The problem is that the context is other things CDPR have done over the last few years
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This fetishized in-game ad from Cyberpunk 2077 raises some questions about how the game may depict LGBT (NSFW) [See Staff Post Before Posting]
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In a vacuum, you could always ascribe this to tone deafness and leave it at that, hoping they'll listen, but it's hard to not see a pattern here in the studio's (lack of) consideration for trans communities.
I feel like if Margaret Atwood or Philip K. Dick would have written a description of this ad in a novel, no one would bat an eye. CD's reputation is hurting them here. I don't understand the need for context. The context is pretty clear. It's an ad in a fictional dystopian future. I personally don't see what's wrong with it, but I'm a cis person and have no real touchstone.
I'm extremely disappointed that CDPR is handling LGBT issues exactly how I imagined they would
Not entirely shocked though since they never fired all the alt-right pr people, just the one.
Not entirely shocked though since they never fired all the alt-right pr people, just the one.
The advert is advertising a drink, not a prosthetic penis. You can see the woman drinking whatever the drink is from a straw, the 'tube container' is a can complete with ring-pull, and the tagline is "15 flavours you'd love to mix."
The message here basically seems to be "Mixing these flavours is like giving a woman a big hard dick!"
Is it supposed to be a representation of how trans people are exploited for financial gain by corporations? Considering it's a billboard I'm assuming it's a capitalist business that is using stereotypes to promote their products/services.
It's hard to tell how this lands in the greater context of the world they're trying to depict. Blade Runner 2049 was a film that featured a world that objectified the "perfect woman" but did so in a way that was highly critical of the dystopian things it was depicting.
This initially reads as a lot more... crude. So much so that I think it'll be hard for it to feel like anything other more than questionable exploitation. Given their recent history bungling subjects like this, I'm not exactly willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
This initially reads as a lot more... crude. So much so that I think it'll be hard for it to feel like anything other more than questionable exploitation. Given their recent history bungling subjects like this, I'm not exactly willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
This is a company that is more than aware of its and the wider groups past issues with the LGBTQ+ community. In that knowledge they could have easily had a running development blog deep-dive into "Gender in Cyberpunk 2077" to go over the nuances of how they're handling it in light of past failures. Or a Youtube promo about it. Anything really.
They haven't though. Instead, all we have is this shitty in-game ad and zero reason to give them the benefit of the doubt over it.
They haven't though. Instead, all we have is this shitty in-game ad and zero reason to give them the benefit of the doubt over it.
I'm not going to say this isn't a fetishization of LGBT people because it clearly is, but it's a game set in a world where everything seems to be sexualized and fetishized.
It's certainly not immune to criticism, especially with the company's previous screw ups in this area. And I can certainly understand people just not wanting to play a game in a world like that, but I don't know if it's inherently bad without context.
It's certainly not immune to criticism, especially with the company's previous screw ups in this area. And I can certainly understand people just not wanting to play a game in a world like that, but I don't know if it's inherently bad without context.
It's almost like CDPR doesn't get the Cyberpunk genre beyond COOL FUTURE GUNS
That's honestly my take. I even read the OP, before anyone jumps down my throat and dogpiles. I wish I can ask questions but I don't want to deal with the hostility. I'll just watch this thread in silence and see if there is anything I can learn besides what was already posted.
But people still come into this thread asking what the big deal is.
I'm tired of the bigotry and nonsense during pride month.
This is my take as well. Context is everything and we don't have much beyond CDPR's history, but I don't see how this could be transphobic in-universe. In a vacuum the idea of an ad selling the mixing of genders isn't bad in a cyberpunk world, but at the same time it would depend on world building and how its handled.
Sorry mod but I'm gonna quote myself from another thread:
Again, not defending this as on the face of it it's not a good look (again) for the devs however they may other things behind it. Or not, it could just crass.
Also, aren't there actual sexual implants in Cyberpunk?
Mr. Studd and Midnight Lady implants?
Like, sex and gender is festishised and overblown.
After all, this is a universe which prides itself on "style over substance"...
Mr. Studd and Midnight Lady implants?
Like, sex and gender is festishised and overblown.
After all, this is a universe which prides itself on "style over substance"...
I think there will be a lot to discuss when the game comes out, given the world they're trying to reproduce.
I don't think this is controversial in a general sense, i think it falls in context with the fact that in the game all social norms and social constructs are melting and merging together.
I don't think this is controversial in a general sense, i think it falls in context with the fact that in the game all social norms and social constructs are melting and merging together.
Context is indeed everything and I don't think the company that has repeatedly made fun of LGBT people is trying to have a nuanced conversation
Except it's not an ad selling the mixing of genders, it's an ad selling a fizzy drink. It's basically this advert for J20:
But instead of 'cats and dogs' it's 'women and a dick'
Really? Damn, I thought the flavor thing comment was for...ahem, oral pleasure. The little thing she is sucking on even looks like a penis. Oh well, disregard my post then.
User Banned (permanent): dismissing concerns surrounding bigotry across a series of posts, account still in junior phase
I've read enough. This site is no longer a place I want to be. I've read for a long time, joined and briefly discussed, but you guys on here are worse than the people your fighting against. You put up these honey pot threads based on political agendas and then when anyone comes in and has anything that you percieve as a different view other than yours then it's full attack mode and then ban mode.
If I truly dont see an issue with this then that needs to be something you must handle and understand.
This is the future. If the author has depicted advertisements to be of this nature then that's the world you must accept.
Thank you for this response. This is a response I can respect. I understand to some of you on here that this ad is disrespectful to you. It absolutely is not to me. Not one bit. You must understand that I do not see a single issue, but that doesn't give you the right to answer aggressively or label me as some insensitive bigot.
Thank you for allowing me to see a different perspective rather than telling pointing or labeling.
If CDPR did not have the history they have with supposedly unintentional transphobic comments this would have passed as a juvenile attempt to tongue-in-cheek parody of ads that more or less fits the tone of the cyberpunk decadent world it is supposed to be set in. As things stand for CDPR red tho, they should have avoided it. This almost feels like intentional trolling...
I'll try and hope there is thoughtful discussion about things like gender and sexuality in Cyberpunk but I agree there's no real reason to give them benefit of the doubt. Dystopian settings like this one are really fertile ground to explore these themes in a nuanced and progressive way, but I agree there's not much reason to give benefit of the doubt here.
Being upset because a company has repeatedly made statements about the queer community isn't a political agenda. Get the hell out of here with that privileged nonsense.
People like you dismissing us and our concerns when we just want to be treated equally are a big problem in this industry and a reason why these developers turn a blind eye. You're supporting this through your wallet.
It could be, but if it is advertising a prosthetic penis then it's doing a very bad job at it lol
There's also the adverts to the left of it advertising the same (or a similar) product that says "Feel the Chemistry," without a genital in sight so they're clearly going for sexual imagery/innuendo here. The ad to the right of it seems like it could be for the same drink as well as it says "the sky's the limit!" with a phallic rocket in the background but it's not 100% obvious.
Yet if there's an issue coming from the LGBTQ+ community you can't apply the same courtesy.
Telling that you feel you're more deserving of "understanding" than those discussing in the thread.
I figured it was the Mix It Up part that was offending people?
That combined with the context of the image gives off the vibe that you can just "mix it up" by sleeping with a trans person to kinda spice life up, hence the "fetishization".
The dick picture outline alone without any text would be completely meaningless and harmless, it's the combination of the dick and the message that makes this problematic.
You are asking for something you aren't willing to give an inch on yourself.
Yeah, I feel the same. As a white cis dude and one who has been called "SJW" more than once, I get this kind of stuff based on the setting and context of the game. This is supposed to be a dystopian future where everything went to shit after all.
THAT SAID, is hard to give CDPR the benefit of the doubt after all that has transpired with them lately, not to mention the reports of the game having unimaginative stereotypes. Guess we'll have to wait and see this world fully realized and the story to see what's behind the motivations of it. If all your fears become true, please, keep bashing these people.
Ok, thanks.
Guess I'm out of this thread. I hope everybody feels good about gaming. That's all and sometimes I do seem to miss things that seem not right :(
This game exists in our world. We can't appeal to the ideals of a world that doesn't exist, and we shouldn't use fiction to justify hurtful portrayals. CDPR are entirely in control of the social outlook of the game and can choose to make it a world that handles social issues better.
Hmm, maybe it's Viagra:the soda? Either way, if it is an ad for a soda, even with erectile properties, then I agree that is a TERRIBLE way to go about it. I almost wonder if it is supposed to show that it gets women horny (represented by a penis) and I'd say "nah....no one could possibly be that stupid to do it", but apparently CDPR IS that stupid so who can say?
"You're worse than the people you're fighting against."
We know how you feel
Hard to tell without the context of the game. We should find out in about 8 months, or maybe earlier when previews come out.
I'll add this point to that:
It's important to recognise that CDPR could have done any amount of outreach at any point to reassure and quell any ill-will. That we're having to wait and see is entirely up to them, and when what little we do see isn't great it's not exactly encouraging.
This thread is going exactly like the Avengers PoC thread. The dismissive nature of "well this is how things are in a dystopian future" is right along the same line of "they're all white because that's how they've always been" is frustrating. As if that is an appropriate way to handle things. Maybe use this power you have with a huge audience and frame things better in your world instead of belittling a community once again.
Yes, let's give the company with homophobic and transphobic comments the benefit of the doubt for 8 months.
Yes, let's give the company with homophobic and transphobic comments the benefit of the doubt for 8 months.
Yeah I know, lemme rephrase that, using gender fluidity to market a product isn't bad in itself. The in-game ad doesn't seem all that different from the types of sexualized ads I'm used to seeing, just shifting from sexualizing a woman to sexualizing a person with ambiguous gender.
Sure, there could be no context and it could be just some throwaway imagery, but in that case I really can't see it as being intentionally demeaning. This isn't some joke ad you'd see in a game like Duke Nukem, its the context of the world that would make it transphobic.
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