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Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
I'm a big Bleach fan, but come on. Ichigo lived off one move the entire manga, Getsuga Tenshou. He branched out only when his Hollow side was involved. This just seems to be more so of a Shonen thing with main characters.

Ichigo doesn't fight stupidly though. He's just completely uncreative with his moveset which makes him more of an outlier.

Luffy and Naruto are creative when they fight for instance.

It's really interesting how little super genius protags there are in battle shonen. The closest thing to the strategy you get in a Jojo battle is... maybe a sports shonen? The strategic elements, counterplay and teamwork (along with fantastical powers depending on the shonen) are kind of similar.

Writing a super-genius as a main character is much harder than writing an idiot main character. The more competent a main character is, the harder he is to write.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,027
Lots of Goku talk, but I would only say Goku is dumb outside of battle, when it comes to actually fighting he's a genius.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Deku is bad at combat because he's completely inexperienced as a random guy wielding a megaton battery power with no buildup. It's completely deliberate.

You can be a great analyst but be terrible when actually having to do it yourself.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,175
Not what OP is saying though.

Deku is an idiot when he fights but smart outside combat according to OP.

Most shonen characters are portrayed as smart in combat but dim outside combat.
Most main characters are also the most powerful one (or one of the most powerful ones) in their group. Deku (until recently) isn't. And he's treated as such, despite his being one of the finalists in the school tournament, no heroes really want to take him on in their agencies, and really only All Might has (unfounded) unwavering belief in him. I think the manga does a decent enough job showing his planning skills, but yeah in physical combat early on all he can do is hurt himself.

Most other shonen protags are like geniuses or chosen ones or even if they're despised, have hidden power that can overwhelm everyone.
 

Thatonedice1

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,112
Working on that also.
Also OP I don't really know why you think Deku is dumb. Besides the kicking thing (Seriously wth?) He hasn't really done dumb things. During his fight with Todoroki he didn't really have much of a choice to fight all out because he couldn't control One for All. Deku didn't "learn to punch softer" He literally couldn't throw a punch without breaking his arm will One for All was activated until he learned to throttle the power some. Thats what the whole "egg in the microwave" thing was about.

When he fought Stain I can't really think what was dumb during the fight. He held back because he didn't know what was Stain's quirk and when he figure out what it was he took advantage of his shorter wait time.

Muscular might be what you are talking about. Because he actually fights with broken arms through most of the fight but again, he had no choice. He had to protect Koda and he couldn't just turn around and hide with him. Muscular proved pretty really in the fight to be faster then Deku. That's why he kept telling Koda to run while he distracted him. Cause he probably knew he was fucked. Isn't his fault Koda didn't run.

I don't get what's so dumb about Deku in his fights. Like I said he over thinks things because it's his character but he isn't being dumb. Unless you think he could have won any of these fights without hurting himself.
 
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ChubbyHuggs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,262
He has swords that cancel magic...why he would sit out fights?
Because it's bringing a knife to a gun fight? The only thing that saves him is he can hit a mean fastball and somehow withstand the force of magic smashing his arms to bits.

I don't think Naruto in battle was ever very dumb?
Wasn't his main strategy before to just toss a tidal wave of clones at people? His dumbest thing in battle was probably trying to talk his opponents out of being evil.
 

Jintor

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,407
i've come around on the leg thing. it's a dumb thing out of context but Deku is very clearly the kind of person who would overthink the shit out of stuff and not see obvious things if they were staring him in the face.
 

Sandfox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,743
Both Ichigo and Yusuke were known for their fighting skills before they got their powers.

Gash Bell was a dumbass. He got carried by Kiyomaro.
I was referring to Kiyomaro lol

Because it's bringing a knife to a gun fight? The only thing that saves him is he can hit a mean fastball and somehow withstand the force of magic smashing his arms to bits.
Not really. His anti-magic sword is way more effective than that and in a lot of cases stronger than the magic he's going up against.
 

Kensuke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,397
Netherlands
All Might is honestly a terrible teacher/mentor, something that is noted by some characters too. He puts way too much pressure on Deku at the start of the story and rushes him into an elite university a day after acquiring the power. Had Deku actually trained a year or so before entering UA, that could have solved a lot of problems. There was no reason to rush that hard. All Might could have let his friends train him for a while.
 

1000% H

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,639
If Luffy was as dumb as Deku in combat he never would have figured out he could belly bounce cannon balls and the Straw Hats would be on their 35th boat by now.
 

Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819
Because it's bringing a knife to a gun fight? The only thing that saves him is he can hit a mean fastball and somehow withstand the force of magic smashing his arms to bits.
With what he can actually do with those swords, he'd be dumber if he didn't participate in fights. It's the most OP ability to have in a world where everyone fights with magic.
 

Cess007

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,093
B.C., Mexico
wd4H46G.gif

That's real?? As in that is what actually is Deku saying?
 
Oct 26, 2017
20,440
Because it's bringing a knife to a gun fight? The only thing that saves him is he can hit a mean fastball and somehow withstand the force of magic smashing his arms to bits.


Wasn't his main strategy before to just toss a tidal wave of clones at people? His dumbest thing in battle was probably trying to talk his opponents out of being evil.

Talk No Jutsu is very dumb narrative-wise but it worked 90% of the time so it was very smart in-universe.
 

NSESN

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,301
People here seem to only watch the fights and not the story, there is a reason why Deku can't do much with his powers at first, he just got it and it hurts himself
 

NSESN

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,301
i've come around on the leg thing. it's a dumb thing out of context but Deku is very clearly the kind of person who would overthink the shit out of stuff and not see obvious things if they were staring him in the face.
Seriously this a big example why I think some people skip the story, Deku don't use legs because All Might never uses legs, simple
 

Thatonedice1

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,112
Working on that also.
If Luffy was as dumb as Deku in combat he never would have figured out he could belly bounce cannon balls and the Straw Hats would be on their 35th boat by now.

Deku isn't dumb though. He over thinks things, that's his character. I'm trying to see where the OP and people in this thread are coming from but I can't think of a dumb thing Deku has done in combat. Like the leg thing might be pushing "Overthinking it" to a reach but it isn't out of character. Also Deku does make smart moves in combat for the most part. During early MHA he was breaking his bones all the time because he literally couldn't use One for All without breaking his bones.
 

Deleted member 3208

Oct 25, 2017
11,934
I still weep that Midoriya-shounen turned out to be another dumb shounen protagonist. Dammit!
 

ChubbyHuggs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,262
Not really. His anti-magic sword is way more effective than that and in a lot of cases stronger than the magic he's going up against.
With what he can actually do with those swords, he'd be dumber if he didn't participate in fights. It's the most OP ability to have in a world where everyone fights with magic.
Neither of these mitigate how dumb it is to attempt to smack a fireball with the broad side of a sword.

Comparing Deku who has the strongest physical quirk in his universe, not knowing how to fully use it and blowing out his arms to a guy who goes around smacking magic out of the air that could destroy cities. We are far enough in both series that they know more, but early on; one is dumber than the other.
 

Jintor

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,407
the more competent deku got with his quirk the less exciting some of his battles have become frankly cos now he does do a lot of 'leap at a guy and punch them'. But that's probably why he's been sidelined a bit, at least in the anime right now.
 

NSESN

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,301
the more competent deku got with his quirk the less exciting some of his battles have become frankly cos now he does do a lot of 'leap at a guy and punch them'. But that's probably why he's been sidelined a bit, at least in the anime right now.
I mean
His best battle is against gentle where he is competent with his quirk and outsmarts the enemy to use their quirk against them
 

psynergyadept

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,595
Deku seems to be averge in battle, Deku is fully aware of the cost of using his power early in the anime/manga. the point about the kicking is out of battle as well.(but equally stupid) once he masters "full cowling" aspect of his power Deku is pretty legit, and is even better right now in the manga.

Also Asta seems to be pretty damn stupid in battle, the only reason he wins is because the sheer brokenness of his power.
 

Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819
Neither of these mitigate how dumb it is to attempt to smack a fireball with the broad side of a sword.

Comparing Deku who has the strongest physical quirk in his universe, not knowing how to fully use it and blowing out his arms to a guy who goes around smacking magic out of the air that could destroy cities. We are far enough in both series that they know more, but early on; one is dumber than the other.
But why is that dumb? If that's what his sword can do, why is it dumb to do it? To send back attacks that are sent at you?
Like, what's even dumb about that?

Is your point that he endangers people by reflecting spells? When has he actually endangered or hurt someone he was trying to protect by doing that?
Also Asta seems to be pretty damn stupid in battle
When? How so? What's an instance of him doing a dumb thing in a battle?
 
OP
OP
Skittles

Skittles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,257
Seriously this a big example why I think some people skip the story, Deku don't use legs because All Might never uses legs, simple
So Deku who admired all might for like a decade, never once had a thought like "man, if I had those power I would THIS with them"? This is the dude who had notebooks going over everything a certain hero was and what they did
 

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
Because it's bringing a knife to a gun fight? The only thing that saves him is he can hit a mean fastball and somehow withstand the force of magic smashing his arms to bits.


Wasn't his main strategy before to just toss a tidal wave of clones at people? His dumbest thing in battle was probably trying to talk his opponents out of being evil.
Talk No Jutsu is very dumb narrative-wise but it worked 90% of the time so it was very smart in-universe.

To be fair, the only person that Naruto has ever tried to Talk No Jutsu during combat is Sasuke.

Obito, Gaara and Nagato were pretty much done.

And for Gaara specifically, Naruto was crawling over there to kill him while he was talk no jutsuing him.
 

NSESN

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,301
So Deku who admired all might for like a decade, never once had a thought like "man, if I had those power I would THIS with them"? This is the dude who had notebooks going over everything a certain hero was and what they did
No because he wanted to be All Might, not All Might that kicks instead
 

MistaTwo

SNK Gaming Division Studio 1
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
2,456
Seriously this a big example why I think some people skip the story, Deku don't use legs because All Might never uses legs, simple

That's a pretty good example showing just how stupid he is.

If he can look at his own physical stature and build compared to All Might's own build and think that he should fight the same way...
Sorry when it comes to battles his IQ drops down to single digits.
 
Oct 25, 2017
56,654
I just wanna say Tanjiro kamado is great that's all I got to add. My deku slander hour only happens from 7am-7pm I missed the window
 

Luckett_X

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,406
Leeds, UK
In recent manga chapters, its gone into the fact he's running calculations in his head and trying to throttle his power so he doesn't explode his body, and how can move past the limits of having to do all that in his head while at the same time popping off instantaneous reaction superhuman punch blasts against murderous megavillains.

One For All stacking and accumulating and then being passed to a kid without enough muscle mass is causing complications, and that makes the manga a bit more gripping rather than him just getting the hang of it like its just super saiyan energy steroids or something.
 
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NSESN

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,301
That's a pretty good example showing just how stupid he is.

If he can look at his own physical stature and build compared to All Might's own build and think that he should fight the same way...
Sorry when it comes to battles his IQ drops down to single digits.
Again you are ignoring the story, it isn't about IQ or anything, Deku, like almost everyone in the story, idolizes All Might and to be just like him. It isn't Deku being dumb, it is about him being a extreme fanboy that lives in the shadow of his idol
It is very similar to how Todoroki's obsession of not becoming like his dad weights him down.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,963
Mob? Stupid might be harsh as it's more he just straight up doesn't want to fight, he just wins because he's incomparably more powerful than nearly everyone he fights.
 
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Deleted member 1190

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,663
I always took it as him starting off dumb and inexperienced with both his quirk and fighting in general, and thus only imitates what he knew from All Might, which was fighting with/using his hands. As it goes on, he begins learning better control and realizing he can apply the quirk in his own ways (thus the kicking stuff.) Never really thought of him as being dumb in fights. Just completely inexperienced and trying to imitate his biggest hero.

That being said, wait till some of yall catch up with the manga and see whats going on with him in more recent chapters. My dude has a lot going on in his head during fights these days.

Learning to use multiple quirks at once is certainly going to be spicing up his fighting style quite a bit.
 

metalmonstar

Member
May 17, 2018
580
If you want a good shounen lead that's super smart outside of battle and uses that intellect in fights read Gash Bell/Zatch Bell.

Dr. Riddles wasn't the lead though.

HunterXHunter has some smart fights. I mean Gon is dumb but everyone else isn't

Goku is an idiot in and out of combat. For instance in the tournament of power prelude he tells Gohan to wing it when Gohan was going to take it slow to feel out his opponent.
 
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Jintor

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,407
i'm not caught up with the manga, probably once this season finishes
 

psynergyadept

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,595
When? How so? What's an instance of him doing a dumb thing in a battle?

He's done nothing stupid in battle(so forgive me on that) it's just his fighting style requires no thinking...like at all. His saving grace is he physique and an absolute hax ability in which he can nullify magic; atleast the other mages have a grimore full of offensive defensive and healing spells. Asta fighting style is: I'm gonna smack you with my big ole anti-magic sword....and yell for 90% of the fight....Asta's magic ability might be some sort of sound magic!!!
 

-Pyromaniac-

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,365
I've said it in the actual thread but what bothers me is he is the least cool person on the entire show. Legit almost every other character is cooler than him. He also has an amazing quirk with tons of potential yet doesn't seem all that interested in developing it further or getting stronger. Just gliding along one moment to the next. But I guess that's partly a pacing/writing problem.
 

Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819
He's done nothing stupid in battle(so forgive me on that) it's just his fighting style requires no thinking...like at all. His saving grace is he physique and an absolute hax ability in which he can nullify magic; atleast the other mages have a grimore full of offensive defensive and healing spells. Asta fighting style is: I'm gonna smack you with my big ole anti-magic sword....and yell for 90% of the fight....Asta's magic ability might be some sort of sound magic!!!
Sure, his fighting style is simple because the task at hand is only ever simple. But I wouldn't call him dumb over just having a simple job to do, rather he just doesn't have to show he's particularly smart.

For what it's worth, there have been times when he's had to use his head a little in neat ways like dropping his swords to jump into a portal (that the swords would've cancelled) to punch a spatial-magic user or just throwing his sword into someone's chest while shrouded in smoke because they'd flown away from his normal range and started gloating while firing off energy blasts.