• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

julia crawford

Took the red AND the blue pills
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,607
What do y'all think about this? I'm torn. I don't think everyone should need to learn how to code, but as you move towards further and further in the future code might come to be a core function of our ability to communicate with each other. So when i see kids being taught how to code, what can i say? It's fun and stuff. But i'm very cynical about the general feeling i get that children are being given access to this secret, unfolding secret land of possibility when code is, uh, well, i mean it's just another way to do work right? And though i understand that code empowers people to have access to means and knowledge that they can use to express themselves, to ends that go beyond commercial and engineering interests, i'm too cynical to think that that's what's expected of these children when they grow up.

What i mean is this. From what i can observe and perceive, there's a lot of emphasis being put on how the individual marketability and usefulness of any person is increased considerably if they know how to code. And code is sold to them as something that's accessible, quick to learn and turn into a deliverable. Which i'm not saying it's not, because i don't think coding is particularly difficult until you're somewhat over the event horizon. But i do know it's not for everyone, whereas rather conveniently, being told that you only need to learn a handful of things to make your own website/web service/the new facebook is something most people are very receptive to. Frankly, that's abusive. It's abusing a generation that's got it fucking hard, worn and tired of making themselves into desirable assets. It's hard not to see code infiltrating curricula of younger children's classes as an extension of that notion.

Get these kids into sexual education instead or something.
 

Fat4all

Woke up, got a money tag, swears a lot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
94,148
here
why offer kids the chance to learn a valuable skill

i wish my mom could of taught me how to solder like she can
 
OP
OP
julia crawford

julia crawford

Took the red AND the blue pills
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,607
What?

What is the relation between coding and sexual education?

The relation is, quite obviously, hentai games.

why offer kids the chance to learn a valuable skill

i wish my mom could of taught me how to solder like she can

I wouldn't consider programming knowledge that's below college level to be a valuable skill. There are many tools that circumvent code by offering more accessible ways to do the things code usually does.
 

Trace

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,695
Canada
I wish I had the option to learn how to code in school, it would have been more worthwhile than the majority of the stuff I was forced to take.
 

djplaeskool

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,825
My thought has always been, it's not necessarily for the sake of coding itself as a specific skill (my first coding language was Pascal, and damned if I'll ever user any of that), but the tenets of something structurally flexible like Object-oriented programming can be applied in myriad ways that have future-proof utility.
 

Garrett 2U

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,511
I think kids should learn coding for many of the same reasons they learn algebra and trigonometry, the sciences (biology, chemistry, physics), etc. It can be an effective challenge to help think about things in an abstract way to solve problems. It also is a practical tool, like utilizing a super powerful calculator. And software is a such a huge part of our lives today, generally knowing how things works helps with utilizing and troubleshooting technology.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
22,187
Learn it on the side. Same with math. Coding and math may not be 100% useful in every job but they are good at keeping your mind sharp moreso math.
 

Pwnz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,279
Places
I think basics in elementary school with legos mind storms to plant the seeds of how to think as a coder would be prudent. But otherwise nah let my salary keep getting a 5% bump per year due to the shortage of programmers.
 

VariantX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,934
Columbia, SC
I don't know about coding exactly but they should know the basics probably. Most people will not need to use it beyond that level for anything unless they're seeking a job that requires those skills.
 
May 9, 2018
3,600
11th_grade.png
 

TheBeardedOne

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,189
Derry
Not everyone needs to know how to code. If people want to learn it they can, if not they shouldn't be forced to. I tried to learn it years ago and hated it.

Kids should get the option earlier in school though.
 

nsilvias

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,048
call me crazy but i think this idea only exists because tech companies want coders to become more disposable so they can pay them less. if everyone can do it then the value of the skill lowers.
 

out_of_touch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,686
This will become true in the future, it isn't now. We as humans like to pretend we're so advanced and high-tech but we're still very primal, very brittle.
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
Not everyone needs to know how to code, but a mandatory class or two in high school is good. Hell, they had a C++ programming class in high school when I went in the 90's!

But it is funny when they suggest everyone should code as a rule. Job market desperate to devalue that position.
 

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,972
Scotland
Not everyone will be able to learn how to code, just like not everyone knows how to insert a catheter.

No I'm not comparing the usefulness of them.
 

Paz

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,163
Brisbane, Australia
People learning to code in school makes sense to me since everything in the modern world is based on code and even if you don't end up doing it as a job you should probably know how your magical phone actually works.
 

Fat4all

Woke up, got a money tag, swears a lot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
94,148
here
it'll all be worth it if we end up in a future where everyone has floppy disk holsters on their belts
 

Ogodei

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,256
Coruscant
The real skill nowadays is just being able to learn, period, and being adaptable. Languages come and go, so knowing coding in a general sense is strong and that's how you can make hay in a good career, but soft skills are where the real power is because hard skills are becoming transient, unless they're professional specializations like being a doctor, lawyer, etc.
 

Zelenogorsk

Banned
Mar 1, 2018
1,567
It's all fun and games until you get to debugging thousands of lines of C++.

But honestly anyone who can pass an algebra course should probably have a semester of coding. It forces you to really break problems down, which is great for developing problem solving skills.

The amount of stuff a beginner can do just knowing if/else, for loops, and arrays is pretty staggering if they're creative enough.
 

Shark

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,126
Raleigh, NC
This OP sure is something else but in general teaching kids to code is a better use of everyone's time than outdated math courses.
 

whatsinaname

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,106
I wouldn't consider programming knowledge that's below college level to be a valuable skill. There are many tools that circumvent code by offering more accessible ways to do the things code usually does.

And there are ways to get around basic math by using calculators. Coding, for better or worse, is the new math. Some people may never use it beyond high school level. Or even middle school level. But it is definitely a skill that kids are better of learning than not.
 

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,972
Scotland
The real skill nowadays is just being able to learn, period, and being adaptable. Languages come and go, so knowing coding in a general sense is strong and that's how you can make hay in a good career, but soft skills are where the real power is because hard skills are becoming transient, unless they're professional specializations like being a doctor, lawyer, etc.
Even doctors are in the robots sights.
 

butzopower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,864
London
I don't think everyone needs or should learn to code. "Coding" itself isn't really going to help you build or alter the software you interact with, that takes a lot more craft learning software development techniques / skills, and a lot of it is a moving target to learn, as things change quite frequently. The type of problem solving skills aren't going to be natural or even interesting to everyone, and that's totally okay as not everyone should be good at all the same things.
 

BrokenIcarus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
444
The field of computer science is not near ready for mass adaption. It's quite a mess to be frank and the idea that everyone should learn it in the next few decades is absurd IMO.
 

prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
5,367
This idea that coding is easy or anyone can do it simply needs to stop. Anyone can learn a syntax or basic logic loops but that doesn't set you up for a career or make you competent. I certainly think everyone should be exposed to it to see if it is something that interests you, the same with advanced mathematics or physics, but it's not for everyone.

The industry is already filled with chop shops and people who do incredibly bad work without any care for design or forward-planning. It's definitely a great skill that kids can get a sense of achievement and drive them to learn more, both being incredibly technical and creative at the same time, but so are many other disciplines.
 

Ferrio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,126
"Learn how to code" is a useless phrase. The tech industry is so huge and multifaceted, pushing everyone into just coding is a horribly naive way to go.
 

orlock

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,286
i will say that i wish, instead of getting frustrated with a bad teacher and shitty scholastic management, i had re-focused and finished learning how to code in high-school. they're probably archaic languages now, but if i had stayed in that field id probably be doing much better than i am now.

as for the rest, i, uh.... dont really know what youre saying.
 

Swig

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,504
I work as a Product Manager for a company that develops software. I don't see a problem with giving kids (or adults for that matter) exposure to coding. However, coding isn't for everyone. I've tried and I don't like coding, which is why I'm not a software engineer. It's also a lot of fun when you first start, but in real life, a lot of jobs are fixing bugs or developing boring software. It's a great skill, especially if you're into it, but it's definitely not for everyone. It's sort of good that there's a push to get more people to learn to code, but it shouldn't be marketed as a skill that everyone should have, as it may make people who aren't good at coding feel self conscious for not quickly learning the skill.

Maybe an intro class in high school or something would be good to get people's feet wet and teach basic logic, but I think it's being pushed too hard. There are a lot of jobs in tech and they're not all coding.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
When people say "coding," my mind goes to things like learning specific syntax for a language, the rote part of programming, and that's not very useful. When people argue that kids should learn "programming" early on, I think they are talking about an entirely different skill set than OP expects. I started learning computer programming in the 4th grade with hypercard, but the actual act of "programming" was writing human readable "apple" scripts and drawing on the screen with a tool that looked like Microsoft paint. The type of "programming" they want to impart on children are broad concepts about patterns and structures you encounter in not only computer programming, but broader topics about physics, mathematics, electrical engineering, etc.

I dunno if OP is a computer programmer or not so forgive me if this is basic for you, but I'm talking about structural patterns that build the outtermost frameworks of a computer program. Things like conditional branching, looping mechanisms, recursion, and more advanced topics like object oriented patterns are pretty much language agnostic. Leave the nuts and bolts about programming till college and beyond, when kids have figured out whether the concepts have grabbed them or not, but teach them these fundamentals early on, for the same reason you teach kids how to read so young, teach them math so young, etc: these concepts are flat out easier to digest and retain the earlier you learn them. A lot of the more complex parts of computer programming that I hear people stumble over constantly regarding memory usage was an absolute breeze for me, because I learned it abnormally early. Kids are sponges at young ages. Having access to these tools early on will make them better at their college-level studies later in life.

Today, rather than hypercard, schools should use things like Minecraft. You can teach an astonishing amount about computer programming using entirely physics-driven redstones, without ever looking at a single line of "code". It's all lego programming, essentially. It'll lay a conceptual understanding for the abstraction between physical and software, as an added bonus.
 

Gakidou

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,612
pip pip cheerio fish & chips
Seems the real problem you have with it is it being given priority over more fundamental life skills?
I feel like the same could be said of (native language) literature and calculator math though. In my generation I guess the big thing was word processing and data entry, every kid had to learn T O U C H T Y P I N G so that they could be the future... But idk, seems better than the next best idea anyone will actually agree on I guess? Coding could end up becoming as much a part of every day life as like, writing or illustration. It might be a bit reductive to say "well thats just another labour skill to grind for the man upstairs", would you say that about writing and drawing? Cause like, it is but it has domestic use and its considered at the same time a means to individual freedom and self expression?

I think i'd be cool if coding could be considered more like a language course, something you get encouraged to pick up at around GCSE level (age 13+) if you don't have any other specializations in mind. Would also be cool to have IT support and electronics/robotics as courses on that level too.
 

Ryuelli

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,209
I don't think everyone necessarily needs to code, but I do think coding classes should fulfill foreign language requirements that (as far as I'm aware) most high schools have.

I'm sure learning entry level code would have been a lot more useful to me in the long run than the French classes I took in my Texas high school.
 

Conciliator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,160
I don't claim to know what everyone should learn or do, but regarding coding:

1. Learning to code some simple stuff or some of the basic ideas behind software engineering can be really great for teaching you logic, the important of planning well, how to break up big problems into smaller, achievable chunks, how to follow directions very closely and pay attention to the details, etc.. I think it can be a positive thing overall for critical thinking and problem solving.

2. We all live in a world dictated by code. Like Sagan once said, we live in a world driven by technology in which almost no one understands the technology they depend on. In the same way it's good to know some basic car stuff if you use a car every day, perhaps it's good to know some basic software engineering stuff if you use software every day. Our kids should understand that the phones they use and the games they play aren't magical, they're carefully and slowly created by regular human beings who just have learned a lot, and learning a little bit about programming can be a sort of window into that.
 

Crocks

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
963
I don't think everyone needs to know how to code, but not everyone needs to know French or how to lathe wood or how nuclear fusion works, but kids should learn all these things to *some* degree so that they can see if they enjoy it or they have an aptitude for it. Most will probably drop it in favour of something else but it'll bring up the general knowledge a lot and for some they'll be confronted with it as a subject when they might not otherwise have. This is a good thing.
 
I don't think everyone necessarily needs to code, but I do think coding classes should fulfill foreign language requirements that (as far as I'm aware) most high schools have.

I'm sure learning entry level code would have been a lot more useful to me in the long run than the French classes I took in my Texas high school.

If it weren't for taking three years of Spanish in high school, I would've had room in my schedule for a Java class, but instead I settled for Visual Basic my senior year.