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Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,174


Even in 2019 I find this visually mindblowing, but thinking about this being done in 1988? Holy smokes. These sort of tracking/long takes are essentially never done in animation because of how impractical and time-consuming they are, even nowadays, but this was all done long before digital animation took off, completely by hand.

(Also the original song is copyright blocked on YouTube so this version is in Spanish lol.)

Feel free to post other cool animation in this thread.
 

Alastor3

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,297
The year i was born, omg, will watch this!! Ia there a dub version ? Or should i go sub?
 

bulletyen

Member
Nov 12, 2017
1,309
Yooo, I was just thinking about this the other day. But hey, I can't agree with your exasperation that amazing animation was done in the 80s. Some of the greatest animation ever was all done prior to the digital age. Animators had mad drawings skills back then, much tighter than these days on average (not to say there aren't talented animators today, but their strengths lie elsewhere). It's simply because there was no cheating, every drawing had to be bang on in terms of draftsmenship and the standards where higher. Plus, bubble era japan had all the money being poured into these works...



Jin Roh to me is exemplary animation, simply because of its dedication to realism. Okiura and his team of animators were so amazingly talented as draftsmen and animators, they made people think this stuff was rotoscoped. Nope, they were just that good. Plus, I believe this is the last major anime film to be done on cel. Couldn't imagine a better send off. As a bonus, all the weapons and vehicles are hand animated. Can you imagine that today?

Speaking of vehicles, my favorite anime car chase, back when anime had guys who could animate mechanical things by hand:



And finally, here are some pencil tests for Akira. It's obviously shot on a potato, but don't confuse that shitty video quality for some of the craziest hand drawn animation that ever existed. Just look at the detail of every. single. frame:


There are so many great animators out there, just in anime alone, just the guys that have been around forever: hiroyuki imaishi, the yoshinari brothers, sushio, shinya ohira, hironori tanaka, takeshi honda, yutaka nakamura (trendsetter, and the greatestof them all, in my opinion), just to rattle out a few.

Today bahi JD, gosei oda, yoshimichi kameda are some of the notable ones who can stand with the best, but I don't watch anime much anymore.

Though not their best work, the relatively recent blade runner anime short, Blackout, showcases a who's who of some of anime's greatest, including the ones I mentioned. Their segments are easily identifiable.
 
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Wag

Member
Nov 3, 2017
11,638


Orange Rd. is on blu-ray now so definitely worth a watch.

80's and 90's hand drawn anime was spectacular at times. Vampire Hunter D anyone?
 

sonicmj1

Member
Oct 25, 2017
680
This is a 2005 show, but Eureka Seven's first ending credits sequence is also a single "tracking shot" which, after the first thirty seconds, moves continuously through the entire cast of the show. It's a pretty impressive piece of work in its own right.

 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,026


Even in 2019 I find this visually mindblowing, but thinking about this being done in 1988? Holy smokes. These sort of tracking/long takes are essentially never done in animation because of how impractical and time-consuming they are, even nowadays, but this was all done long before digital animation took off, completely by hand.

(Also the original song is copyright blocked on YouTube so this version is in Spanish lol.)

Feel free to post other cool animation in this thread.


Money. 1988 was bubble era Japan.
 

Jarmel

The Jackrabbit Always Wins
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,337
New York


Norimitsu Suzuki is a god at this.
This is a 2005 show, but Eureka Seven's first ending credits sequence is also a single "tracking shot" which, after the first thirty seconds, moves continuously through the entire cast of the show. It's a pretty impressive piece of work in its own right.



Edit: Welp got beaten
 
OP
OP
Mekanos

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,174
Yooo, I was just thinking about this the other day. But hey, I can't agree with your exasperation that amazing animation was done in the 80s. Some of the greatest animation ever was all done prior to the digital age. Animators had mad drawings skills back then, much tighter than these days on average (not to say there aren't talented animators today, but their strengths lie elsewhere). It's simply because there was no cheating, every drawing had to be bang on in terms of draftsmenship and the standards where higher. Plus, bubble era japan had all the money being poured into these works...

I agree, but even by the standards of 1980s TV anime, it was very rare to see an opening with that much put into it. OVAs and movies, absolutely. But TV anime was rarely like this.
 

TiC

Banned
Jul 12, 2019
609
Fun (?) fact, its source manga was published in Weekly Shonen Jump. It was running during the same time as Dragon Ball and Fist of the North Star! Such clashing genres.
 

bulletyen

Member
Nov 12, 2017
1,309
I agree, but even by the standards of 1980s TV anime, it was very rare to see an opening with that much put into it. OVAs and movies, absolutely. But TV anime was rarely like this.
You're right, it's an incredible sequence, hence I was thinking about it. I don't mean to downplay that. Should be celebrated for sure. Thank you for sharing this as a thread in celebration of cool animation!



Orange Rd. is on blu-ray now so definitely worth a watch.

80's and 90's hand drawn anime was spectacular at times. Vampire Hunter D anyone?

Vampire Hunter D had cool designs and was so moody and gritty. But I think as animation it could have been much better. It's sequel though...
 
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Wood Man

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,449
That was pretty cool. I started watching Orange Road for the first time a couple weeks ago. The first intro is freaking seizure inducing. It cuts are crazy. I like the song, I just can't look at it.

 

CursedOctopus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
888
I immediately knew exactly which song the title was referring to. KOR has the largest and best OSTs of all time.
 

kvetcha

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,835
Well that was charming.

OP, check out the Katsuhiro Otomo short Cannon Fodder from the film Memories. It's one 15 21! minute long take.


Yooo, I was just thinking about this the other day. But hey, I can't agree with your exasperation that amazing animation was done in the 80s. Some of the greatest animation ever was all done prior to the digital age. Animators had mad drawings skills back then, much tighter than these days on average (not to say there aren't talented animators today, but their strengths lie elsewhere). It's simply because there was no cheating, every drawing had to be bang on in terms of draftsmenship and the standards where higher. Plus, bubble era japan had all the money being poured into these works...



Jin Roh to me is exemplary animation, simply because of its dedication to realism. Okiura and his team of animators were so amazingly talented as draftsmen and animators, they made people think this stuff was rotoscoped. Nope, they were just that good. Plus, I believe this is the last major anime film to be done on cel. Couldn't imagine a better send off. As a bonus, all the weapons and vehicles are hand animated. Can you imagine that today?


I looove Jin-Roh, but it is from the late 90s. And honestly, I did think it was rotoscoped. Unreal that it wasn't.
 

furikuri

Member
Oct 28, 2017
156
Animators had mad drawings skills back then, much tighter than these days on average (not to say there aren't talented animators today, but their strengths lie elsewhere). It's simply because there was no cheating, every drawing had to be bang on and the standards where higher.

This seems a bit biased, don't you think? Not only is this purely subjective (and impossible to prove), it almost seems insulting to imply that today's animators are less skilled, they're "cheating" (?), or that they aren't held to a high standard. I highly recommend that you check out sakugablog and sakugabooru—there are plenty of examples of quality animation in newer anime, and no shortage of talented animators!

Anyway, at the risk of sounding all "well, acktually", I don't think it's fair to use movies like Jin-Roh and Akira (titles that are renowned for their high production values) as proof that older anime were unequivocally "better" in terms of production values, or that animators were "more talented" back then. If you dig deep enough, you can find plenty of older titles that suffer from poor artwork, animation, and direction (and contrary to popular belief, OVAs and movies were no exception). Things were definitely not "bang on" all of the time, although people's tendency to cherry-pick the "best" examples of older anime may lead one to believe otherwise. There are good and bad works in every decade.

Anyway, these links may be of interest:
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post?tags=mob_psycho_100
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post?tags=kimetsu_no_yaiba
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post?tags=koudai_watanabe
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post?tags=yuki_hayashi
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post?tags=naoki_kobayashi
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post?tags=shingo_yamashita
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post?tags=hiroyuki_yamashita
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post?tags=megumi_kouno
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post?tags=takashi_kojima
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post?tags=itsuki_tsuchigami
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post?tags=masayuki_kunihiro
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post?tags=nozomu_abe
https://blog.sakugabooru.com/category/animes-future/
https://blog.sakugabooru.com/category/sakuga-bowl/
https://blog.sakugabooru.com/category/analysis/
https://blog.sakugabooru.com/category/anime-industry/
https://blog.sakugabooru.com/2017/0...and-i-have-to-write-that-anime-is-hand-drawn/
https://twitter.com/Yuyucow/status/898643527059611648
http://artistunknown.info
https://washiblog.wordpress.com
 
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bulletyen

Member
Nov 12, 2017
1,309
This seems a bit biased, don't you think? Not only is this purely subjective (and impossible to prove), it almost seems insulting to imply that today's animators are less skilled, they're "cheating" (?), or that they aren't held to a high standard. I highly recommend that you check out sakugablog and sakugabooru—there are plenty of examples of quality animation in newer anime, and no shortage of talented animators!

Anyway, at the risk of sounding all "well, acktually", I don't think it's fair to use movies like Jin-Roh and Akira (titles that are renowned for their high production values) as proof that older anime were unequivocally "better" in terms of production values, or that animators were "more talented" back then. If you dig deep enough, you can find plenty of older titles that suffer from poor artwork, animation, and direction (and contrary to popular belief, OVAs and movies were no exception). Things were definitely not "bang on" all of the time, although people's tendency to cherry-pick the "best" examples of older anime may lead one to believe otherwise. There are good and bad works in every decade.

Anyway, these links may be of interest:
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post?tags=mob_psycho_100
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post?tags=kimetsu_no_yaiba
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post?tags=koudai_watanabe
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post?tags=yuki_hayashi
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post?tags=naoki_kobayashi
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post?tags=shingo_yamashita
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post?tags=hiroyuki_yamashita
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post?tags=megumi_kouno
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post?tags=takashi_kojima
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post?tags=itsuki_tsuchigami
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post?tags=masayuki_kunihiro
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post?tags=nozomu_abe
https://blog.sakugabooru.com/category/animes-future/
https://blog.sakugabooru.com/category/sakuga-bowl/
https://blog.sakugabooru.com/category/analysis/
https://blog.sakugabooru.com/category/anime-industry/
https://blog.sakugabooru.com/2017/0...and-i-have-to-write-that-anime-is-hand-drawn/
https://twitter.com/Yuyucow/status/898643527059611648
http://artistunknown.info
https://washiblog.wordpress.com

Look man, I don't know what era you grew up in, but biases... we all have them. Nature and nurture and circumstance shape us to think different and focus on different things. We're all shaped by the works that impact us on a personal level. So it's rather a pointless exclamation.

And I do follow sakuga, hell it may be the only thing I follow these days from anime. But what I observe personally, is that there's a rise of sakuga because anime can't keep it's shit straight and consistent for an entirely episode, let alone an entire series. Things can look fantastic in one shot, so very often, and then for the next 15 minutes look like complete shit. Or for the next several episodes. The highs might be higher, but the lows... the lows are everywhere. This was a lot rarer back in the day. Sakuga didn't really exist back then because... well, things were just a lot more consistent across the board. Usually (speaking in general, of course not all shows have the same talent/money). Showing me all these isolated clips of the best animators don't disprove that (also, your links are a mixed bag, having taken a look. Megumi kouno knows her shit, others like hiroyuki yamashita, itsuki tsuchigami... not so much). That's a huge list you got, but is it as huge as the amount of minutes of anime that come out every season? That's what I'm really trying to say. How often do I check out some random anime and either be blown away by the first 10 minutes or maybe a scene 15 minutes in, and then suffer through stiff drawings and bad storyboarding for the rest of it? Enen no Shouboutai and Kimetsu no Yaiba, which are probably recent highlights in terms of having some sick sakuga, are both typical victims of what I'm talking about. When it gets good it's amazing, then... there's the rest of it. The latter has CGI characters in walking scenes for fuck's sake.

Look at the gunsmith cats clip. It's not actually spectacular. But the quality is pretty damn consistent, and I find that to be a rarity these days. Watch the whole thing. It never strays from that bar. Back then, for most anime, and the aim was always to look good across the whole episode, and it was hard to pick out the action sakuga from the rest. Nowadays I find, the first episode will be really high quality, and fairly consistent, then an inferior team/ animators will handle the rest of the series where it rarely looks as good again. Some anime will have no good animators, and they bring aboard one hotshot to do an action scene.

My point is less that animators these days are less talented than previous generations, it's more that a lot of things have changed in anime, including its production process and the production values. That's just a reality.

There is way more anime produced every year, every season, at this point in time than several decades past. This results in a lot of rush jobs, and shortcuts. Animators are paid shit, and they were probably paid better in bubble era japan. There is less motivation, less circumstance for them to put their best foot forward. Then with digital, you can get away with much more than you can on paper, and you have tools the guys back then never dreamed of. If you are a student of animation, you would know even just the fact that flipping in digital animation software is much easier, and you are able to preview your animation in realtime far, far more easily. You also have a ton of reference at your fingertips, a luxury old animators didn't have. Because of this reality, because of all the things I mentioned, they are always trying to do more with less, more so than animators eons ago. Whether they're pressed for time, or not paid enough, or their eyes are trained differently. So yes, the standards are in fact different. This is not really up for debate.

I'm not so nostalgic asshole trying to put down modern animators. I work in animation doing storyboards, and I know how hard it is. But the strength of todays animators (and if you read my post again you'll know I acknowedged that) are talented but in a different way than those of yore. They have to be, because of how anime is produced today. They have to optimize what can look good with the limits they have. In general, For starters, it's choppier. Anime was never always on 2s, but anime today has less keys, less in betweens, less frames in general. Watch anime long enough and you'll observe that. Even with the best drawings, its noticeable. To compensate, or perhaps its just a result of living in an ADHD digital world, the action is faster so less frames isn't a problem, and there's a big focus on effects, on tricks that is less painstaking than drawing detailed humans in complex motion. Animators are better at crazy effects today than before, no doubt. They almost have to be.

These are just my observation. And honestly, all animation is cheating. But anime today cheats more than I like, in ways that I don't like, and that's not always the animators' fault. It's just the reality of today's anime.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
19,097
Not an intro, but the tracking shot of Shin Chan running up the Tokyo Tower in the climax of the 2001 film, The Adult Empire Strikes Back is likely the franchise's most epic moment, on top of being an incredibly animated sequence:

 

Vinegar Joe

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,155
The You're Under Arrest OVA had some pretty incredible animation in parts.

I remember some of the vehicle sequences being particularly impressive:

The reflections and details on the car here:

This whole sequence is just increasingly ridiculous on multiple levels:
It's worth mentioning that slow motion, when done properly, takes a lot more work because you have to draw twice the amount of frames to make it look smooth. That's why most animation tries to avoid it and it's always impressive to see.
 
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Deleted member 10551

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,031
Damn. I wanna watch this show.

It's still one of the best anime shows ever. It's expensive as hell since Animeigo has the rights.

That said, a lot of 90s shows did not have consistent quality. They often dipped later on as budgets got crunched. Then you had stuff like Dragon Half where the folks blew the budget on drugs and it showed.
 

Sanka

Banned
Feb 17, 2019
5,778
Look man, I don't know what era you grew up in, but biases... we all have them. Nature and nurture and circumstance shape us to think different and focus on different things. We're all shaped by the works that impact us on a personal level. So it's rather a pointless exclamation.

And I do follow sakuga, hell it may be the only thing I follow these days from anime. But what I observe personally, is that there's a rise of sakuga because anime can't keep it's shit straight and consistent for an entirely episode, let alone an entire series. Things can look fantastic in one shot, so very often, and then for the next 15 minutes look like complete shit. Or for the next several episodes. The highs might be higher, but the lows... the lows are everywhere. This was a lot rarer back in the day. Sakuga didn't really exist back then because... well, things were just a lot more consistent across the board. Usually (speaking in general, of course not all shows have the same talent/money). Showing me all these isolated clips of the best animators don't disprove that (also, your links are a mixed bag, having taken a look. Megumi kouno knows her shit, others like hiroyuki yamashita, itsuki tsuchigami... not so much). That's a huge list you got, but is it as huge as the amount of minutes of anime that come out every season? That's what I'm really trying to say. How often do I check out some random anime and either be blown away by the first 10 minutes or maybe a scene 15 minutes in, and then suffer through stiff drawings and bad storyboarding for the rest of it? Enen no Shouboutai and Kimetsu no Yaiba, which are probably recent highlights in terms of having some sick sakuga, are both typical victims of what I'm talking about. When it gets good it's amazing, then... there's the rest of it. The latter has CGI characters in walking scenes for fuck's sake.

Look at the gunsmith cats clip. It's not actually spectacular. But the quality is pretty damn consistent, and I find that to be a rarity these days. Watch the whole thing. It never strays from that bar. Back then, for most anime, and the aim was always to look good across the whole episode, and it was hard to pick out the action sakuga from the rest. Nowadays I find, the first episode will be really high quality, and fairly consistent, then an inferior team/ animators will handle the rest of the series where it rarely looks as good again. Some anime will have no good animators, and they bring aboard one hotshot to do an action scene.

My point is less that animators these days are less talented than previous generations, it's more that a lot of things have changed in anime, including its production process and the production values. That's just a reality.

There is way more anime produced every year, every season, at this point in time than several decades past. This results in a lot of rush jobs, and shortcuts. Animators are paid shit, and they were probably paid better in bubble era japan. There is less motivation, less circumstance for them to put their best foot forward. Then with digital, you can get away with much more than you can on paper, and you have tools the guys back then never dreamed of. If you are a student of animation, you would know even just the fact that flipping in digital animation software is much easier, and you are able to preview your animation in realtime far, far more easily. You also have a ton of reference at your fingertips, a luxury old animators didn't have. Because of this reality, because of all the things I mentioned, they are always trying to do more with less, more so than animators eons ago. Whether they're pressed for time, or not paid enough, or their eyes are trained differently. So yes, the standards are in fact different. This is not really up for debate.

I'm not so nostalgic asshole trying to put down modern animators. I work in animation doing storyboards, and I know how hard it is. But the strength of todays animators (and if you read my post again you'll know I acknowedged that) are talented but in a different way than those of yore. They have to be, because of how anime is produced today. They have to optimize what can look good with the limits they have. In general, For starters, it's choppier. Anime was never always on 2s, but anime today has less keys, less in betweens, less frames in general. Watch anime long enough and you'll observe that. Even with the best drawings, its noticeable. To compensate, or perhaps its just a result of living in an ADHD digital world, the action is faster so less frames isn't a problem, and there's a big focus on effects, on tricks that is less painstaking than drawing detailed humans in complex motion. Animators are better at crazy effects today than before, no doubt. They almost have to be.

These are just my observation. And honestly, all animation is cheating. But anime today cheats more than I like, in ways that I don't like, and that's not always the animators' fault. It's just the reality of today's anime.
Most of what you remember as a youngin were OVA's and movies. Just like you mentioning Gunsmith Cat. Your typical TV anime series back then looked pretty normal not much better or worse than today. And something like Space Dandy or Mob Psycho were quite rare in the TV landscape. So one might argue that TV anime never looked better than in recent years.
 

apocat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,058
For one-take animation, I have a hard time thinking anything will ever top this. Period.

Some nudity and violence, so maybe not at work I guess.
 
OP
OP
Mekanos

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,174
It's worth mentioning that slow motion, when done properly, takes a lot more work because you have to draw twice the amount of frames to make it look smooth. That's why most animation tries to avoid it and it's always impressive to see.

I remember the Simpsons staff talking about this on the commentary for this scene:



They hated animating the slow mo part. This is why a lot of slow mo animation tends to have that "faded" look where it's almost skipping frames.
 

furikuri

Member
Oct 28, 2017
156
And I do follow sakuga, hell it may be the only thing I follow these days from anime. But what I observe personally, is that there's a rise of sakuga because anime can't keep it's shit straight and consistent for an entirely episode, let alone an entire series. Things can look fantastic in one shot, so very often, and then for the next 15 minutes look like complete shit. Or for the next several episodes. The highs might be higher, but the lows... the lows are everywhere. This was a lot rarer back in the day. Sakuga didn't really exist back then because... well, things were just a lot more consistent across the board. Usually (speaking in general, of course not all shows have the same talent/money). Showing me all these isolated clips of the best animators don't disprove that. That's what I'm really trying to say. That's a huge list you got, but is it as huge as the amount of minutes of anime that come out every season? How often do I check out some random anime and either be blown away by the first 10 minutes or maybe a scene 15 minutes in, and then suffer through stiff drawings and bad storyboarding for the rest of it? Enen no Shouboutai and Kimetsu no Yaiba, which are probably recent highlights in terms of having some sick sakuga, are both typical victims of what I'm talking about. The latter has CGI characters in walking scenes for fuck's sake.

Episodic inconsistency has always been a thing—this isn't specific to newer anime. Furthermore, I'm not sure how inconsistent production values correlate to the "rise" of sakuga. Sakuga moments have been a thing for decades, so I'm not sure how you can say that sakuga "didn't really exist" when there are hundreds of examples (sakugabooru can attest to this) that prove that statement wrong. The vast majority of anime, regardless of the time period, have middling production values, which is exactly why those moments stand out. Frankly, I've seen far too many bad, mediocre, or average-looking OVAs and TV series to believe in the "superior" consistency of older anime. Look at any long-running shounen anime, or even some 13-49 episode series (e.g. Trigun, Outlaw Star, Weiss Kreuz, Tekkaman Blade, Master Mosquiton '99, Orphen Revenge, Night Walker, Legend of Himiko, Brave Series, Cybuster, Devilman Lady, Eat-Man, Burn-Up Excess). You can find plenty of stiff drawing and bad storyboarding if you look beyond the usual selection of popular and critically-acclaimed anime.

Now, the "isolated clips" argument goes both ways—you could apply the same logic to that Gunsmith Cats clip. After all, it's easy to cherry-pick examples that support your narrative. I could just as easily point to Twinkle Nora Rock Me, Nora, Yami no Teio, Sword for Truth, Alice in Cyberland, Sin: The Movie, Panzer Dragoon, Aoki Honoo, Halley Densetsu, Superdimensional Romesque Samy, Gundress, Garzey's Wing, Dark Cat, Dragon Fist, Kimera, Psychic Wars, Kouryuu no Mimi, Battle Skipper, Roots Search, Dog Soldier, Art of Fighting, or Eien no Filena—OVAs and movies rife with shoddy artwork, mediocre animation, weak storyboarding, and un-ambitious direction—as proof that movies and OVAs weren't nearly as consistent as you think. The point is that anime have always been inconsistent and that it's silly to use cherry-picked examples as proof that things were objectively better back then. Like TV anime, there are plenty of OVAs that look bad and a number of them that look great. Of course, the good-looking ones are the only ones that people ever talk about.

What I wanted to prove by posting those clips is that there's no real logical reason to objectively claim that older animators had "tighter" skills, modern artists "cheat", and that standards were "higher", but if you feel that way, that's fine!

Look at the gunsmith cats clip. It's not actually spectacular. But the quality is pretty damn consistent, and I find that to be a rarity these days. Watch the whole thing. It never strays from that bar. Back then, for most anime, and the aim was always to look good across the whole episode, and it was hard to pick out the action sakuga from the rest. Nowadays I find, the first episode will be really high quality, and fairly consistent, then a different team/ animators will handle the rest of the series where it rarely looks as good again.

The clip doesn't prove anything other than that the Gunsmith Cats had decent production values. I also don't think that it's the fairest point of comparison (seeing as how it's a three-episode OVA that was released over the span of a year), but fine. Again, it's easy to cherry-pick certain examples that confirm your biases. One particular OVA (out of hundreds) isn't definitive proof that what you're saying is true.

Anyway, none of what you're describing is specific to any particular time period. Some anime are more consistent than others in terms of quality—this has always been the case. Staff rotations and outsourcing have always existed, so it's not rare to see quality fluctuate on a per-episode basis, be it a TV anime or an OVA. On the other hand, there are many anime that maintain a baseline (albeit unspectacular) level of quality throughout their run. I'm not sure why you think that older anime were held to a different standard—creators have always strived for their products to look good, but there are so many variables in anime production that it's impossible to achieve 100% consistency on a regular basis. This has never changed. Nobody deliberately sets out to make a bad product. In any case, the assertion that things were somehow different and "more consistent" back then isn't supported by the older anime I've seen. Some are good, some are bad, and a lot of it is average or mediocre.

Frankly, considering the terrible working conditions of the anime industry (and the sheer amount of anime that are being produced), it's a miracle that more anime aren't complete production disasters.

My point is less that animators these days are less talented than previous generations, it's more that a lot of things have changed in anime, including its production process and the production values. That's just a reality.

Yes, the nature of anime production has changed (due to a confluence of factors, including technological advancements and working conditions). Animation techniques have changed. Production values? I disagree. As I've said before, there are good looking anime and bad looking anime. There is no objective "better" or "worse".

There is way more anime produced every year, every season, at this point in time than several decades past. This results in a lot of rush jobs, and shortcuts. Animators are paid shit, and they were probably paid better in bubble era japan. There is less motivation, less circumstance for them to put their best foot forward. Then with digital, you can get away with much more than you can on paper, and you have tools the guys back then never dreamed of. If you are a student of animation, you would know even just the fact that flipping in digital animation software is much easier, and you are able to preview your animation in realtime far, far more easily. You also have a ton of reference at your fingertips, a luxury old animators didn't have. Because of this reality, because of all the things I mentioned, they are always trying to do more with less, more so than animators eons ago. Whether they're pressed for time, or not paid enough, or their eyes are trained differently. So yes, the standards are in fact different. This is not really up for debate.

It is true that the anime industry suffers from horrible working conditions. As you said, not only are animators paid peanuts, but work schedules can be crushing. And yes, the sheer amount of anime being produced has led to a lack of proper education and time for animators, which results in a need for animation/episode directors to redraw heavy amounts of key animation. On top of that, competition is fierce for freelance animators and animation directors. As I said above, these factors are huge contributors towards production breakdowns. Things definitely need to change.

If you stopped there, I'd agree with you. However, the rest of this feels like an attempt to make your (subjective) grievances seem like objective facts. You've still not actually explained these vaguely-defined "standards", why they're different when it comes to newer anime, or how anything you've described relates to them. Standards are "different" because of digital tools (tools that are meant to improve the production process)? If you're implying that modern animation is less impressive because animators use technology to streamline the process, I don't know what to say. Digital tools aren't a magical panacea that cure all anime production woes; like any other tool, they can be used effectively or ineffectively.

Frankly, the anime industry's poor working conditions are a far more important matter than the tools animators are using or whatever arbitrary "standards" they're required to live up to.

I'm not so nostalgic asshole trying to put down modern animators. I work in animation, and I know how hard it is. But the strength of todays animators (and if you read my post again you'll know I acknowedged that) are talented but in a different way than those of yore. They have to be, because of how anime is produced today. They have to optimize what can look good with the limits they have. In general, For starters, it's choppier. Anime was never always on 2s, but anime today has less keys, less in betweens, less frames in general. Watch anime long enough and you'll observe that. Even with the best drawings, its noticeable. To compensate, or perhaps its just a result of living in an ADHD digital world, there's a big focus on effects, on tricks. Animators are better at crazy effects today than before, no doubt. They almost have to be.

Animating on twos and threes is common for anime (along with the occasional one), so I don't think anything has changed drastically. I hope that you're not trying to compare the most well-animated titles to everything else that comes out. And your assertion that digital effects are used to "compensate" or are the result of an "ADHD digital world" seem like a bit of an assumption. They're used to accentuate the work in question, not to "trick" the audience.

I guess I'll agree to disagree!
 
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Mochi

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,704
Seattle
It's worth mentioning that slow motion, when done properly, takes a lot more work because you have to draw twice the amount of frames to make it look smooth. That's why most animation tries to avoid it and it's always impressive to see.

I didn't even think about the slow motion part of the sequence!

This is a great thread, makes me want to rewatch/watch a bunch of stuff from this era that I missed just to marvel at the artistry.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
Do you have the opening sequence from the show that features this song?

Kagami No Naka No Akuteresu

I never saw KOR, but since the Animego VHS videos often featured the KOR credits as a bonus "music video" I've seen that opening like 100 or more times.
 

squall23

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,778
Let me present to you the OP of Metal Armor Dragonar directed by Obari Masami. He was fired from the show after this because the showrunners allegedly said that Obari made the robots and the animation look too good.