There are now 34 million gamers in Germany, and they're shifting away from PC

F4raday · Jul 16, 2019

This is generally on par with world trends:

This is revenue - not "active gamers", but it shows the same trends - the market share of mobile is increasing and it is begining to overshadow PC and consoles.

That said, what is really interesting is that strong drop in 2018. This seems like an anomaly, because why would people suddenly stop using PC's for gaming. I uget the increase on the mobile side of things (especially that there is no reason for those categories not to overlap, PC gamers could very well also be mobile gamers), i don't get the dive on the PC side.

I'm also struggling to find the source of those information. What I've found is this:

https://www.game.de/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/2019_Guide-to-the-German-Games-Industry_web.pdf

Which is an report on German Games Industry by Games Industry Association using stats from (among other things) GfK, but there is no data on the number of active PC gamers in 2018 (there are the 2016-17 stats that the author of the article quotes). I suppose the data is available only in German.

Also, journalists who don't link to their sources are trash.

astro · Jul 16, 2019

Snakeeee said:
Overt time yes, in my opinio the pc is the best value, that is why is my main platform, but the consumer does not see that. It see the upfront value and goes for the cheap option.

Yah im talking about new vs new.

Just stop making claims about PC costs when you're clearly not up to speed.

Deleted member 52190 · Jul 16, 2019

Kyougar said:
so you can play your console without a TV?

You can with the swtich, and what i said about that is for families whitch already own a tv instead of having to buy a monitor.

JoeInky said:
That's subjective as fuuuuck.

You could have just stuck with your original line and been less of an idiot, or just originally stated "console gaming is marginally cheaper" but this is just stupid.

How are you quantifying value? Do I get more value out of my PS4 that I haven't touched for years than my PC that I game on almost very day?

Im talking about the cost of buying the console vs pc and stop calling peopels idiot just because they have a different opinion compare to you.

pswii60 said:
I remember my first desktop PC in 1994 was a 486 - not even high end at that time - and cost a whopping £1,500.00. And no, it didn't have a graphics card. They weren't a thing then.

PC pricing is pretty reasonable these days.

Same old arguments in this thread I've been reading for the last 20 years though.

Yes pc is cheaper compare to 20 years ago.

Hektor · Jul 16, 2019

Snakeeee said:
Maybe, justg maybe, leraning the difference between already owning a tv instead of having to buy a monitor for or pc? Just maybe... And the Swtich proves your point wrong.

You brainiac know you can just plug a pc into a tv as well?

Apophis · Jul 16, 2019

Snakeeee said:
thats 3x the price point of a console. Is still cheaper that getting a pc.

Good luck with that.

You said they're doing the same thing. Which is false. It's not even close. The entry level pc will play AC on max settings at around 50fps.

Deleted member 52190 · Jul 16, 2019

Hektor said:
You brainiac know you can just plug a pc into a tv as well?

Are you going to plug your pc to you living room? Is a family with barely any knowledge of tec doing it? Just buy a laptop because it is easier to set up.

Fortinbras · Jul 16, 2019

Stop comparing your dollar prices to our German Euro for PC parts. Shit is much more expensive here.

Apophis · Jul 16, 2019

Snakeeee said:
Are you going to plug your pc to you living room? Is a family with barely any knowledge of tec doing it? Just buy a laptop because it is easier to set up.

You're misinformed.

pswii60 · Jul 16, 2019

People in here are focusing way too much on PC vs console.

Console 2017 -> 2018: 16.0m to 16.7m = +0.7m
PC 2017 -> 2018: 17.3m to 13.4m = -3.9m

So even if we assume all the lost PC gamers are transitioning to other platforms, console actually only accounts for a small portion (less than 17%) of that drop.

Really we would need to understand their methodology for these numbers, because it does seem a little strange that PC should remain level for so long and then suddenly drop, without a similar increase elsewhere.

But it's clear that consoles and their pricing can not be the key reason if this drop is truly correct.

Acquila · Jul 16, 2019

Walked into topic, read an abnormally large dip in PC consumer base in 2018.

Scrolls looking for discussions regarding it, nothing but the same old console versus PC wars.

Can we have a reset?

Zyrox · Jul 16, 2019

Meanwhile I always grew up with consoles and now I wish I had a gaming PC. My poor ass can't afford one though ;_;
One day...

Deleted member 52190 · Jul 16, 2019

Acquila said:
Walked into topic, read an abnormally large dip in PC consumer base in 2018.

Scrolls looking for discussions regarding it, nothing but the same old console versus PC wars.

Can we have a reset?

We can, im sorry i derail the thread.

Deleted member 18857 · Jul 16, 2019

F4raday said:
This is generally on par with world trends:

It's interesting that they put "smartphones and watches" together. Is gaming on watches really a thing? Isn't it like 99.9% smartphones/tablet and some scraps on watches?
It's like a smart watch developer wanted to say "look! Our business is growing" by mixing the two together. Why is VR on console (And TV?) but not on PC? Handheld games crashing into oblivion, is it because Switch is now counted in consoles?

Omnistalgic · Jul 16, 2019

Ru'oh PC vs console wars bout to start with that dropped stat.

Tygre · Jul 16, 2019

pswii60 said:
People in here are focusing way too much on PC vs console.

Console 2017 -> 2018: 16.0m to 16.7m = +0.7m

PC 2017 -> 2018: 17.3m to 13.4m = -3.9m

So even if we assume all the lost PC gamers are transitioning to other platforms, console actually only accounts for a small portion (less than 17%) of that drop.

Really we would need to understand their methodology for these numbers, because it does seem a little strange that PC should remain level for so long and then suddenly drop, without a similar increase elsewhere.

But it's clear that consoles and their pricing can not be the key reason if this drop is truly correct.

Yeah, there's nothing here to suggest a shift PC to Console.

The Mobile market is obviously booming, but the huge reported drop in PC is weird as there's nowhere obvious for those people to have gone, unless they just stopped altogether.

JahIthBer · Jul 16, 2019

What type of gamers are we talking about when people are moving to smart phones, that sounds like people playing farmville on facebook moving to clash of clans on iphone.

F4raday · Jul 16, 2019

Iggy said:
It's interesting that they put "smartphones and watches" together. Is gaming on watches really a thing? Isn't it like 99.9% smartphones/tablet and some scraps on watches?
It's like a smart watch developer wanted to say "look! Our business is growing" by mixing the two together. Why is VR on console (And TV?) but not on PC? Handheld games crashing into oblivion, is it because Switch is now counted in consoles?

I guess it's for statistics sake, though I don't get why smarphones and watches are put together, but tablets are a seperate category, even though (to my poor knowledge) most of the products for those two overlap.

Tygre said:
Yeah, there's nothing here to suggest a shift PC to Console.

The Mobile market is obviously booming, but the huge reported drop in PC is weird as there's nowhere obvious for those people to have gone, unless they just stopped altogether.

Exactly! This is just weird! It's not like PC gamers just dropped PC for mobile alltogether, there's no reason for the same people to be in both categories. People just decided to dump PC gaming whatsoever and I just can't wrap my head arround why would that happen so rapidly and in 2018?

Can anyone track the source to that?

Kyougar · Jul 16, 2019

Back on Topic:
The loss of the PC Player base has no equivalent growth in other branches:

game-Grafik_Smartphones-sind-die-beliebteste-Spiele-Plattform-Deutschlands-1024x724.png

also this Little tidbit:

Die verwendeten Daten basieren auf Erhebungen des GfK Consumer Panels, der GfK Entertainment, der GfK POS Measurement und App Annie. Bitte beachten Sie: Die aktuellen Daten können aufgrund eines Dienstleisterwechsels und der damit einhergehenden Methodik-Änderung nicht mit den 2018 veröffentlichten Marktdaten verglichen werden. Neu ist, dass die Daten zum Markt für Spiele-Apps von dem App-Marktforschungsspezialisten App Annie stammen.

Don't know if it matters for the playerbase statistic, but the paragraph mentions, that they changed services for data gathering and the 2018 report can't be directly compared to the 2017 report.

Acquila · Jul 16, 2019

Tygre said:
Yeah, there's nothing here to suggest a shift PC to Console.

The Mobile market is obviously booming, but the huge reported drop in PC is weird as there's nowhere obvious for those people to have gone, unless they just stopped altogether.

The only PC related thing I can think of in 2018 was that it was a terrible time for building PCs... but that doesn't explain why they'd all just stop playing. Maybe Fortnite being playable everywhere else when people couldn't upgrade had an effect?

Don't know if it matters for the playerbase statistic, but the paragraph mentions, that they changed services for data gathering and the 2018 report can't be directly compared to the 2018 report.

Oh probably this.

Tygre · Jul 16, 2019

Kyougar said:
Don't know if it matters for the playerbase statistic, but the paragraph mentions, that they changed services for data gathering and the 2018 report can't be directly compared to the 2018 report.

Marble · Jul 16, 2019

astro said:
Not true.

Over time, PC is cheaper due to cheaper games and no online paywalls.

Also your 1k requirement to play Odyssy is total fabrication. A 500-600 PC could do that easily.

It all depends on the person. Not everybody plays online and if you do on console, you also get about 24-30 games per year within the subscription. The mainstream gamer plays af few games per year and some even only get games on sale or used. You're gonna need A LOT of years to get to a point where PC is cheaper over time and even then, your PC needs to be upgraded probably, or already has been upgraded. Only for a very fanatic gamer that buys brand new releases each month and plays online, PC will actually be cheaper over time.

Dr. Mario · Jul 16, 2019

Kyougar said:
Back on Topic:
The loss of the PC Player base has no equivalent growth in other branches:

also this Little tidbit:

Don't know if it matters for the playerbase statistic, but the paragraph mentions, that they changed services for data gathering and the 2018 report can't be directly compared to the 2017 report.

Not sure if that last sentence should be read as an explanation or a separate tidbit, but it seems like it's mostly the mobile data that should not be compared due to the use of AppAnnie, and not the other data which still seem to be derived from GfK.

I think it's more likely that the shift to mobile is either underreported because of the new data, or that people used to e.g. play games on PC and mobile, but fully shifted to (probably mostly Fortnite and PUBG) mobile.

Sankara · Jul 16, 2019

Kyougar said:
Don't know if it matters for the playerbase statistic, but the paragraph mentions, that they changed services for data gathering and the 2018 report can't be directly compared to the 2017 report.

lol

Gamesindustry.biz and other outlets picking this up should probably mention this.

Dalik · Jul 16, 2019

Kyougar said:
Don't know if it matters for the playerbase statistic, but the paragraph mentions, that they changed services for data gathering and the 2018 report can't be directly compared to the 2017 report.

Nice thread lol

EloKa · Jul 16, 2019

While I would agree that smartphones have the largest player base - there is no way that the PC gaming userbase dropped over 20% in a single year.
Do we know what they counted as "gamer"? Usually you're already counted as a gamer if you play some random smartphone game for 5 minutes every 6 months or so.

Snakeeee said:
Find my a pc that can play Assasins Creed Odysey for less that 1000$, with everything not just the tower.

Hi there and welcome to 2019! It's fun to play with nostalgia but you could also check the recommended specs for the game and what those PC parts do actually cost. You get all the recommended parts together for less than $400. Those other $600 are enough to buy a tower, monitor, keyboard and mouse. Hell, you might even get a mousepad for your remaining balance. Amazing, isn't it? The $1000 meme is dumb btw.

Kyougar · Jul 16, 2019

Dr. Mario said:
Not sure if that last sentence should be read as an explanation or a separate tidbit, but it seems like it's mostly the mobile data that should not be compared due to the use of AppAnnie, and not the other data which still seem to be derived from GfK.

I think it's more likely that the shift to mobile is either underreported because of the new data, or that people used to e.g. play games on PC and mobile, but fully shifted to (probably mostly Fortnite and PUBG) mobile.

AppAnnie is something they ADDED for 2018, the paragraph talks about a change of methodology and service Partners.
there is nothing that explains the vanishing of 20% of a playerbase

icecold1983 · Jul 16, 2019

2018 was coming off the whole mining issue where gpu prices were astronomical. there was also the ram price high as well. no idea if this factored in at all but its the only change i can think of at the moment

Deleted member 44371 · Jul 16, 2019

whats the source of the data?

MrCow · Jul 16, 2019

let me tell you about my latest PC gaming experience:

- i haven't played pc in a while but i wanted to play portal 2 again since i had about an hour of free time.
- i start steam - ok steam client update no biggie
- ok i have portal 2 still installed but there is an update - hmmmm ok on consoles could play the singleplayer without the need to update
- yeah update finally finished, now lets finally play the game.... oh some files are corrupted and i need to repair them? estimated time 1h and 15mins
- turn off PC to play switch

Kyougar · Jul 16, 2019

marzoo said:
whats the source of the data?

https://www.game.de/9-prozent-im-plus-deutscher-games-markt-waechst-2018-deutlich/ the report with the paragraph about changing methodology and partners

https://www.game.de/smartphones-sind-die-beliebteste-spiele-plattform/ the report about player numbers and market cap

Spark · Jul 16, 2019

MrCow said:
let me tell you about my latest PC gaming experience:

- i haven't played pc in a while but i wanted to play portal 2 again since i had about an hour of free time.
- i start steam - ok steam client update no biggie
- ok i have portal 2 still installed but there is an update - hmmmm ok on consoles could play the singleplayer without the need to update
- yeah update finally finished, now lets finally play the game.... oh some files are corrupted and i need to repair them? estimated time 1h and 15mins
- turn off PC to play switch

If this data is to be believed, the end result of that situation for roughly 3m people would have to be changed to:

-turn off PC and play NOTHING for a year

The mystery of the vanished 20%.

martincrimson87 · Jul 16, 2019

Weekly era PC gaming is dead thread? yeah weekly era PC gaming is dead thread it is.

BasilZero · Jul 16, 2019

marzoo said:
whats the source of the data?

"Survey of random number of (gamers?)"

Dr. Mario · Jul 16, 2019

Kyougar said:
AppAnnie is something they ADDED for 2018, the paragraph talks about a change of methodology and service Partners.
there is nothing that explains the vanishing of 20% of a playerbase

Yes if they added a metric and a service partner, they changed methodology and service partners, n'est-ce past?

DrScissorsMD · Jul 16, 2019

Am I crazy for thinking comparisons between PC/Console and smartphone gaming aren't a good metric for much? Someone who only plays things like Candy Crush on their lunch break would count as a "smartphone gamer". I know that personally while there have been some fun or interesting smartphone games, even the odd game I've sunk a few hours into in one go, smartphone gaming just feels like an on-the-go, quick fix, avoiding boredom sort of deal. I'd never be at home and have an urge to play some games and think "time to check out the iPhone app store" over turning on my PC / Xbox / PS4 / Switch. I get there are exceptions to the rule (Pokemon Go) but I just don't see them as "gaming" per se.

GhostTrick · Jul 16, 2019

MrCow said:
let me tell you about my latest PC gaming experience:

- i haven't played pc in a while but i wanted to play portal 2 again since i had about an hour of free time.
- i start steam - ok steam client update no biggie
- ok i have portal 2 still installed but there is an update - hmmmm ok on consoles could play the singleplayer without the need to update
- yeah update finally finished, now lets finally play the game.... oh some files are corrupted and i need to repair them? estimated time 1h and 15mins
- turn off PC to play switch

Dont forget that your PC took fire and it burned half of your house.
And yeah, no 60GB updates on console. Totally true.

Deleted member 18857 · Jul 16, 2019

Kyougar said:
AppAnnie is something they ADDED for 2018, the paragraph talks about a change of methodology and service Partners.
there is nothing that explains the vanishing of 20% of a playerbase

Wouldn't changing the methodology explain the drop? In that it's not an actual drop of players, it's the new (I assume more accurate) methodology correcting an over-representation of one population estimated by the obsolete methodology?

Kyougar · Jul 16, 2019

Dr. Mario said:
Yes if they added a metric and a service partner, they changed methodology and service partners, n'est-ce past?

Adding partners is not changing partners. If they only talked about the methodology you would be correct. But they specifically stated "Dienstleisterwechsel" Nothing in the German language could indicate adding another Partner be spelled "Dienstleisterwechsel".

UNLESS AppAnnie also includes a user questionaire function that completely took over the other method of statistically ask for gamers spending habbits and gaming hardware preferences. AND THAT would be a major issue that could skew the statistics. If the methodology of where people play their games changed from Telephone/foot-traffic to a mobile app, well, what would that mean on the type of people who answer the questionaire?

Igniz12 · Jul 16, 2019

Gaf/Era slobbering over the death of the PC continues even into 2019. Japanese devs jumping to Steam/PC broke too many people.

Dr. Mario · Jul 16, 2019

Kyougar said:
Adding partners is not changing partners. If they only talked about the methodology you would be correct. But they specifically stated "Dienstleisterwechsel" Nothing in the German language could indicate adding another Partner be spelled "Dienstleisterwechsel".

UNLESS AppAnnie also includes a user questionaire function that completely took over the other method of statistically ask for gamers spending habbits and gaming hardware preferences. AND THAT would be a major issue that could skew the statistics. If the methodology of where people play their games changed from Telephone/foot-traffic to a mobile app, well, what would that mean on the type of people who answer the questionaire?

Again, if the Mobile data changed from GfK to App Annie, it's a Dienstleisterwechsel for the mobile data.

It's also possible they mean something else, but I would consider it weirder if they mentioned one of the methodology changes specifically but not any other.

Kyougar · Jul 16, 2019

Dr. Mario said:
Again, if the Mobile data changed from GfK to App Annie, it's a Dienstleisterwechsel for the mobile data.

It's also possible they mean something else, but I would consider it weirder if they mentioned one of the methodology changes specifically but not any other.

2 Scenarios:

a) AppAnnie is an additional point of data gathering but the change of service partners was from another company altogether.
b) AppAnnie is the new service partner and all data is gathered through a mobile app, which skews the data point to people who are more in line with mobile gaming.

It doesn't mention anywhere that it is just for the mobile data. And if AppAnnie is used for the gaming hardware of choice question, it would seriously skew the data. ("change" would mean that there are no other methods to gather data, so it can't be scenario a), must be scenario b) and would make the drop in PC gaming users a point of different target audience.)

Sedated · Jul 16, 2019

Mobile gaming rising pc falling. Mobile is the top gaming platform worldwide now so it was just a matter of time.

Dr. Mario · Jul 16, 2019

Kyougar said:
It doesn't mention anywhere that it is just for the mobile data.

It says so literally:

Neu ist, dass die Daten zum Markt für Spiele-Apps von dem App-Marktforschungsspezialisten App Annie stammen.

The thing that is new (this year), is that the Game Apps data is now derived from "app-market-research-specialists" App Annie.

They changed the mobile information from another source previously (presumably GfK) to App Annie this year. That's it. That means that they changed the service provider and the methodology of the total data by adding App Annie. It does not say that App Annie is used for anything else than the mobile data (nor would it make sense because they are app market specialists), and the mobile data also does not show a huge change because of this new methodology. Anything else is conjecture.

Kyougar · Jul 16, 2019

Dr. Mario said:
It says so literally:

The thing that is new (this year), is that the Game Apps Data is now derived from App Annie.

They changed the mobile information from (presumably) GfK to App Annie. That's it. That means that they changed the service provider and the methodology of the total data by adding App Annie. It does not say that App Annie is used for anything else than the mobile data, and the mobile data also does not show a huge change because of this new methodology. Anything else is conjecture.

We are not talking about some percent.
It matters if there is a sudden vanishing of 20% od the playerbase. It would mean that your prior data gathering was bogus.

ArnoldJRimmer · Jul 16, 2019

Weird narrative.

I think it's frigging awesome that a SINGLE gaming platform, a platform that DOES NOT have several multi-billion dollar corporations paying for TV commercials and other marketing, buying games exclusively for their platform and often spending millions on R&D and subsidization of hardware for the past 2 decades plus, is still a match in terms of market share.

One platform vs 3 with all of that corporate backing and it's a match and even way bigger in certain markets.

If that doesn't tell you how fucking awesome people think PC gaming is, and how healthy it is, I don't know what will.

rodrigolfp · Jul 16, 2019

martincrimson87 said:
Weekly era PC gaming is dead thread? yeah weekly era PC gaming is dead thread it is.

Would be interesting if pc gaming dies. Where do consoles would get hardware and software from? :)

GhostTrick said:
Dont forget that your PC took fire and it burned half of your house.
And yeah, no 60GB updates on console. Totally true.

And reverse engineer video drivers yourself for some games to work. :)

ArnoldJRimmer · Jul 16, 2019

rodrigolfp said:
And reverse engineer video drivers yourself for some games to work. :)

And had to uninstall 20 viruses, plus pay Russian hackers 50K just to unlock his steam library.

Plus, I'm sure he always works in front of a PC monitor, and who wants to do that when you're home? Just lay back on mah couch and play some vijeo gaames.

BlueManifest · Jul 16, 2019

Edit: mistake

BlueManifest · Jul 16, 2019

rodrigolfp said:
Would be interesting if pc gaming dies. Where do consoles would get hardware and software from? :)

If pc gaming ever did die for some reason cpu and gpu manufacturers would still be around because they are needed for servers, so if consoles were still around for some reason they would get what they need from them still

rodrigolfp · Jul 16, 2019

BlueManifest said:
If pc gaming ever did die for some reason cpu and gpu manufacturers would still be around because they are needed for servers, so if consoles were still around for some reason they would get what they need from them still

Consoles using Xeons? And the games would be developed only on server hardware?

There are now 34 million gamers in Germany, and they're shifting away from PC

Community Resettler

One Winged Slayer

User requested account closure

self-requested temp ban

Cute Animal Whisperer

Alt Account

GSP

Cute Animal Whisperer

Cute Animal Whisperer

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account

User requested account closure

Cute Animal Whisperer

Cute Animal Whisperer

Cute Animal Whisperer

One Winged Slayer

One Winged Slayer