being a good release.
the result was an explosion of creativity. As difficult as it was to code for the ps2 had few issues getting games out after the first year on the market.
I still own a ton of physical ps2 games, but am sad we'll never get a ps2 classic mini due to the same ip license issues that kept the psc from being a good release.
Yeah that gen was the peak of head-to-head hardware/software competition IMO. I mostly played on GameCube and later Xbox when Ninja Gaiden came out.
Somehow I actually never bought a PS2..my buddy ended up just giving me his, he felt he had grown out of it, the system and his entire collection of games (30+) in like 2005.
Somehow I actually never bought a PS2..my buddy ended up just giving me his, he felt he had grown out of it, the system and his entire collection of games (30+) in like 2005.