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This Nessa (from Pokemon SwSh) whitewashing controversy is kinda blowing up in the art community right now
- Thread starter vestan
- Start date
People who address others like that deserve nothing. That last sentence is bullshit.I guess I should go back to the post I did way back in the FF7 Barrett thread about skin color and photography. It's definitely relevant here as well, probably more relevant.
Based on at least this exchange I think they can read more than a little English.
Imagine developing art snobbery over anime.
I...
... really am not interested in what you think.
Seriously, people make this distinction all the time like I'm supposed to congratulate people on ONLY being accidentally racist.
Like, how does this help me? In any way? What am I supposed to take from this?
Face is, unintentional racism not being as far over the line as intentional racism doesn't mean it's magically not racism, especially when- for me- the line of acceptability is not being racist.
Sure. I'm not gonna string this person up because they subconsciously lean into liking lighter skin colors, even on darker-skinned black folks. But I'm not gonna give them a cookie either for not wanting to lynch me, nor am I about to give a damn about people trying to mince the differences between intentional and unintentional racism with me in an effort to make me as a black person be more forgiving, as if this world has done anything to deserve the forgiveness of black people. Like we owe y'all anything.
Miss. Me. With. Thaaaaaat.
Also, I'm trying to draw dammit.
It's just fan art, which is basically another form of fan fiction , why is anyone giving it attention in the first place? It's not official, so why argue about it? I mean, it's like fans that do the "shipping" crap or any other kind of fiction yeah? A lot of people "ship" straight characters and make them gay, or vice versa, it's not a big deal. People can interpret the characters or represent them however they want, until the official artwork starts whitewashing characters just ignore the random Artists that don't actually matter yea?
Now THAT'S what I'm talking about. Put some respekt on her name.
Anyone got a link?
My favourite thing here is the person saying you might have heard of Andy Warhol if you'd have 'studied art'.
There's a real problem with this in Asia, though. I was looking for some moisturiser the other day and I had to go into 3 shops before I found one that WASN'T 'whitening'
There's a real problem with this in Asia, though. I was looking for some moisturiser the other day and I had to go into 3 shops before I found one that WASN'T 'whitening'
This is so petty, and this "honest question" only comes up for dark skin anime characters. How convenient.
Why would our opinions even matter here? What's your threshold on what is a black anime character? How about you explain that to us before we continue this "discussion"
I mean go and look back at everyone who responded to you and try to understand that there's nothing bad or ugly about all the racial features that make up humanity.
One last time, next time you see people of colour asking for more hairstyles and customisation options in character creators, in order to better represent themselves and their race, try to avoid telling people that the only thing they really need is a colour slider. It comes across really badly.
Being able to tell that the person is supposed to be black is my threshold. I've said I can't tell what race Nessa is supposed to be, and really just am curious if I'm missing something that makes it obvious to others that she's black. And if my using certain words then I'm sorry, that's not my intend.
You already know what they need to consider someone black
I see, so that's the point this thread is at now, cool.
When did I say that? Of course I recognize the beauty and diversity in humanity. Jesus Christ you keep dodging my questions. Just because humans are diverse doesn't mean that there are "traits inherent to race".
Like you seem to be accusing me of being "the real racist" by saying that... black people are humans too?
If you're whitewashing on purpose thats a bad look but I really dont see how the piece that spawned this drama was done on purpose. The artist picked an artistic palette and did a good job with it.
If theres no I'll intent its pretty damn stupid to say that you need to colorpick the original skin and that any other skin tone is wrong, thats just arguing in bad faith.
If theres no I'll intent its pretty damn stupid to say that you need to colorpick the original skin and that any other skin tone is wrong, thats just arguing in bad faith.
Personally, as a dark-skinned south-indian person myself, we get fuck all representation as it is...
so it's a little off-putting when dark-skinned characters who display no additional racial characteristics are automatically grouped into "black" rather than just an inclusive "dark skinned" grouping.
Same annoyance with light-skinned characters automatically being considered "white"
Everyone can just go back and see what you said, it's fine. You straight up said that outside of skin colour, there's no other physical racial characteristics in humans. Fuck all those people who want "black hairstyles", right? There's nothing else to say to you, you're just really misguided.
Congratulations, you discovered a circle.
Im asking you what defines a black character to your standards.... and you replied
"Being able to tell she's black" ......
You can't tell what race she's suppose to be..... okay so tell us what would make her 100% black in your eyes.
You do know thst this is waay bigger than just fanart, there are black girls that love to see someone like them in ART or whatever, when things like this happens it. Makes them think that since they hsvve darker skin, they aren't as pretty as the fair skinnedpeople. This can lead them to thinking dark skin is bad and need to change how they look or bleach their skin. Doesn't matter if it's art, IF you change it enough from the source material( like this fan pic) it can have many negative effects. Colorism is a BIG issue in the black and latin communities, and this is making things worse
And also it is whitewashing because it's taking a darker skinned woman and making her tones lighter, doesn't mean making her white. Going from dark to lightskin is Still white washing. It's saying lighter tones is more attractive than darker ones
When there are numerous cases of this, and when it typically only applies to darker skin tones and not lighter ones, don't you think the effect is the same to people who have those skin tones in real life? Or do you think they just don't care and excuse all of it because "they didn't mean it"?
I do agree with you and think she's Indian based off of parts of her design. Even so, that doesn't change the main point of the thread which is fan artist's tendency to take dark skinned characters and make them lighter skinned.
Depressingly, I've gotten used to it at this point, though I do think the example in the OP isn't as bad some of the examples DigitalOp has posted.
Thats how the game goes until things get better. People are going to identify with what options are available unless its explicit. You have Amara in BL3 who is clearly Indian who gives that representation, thats awesome. Nobody is saying she's black ethnically, but she is dark skinned and nobody should be surprised if black girls/darker skinned girls feel represented by that.
We had a thread where someone claimed 2 Galar pokemon characters as Desi. Based in a UK region. the fresh names are ethnic, so it makes sense. Nobody had a problem with it except for the few who played the same bullshit thats happening in this thread about "not being able to determine what race they are"
All of that is deflection, the main issue is that some artist represent these characters by drawing them shades lighter than their original depictions. But not all of a sudden the discussion wants to be about what the characters are ethnically and its off the mark.
Its slim pickings already, black people are gonna be excited for dark skin characters regardless of ethnicity.
Yeah i was arguing about colorism to someone on twitter. They had the nerve to post some well "why is it ok to have a lightskinned person have darker skin but not visaversa?"
Also love the well "i'm asian i don't see the problem". You then tell them why it's a problem. "Well it just seems really hypocritical." *throws up hands*
Also love the well "i'm asian i don't see the problem". You then tell them why it's a problem. "Well it just seems really hypocritical." *throws up hands*
It's actually just saying "this is the color I chose for my art". The rest is your interpretation of it.
I'm still unclear as to why this is so controversial. Fan artists draw characters with inaccurate skin tones all the time. I know I've seen a few slightly darker skinned sailor moon or Kingdom Hearts fanart.
It's not like fans can will darker skinned official characters to have a lighter skin tone in canon. It should be obvious to anyone that knows the character that lighter skin isn't really her skin tone. Sure there's the argument that people unfamilar with the character might get the wrong idea or references the inaccurate fan art for their own art, but they'd willingly be disregarding official art/character design (if that were their excuse).
I really dont get the shouting matches or glasses pushing up "correcting" attitude that some people can have for fan art. I dont like it when other try to edit other people's art and I also dont like it when people feel the need to school others on how to correctly portray a character, as if they dont know how they originally looked and went thier own way with it regardless.
It's not like fans can will darker skinned official characters to have a lighter skin tone in canon. It should be obvious to anyone that knows the character that lighter skin isn't really her skin tone. Sure there's the argument that people unfamilar with the character might get the wrong idea or references the inaccurate fan art for their own art, but they'd willingly be disregarding official art/character design (if that were their excuse).
I really dont get the shouting matches or glasses pushing up "correcting" attitude that some people can have for fan art. I dont like it when other try to edit other people's art and I also dont like it when people feel the need to school others on how to correctly portray a character, as if they dont know how they originally looked and went thier own way with it regardless.
In particular, it was her outfit that caused controversy and led people to criticize her design in terms of that trope. Thus, the localization team went out of their way to remove her apron in both her official game artwork and the anime.
You're right that Unova had some good black & brown characters though. Iris is great. And I really liked the Water gym leader Marlon — though I guess the "brown vs tan" issue crops up again there, since he clearly has lighter-toned feet.
No it's not, that's literally what colorism is about, art like this basically promotes thst, even tho that wasn't the purpose. As a black man who've seen black woman hate their skin cus of shit like this, don't come with that" interpretation shit" .
Depends on the artist, their culture, their experiences etc. For example, pretty much every white artist in America doesnt know how to draw and paint black people or black skin tones, its not hard to learn at all and people in the US interact with black people regularly ... yet they still draw the same, stereotypical archetype and call it a day.
In Japan? You barely see or interact with black people so of course they are not aware that this conversation is a thing. Some will have I'll intent and engage in colorism and some will just look at a piece in terms of value and go for something with lower contrast without full knowledge of how to paint dark skin because they never do it ... while being entirely unaware that its going to offend a lot of people in a different continent in a language they dont understand
Some perspective from Robaato who deals with this stuff regularly
Theres also a lot of artists fishing for RTs when it comes to this and they edit somebody elses work, its pretty blatant sometimes
You literally do not understand that outside of skin color, race isn't physical it's cultural.
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These are the colors chosen for this art, the rest is simply just your interpretation
Totally
"Hi, ResetERA. My name is Lucio. I was born in Rio de Janeiro. I like playing hockey and football. I also love skating. And I make EDM to make my neighborhood happy, and to buff my teammates whenever I go into battle. I fight for people's freedom and autonomy, especially against the Vishkar Corporation.
"Oh yeah, I'm also not fucking whitewashed. Nepenthe didn't even color pick either. She just looked at me and threw in some purple! It was awesome!
"Anyway, I hope you all have a good day. Be Champions!"
I swear the "wait if they're black aren't they supposed to have--" crowds would have a literal aneurysm if they went to the UK and discovered that *gasp* all the POC who were born and raised there have English accents. Or wait, maybe they'd do that thing gamers do and say "wait you don't sound black." 🤔
Download the art and download the official and use a color picker.
Sri Lankan here, so glad there's someone else here that understands my pain! 😭
Excellent posts you've been doing.Official art posted by NOE
:origin()/pre00/e79f/th/pre/f/2017/140/5/9/twintelle_3re_by_starsoulart-db9tvsy.jpg)
I had to dodge big lewd inappropriate drawings that would have further proven the point for Twintelle.
heres marina
Heres Amara from Borderlands
Im going to explain this rather simply. Its Colorism. "Whitewashing is too strong of a word....." Sure fine w/e
but its absolutely colorism thats involved. Simply put, Melanin has many different shades and palettes. We see this all the time with darker skin characters and fan art, the artist slaps on some light tan, just enough to have contrast against any white/lighter characters depicted and thats that. Its lazy, and it isn't true to the character you're trying to represent.
There is more to black skin than some lame pasty light brown or even red! Idk where the red comes from. Artist need to put more care and time into learning how to color accurate skin tones. You know how i know this isn't a "lighting" thing, because I found more art that actually properly represented the skin tones of these characters. All different styles and mediums of drawings.
Clearly it can be done but the artist has to care enough to do it.
(also so much of these arts people draw are so lewd, holy shit lol Ass and titty shots everywhere)
"Hi, ResetERA. My name is Lucio. I was born in Rio de Janeiro. I like playing hockey and football. I also love skating. And I make EDM to make my neighborhood happy, and to buff my teammates whenever I go into battle. I fight for people's freedom and autonomy, especially against the Vishkar Corporation.
"Oh yeah, I'm also not fucking whitewashed. Nepenthe didn't even color pick either. She just looked at me and threw in some purple! It was awesome!
"Anyway, I hope you all have a good day. Be Champions!"
This is really well done. Loving the paint strokes.
Did you even read the wikipedia page? They developed those hairstyles largely for cultural reasons and the denser hair, like skin color was adaptive. It doesn't take away from my point that differences in race are mostly cultural.
Wow, this is excellent!
"Hi, ResetERA. My name is Lucio. I was born in Rio de Janeiro. I like playing hockey and football. I also love skating. And I make EDM to make my neighborhood happy, and to buff my teammates whenever I go into battle. I fight for people's freedom and autonomy, especially against the Vishkar Corporation.
"Oh yeah, I'm also not fucking whitewashed. Nepenthe didn't even color pick either. She just looked at me and threw in some purple! It was awesome!
"Anyway, I hope you all have a good day. Be Champions!"
You CAN'T be serious.
Its like people live in a box.
Edit: Tip about life, DO NOT learn about cultures from anyone other than the people of the culture you are curious about.
Hair texture. I'm talking about hair texture. The kind of hair that grows on your head. Not the way you style it, but the actual hair growing out of the top of your head.
How is that so hard to understand?