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defaltoption

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
11,483
Austin
Yeah sounds like Sony was in a hurry with this decision somehow.
Sucks for the developers really.
If they had never sent out devkits then I totally get your perspective and others saying its the devs fault but the fact that Sony was like sure here come develop for the platform that's what pisses me off and makes it Sony's fault for not warning them. They could've said here's the devkit but were shutting down the store on this date but according to multiple devs nobody knew.
 

TheJackdog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,644
"but they didnt give devs any warning!"

Idk I feel like NOT MAKING THE VITA is a pretty good warning
 

TheJackdog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,644
Not to mention the fact that you can't do physical Vita releases anymore. Seriously, I get that it sounds harsh, but banking on the Vita as a source of income for the past few years just seems like a really, REALLY irresponsible move. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs a reality check.

Agreed, its a horribly irresponsibly business decision
 

Kemono

▲ Legend ▲
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,669
Sounds like a well thought out decision by Jim "why would anybody play this" Ryan.

I'm quite sure the developers didn't know that the store would close until they saw the news about it like everybody else.

God damn sony. It's as good as dead already. No need to stomp it into the ground like this...
 

Kyry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
836
Ahhhh, love the smell of some good victim blaming in the morning.

This isn't victim blaming, because no wrong has been inflicted on them. People are allowed to make risky investments because they potentially can have a large pay off.

If the store wasn't shutting down, these games would be big fish in the small pond that is new Vita releases. The other side of that gamble is that underperforming markets tend not to be solvent all the more so with a single point of failure.
 
Sep 11, 2020
702
To be bold and Truth, still investing in games for the PS Vita, which was in its death bed months after the PS4 release, wasn't a wise move.

If you were a small developer, without much of a name in the industry, releasing your game on a system that has a small but really active userbase that likes the type of games you do could be a good idea. There is also less competition than on the Switch, so it's easier to get the attention of that audience than on a mainstream platform.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,689
I can't believe people in here are actually defending Sony for this. The fact that they gave virtually no notice to devs is pathetic
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,351
New Vita collectors editions instantly sell out. I imagine something like Scourgebringer (out end of next month) will make it's money back through limited runs of physical. That's why people keep making Vita games. It's a hardcore audience who love a limited edition. They're the FLAC/deluxe boxart vinyl lovers of the gaming crowd.

So hopefully the digital store shutting won't affect the devs banking on those as hard as it might others.
 

Garrison

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,892
they discontinued the console two years ago. That's plenty of notice that they will no longer be supporting the console.
Yeah ummm.. you know there is no precedent for anything like that in all products and services thou right? Even on gaming the 360 stopped being made in 2016... I can still buy games for it.

Very sad day people coming up to bat for Multi billion dollar corporations.....

But my goodness lets make sure we all send Sony our thoughts and prayers guys... it's not easy you know.. hard times come with record profits.
 

TheJackdog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,644
Yeah ummm.. you know there is no precedent for anything like that in all products and services thou right? Even on gaming the 360 stopped being made in 2016... I can still buy games for it.

Very sad day people coming up to bat for Multi billion dollar corporations.....

But my goodness lets make sure we all send Sony our thoughts and prayers guys... it's not easy you know.. hard times come with record profits.

No one is coming up to bat for Sony.

But no one is coming up to bat for developers who made, honestly, really shitty business decisions either.
 

LavaBadger

Member
Nov 14, 2017
4,986
This would've been a fair point if Sony weren't still selling PS Vita dev kits as late as months ago.
It's likewise a fair point for developers to conclude that their audience was only getting smaller as time went on, and perhaps this was not the right platform to be developing for.

But that said, yes, Sony should have stopped sending dev kits or something. It sends a mixed message to devs who somehow did conclude it was a sensible development platform.
 

dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,572
I am more surprised that Tim Sweeney said nothing. Who am I kidding that was obvious.

And before anyone says off topic ot baiting it is not. Tim is one who is pushing for 3rd party stores and criticizes Apple, Google and Valve whenever he can, while staying silent on much worse things like Sony closing stores.
 

aceldama

Member
Jun 8, 2019
518
Not to mention the fact that you can't do physical Vita releases anymore. Seriously, I get that it sounds harsh, but banking on the Vita as a source of income for the past few years just seems like a really, REALLY irresponsible move. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs a reality check.
The indie devs know exactly how much money they make from their Vita releases month on month. You don't. Take a reality check that your uninformed opinions aren't facts and don't override the views of people who know the issue better than you.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,088
But they were still sending dev kits. If they plan on shutting down the store, why still send it to devs? Why would anyone develop a game to Vita if people couldn't buy it? What's the point in sending them?

Well this seem more the case of the people who send out the devs kits had no idea this would happen .
Which sucks but often the case as the higher ups is who decide stuff like the store closing .
 

Reckheim

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,369
Yeah ummm.. you know there is no precedent for anything like that in all products and services thou right? Even on gaming the 360 stopped being made in 2016... I can still buy games for it.

Very sad day people coming up to bat for Multi billion dollar corporations.....

But my goodness lets make sure we all send Sony our thoughts and prayers guys... it's not easy you know.. hard times come with record profits.
no one is coming to bat for Sony, just commenting on the lack of common sense from the devs.
 

SolidSnakeUS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,583
I can't believe people in here are actually defending Sony for this. The fact that they gave virtually no notice to devs is pathetic

The system has been fully discontinued for 2 years now and it's Sony's fault, not the devs, for choosing the Vita as their platform after the fact? I get that Sony sold dev kits months ago, but that was up to the developers to spend that money to on those kits to develop on a basically dead platform (support from Sony and the overall size of the userbase).

Not saying it doesn't suck what Sony is doing with the storefronts, but to use that to excuse very poor business decisions on the devs when it comes to releasing a game on the Vita is pretty crap. If you were a smarter investor, you'd spend the money on a Switch dev kit or work on PC to get it out, not make or break your success on the Vita.

There are lower end version games that do come out newer, something like Pier Solar got a Genesis release, but they also had a lot of financial backing from Kickstarter AND had it on newer systems to help make up for the time and money to make it on something like the Genesis.
 

WhtR88t

Member
May 14, 2018
4,579
User Banned (3 Days) - Platform Warring over multiple posts
I'm curious what the story will be when Nintendo inevitably shuts down the Switch store?
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,103
Bit of a stray thought: cross buy will still be active after the Store closure. Developers who get a game onto the Store on time might be able to work around the closure by doing some kind of cross buy package on PS4. I'm not sure what kind of restrictions exist for that. Maybe it's possible to release a PS4 theme or avatar for the price of the Vita game and make it cross buy with the Vita game so that people can make the purchase on PS4 and get the Vita game anyway.
 

SolidSnakeUS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,583
Some of the takes in here are very "Blame the victims" in here and I don't like it.

If you made a dev company right now and decided to get a Vita dev kit on the cheap from Sony, would you think it would be a financially responsible decision to sell the game on the Vita, regardless if the storefront was going away or not? Or would you rather go with something that is still supported and way more popular like the Switch or even PC?

Also, Sony didn't force these devs to buy their dev kits.
 

Goomy

Banned
Aug 31, 2019
88
Ahhhh, love the smell of some good victim blaming in the morning.

Yup. Fuck supporting devs who make games for older hardware that has a small but dedicated fanbase and giving the system some good sunset years, instead of developing for shiny new toys no-one can get or Switch/Steam where your game gets buried amongst the crowd, am I right?

Even the article says it:
Elsewhere, people are losing money. Pablo Checa, a developer from Spain, released his first commercial game in September 2020 for PS Vita, Switch, Xbox One, and PS4. While the game - a shmup called Task Force Kampas - will still be purchasable on other platforms, Checa estimates that the loss of Vita will wipe out between 20-40% of projected sales profits. The studio's next game, El Gancho, was also planned for Vita, but the developer can't make the deadline and will have to cancel. Others are crunching to beat it.

20 to 40 percent of sales for a platform that is a fraction of the size of the others? That's is nothing to sneeze at. I'm definitely feeling for these devs.
 

nihilence

nøthing but silence
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
15,903
From 'quake area to big OH.
MVG raised this point in last video. Everyone has to solve games out the door to have time to sell anything on that market.

Will ability to patch be down? Can they ship a shell and push content later?
 

aceldama

Member
Jun 8, 2019
518
For a device it is impossible to distribute for without the support of the company that discontinued the production of said device?
Yeah, it's bad.
This is benefit of hindsight on steroids. Every games console and every PC distribution platform could hypothetically cease getting supported by the platform holder tomorrow. The writing is on the wall for the PS4 - gaze into your crystal ball and tell us which year devs should preemptively stop supporting the platform?
 

BassForever

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,915
CT
I do agree they should have given devs, especially ones who had received new/updated kits in the past, year a heads up before making the announcement public. That's Sony's only mistake here imo. Sony has made it clear "vita is dead and we buried it" for years now, not pivoting to switch/pc/ps4 in 2019 or 2020 is on the developers in question.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,742
Aren't dev kits very expensive? Why would Sony be selling them if they knew they were going to close the store?
 

SolidSnakeUS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,583
Yup. Fuck supporting devs who make games for older hardware that has a small but dedicated fanbase and giving the system some good sunset years, instead of developing for shiny new toys no-one can get or Switch/Steam where your game gets buried amongst the crowd, am I right?

Even the article says it:


20 to 40 percent of sales for a platform that is a fraction of the size of the others? That's is nothing to sneeze at. I'm definitely feeling for these devs.

If you're hedging your company on making a successful game on the Vita in 2021, you're not going to have a company for much longer.

Not saying the fanbase isn't there, but I don't see how it makes any financial sense.
 

crimsonECHIDNA

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,341
Florida
Yeah, that was really shitty on Sony's part not to send any heads up to developers. Even if it was discontinued hardware, if they knew devs were still releasing content on it, it's only common courtesy.
 

MrWindUpBird

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,686
This was my first thought.

What is the expected ROI on releasing a vita game in 2021?
I'm sure out of the 20 people who still buy games, 5 of those people would have bought this one.

It sucks for the devs to be left high and dry like that, but you do have to question the business sense of releasing a game on the Vita in 2021 when the Switch is right there and has seen dozens upon dozens of successful indie games come out of the eShop.
 

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,318
I spent months getting Cosmic Star Heroine optimized enough that it would run on the Vita. Even though we're not making much money off of that version these days and the game is also Cross-buy with the PS4 so you can still get it that way, it's still very disappointing that they're shutting the store down.

I know it's not realistic, but I always had this vague idea of myself after I was retired making Vita games as a hobby like people make NES games now. Just for fun and to see how far I could push the hardware.
 

Kyry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
836
Some of the takes in here are very "Blame the victims" in here and I don't like it.

You aren't a victim simply because your investment went poorly.

I get that we all love video games and think of them fondly, but that doesn't mean that the choice to develop in a certain ecosystem and sell on the certain market is any less of an economic one.

Somehow I doubt anyone would call them victims if the money they put into an ETF went red. Why is this different?
 

SolidSnakeUS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,583
I'm sure out of the 20 people who still buy games, 5 of those people would have bought this one.

It sucks for the devs to be left high and dry like that, but you do have to question the business sense of releasing a game on the Vita in 2021 when the Switch is right there and has seen dozens upon dozens of successful indie games come out of the eShop.

Hell, even getting curated by Epic to sell only on the EGS would be better financially for a dev than going with a Vita in 2021.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
The scummiest part is the fact Sony was still selling dev kits for a discontinued system, although I guess the inherent risk should've been known.
 

Corralx

Member
Aug 23, 2018
1,176
London, UK
This is benefit of hindsight on steroids. Every games console and every PC distribution platform could hypothetically cease getting supported by the platform holder tomorrow. The writing is on the wall for the PS4 - gaze into your crystal ball and tell us which year devs should preemptively stop supporting the platform?

So you're saying that PS4 or PS5 or Steam even are as likely as Vita to be discontinued and have their store shut down today?
Part of having a business is being able to understand the market and make educated guesses.
Developing for a dead platform comes with risks.
 

Deleted member 23046

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,876

NewDust

Visited by Knack
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,586
New Vita collectors editions instantly sell out. I imagine something like Scourgebringer (out end of next month) will make it's money back through limited runs of physical. That's why people keep making Vita games. It's a hardcore audience who love a limited edition. They're the FLAC/deluxe boxart vinyl lovers of the gaming crowd.

So hopefully the digital store shutting won't affect the devs banking on those as hard as it might others.
It's fucked up because Scourgebringer could have been released as crossbuy, making it still purchasable on PSN, but apparently Sony said no.

 

Garrison

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,892
But no one is coming up to bat for developers who made, honestly, really shitty business decisions either.
Each dev handles their business however they see fit and either projects what sort of loss or gain they will have for each of their projects. Vita had a small trusty community of players who would grab new games instantly when new games would drop which in turn gave a good chance to small devs who either really wanted to release games there because they are players themselves or didn't want their game to be drowned out in the sea of bigger platforms like Switch or Android.

Others could of easily decided that this project was for them easily based of just breaking even just on account of loving the platform which is also admirable. Not every project is designed or meant for sky high profits.

Also the fact that the store is on an old service doesn't mean the nuclear option is the only one, this was clearly a massive numbers based move in which the consideration of putting gamers and devs in the forefront was met with a 'screw em" response. Down to the no warnings and small limited time for people to buy any games they can.