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This may change in 2 days, but the B&B Unit is, IMO, the most... bizarre thing Kojima has ever done.
- Thread starter Phendrift
- Start date
Lol yeah but that's so tame compared her MGS4 stuff. It's been talked to death about but that fucking relationship between her and Sasaki that just comes on abruptly at the end of the game. It's so bad. ITS SO BAD.
I remember being super disappointed with all four of the boss fights. I shame because they easily have the best visual design out of any of the MGS boss fights. I remember the cutscene introducing them being pretty terrifying for a MGS game. Then...the rest of the game happens lmao.
User banned (2 weeks): dismissive behaviour towards sexist objectification
God bless Kojima lol
b&b unit and Quiet are some of my favorite characters/moments in gaming
hope to see that same style in Death Stranding!
b&b unit and Quiet are some of my favorite characters/moments in gaming
hope to see that same style in Death Stranding!
Metroid Other M was released only 2 years later and got shit all over it over Samus' depiction.
nope
I found the rain scene in mgsv5 a little cringey but absolutely loved EVERYTHING about quiet as a character, design, etc
if anything I would have preferred Kojima was just honest about the character instead of the whole "you will be ashamed..." silliness
It's a concept that isn't necessarily terrible on paper, it was just executed terribly. Man they were good boss fights though. Laughing Octopus especially.
They even had fake stockings. That man is a really backward from the gender equality standpoint.
But for Kojima rape and bombs in vagina are just "something bad that happens to women".
Kojima IS a sexist and misogynist.
And he gets a free pass from his fans.
Imagine any other creator doing the sexist shit he has pulled off, he would be shunned immediately.
And he gets a free pass from his fans.
Imagine any other creator doing the sexist shit he has pulled off, he would be shunned immediately.
User banned (2 weeks): dismissive behaviour towards sexist objectification, trolling
I think the blatant underlying point here is that people are WAY more sensitive and look for reasons to be offended( and then justify it) now than back in 2008. There was NOT a big out cry over this back then, but there was with Quiet just a few years ago( no coo coincidence). Not a good sign for the future.
I know mgs needs a collection of freaks for their bosses ever since mgs1 fox unit but these bosses were boring tbh.
It's not just Kojima, check out discussions about Bayonetta or Nier Autotmeta. Japanese creators can do no wrong, it's all just cute and funny, not to mention it has deeper meanings and metacommentary and subtlety that goes over our heads, it's not just blatant sexualization!
It's this stuff that makes me shake my head at people calling Kojima a "genius" and an "important political artist".
They were terrible then and still terrible now. Mechanically, I like the actual encounters in terms of tension and design.
But the atrocious exposition dump by drebin post fight, the sexualization combined with the extremely grim dark backstories makes for an awkward as fuck results. Like the fuck am I supposed to feel about them?
But the atrocious exposition dump by drebin post fight, the sexualization combined with the extremely grim dark backstories makes for an awkward as fuck results. Like the fuck am I supposed to feel about them?
User banned (1 week): dismissive behaviour towards sexist objectification, trolling
The concept you posted is actually cool. It was the first time a team of women were bosses of a game.
Not to sure why anyone would call this crazy. Its a video game guys. Relax.
Not to sure why anyone would call this crazy. Its a video game guys. Relax.
This was indeed peak WTF Kokima, and man if the bar for "weirdest Kojima shit ever" isn't sky high. It's kind of a shame because I like the mecha suit designs themselves quite a lot, they were the cool kind of weird. The post-death photo shoot though? Kojima, kindly lay off the coke.
Wouldn't' it have been great to have them as bosses in Revengeance without all the creepy stuff?
Like fucking clockwork.
Wouldn't' it have been great to have them as bosses in Revengeance without all the creepy stuff?
Like fucking clockwork.
Kinda funny review goes into it withouti spoiling but apparently we get something almost on par with quiet.
I love all of them, but my favorites are Laughing Octopus and Crying Wolf. And yours?
"They are the Snake hound unit". Some of the coolest looking bosses ever.
Who paid you to make this SJW thread @op? Was it George Soros?
Stay scummy Kojima, don't let the bourgeois question your brilliance.
Stay scummy Kojima, don't let the bourgeois question your brilliance.
This cringy stuff has really turned me off the series in general. Maybe it was being much younger or maybe the games were a lot more subtle, but MGS 1 - 3 were some of my favourite games of all time. I could not get into 4 at all, not only because of a lot of the tings OP mentioned in the first post, but with all the weird fan service stuff with Meryl and Johnny too. Basically the only thing I remember of the game at this point.
I'd say that while I love the MGS series before MGS4, a lot of Kojima's ideas always felt disconnected and stupid.
I dont think this is anything close to GZ/PP's handling of paz and quiet, but yeah this fucking sucked.
The tragic backstories and "beautiful women turned into war machines" elements actually fit the themes of the game (even if they are inherently objectifying), hypothetically you could do something really smart with that, but kojima couldnt resist doing the dumbest and creepiest possible path.
I wouldn't call it bizarre, just slimy.
The tragic backstories and "beautiful women turned into war machines" elements actually fit the themes of the game (even if they are inherently objectifying), hypothetically you could do something really smart with that, but kojima couldnt resist doing the dumbest and creepiest possible path.
I wouldn't call it bizarre, just slimy.
people like ishida lap these things up because it's exactly who they are themselves. they have no shame and no desire to see things differently.
It was absolutely tone deaf to what followed. I enjoyed the encounters themselves since the bosses were fun to fight, but the whole photoshoot was dumb and I just tranq'd them to skip it. The fact it follows up the sexy photoshoot with tragic backstories was just completely baffling, and that's saying a lot given we're talking about MGS4 here.
Honestly tho thanks for bringing this back up. I remember being irritated with how much time MGSV spends on focusing the cutscene camera on any breasts it can find that I totally forgot that MGS4 was no better whatsoever with tone deaf fanservice. I ain't really interested in Death Stranding but I hope to god it does better on this stuff because it was embarrassing as all hell both in MGS4 and MGSV.
Honestly tho thanks for bringing this back up. I remember being irritated with how much time MGSV spends on focusing the cutscene camera on any breasts it can find that I totally forgot that MGS4 was no better whatsoever with tone deaf fanservice. I ain't really interested in Death Stranding but I hope to god it does better on this stuff because it was embarrassing as all hell both in MGS4 and MGSV.
I like Kojima but this shit was fucking wack bro, the way they'd pose for you and everything like it was some sexy photo shoot after detailing their tragic back stories was a big ol' YIKES. Good boss fights tho.
I know people like to latch onto the Quiet shit but I'm surprised a bigger stinker has never been raised over this. Feels a lot more worse imo.
Kojma is master of his craft.
If you guys want to really discuss sexism, take a look at Policenauts. You can grope pretty much every female NPC in that game...
Shite then, shite now.
Not that it would've made the sexualisation any better in the slightest but the only decent fight was Laughing Octopus.
Not that it would've made the sexualisation any better in the slightest but the only decent fight was Laughing Octopus.
Quite a few tone deaf replies in this thread, too. Some of them on this very page.
Nope, you're right. I picked the wrong one.
It's misogyny for sure.
It was awful.For those who don't know, the B&B's standing for "beauty and the beast" were MGS4's group of bosses.
What were they? Well.. this.
Kojima scanned four real life models into the game and put them in these giant robot suits. Once you kill the robot, the girls come out of the suit. They look like this
And sexually walk towards snake, who either has to kill or tranq them. The sexualization is actually one of the least surprising things considering Kojima to me though.
On top of that, every single one of them has PTSD due to some way over the top backstory that includes some horrible atrocities they committed in their past
On top of that, each one is supposed to be a conglomeration of past MGS bosses. Sporting a FOXHOUND members name, a Dead Cell member's weapon, and a Cobra member's emotion.
On top of THAT, it's revealed in the end that they were all being controlled by a nanomachine implementation of Psycho Mantis' will into the leader, Screaming Mantis.
in general they feel disconnected from the game's main story. Only being relevant for the intro cutscene with all of them in act one, and their respective fights.
MGS4 in general dealt with soldiers' emotions and PTSD, but this was definitely the most bizarre way it went about doing so.
just explaining it sounds crazy. He body scanned four models, sexualized the hell out of them, slapped them in a big robotic suit decked out with weapons, gave them horrifying backstories, connected them to every past MGS boss, and in the end had them all being controlled by Mantis. Like what the fuck lmao
That's not even mentioning the photo mode that snake can enter where he can take pictures of the models.