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Uzumaki Goku

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,289
To keep the dinosaurs from breeding they are all made female, but when Grant is given two female seat belts, he wraps them around him "Life finds a way."

Or how Grant, Saddler and Malcolm are easily able to break out of the tour so they can done and see the lab.

Hammond talked about how "he spared no expense." But yet Nedry betrays him because of his low pay. (Nowadays people might be on Nedry's side more. From what I understand, in the book, Hammond is a lot less sympathetic)

What a delicately crafted movie.
 

ElectricBlanketFire

What year is this?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,854
I'll admit to being a stupid kid when I first saw the movie. I thought they'd just visit the island and everything would be fine.
 
Jan 27, 2019
16,074
Fuck off
The cage on rails in which they put the raptors in the pen in the first few minutes is also ridiculously unsecure. It doesn't lock into a place to prevent it being pushed back, also the gate has to be opened by hand rather than opened electronically. All of which contributed to the employee being killed.
 

Doctor_Thomas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,652
Jurassic Park, both the book and film, is about mankind's hubris and desire to control nature and the dangers of unregulated capitalism. We are part of natural systems we have no control over no matter how much we try to control it. It's actually a wonderful book and film, for two differnt reasons.

Hammond talked about how "he spared no expense." But yet Nedry betrays him because of his low pay. (Nowadays people might be on Nedry's side more. From what I understand, in the book, Hammond is a lot less sympathetic)
Hammond in the book is a capitalist who doesn't care about the people, just ensuring the park opens. He's a monster in the book, not a naive idealist in the film.
 
OP
OP
Uzumaki Goku

Uzumaki Goku

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,289
Jurassic Park, both the book and film, is about mankind's hubris and desire to control nature and the dangers of unregulated capitalism. We are part of natural systems we have no control over no matter how much we try to control it. It's actually a wonderful book and film, for two differnt reasons.


Hammond in the book is a capitalist who doesn't care about the people, just ensuring the park opens. He's a monster in the book, not a naive idealist in the film.
Does he even care about his grandkids?
 

steejee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,613
Hammond in the book is a capitalist who doesn't care about the people, just ensuring the park opens. He's a monster in the book, not a naive idealist in the film.

I've always interpreted his 'naive idealism' in the film as almost being its own statement that you can't play innocent when you were willfully ignoring the warning signs because of your end goal. He acts the lovable bumbling grandpa but the park had so much money put into extraneous things (like the virtual tour / sorta self driving cars, when you could just pay people to drive regular jeeps and provide the tour) when a lot of fundamentals were short changed. Nevermind the way he snaps at Nedry who, despite being a bit of a prick, was right about how much was loaded on him.
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,103
The book had some similarly good hints.

Like relatively early on Malcolm is asking about how they keep track of the dinosaurs and Arnold is bragging about all the different kinds of ways the computer tracks and measures them, produces this graph:

Jurassic-Park1.jpg
 
Oct 27, 2017
552
Omaha
I can't recall if it's in the first or the second book, but isn't a premise behind their research was to be able to market designer pets protected by IP laws? Basically Monsanto x Dog Breeders. Brilliant.

Every child's dream of a pet pikachu, except these will murder you with glee.
 
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OP
Uzumaki Goku

Uzumaki Goku

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,289
I've always interpreted his 'naive idealism' in the film as almost being its own statement that you can't play innocent when you were willfully ignoring the warning signs because of your end goal. He acts the lovable bumbling grandpa but the park had so much money put into extraneous things (like the virtual tour / sorta self driving cars, when you could just pay people to drive regular jeeps and provide the tour) when a lot of fundamentals were short changed. Nevermind the way he snaps at Nedry who, despite being a bit of a prick, was right about how much was loaded on him.
Seriously, the entire Park running was dependent on ONE guy?
 

MrOblong

Member
Oct 27, 2017
264
The book had some similarly good hints.

Like relatively early on Malcolm is asking about how they keep track of the dinosaurs and Arnold is bragging about all the different kinds of ways the computer tracks and measures them, produces this graph:

Jurassic-Park1.jpg
Would you mind explaining how this is a hint? I've not read the book in many years and I'm not getting the meaning.
 

Doctor_Thomas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,652
Does he even care about his grandkids?
Not like in the film. I wouldn't say he doesn't care, but his priority in the film switches to bringing the grandkids back safely, his priority in the book is getting the Park back up and running and ignoring the set backs. There's a hint of this in the film when he's with Sattler in the vistor's centre talking about control, but that's his focus in the book.
 
Oct 27, 2017
552
Omaha
Would you mind explaining how this is a hint? I've not read the book in many years and I'm not getting the meaning.
To my recollection, they tracked animals by height. The graph says there are Y animals of X height, from which they'd deduce 20 velociraptors at 33 and 34 cm, for instance. I think they didn't realize animals were breeding because some of the smaller ones that had escaped were in the same height as some of the broodlings. Basically, a really shitty tracking system.
 

Prison_mike

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,433
Would you mind explaining how this is a hint? I've not read the book in many years and I'm not getting the meaning.

So thats the size of Compys graph

That is when Malcolm is explaining that there are no "bumps" in that graph to show more introductions of Compys. Its a natural curve, implying there has been breeding taking place on the island, unbeknownst to anyone yet
 

Leafshield

Member
Nov 22, 2019
2,934
The cage on rails in which they put the raptors in the pen in the first few minutes is also ridiculously unsecure. It doesn't lock into a place to prevent it being pushed back, also the gate has to be opened by hand rather than opened electronically. All of which contributed to the employee being killed.
I still think Grant hit on it when he asked 'why velociraptors', when they are so stealthy they are gonna be a terrible exhibit. I mean, deadly is exciting, that's why they've got a t-Rex, but I just imagine all the tourists looking at the raptor pen and the guide going 'they are definitely in there, honest!'.
 

steejee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,613
The book had some similarly good hints.

Like relatively early on Malcolm is asking about how they keep track of the dinosaurs and Arnold is bragging about all the different kinds of ways the computer tracks and measures them, produces this graph:

Jurassic-Park1.jpg

I find it mostly strange at how PERFECT the distribution is. Like creepily so. If I saw that result for any sort of natural life exhibit I'd go out and do a hand check cause SOMETHING was up.

Also this thread makes me want to go back and rewatch the original trilogy. Sure they get much dumber very quickly but even 3 had plenty of enjoyable bits.
 

lorddarkflare

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,258
Making them all-female was probably the stupidest thing they did. These are prehistoric creatures, you don't completely understand how they work. Why would you exclusively create ones with functioning baby-makers?

At least with the males they quite literally don't have the organs.
 

NookSports

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,211
Its a natural curve, implying there has been breeding taking place on the island, unbeknownst to anyone yet
This is the key. A curve that shape is, statistically, how any measurement of a population tends to end up. It's called a Normal Distribution. In this case, it's too eerily normal for a population that is supposedly maintained artificially
 

underFlorence

Member
May 19, 2019
1,628
Germany
I find it mostly strange at how PERFECT the distribution is. Like creepily so. If I saw that result for any sort of natural life exhibit I'd go out and do a hand check cause SOMETHING was up.

Also this thread makes me want to go back and rewatch the original trilogy. Sure they get much dumber very quickly but even 3 had plenty of enjoyable bits.
Yeah, if I saw that graph I'd think someone didn't do their job and just slapped a normal distribution onto the data, lol. I thought that was the point, to show that they weren't actually tracking height, just making up some data that looks good.
 

inner-G

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
14,473
PNW
I liked how in the book, the chapter break pages have a building fractal curve paired with Dr. Malcom's quotes about chaos theory. If you've never read the book you should, it's even better than the movie.

dragon-curve-fractal-n3js5.png


fullpageqrkgr.jpg


1jioiy8kjxp41ucjxc.jpg
 

onyx

Member
Dec 25, 2017
2,528
The whole park was less safe than a zoo. It was pretty much a Dinosaur safari on rails with big electric fences to hold back animals (monsters) human had no experience with.


To keep the dinosaurs from breeding they are all made female, but when Grant is given two female seat belts, he wraps them around him "Life finds a way."

The frog DNA was a big hint too, for me anyway. Only because I watched/read something about some frog species changing sex shortly before seeing the movie.

Having T-rex, Raptors, and other predators was the biggest "it's about to do down" clue of the movie though.
 

Kyou

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,952
Hammond talked about how "he spared no expense." But yet Nedry betrays him because of his low pay. (Nowadays people might be on Nedry's side more. From what I understand, in the book, Hammond is a lot less sympathetic)
Watched it recently with my dad after learning he'd never seen it and found myself during that scene going "Yeah, fuck Hammond."

Nedry was doing the work of an entire team for peanuts, and without him there the park totally collapsed

He made an attempt to leave some of the security active (like the raptors) so his only real sin was the cages that did go down
 

Tavernade

Tavernade
Moderator
Sep 18, 2018
8,630
I still think Grant hit on it when he asked 'why velociraptors', when they are so stealthy they are gonna be a terrible exhibit. I mean, deadly is exciting, that's why they've got a t-Rex, but I just imagine all the tourists looking at the raptor pen and the guide going 'they are definitely in there, honest!'.

That is fairly realistic to real zoos (for better or worse). They love big cats but those animals basically need an entire exhibit built around forcing them to be out in the open otherwise no one would ever see them.
 

Rookhelm

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,691
Making them all-female was probably the stupidest thing they did. These are prehistoric creatures, you don't completely understand how they work. Why would you exclusively create ones with functioning baby-makers?

At least with the males they quite literally don't have the organs.


I'm no biologist, but in the movie, they go on to explain that animals are inherently female, and it's the introduction of the Y chromosome that makes them male. Implying, I suppose, it was easier (and maybe more consistent) to keep them all female
 

JahIthBer

Member
Jan 27, 2018
10,382
Obviously with JP falling apart the point was "don't play god" but the Jurassic Park we saw was just a alpha test to prove to investors that the idea was feasible, the final form of it would have had much better security and Nedry wouldn't have been able to shut it down. If Nedry just stuck around he probably would have got a comfy senior position when the Park went big and made bank, but he was thinking of short term gains, which is a theme in JP i suppose.
 

Calamari41

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,098
Regarding Nedry, Hammond definitely screwed him.

"And partly it was insurance for the future. Nedry was annoyed with the Jurassic Park project; late in the schedule, InGen had demanded extensive modifications to the system but hadn't been willing to pay for them, arguing they should be included under the original contract. Lawsuits were threatened; letters were written to Nedry's other clients, implying that Nedry was unreliable. It was blackmail, and in the end Nedry had been forced to eat his overages on Jurassic Park and to make the changes that Hammond wanted. But later, when he was approached by Lewis Dodgson at Biosyn, Nedry was ready to listen. And able to say that he could indeed get past Jurassic Park security. He could get into any room, any system, anywhere in the park. Because he had programmed it that way. Just in case."

To my recollection, they tracked animals by height. The graph says there are Y animals of X height, from which they'd deduce 20 velociraptors at 33 and 34 cm, for instance. I think they didn't realize animals were breeding because some of the smaller ones that had escaped were in the same height as some of the broodlings. Basically, a really shitty tracking system.

The big reveal in the book of how they didn't realize there was breeding going on was the way the motion sensors counted the animals. They were set up to tally whether or not there were X number of animals, say 100. They did it this way because they wanted to know if and when any were dying. They didn't program it to alert anyone or even count if there were animals ABOVE 100. So the system would tally to 100, say "all is well, the dinos are all here" and stop counting. It didn't know or care that there were 200.

It's a great scene, when they start changing the parameter and it says "100 animals. 110 animals. 130 animals" etc

Honestly the book is so good, I need to re-read it asap
 
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xxracerxx

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
31,222
Honestly anyone who is a fan of the movie really needs to read the book. It's awesome and has way more raptors and rocket launchers.
 

Leafshield

Member
Nov 22, 2019
2,934
That is fairly realistic to real zoos (for better or worse). They love big cats but those animals basically need an entire exhibit built around forcing them to be out in the open otherwise no one would ever see them.
That makes sense. I went to a big cat sanctuary here once (they look after cats rescued from circuses and private owners in Europe). The staff were saying that the tiger has a fun 'game' of liking to hang out where an approaching zookeeper can see them, but then as the keeper heads to the slot where the put the meat in, the tiger slips into the long grass and covers ground really quickly in order to ambush the keeper. They said it was really interesting how, for all the enrichment they provide, big inflatable balls in pools of water, big roped frames to wrestle with etc, you can tell when they drop into serious hunting mode as they almost just go invisible immediately.

I haven't read the book in at least 20 years, I should do that.
 

steejee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,613
The whole park was less safe than a zoo. It was pretty much a Dinosaur safari on rails with big electric fences to hold back animals (monsters) human had no experience with.
He made an attempt to leave some of the security active (like the raptors) so his only real sin was the cages that did go down

Combining these two, one thing that annoyed me even at a young age watching this and enjoying dinosaurs on the rampage was just how poorly designed the whole park had to be for him turning off some of the power to result in all the death and chaos. In the end dinosaurs are just animals, with animal needs. You shouldn't even need an electric fence to contain them. We've been keeping large and dangerous in captivity for centuries (admittedly no predators as big as a T-Rex or some of the other herbivores) and people getting killed usually comes down to human stupidity rather than containment failure.

Of course in the end it's a movie, so those massive fences needed to be made of balsa wood and the island cleared of all but a few people to have an excuse for the thrill ride, but I think the real life Jurassic Park would probably have a pretty easy time having a clean safety record.
 

Brandino

Banned
Jan 9, 2018
2,098
Making them all-female was probably the stupidest thing they did. These are prehistoric creatures, you don't completely understand how they work. Why would you exclusively create ones with functioning baby-makers?

At least with the males they quite literally don't have the organs.
Couldn't they have spade the dinos as well after learning where the reproductive organs are?
 

ManNR

Member
Feb 13, 2019
2,963
In the real world the main cause of death at Jurassic Park would be due to idiots climbing into the exhibits to feed animals cheetos.
 

Birdie

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
26,289
The book is fun but...goddamn are the child characters dialed up to like eleven in it in terms of being annoying.

Like the premise and world building is fun but the dialouge in the book is like distractingly juvenile in a weird way.
 

jman2050

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,802
Seriously, the entire Park running was dependent on ONE guy?

It's more overt in the book, but one of the other major themes that's explored in the story is the onset of industrial automation and what that means for our society. To correct your post, the entire park running was supposed to be dependent on no one, as its entire design philosophy was to be a completely self-sufficient closed system that would operate entirely by computer. Which just plays into the larger themes of trying to control nature and all the ways such an endeavor can fail.