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This may change in 2 days, but the B&B Unit is, IMO, the most... bizarre thing Kojima has ever done.
- Thread starter Phendrift
- Start date
These bosses were badass, but I do remember being skeeved out by them a bit even as a horny 13-15 year old when I played this game.
I really appreciated that you could tranq rather than kill them. They didn't deserve their lot in life, so showing them mercy always felt right to me... Also I am pretty sure you got a camo skin for them if you did that >.>
I really appreciated that you could tranq rather than kill them. They didn't deserve their lot in life, so showing them mercy always felt right to me... Also I am pretty sure you got a camo skin for them if you did that >.>
Talking of Paz...was there any need for the "Date with Paz" content in Peace Walker?
But of course, non of it is canon:
And weren't she in her underwear in the mech in that game.
Kojima is just weird.
I can totally hate someone for continued, unfaltering objectification and exploitation of women.
Jesus fucking christ, its sickening to liken his bottomfeeder misogyny to being just a "wacky quirk".
Good for you?, as I said, I'd rather not discuss these things in a gaming forum.
why bring it up then. it's almost like you don't know what the fuck you're talking about
I didn't bring it up, I replied to the person who did, and as I said, google it, I don't understand what's so hard for you to comprehend, it's well documented.
You know what is canon though
Multiple insinuations that Strangelove, as a lesbian, is attracted to Paz, who presents herself as a very innocent and childish minor, and makes multiple attempts to molest her
Good to hear that Big Boss is "not likely" a pedophile if we just take this fanwiki on its word on them deciding it doesn't count. Regardless of whether it "happened" or not, the developers thought highly enough of their decision to include the scene though, because that skeezy underwear model in the 3D model viewer mode. But don't worry, Paz gets molested, raped, tortured, and gets murdered later, so that's actually very tragic. Words and deeds.
This is offensive to my culture, mate.
I'm deploying counterhooning measures pronto.
Got away with it because nothing was shown, oy implied. That bomb thing, hot damn.
All the "it's Kojima" posts in here are why I can't stand this guys and his fanbases antics. It's like he's the only guy in the AAA space that gets a free pass for blatant sexism because he's an "auteur" or whatever the fans like to tell themselves.
I wouldn't even mind the mindless wanking around the guys character if people didn't constantly excuse his sexist shit with weak ass reasoning like that.
I wouldn't even mind the mindless wanking around the guys character if people didn't constantly excuse his sexist shit with weak ass reasoning like that.
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Yeah I really wish he didn't put this inTalking of Paz...was there any need for the "Date with Paz" content in Peace Walker?
But of course, non of it is canon:
And weren't she in her underwear in the mech in that game.
Kojima is just weird.
Date with Kaz though.... now that was some needed content.
"Kojima is just weird" is a really mild way to say "Kojima is a sexist creep".Talking of Paz...was there any need for the "Date with Paz" content in Peace Walker?
Kojima is just weird.
This shit sounds dumb as fuck. I can't wait until actual film critics have to deal with this nonsense someday.
And people get away with it lol. "It's Kojima" after all. You just don't understand his genius. Is there any other prolific dev that openly sexist? And any other dev that gets excuses over excuses for it instead of being shunned like any other person would be on this forum?
Imagine any head of a western studio being like this. Would get brigaded over Twitter until he gets fired.
Doesnt sexist mean you think one sex is superior to the other one?
(Stereotype, prejudice, discrimination)
I think you meant misogynist.
Maybe i'm wrong
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I don't think Kojima's problem is that he's sexist, it's more sexualization. I've always viewed them as two different things.
There are lots of strong and powerful women in MGS (Olga Gurlukovich, The Boss, EVA, Sniper Wolf, Amanda, Meryl) so that makes the sexualization all the more frustrating to me.
It was with this boss cast that future Metal Gear games had completely lukewarm feelings for me. It's remarkable how the quality of the antagonist cast just drops and never recovers after MGS3's Cobra Unit. Peace Walker would somehow get worse bosses than MGS4, and the somehow MGSV gets the worst in the franchise.
Rising's cast is probably the only good cast of antagonists after MGS3, and they're awfully one-dimensional. Jetstream Sam is the shit, though.
Rising's cast is probably the only good cast of antagonists after MGS3, and they're awfully one-dimensional. Jetstream Sam is the shit, though.
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To be fair the Cobras, despite their insanely cool fights, didn't get as much characterization as FOXHOUND or Dead Cell either. In fact I'd argue they're more one note than Rising's Desperado.
i mean The Pain was basically like "The Pain! the Pain! I will give you the greatest Pain you've ever felt!" same with The Fear.
The End and The Fury were better though. Especially The End.
How so?
I actually googled the definitions before posting.
Misogyny is (among others) sexual objectification which applies to what Kojima did.
Sexism is discrimination and prejudice.
Anyways. Kinda off topic so no reason to derail Any further
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I mean the thread isn't just about the sexualization of them. It's about everything.
I figured people would gravitate towards that, but wondering how many read the OP.
Any strong characteristics of characters like Meryl are undermined when you can peep on her doing exercises without any pants on. The Bosses design also is said to have been reigned in by others because he seemingly wanted her breasts to be exposed. We see what Kojima does with female characters when he's not reigned in, so I don't doubt that for a second.
And sorry for fixating on that when your OP is about other stuff as well, but some of the blatant apologists in here kinda got to me.
It was also really weird cause....was I supposed to care about them? Every one of them hab basically no interaction with you outside of the boss battle and then the game was like "Oh yeah, some fucked up shit happened to them"
Don't really care if you never see any of them outside of battle.
Don't really care if you never see any of them outside of battle.
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Yeah it does suck that the characters come with that caveat, but there's still lots of likeable women in MGS that, while still acknowledging the issue, are some of my favorite characters in the series for what they actually do in the game, their abilities or personality.
and no worries, it's definitely an issue that shouldn't be discouraged from discussing and I don't wanna sweep it under the rug by any means. I just did have a bit more in mind when posting the OP.
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Yeah, if you were supposed to care for them, all of that was done away with because they have no impact on the story besides their boss fight. So it basically came off as shock value.
And a lot of it was shocking. Despite the objectifying camera, there was some striking imagery in lots of cutscenes involving them. Aditionally, the actresses gave pretty great performances and sounded very chilling.
I considered the Metal Gear Solid franchise to be some of the best games in gaming history. I absolutely loved the first and third game in particular, then I played Metal Gear Solid 4, and never even bothered playing Metal Gear Solid 5.
The B and B units aren't the sole reason, the game was just bad, but the B and B units are one of the low points. Their backstories just came off as overly dark and tragic and in the case of Laughing Octopus just outright ridiculous. Yes Sniper Wolf's backstory was tragic but it at least made sense because it involved Saddam Hussein's attacks on the Kurds. Sniper Wolf also had a personality that made her sympathetic.
The B and B units aren't the sole reason, the game was just bad, but the B and B units are one of the low points. Their backstories just came off as overly dark and tragic and in the case of Laughing Octopus just outright ridiculous. Yes Sniper Wolf's backstory was tragic but it at least made sense because it involved Saddam Hussein's attacks on the Kurds. Sniper Wolf also had a personality that made her sympathetic.
The B&B unit was such a disappointment coming from previous games that had such an interesting cast of villains.
Agreed. Such a big drop from FOXHOUND, Dead Cell and The Cobra Unit.
Well you see MGS4 is the best game of all time so that makes it okay.
Yeah it sucked especially because Laughing Octopus seemed like such a cool boss until Kojima decided to sexualise her, then proceeds to do the same with the other bosses (who are incredibly forgettable). This is what lead to the likes of Paz and Quiet being such objects made for sexualization for Kojima. None of them are anywhere near as good as the likes of Sniper Wolf, The Boss or Olga which were all far better characters. I hope Fragile and Mama are along those lines in Death Stranding...
