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BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,947
I'm surprised I didn't see any thread on this. VICE actually went deep into Uygur dominate territories in China to investigate on the terrible treatment they are suffering at the hands of the Chinese government. Concentration camps. Re-education. Destruction of their culture. Kidnapping and brainwashing of children. They see it all. This is one of the better VICE investigative pieces that I've seen. And, it was pretty risky of them to return for the second trip since the government knew pretty much as soon as they landed who they were. However, I supposed that protected them some.

I will say, I think in like two incidents they were sloppy with obscuring identities of people telling their stories. Yes, their face and speech is obscured, but any Chinese government official could easily figure out who they were speaking to based on certain details they kept in the interview and other stuff. But, they need to get the story out.

The scary thing is that this is straight out of 1984 and in truth, nothing can be done about it nor do I think it will stop. The Chinese government is too powerful both economically and militarily to be made to stop these practices. And, what China is doing is something they see as central to maintaining control over their country, the complete destruction of any identity/culture outside of that prescribed by the Communist State. The Uygur's are a threat to the solidarity of the Chinese State and so the State will not stop until their identity is completely erased. Their tactics are evil, yet ingenious. Again, true 1984 come to life.


 
Oct 26, 2017
457
Watched this the other night. It's horrific the amount of times they talk about having to delete footage.

The mother they interviewed that had her family divided was bad enough. And then seeing one of her daughters at a camp via video was heartbreaking.
 

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,975
I had to stop after the Istanbul interviews. This is something exactly out of 1984.

I don't know how any of this will change...
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
The parallels to Nazi Germany are unnerving and horrifying. And the world will do nothing, just like back then.
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
Holy shit that was incredibly brave of them to film all this. Future generations are so fucked. The government there seems to have this locked down.
 

timrtabor123

Member
Feb 11, 2019
1,020
This is why we need some sorta check on China, that authoritarian side of its culture getting exported could be disastrous.
 

BigWinnie1

Banned
Feb 19, 2018
2,757
So i'm not gonna be surprised if we happen to find a mass grave one of these days. Its not looking out of the possibility looking at all this bullshit.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
59,968
Doesn't look like capitalism brought western ideals of freedom to China like many wonks like Jeffrey Zach's oredicted.

It's just more authoritatism with a capitalist wrapper.
 

Reinhard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,590
So i'm not gonna be surprised if we happen to find a mass grave one of these days. Its not looking out of the possibility looking at all this bullshit.
Of course there are mass graves, China is one of the easiest/fastest countries to get an organ replacement because their political / religious prisoners are used as a constant new supply. If you are a prisoner, better hope your organs aren't a match for a relative of someone that's favored by the PRC.
 
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BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,947
Not sure if it's mentioned in the documentary but I'm gonna go ahead and post this here expose that the BBC did showing photo evidence of the camps.


It is brought up, in fact it's far more extensive than the BBCs coverage.

Maybe you should look up what a benevolent dictatorship is.

No, I think you do. You realize a benevolent dictator doesn't exist, right? It's a fantasy.
 

Croc Man

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,546
Nuclear deterrents stop any outside intervention.
Technology keeps those inside in place.
Then add greed on top.

Oppressive regimes are going to be near impossible to remove.
 

neon_dream

Member
Dec 18, 2017
3,644
Authoritarianism can be a great thing if in the correct hands.

1L8JzJO.gif
 

Nome

Designer / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,312
NYC
If you think executing drug addicts is benevolent, then you showed yourself.
If a prosperous, beloved, autocratic government can't be benevolent on the basis of executing drug traffickers--with widespread domestic support--I'd ask what you'd consider a benevolent democracy, if you don't consider those fantasies too.
 

RustyNails

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
24,586
Abhorrent.

They also force feed them pork in the camps and make sure they don't keep beards.
 

plau

Member
Oct 30, 2017
235
In theory benevolent dictatorship sounds nice. Unfortunately true altruism and benevolence don't exist, and a dictator that acts nice one day can't be trusted to act nice tomorrow. They may be in a position where they can afford being nice, or in a position where being nice is advantageous. They could just enjoy public acceptance/worship, but they're looking for their own interests.
 

RustyNails

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
24,586
Also I really would love to hear the China apologists address this
They will bring up the Han Chinese Muslims and how the government does not discriminate against them (they do) and their policies against Uighurs is more of a national security issue because they say there's a separatist movement.
 

Richter1887

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
39,146
Once again I don't even know what to say as I already said everything the last time.

I will say this:

Fuck China, their supporters and anybody who defends them.
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,865
Does that exempt them from being a benevolent dictatorship?
There's strong support for their drug laws domestically anyway.

There was strong support in the 1930's for putting Jews and other "subhumans" in the Ghettos, what's your point?

A government is made up of thousands of people, and multiple different bodies with different interests. Many of which are understatedly violent and nationalistically driven. Even the more peaceful democracies rely on a democratic process to prevent abuse of laws because those that seek to absue their country always rise to the top through political power play and maneuver.

You allow police to execute drug dealers, anyone the state doesn't like is gonna be labelled a drug dealer pretty damn fast.
 

Artdayne

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
5,015
China has a very corrupt government and it's sometimes easy to forget it living in the United States because they manage to avoid controversy as much as possible. They are the ones that prevent any military action against North Korea, the way they treat prisoners is so inhumane, their treatment of Muslims is evil.
 
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BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,947
If a prosperous, beloved, autocratic government can't be benevolent on the basis of executing drug traffickers--with widespread domestic support--I'd ask what you'd consider a benevolent democracy, if you don't consider those fantasies too.

The suppression of the Uyghur minorities has received widespread domestic support in China. Did you even watch the video? Do you think China's government is benevolent? A benevolent autocracy is a fantasy because absolute power corrupts absolutely and one man's savior is another's dictator. Let's say you're a benevolent dictator and you want to impose universal healthcare on everyone but some citizens aren't for it, they work hard and don't want to pay higher taxes to support everyone else as selfish as that may be. But,, you go ahead and impose it anyway. What do you do to those people that still refuse? Jail them indefinitely? Execute them without a trial? At that point you're no longer a benevolent ruler, you're just another dictator.
 

Nome

Designer / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,312
NYC
The suppression of the Uyghur minorities has received widespread domestic support in China. Did you even watch the video? Do you think China's government is benevolent? A benevolent autocracy is a fantasy because absolute power corrupts absolutely and one man's savior is another's dictator. Let's say you're a benevolent dictator and you want to impose universal healthcare on everyone but some citizens aren't for it, they work hard and don't want to pay higher taxes to support everyone else as selfish as that may be. But,, you go ahead and impose it anyway. What do you do to those people that still refuse? Jail them indefinitely? Execute them without a trial? At that point you're no longer a benevolent ruler, you're just another dictator.
OK, which of these "just another dictator" things happened in Singapore?
 

m_shortpants

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,199
Fuck the Chinese government

I can't think of anything or anyone rising up to challenge this injustice or any others they commit
 

flare

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,306
Just an incredibly frustrating watch for multiple reasons. Really incredible and brave work by those journalists though.