This narrative forming that "At least the prequels had a story/narrative"

ThisThingIsUseful · Dec 23, 2019

Garlador said:
But it didn't tell a good or coherent story. That's the problem.

The PT was a good story concept executed poorly. The ST was a bad story concept (if even that) with better execution.

The ST was constantly changing themes, storylines, character motivations, etc. It lacks cohesion and logic to a distracting degree, but its cast is charming and professional. But it suffers from having not just a lack of a vision for the movies but COMPETING visions for the story and characters.

I can't exactly summon much satisfaction watching Star Wars's first female lead that was a WoC being sidelined in the last film to cater to the most toxic and insincere of the fanbase, all while Abrams talked up about how her character was "the best thing" Rian did for the franchise.

To be honest, I thought it was a good and coherent story through 8. Like, the answers 8 had for 9 were fascinating to me. Then 9 is just weird. And =( at Rose. Strangely, and though I wouldn't have said it years ago, I'd have liked to have seen Colin Trevorrow's Episode 9 considering what we got. At least with that, I know that Poe and Rey introducing each other at the end of 8 was something Colin asked Rian to do going into his Episode 9.

sphagnum said:
It doesn't tell a good story. Only TLJ tells a good story. TFA is a rehash and TROS is nonsense.

While TFA has plenty of similarities to ANH, I thought the story was told well and feel like 4-5-6-7-8 actually tell a great story by themselves. Like, letting RJ answer JJ's mysteries was actually satisfying and riveting. JJ answering his own questions, not so much, lol.

TheHunter · Dec 23, 2019

sphagnum said:
It doesn't tell a good story. Only TLJ tells a good story. TFA is a rehash and TROS is nonsense.

The characters and themes are far and away better, even if TFA is w rehash and TRoS is... whatever the hell it is.

Laserdisk · Dec 23, 2019

Sordid Plebeian said:
I mean it was garbage but at least there was a point to it all

That Pepsi made so much cash from the SE release deal they paid for 3 new ones?

And people saying clones has a point or a story need to watch it again.

TheHunter · Dec 23, 2019

Laserdisk said:
That Pepsi made so much cash from the SE release deal they paid for 3 new ones?

And people saying clones has a point or a story need to watch it again.

AotC is an offense to God.

You could skip 1 and 2 and miss absolutely nothing.

Laserdisk · Dec 23, 2019

TheHunter said:
AotC is an offense to God.

You could skip 1 and 2 and miss absolutely nothing.

Sith is only OK as Snr Spielbergo stepped in

TheHunter · Dec 23, 2019

Laserdisk said:
Sith is only OK as Snr Spielbergo stepped in

Apparently Trade Disputes are engaging storytelling.

Steel · Dec 23, 2019

I will always appreciate the PT for how many decent video games came out of it. With EA/Disney we've got one good star wars game in a decade. Awesome.

Deleted member 7051 · Dec 23, 2019

TheHunter said:
The characters and themes are far and away better, even if TFA is w rehash and TRoS is... whatever the hell it is.

I don't really know about that. The prequels are a cautionary tale at heart, an allegory to the fairy tale of the original trilogy. They warn of power, how some hoard it, how some covet it, how some are corrupted by it and how easily some are lured by it.

Laserdisk · Dec 23, 2019

TheHunter said:
Apparently Trade Disputes are engaging storytelling.

Casual racism was engaging, in 1940s movies

TheHunter · Dec 23, 2019

Winny（๑•̀ㅂ•́）و said:
I don't really know about that. The prequels are a cautionary tale at heart, an allegory to the fairy tale of the original trilogy. They warn of power, how some hoard it, how some covet it, how some are corrupted by it and how easily some are lured by it.

These some being two whole characters and a nebulous trade federation made up of Saturday morning cartoon villains yes.

Meanwhile we explore failure, identity and what we should fight for as well as the evils of facism in the ST.l with deeper villains and better character arcs.

TheHunter · Dec 23, 2019

Laserdisk said:
Casual racism was engaging, in 1940s movies

It's called world building now.

Apparently.

DorkLord54 · Dec 23, 2019

Seriously, the ethnic caricatures in the PT would've been unacceptable in the 1980s, let alone the early 2000s. Only the Ferengi and the HP goblins come close to the levels of offensiveness.

Winston1 · Dec 23, 2019

I definitely prefer the prequels and that's for two reasons:

1)The prequels are a genuinely good story told badly and they had some interesting ideas and originality.

2)The prequels are bad in a fascinating and entertaining way, whereas something like Rise of Skywalker is bad in a much more boring and forgettable way.

Surfinn · Dec 23, 2019

Lots of revisionist history regarding the PT since the Disney deal.

GARlock Spiral · Dec 23, 2019

Well, yeah, who wouldn't?

Prequels:
-Has an interconnected story about how a kid becomes Darth Vader
-Does not have The Last Jedi

Sequels:
-Don't have much of a connected narrative until TROS
-The Last Jedi

There's not much the ST can do. The PT does not have The Last Jedi, and that's all it takes for it to be the easily superior trilogy.

ThisThingIsUseful · Dec 23, 2019

GARlock Spiral said:
Well, yeah, who wouldn't?

Prequels:
-Has an interconnected story about how a kid becomes Darth Vader
-Does not have The Last Jedi

Sequels:
-Don't have much of a connected narrative until TROS
-The Last Jedi

There's not much the ST can do. The PT does not have The Last Jedi, and that's all it takes for it to be the easily superior trilogy.

That would automatically make it inferior since none of the prequels were as well directed as TLJ.

Laserdisk · Dec 23, 2019

TheHunter said:
It's called world building now.

Apparently.

As long as a man wrote them and men were the leads and the woman was sexualized it's all gravy

SeanBoocock · Dec 23, 2019

I appreciated the prequels at the time, flawed as they are in some respects, and even more so after watching The Force Awakens. As much as I like The Last Jedi and the casting of the leads in episodes 7-9, I think I prefer the prequels over the most recent trilogy. The prequels were a bold take on the universe, and an innovative step towards the sort of digital effects that are common place in modern films. While the execution left much to be desired at certain points, I respect the prequels. The Last Jedi notwithstanding, I was largely disappointed if not outright put off by the sort of reactionary and pandering decisions made in TRoS and TFA. I could get over that if the film making was better, but especially in the case of TRoS it felt like a cluttered mess for much of the runtime.

Laserdisk · Dec 23, 2019

ThisThingIsUseful said:
That would automatically make it inferior since none of the prequels were as well directed as TLJ.

Or written, or shot, or edited, or paced.

Sweeney Swift · Dec 23, 2019

Winston1 said:
I definitely prefer the prequels and that's for two reasons:

1)The prequels are a genuinely good story told badly and they had some interesting ideas and originality.

2)The prequels are bad in a fascinating and entertaining way, whereas something like Rise of Skywalker is bad in a much more boring and forgettable way.

Agreed completely

Just off the top of my head, stuff I liked that stood out or was memorable to me:
Phantom Menace had fun podracing and my man Maul
Attack of the Clones had the Yoda fight and Mace kicking ass
Revenge of the Sith was so much fun, constantly, definitely my fav of the prequels

Rise of Skywalker:..

...it's been days. I remember nothing I like, if I even liked anything walking out of the theater. I guess the closest was the Kylo/Rey fight with the water, and even that I couldn't remember anything that actually made it fun, or exciting, or risky (god knows the only film this trilogy that I loved, that had Any risks, the best film of the series for me TLJ, was immediately Burned at the Stake for that), or even just bare minimum of a fight that mattered, I just remember how it was supposed to look cool and stand out and matter, even though it was just another moment in a film that only had moments and never tried to make it matter or give it time to sink in so it could matter

I've definitely come out appreciating every other film in the series more than this now! That's a positive! It just also doesn't make me want to see any more because I know the cowardice will only continue if this is what they wanted their final point to be. You always remember the end. And this is how that saga will have always ended. A dud, from minute 1 to minute 142

TheHunter · Dec 23, 2019

Laserdisk said:
Or written, or shot, or edited, or paced.

Or acted.

TyraZaurus · Dec 23, 2019

Except the PT isn't a good story. What you are all describing is a PREMISE. "Something that sounds good on paper" isn't a story whatsoever, it's an idea. You can't divorce a story from its execution, and the PT has flaws beyond things like flawed acting and pacing. There's huge contrivances and things like characters acting in ways that require them go fully grab the idiot ball, not notice, or react to things in ways that clash with their established characters. Lucas not only fails to make Anakin's motivations appear compelling, no one around him reacts to him in a way a human being would. Just as a surface example, Padme, who fought for her people's rights and made peace with the Gungans, uncharacteristically fails to call Anakin out for what he did to the Tuskegee raiders. And the movies are FULL of stuff like this.

It's a terribly executed story. Interesting premise, but a failure of a narrative on every level. Lucas does tell it with a clear idea of where it wants to go, but to achieve it, he ramrods it through with contrivances. Literarily, cinematographically, and every other aspect, they are utter failures.

TheHunter · Dec 23, 2019

N. Tyranno said:
Except the PT isn't a good story. What you are all describing is a PREMISE. "Something that sounds good on paper" isn't a story whatsoever, it's an idea. You can't divorce a story from its execution, and the PT has flaws beyond things like flawed acting and pacing. There's huge contrivances and things like characters acting in ways that require them go fully grab the idiot ball, not notice, or react to things in ways that clash with their established characters. Lucas not only fails to make Anakin's motivations appear compelling, no one around him reacts to him in a way a human being would. Just as a surface example, Padme, who fought for her people's rights and made peace with the Gungans, uncharacteristically fails to call Anakin out for what he did to the Tuskegee raiders. And the movies are FULL of stuff like this.

It's a terribly executed story. Interesting premise, but a failure of a narrative on every level. Lucas does tell it with a clear idea of where it wants to go, but to achieve it, he ramrods it through with contrivances. They. Are. Bad.

You mean everyone being pants on head stupid isn't good story telling?

GaimeGuy · Dec 23, 2019

GARlock Spiral said:
Well, yeah, who wouldn't?

Prequels:
-Has an interconnected story about how a kid becomes Darth Vader
-Does not have The Last Jedi

Sequels:
-Don't have much of a connected narrative until TROS
-The Last Jedi

There's not much the ST can do. The PT does not have The Last Jedi, and that's all it takes for it to be the easily superior trilogy.

The ST could have done anything. Literally anything.

GARlock Spiral · Dec 23, 2019

Laserdisk said:
Or written, or shot, or edited, or paced.

I'll give you the middle two. Shot/Editing were not worse, pacing is arguable, but writing? AotC styles all over the unmitigated disaster that is TLJ. I WISH Rian would have put as much effort into writing Luke's story arc as much as Lucas had Anakin bitch about sand. It would have made for a MUCH better movie!

GaimeGuy said:
The ST could have done anything. Literally anything.

Failed potential sucks, I know.

TheHunter · Dec 23, 2019

I

GARlock Spiral said:
I'll give you the middle two. Shot/Editing were not worse, pacing is arguable, but writing? AotC styles all over the unmitigated disaster that is TLJ. I WISH Rian would have put as much effort into writing Luke's story arc as much as Lucas had Anakin bitch about sand. It would have made for a MUCH better movie!

Failed potential sucks, I know.

Is this sarcasm?

I can't tell anymore.

Principate · Dec 23, 2019

TheHunter said:
A lack of one vision that actually tells a good story vs vision that tells a shit one.

Give me the ST all day every day.

What good story, that Rey is a Palpatine? TLJ is the only truly good film in the trilogy the problem is anything interesting done in regards to it's characters is rubbished in the next film.

Taken as a whole due to TRoS the story of the ST is actually pretty damn crap.

Fj0823 · Dec 23, 2019

EhieYovach said:
Prequels are bad movies that have occasionally good moments but at least the prequels knock it out of the park when it came to world building. Star Wars the movie series is not strengthened by the prequels but Star Wars the media franchise is much better off because of the prequels. Most recent example is Battlefront 2, instead of relying on sequel trilogy stuff it was Clone Wars content that largely saved that game.

Yep. There's a market that wants prequel stuff. But the Internet is in extreme denial of this fact.

TheHunter · Dec 23, 2019

Principate said:
What good story, that Rey is a Palpatine? TLJ is the only truly good film in the trilogy the problem is anything interesting done in regards to it's characters is rubbished in the next film.

Taken as a whole due to TRoS the story of the ST is actually pretty damn crap.

The characters, themes and journey are good.

TRoS fumbling at the goal line sucks but it doesn't undue the other two films.

Laserdisk · Dec 23, 2019

SeanBoocock said:
I appreciated the prequels at the time, flawed as they are in some respects, and even more so after watching The Force Awakens. As much as I like The Last Jedi and the casting of the leads in episodes 7-9, I think I prefer the prequels over the most recent trilogy. The prequels were a bold take on the universe, and an innovative step towards the sort of digital effects that are common place in modern films. While the execution left much to be desired at certain points, I respect the prequels. The Last Jedi notwithstanding, I was largely disappointed if not outright put off by the sort of reactionary and pandering decisions made in TRoS and TFA. I could get over that if the film making was better, but especially in the case of TRoS it felt like a cluttered mess for much of the runtime.

How old were you in 99?

GARlock Spiral said:
I'll give you the middle two. Shot/Editing were not worse, pacing is arguable, but writing? AotC styles all over the unmitigated disaster that is TLJ. I WISH Rian would have put as much effort into writing Luke's story arc as much as Lucas had Anakin bitch about sand. It would have made for a MUCH better movie!

Failed potential sucks, I know.

You really need to watch clones again.

Kalentan · Dec 23, 2019

Fj0823 said:
Yep. There's a market that wants prequel stuff. But the Internet is in extreme denial of this fact.

Basically.

But according to them, the Prequels are so unpopular that Disney decided to bring back the Clone Wars tv show due to how unpopular it was.

Garlador · Dec 23, 2019

Surfinn said:
Lots of revisionist history regarding the PT since the Disney deal.

Before the Disney deal. An entire generation of kids have grown up with the PT as "their" Star Wars. In 15-20 years, the PT will be "the" Star Wars for the generation of kids watching today.

Vertpin · Dec 23, 2019

ZackieChan said:
Probably the same people who go for a 2nd bowl of cereal

Lmfao

Laserdisk · Dec 23, 2019

Laserdisk said:
As long as a man wrote them and men were the leads and the woman was sexualized it's all gravy

Fj0823 said:
Yep. There's a market that wants prequel stuff. But the Internet is in extreme denial of this fact.

Yep

Principate · Dec 23, 2019

TheHunter said:
The characters, themes and journey are good.

TRoS fumbling at the goal line sucks but it doesn't undue the other two films.

The themes are good the journey is mediocre (an ok start a great middle and an awful end does not a good journey make).

The end is important because it affects your takeaway interpretations of these characters and the overall message of the story.

In that regard the ST is actually trully awful. The culmination of Finn's, Reys, Poe's and Ben's character arcs are uninspired, vapid and hollow.

GARlock Spiral · Dec 23, 2019

Principate said:
What good story, that Rey is a Palpatine? TLJ is the only truly good film in the trilogy the problem is anything interesting done in regards to it's characters is rubbished in the next film.

Taken as a whole due to TRoS the story of the ST is actually pretty damn crap.

RoS is the only good film in the trilogy with interesting stuff in it. TFA had some, TLJ throws them away, RoS has to be the middle entry and the last entry because TLJ outright fails at being Part 2 of 3.

Fj0823 · Dec 23, 2019

Laserdisk said:
Yep

So everyone in the demographic that wants prequel stuff is a sexist? Really?

They just don't like the designs, or the setting or grew up with those movies...They're just sexists?

TyraZaurus · Dec 23, 2019

Of course the prequels are popular. Of course there's a lot of people who want more stuff from that era. But that doesn't make them executed well. And the side media that is legitimately good like Clone Wars is good IN SPITE of their source material, not because of them.

Surfinn · Dec 23, 2019

Garlador said:
Before the Disney deal. An entire generation of kids have grown up with the PT as "their" Star Wars. In 15-20 years, the PT will be "the" Star Wars for the generation of kids watching today.

I would say, especially since the Disney deal though.

Carl2291 · Dec 23, 2019

Another thing that people overlook when talking about the prequels is the massive pop culture impact. While the trilogy isn't necessarily very good, it had a gigantic impact.

Iconic scenes, music and characters that the Disney movies simply haven't come close to.

Fj0823 · Dec 23, 2019

Kalentan said:
Basically.

But according to them, the Prequels are so unpopular that Disney decided to bring back the Clone Wars tv show due to how unpopular it was.

Obi-Wan being made a full series was ONLY because EVERYONE knows he's the ONLY good thing in them! That show will ignore the rest fo' sure.

Equippedwithtowel · Dec 23, 2019

for all the prequels faults i can remember their set pieces even after years of not watching them and only being an occiasional sw fan. I saw ROS opening day and its all a blur by now

Antoo · Dec 23, 2019

I don't understand people who say the prequels have a coherent narrative either. The first two films are straight up superfluous and useless in the grand scheme of things. They feature massive course correcting due to fan criticism just like TROS.

ROTS is a movie that shows you how poorly thought out the prequels were. Wait Anakin and Palpatine have a friendship? WHERE WAS THIS IN THE FUCKING TWO LAST MOVIES?!?! Oh, Anakin and Obi-Wan are actually good friends and have a positive relationship. BARELY SET UP IN THE LAST TWO. AotC consisted of Anakin being moody and constantly complaining about his master. Even the one element properly set up, which was the romance between Anakin and Padme, was fumbled. Their romance in the second film feels creepy and devoid of any life. It felt like two robots trying to discern what human emotion is.

ROTS is a movie that exposes how poorly conceived and thought out the prequels were. The movie desperately tries to create an intriguing conflict, but it is so horribly supported. And even then this movie still does stupid shit like waste your time with a subplot about Yoda and the wookies for fanservice or Obi-Wan tracking down Grevious. Like TROS there's a good central conflict wrapped in a messy, uneven film.

It's a movie like TROS where you just have to buy into things without thinking. Ok fine Palpatine and Anakin and great friends. Fine, Anakin and Padme really have a special bond. If you think about any of the developments you realize they are either not supported at all by any of the previous films or just come out of fucking nowhere.

Operations · Dec 23, 2019

The prequels had the benefit that most viewers knew what the story arc was going to be about (i.e. Palpatine manipulating everyone and taking over the Senate, Jedis go extinct, Anakin becomes Vader, etc.). The execution was poor (acting, dialogue, pacing, bad taste CGI) but the story was indeed simple to follow, if only because everyone knew the endgame beforehand.

TyraZaurus · Dec 23, 2019

Carl2291 said:
Another thing that people overlook when talking about the prequels is the massive pop culture impact. While the trilogy isn't necessarily very good, it had a gigantic impact.

Iconic scenes, music and characters that the Disney movies simply haven't come close to.

You can't possibly know what will and won't be remembered years from now.

roflwaffles · Dec 23, 2019

GARlock Spiral said:
Well, yeah, who wouldn't?

Prequels:
-Has an interconnected story about how a kid becomes Darth Vader
-Does not have The Last Jedi

Sequels:
-Don't have much of a connected narrative until TROS
-The Last Jedi

There's not much the ST can do. The PT does not have The Last Jedi, and that's all it takes for it to be the easily superior trilogy.

The Last Jedi is vastly superior to anything in the PT.

TheHunter · Dec 23, 2019

roflwaffles said:
The Last Jedi is vastly superior to anything in the PT.

Masoyama · Dec 23, 2019

roflwaffles said:
The Last Jedi is vastly superior to anything in the PT.

And is only matched in the OT by Empire.

Carl2291 · Dec 23, 2019

N. Tyranno said:
You can't possibly know what will and won't be remembered years from now.

Sure, can't argue with that.

As of right now though, as someone who actually likes the ST as a whole, I can't see much there.

MorganFreakman · Dec 23, 2019

its very obvious that the ST was planned on a movie by movie basis, which is pretty crazy multi-billion dollar franchise that you know will be a trilogy before the first movie comes out.

So many characters in ST are introduced just to be forgotten in 5 min. Did Phasma do ANYTHING in the movies she was in? Who the hell is Snoke and what is his backstory? What happened to Rose & Finn? Does Palpatine return if Snoke isn't killed by Arian Johnson (prolly not imo)? How does no one notice a leftover empire sect building Death Star 3.0?

and how is Palpatine able to create 10,000 death ships (note to JJ: stakes can be raised without reusing the "planet destroying" weapon every movie

This narrative forming that "At least the prequels had a story/narrative"

Bold Bur3n Wrangler

Bold Bur3n Wrangler

Bold Bur3n Wrangler

User requested account closure

Bold Bur3n Wrangler

Bold Bur3n Wrangler

Senior Engineer @ Epic Games

User Requested Ban

Bold Bur3n Wrangler

Bold Bur3n Wrangler

Bold Bur3n Wrangler

Legendary Duelist

Bold Bur3n Wrangler

Legendary Duelist

Legendary Duelist

Bold Bur3n Wrangler

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt account