This forum's attitude toward shady game purchases is baffling

ThreepQuest64 · Nov 13, 2019

Xando said:
If publishers/devs try to take advantage of me why can't i take advantage of them?

This.

With all those shady practices by publishers and devs themselves these days I have no scruples to get a better deal for myself. Certain stores and launchers could easily check if store country matches the country your PayPal or credit card account is in, like Sony does it. No match no buy. If they don't check, I happily use globalization for my advantage in these cases, too.

elyetis · Nov 13, 2019

Cyanity said:
This has nothing to do with second hand game reselling

Given the broad usage of "shady" and differing definition of what is and what isn't part of it, and the fact you added to that the subject of buying games outside of your region, doing a comparison with other means of buying games has absolutely everything to do with it.

Deleted member 8852 · Nov 13, 2019

They try to nickel & dime me, I nickel & dime them right back.

Mass_Pincup · Nov 13, 2019

Wetalo said:
CD Keys get their keys by taking advantage of Region Pricing. So yeah they buy their keys legitimately in Russia/India or whatever and then resell them in America/Western Europe. It's kinda sketchy.

The publishers have full control over where the keys can be activated, the only reason this is happening is because they've allowed it.

Lant_War · Nov 13, 2019

Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric said:
Do you have any evidence of this? Because this is the first time I've heard that people buying digital wares outside their region harms the local population. (I don't personally do this but I never saw the harm)

It does, some companies have stopped offering regional pricing because people from other regions could buy games much cheaper.

Jaded Alyx · Nov 13, 2019

Mass_Pincup said:
The publishers have full control over where the keys can be activated, the only reason this is happening is because they've allowed it.

This is true. There's nothing stopping them from locking out countries/regions. It happens with certain sites and publishers.

catswaller · Nov 13, 2019

Key resellers are a grey area but exploring regional pricing is the slimiest.

It is objectively much more harmful than piracy it's ludicrous that any forum allows people to encourage it.

Deleted member 41178 · Nov 13, 2019

I don't really give much thought to it, honestly, if I come across (or more likely someone makes me aware of) a good deal I'll buy it.

SMD · Nov 13, 2019

Hong · Nov 13, 2019

rabathehutch said:
I still use CDKeys a lot but mainly to buy store credit to use elsewhere. I try and avoid taking advantage of regional pricing because it just means the people from other parts of the world that can't afford games at full price will get gouged by publishers.

This is a good point. I can see regional pricing for poorer countries increase due to stores and individuals taking advantage of said regional pricing. Which obviously sucks for the consumer in the end. I'm not sure if it will happen or has already happened, though. But it's a possibility.

HandsomeCharles · Nov 13, 2019

catswaller said:
Key resellers are a grey area but exploring regional pricing is the slimiest.

It is objectively much more harmful than piracy it's ludicrous that any forum allows people to encourage it.

Why do you think it's objectively more harmful? And more harmful to whom?

I could see the argument for it being more harmful to the legitimate residents of a region, as it could artificially force up prices in the region, but considering that it is still a sale where the alternative is that there may not have been one, why would it be more harmful to a developer?

BAD · Nov 13, 2019

People love to short devs and pubs instead of support them. It's just how many people here are.

XR. · Nov 13, 2019

HandsomeCharles said:
He got the deets slightly wrong.

It's when you buy generated steam keys directly from the developer.

Steam let's Devs generate keys for sale on other platforms, which can include your own website. So the thief buys them from the developer directly then issues the chargeback, which the seven then has to pay a penalty for.

If the developer is selling keys through their own store, that would indeed be the case but it rarely is.

Most keys are paid for in advance. If a key is stolen by way of a chargeback, it's the responsibility of the key provider to account for that, not necessarily the developer/publisher.

Dinobot · Nov 13, 2019

Piracy is bad. Accept it. Don't try to justify it by dragging down people who bypass region codes to pay 15-20% less for a game. That's still better than paying $0 like piracy.

catswaller · Nov 13, 2019

SMD said:
How is it objectively more harmful than piracy?

You're still """"stealing"""" money from an abstract product, except this time you're doing it in a way that imperils people in another market's access to fair pricing. I cannot fathom what kind of messed up view on consumption would make somebody buy an out of region key, effectively driving up prices/reducing access for people who want to buy in that region, when you could just pirate it instead if you want to rip off the company that sells the game.

texhnolyze · Nov 13, 2019

Lant_War said:
It does, some companies have stopped offering regional pricing because people from other regions could buy games much cheaper.

Yup, it's all about data and analytics, really.

Country X has low purchasing power
Publishers apply low regional pricing to that region
People from country X happy that they can finally purchase more games
Games sales suddenly sky-rocketed because people from country A, B, C, etc abuse it
Publishers conclude that the country has the purchasing power anyway
Publishers remove the regional pricing from country X
People from country A, B, C, are not affected and go on with their happy lives
People from country X are fucked

Here's the thing, people from country X generally have income of $500 per month, even lower. Now think about it for a second.

Deleted member 679 · Nov 13, 2019

empo said:
Using VPNs to buy slightly cheaper games if you're from a rich country sounds like the biggest "fuck u got mine" that you try to rationalize by saying "Actually I'm sticking it to the corporations!"

Agreed, it's the rationalization that bugs me.

You just want to save some money and don't care about anything else related to this discussion? That's great, have fun, I really don't mind. But please don't try to bullshit me with "actually what I'm doing is using capitalism to benefit the little man!", when the end result is regional pricing often getting shittier in my country. Wow, you care so much about the little man, thank you Mr. Rich Boy, I'm sure you won't just jump ship to the next cheap country once the prices here go to shit.

Please stop pretending there's any virtue in exploring regional pricing through "unoffical" means. You're just saving some money, even if the end result is me getting fucked, and that's fine. I get it. I won't hold it against you.

Remeran · Nov 13, 2019

How does CD Keys work? Why is it better than other sites that do this?

catswaller · Nov 13, 2019

HandsomeCharles said:
Why do you think it's objectively more harmful? And more harmful to whom?

I could see the argument for it being more harmful to the legitimate residents of a region, as it could artificially force up prices in the region, but considering that it is still a sale where the alternative is that there may not have been one, why would it be more harmful to a developer?

More harmful to the residents of the region, yeah. About equally harmful to the company -- you're breaking tos and preventing a real sale to the company, and companys dont have feelings or experiences so you should just pirate the game and spare the people who are actually being victimized.

Cyanity · Nov 13, 2019

catswaller said:
Key resellers are a grey area but exploring regional pricing is the slimiest.

It is objectively much more harmful than piracy it's ludicrous that any forum allows people to encourage it.

I don't think the word "objective" means what you think it does here

SMD · Nov 13, 2019

catswaller · Nov 13, 2019

Cyanity said:
I don't think the word "objective" means what you think it does here

it's impossible to argue that piracy hurts anybody directly (although it breaches tos/a contract and reduces sales numbers.)

It's unambiguous that circumventing region pricing imperils the access to regional pricing for actual humans in that region, and it also breaches tos/a contract and reduces sales numbers (in your actual region).

YuriLowell · Nov 13, 2019

Remeran said:
How does CD Keys work? Why is it better than other sites that do this?

They just buy keys from cheaper regions and resell them.

Deleted member 25117 · Nov 13, 2019

It's nobody's problem if certain publishers allow the use of VPNs or don't region lock their keys. They have all the power, why should we care?

Mass_Pincup · Nov 13, 2019

BAD said:
People love to short devs and pubs instead of support them. It's just how many people here are.

The demographic here is probably the one giving them the most money though.

catswaller · Nov 13, 2019

SMD said:
Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps the cheapest price is the fair price and that the more expensive prices in the rest of the world are what the publishers think they can get away with?

It hasn't, because fiat currency isn't a discrete counter of Value or whatever its a proportional relationship, so that's a nonsense concept. (plus these companies are obviously selling at a "loss" in poorer regions, the same as they are when they put a game deep on sale in the expensive reasons)

Remeran · Nov 13, 2019

YuriLowell said:
They just buy keys from cheaper regions and resell them.

Ahhh, I see. That is a grey area

Kill3r7 · Nov 13, 2019

Grey markets have existed from time immemorial. As far as taking advantage of foreign market prices well that's globalization for you. If the console manufacturers cared then they would region lock their games, as they did years ago, but ultimately it seems to me that they determined that this sort of behavior doesn't hurt their bottom line.

Cyanity · Nov 13, 2019

texhnolyze said:
Yup, it's all about data and analytics, really.

Country X has low purchasing power
Publishers apply low regional pricing to that region
People from country X happy that they can finally purchase more games
Games sales suddenly sky-rocketed because people from country A, B, C, etc abuse it
Publishers conclude that the country has the purchasing power anyway
Publishers remove the regional pricing from country X
People from country A, B, C, are not affected and go on with their happy lives
People from country X are fucked

Here's the thing, people from country X generally have income of $500 per month, even lower. Now think about it for a second.

Yea, this is the crux of my argument here and one I think a lot of the "Corporate apologist!!!" people in here are either downplaying or willfully ignoring.

SMD · Nov 13, 2019

BAD · Nov 13, 2019

It is absolutely slimy when people exploit regions and devs that need to price lower in some places. It's disgusting behavior and shouldn't be acceptable here.

DBT85 · Nov 13, 2019

Remeran said:
Ahhh, I see. That is a grey area

The same devs have the ability to stop you activating a Brazilian key in another region.

DOT_mjo · Nov 13, 2019

I don't fault people for trying to save money, hell I don't even fault people for piracy. Get it how you get it.

Deleted member 3183 · Nov 13, 2019

BAD said:
It is absolutely slimy when people exploit regions and devs that need to price lower in some places. It's disgusting behavior and shouldn't be acceptable here.

lol. These major publishers are earning billions of dollars. I think they can eat a few lower-cost sales from an absolute fraction of people who are doing this.

BAD · Nov 13, 2019

Mass_Pincup said:
The demographic here is probably the one giving them the most money though.

Giving smaller amounts to individual devs is not helping them or their less fortunate regions at all. What a joke.

Remeran · Nov 13, 2019

DBT85 said:
The same devs have the ability to stop you activating a Brazilian key in another region.

Not sure what you're saying?

Noodle · Nov 13, 2019

"grey market"? But that's only 1 shade lighter than black!

How do you square corporations being allowed to reap the benefits of globalisation but consumers shouldn't?

Bjones · Nov 13, 2019

I mean yeah it's morality hypocrisy for sure but it isn't that big of a deal.

elyetis · Nov 13, 2019

Ferris Bueller said:
It's nobody's problem if certain publishers allow the use of VPNs or don't region lock their keys. They have all the power, why should we care?

Apparently the consommer is the one who should have the moral responsability over the reaction the corporation might have as a reaction to his actions.

If the corporation raise the price of their games while they could simply region lock their game, it's the consummer fault. Because .... who the fuck knows.

Globalisation is for the corporations only.

Dr. Ludwig · Nov 13, 2019

What sites are you even talking about OP?

G2A? They're pretty much reviled around here.

YuriLowell · Nov 13, 2019

Remeran said:
Not sure what you're saying?

They could stop CDKeys entire business model if they wanted to.

SMD · Nov 13, 2019

Landford · Nov 13, 2019

Dont forget, never share your Netflix account too, thats piracy.

Mass_Pincup · Nov 13, 2019

BAD said:
Giving smaller amounts to individual devs is not helping them or their less fortunate regions at all. What a joke.

Smaller based on what?

Most people here play on console, using regional pricing is near inexistant there.

Maeros · Nov 13, 2019

When it comes to money people drop their morals. Simple as that.

Powerofthecloud · Nov 13, 2019

Cyanity said:
...Compared to its stance on piracy.

We see this in every new game thread: "I'm so glad I purchased this new AAA game for $45 off some shady key site!" and 10 people asking them where to buy.

Or people setting up VPNs to take advantage of russian/brazilian/etc pricing on new games. All this does is encourage companies to overcharge for their games in these regions, hurting the local population for our benefit.

So how is this any different or better than piracy? Is it because people are still paying money, so we can just brush this under the rug? Am I crazy for thinking this?

Good, why not buy it as cheap as possible. There is nothing wrong with grey market keys.

Cyanity · Nov 13, 2019

SMD said:
So everyone saying that using cheaper region stores is a shady practice, do you shop from the most expensive store you can then?

Not that I think my way is "the way" or anything, but I personally try to buy a game full price day 1 from whatever the official channels are.

Stone Ocean · Nov 13, 2019

If people want to risk losing money off shit like G2A that's their problem.

As for abusing regional pricing, as much as I dislike it I can't really fault people for wanting better deals so its on storefronts to block loopholes or whatever.

Elven_Star · Nov 13, 2019

Publishers overcharging ---> Not shady
Consumers looking for best deals ---> Shady

OK.

HBK · Nov 13, 2019

Gbraga said:
Agreed, it's the rationalization that bugs me.

You just want to save some money and don't care about anything else related to this discussion? That's great, have fun, I really don't mind. But please don't try to bullshit me with "actually what I'm doing is using capitalism to benefit the little man!", when the end result is regional pricing often getting shittier in my country. Wow, you care so much about the little man, thank you Mr. Rich Boy, I'm sure you won't just jump ship to the next cheap country once the prices here go to shit.

Please stop pretending there's any virtue in exploring regional pricing through "unoffical" means. You're just saving some money, even if the end result is me getting fucked, and that's fine. I get it. I won't hold it against you.

Fun thread.

Count me in this camp.

You're not screwing "the corporations" when you buy a game 20% cheaper. They still got your money. More often than not you simply bypassed some taxes and they got the same amount, you just didn't pay your taxes 🤷‍♀️

GrantDaNasty · Nov 13, 2019

I check out anything mentioned on savygamer.co.uk.

If that disappoints you, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This forum's attitude toward shady game purchases is baffling

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