Yes. There's a difference between "famous" and "historically important". Titanic is the former only. Well, infamous, actually, I suppose.
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The wreck of the Titanic doesn't have much time left, should we recover what we can?
- Thread starter Marcus Aurelius
- Start date
Yes. There's a difference between "famous" and "historically important". Titanic is the former only. Well, infamous, actually, I suppose.
As someone who finds the Titanic fascinating....it's time to let the dead rest in peace.
There is absolutely nothing down there that's all that significant. If you wanna send a drone down to take some more photos/footage or whatever, sure, maybe. But as far as bringing relics and artifacts up, no.
There is absolutely nothing down there that's all that significant. If you wanna send a drone down to take some more photos/footage or whatever, sure, maybe. But as far as bringing relics and artifacts up, no.
There is a piece of it on display - "The Big Piece". I saw it in Vegas but I'm not sure if it's moved since.
It's huge, and incredible to look at, but is a relatively tiny piece of the ship and was an absolute pain in the arse to bring to the surface and move. The sheer scale of bringing back anything more than that is almost unfathomable. I think some people have visions of bringing back the entire front of the ship or something and that seems absolutely ludicrous.
It's huge, and incredible to look at, but is a relatively tiny piece of the ship and was an absolute pain in the arse to bring to the surface and move. The sheer scale of bringing back anything more than that is almost unfathomable. I think some people have visions of bringing back the entire front of the ship or something and that seems absolutely ludicrous.
Marketing (it being "unsinkable" and then sinking on its maiden voyage) and how it was romanticized.
This is my mindset. It's cool if smaller items of historical relevance are retrieved from the wreck, but leave the rest of the ship down there.
i say we bring it up
what're the ghosts of the people who died gonna do, haunt us?
let it rest where it is lol
what're the ghosts of the people who died gonna do, haunt us?
let it rest where it is lol
I like big elaborate projects where people from all different fields get to together and collaborate, then all cheer at the end upon successful completion. Recovering it sounds like it'd be one of those so yeah, that'd be cool to see.
As someone who's fascinated by it, all I care about is sending some drones inside with really good 3D scanners. I wanna explore it in full 3D, as much of it is left. If they get a full scan they can let it stay there.
I'm also honestly not that perturbed by the idea of bringing back parts of it. I understand the issue of disturbing a final resting place, but if there's stuff there that does not exist anywhere else in the historical record I think it should be saved (I would imagine it's sister ship had a lot, so what is unique would be minimal).
I'm also honestly not that perturbed by the idea of bringing back parts of it. I understand the issue of disturbing a final resting place, but if there's stuff there that does not exist anywhere else in the historical record I think it should be saved (I would imagine it's sister ship had a lot, so what is unique would be minimal).
I vote for "who gives a shit". It's a boat that sank over a hundred years ago. We got the Dicaprio movie out of it and some cool footage of the wreckage. That's enough. What is there really to be gained or even learned from doing this?
Unless we absolutely needed the steel or some shit I think it should be left alone. I'm not opposed to disturbing graves, I think if the living needed the land or materials so be it, the needs of the living outweigh the needs of the dead, but, this is more of a historical fascination and not even really the kind that fits in gaps in human knowledge. You find a grave site of an unknown people and there's very real historical value in studying that site but the Titanic, we know how those people lived, there's little general knowledge to be gained from investigating it further.
I watched a doc on the latest dives and findings just a month or two ago and this doesn't even seem to be true.
The wreck deterioration talk is at 1:03:10. "The front of the bow has evolved very little. Deterioration continues, but it has not accelerated, and the experts agree unanimously that the wreck will not disappear in the coming decades. It'll be diminishing in size and volume but even in 500 years we will see something".
The wreck deterioration talk is at 1:03:10. "The front of the bow has evolved very little. Deterioration continues, but it has not accelerated, and the experts agree unanimously that the wreck will not disappear in the coming decades. It'll be diminishing in size and volume but even in 500 years we will see something".
In addition to being a mass grave site, the idea of bringing up such a wreck seems incredibly pointless due to how eroded it is and how little would survive it rising from the sea floor.
I think we just need to accept that not everything of historical significance can be "saved" or "preserved".
I think we just need to accept that not everything of historical significance can be "saved" or "preserved".
There's no point. It would be monumentally difficult and expensive to extract, and would basically disintegrate in the process.
I'm pretty sure this has been suggested and considered a number of times over the decades and was never viable then, even less viable now.
I'm pretty sure this has been suggested and considered a number of times over the decades and was never viable then, even less viable now.
It's also kind of weird to me. It isn't a mystery in any way what happened, they aren't a people unknown to historians, at the core it's just a tragic accident site. It's only really that it's a wreck underwater that really sets it apart, if it were on land and it were a crashed airliner's site we were talking about it'd already have been cleared, people wouldn't be talking about preserving it so some fools can hike out to the site and take some pictures every couple of years to fuel their sense of adventure.
I'm pretty sure trying to salvage it to the surface would destroy it more and faster than leaving it be
I don't think there is anything of particular interest in the wreck Titanic, outside of the event that happened to it. It's not like it's ancient history. We know about shipbuilding and lives of the people who lived in that era, and got access to preserved objects of the time already. I doubt the wreck of Titanic could teach us anything of significance about the people lost within or technological history of ships we don't know already.
Scan it and let it go. There's enough documentaries about it, no need to keep any physical aspect of it
Don't really care about it being a grave, but also don't see the point in trying to recover it. The only reason I could see is for its low background steel, but there's probably still much easier sources of that.
I'm an enthusiast about this ship, so 100% yes. The argument that its grave robbing is frankly ridiculous. That logic only seems to get applied to somewhat recent maritime wrecks for some reason. It also seems to hand wave the same concerns for every exhibit on things like every battlefield ever in history, Pompeii, ancient Egypt (which is in many cases is very arguable for being actual grave robbing), etc.
Bring up as much as we can, but treat it with respect and don't seriously damaging the structural integrity of what is already there. I would say that if anything gets moved, it should be 3D scanned and well photographed first. There are a lot of interior sections that, on last observation, were remarkably well preserved, and just letting that all rot and get caved in on would be a tremendous shame. Of course, if you just want a whole Olympic class ship, there's one near Greece that could be brought up in one piece, but it was stripped of its fancy interiors before it sank.
A big part of my thing about this is that there's not much left from this era of shipbuilding and travel. On top of that Titanic is the most famous and arguably the most important due to the number of safety reforms that were made after the sinking.
And for what it's worth Canada really should just wholly raise the Erebus and Terror wrecks, and build a museum around them, like the Vasa.
Bring up as much as we can, but treat it with respect and don't seriously damaging the structural integrity of what is already there. I would say that if anything gets moved, it should be 3D scanned and well photographed first. There are a lot of interior sections that, on last observation, were remarkably well preserved, and just letting that all rot and get caved in on would be a tremendous shame. Of course, if you just want a whole Olympic class ship, there's one near Greece that could be brought up in one piece, but it was stripped of its fancy interiors before it sank.
A big part of my thing about this is that there's not much left from this era of shipbuilding and travel. On top of that Titanic is the most famous and arguably the most important due to the number of safety reforms that were made after the sinking.
And for what it's worth Canada really should just wholly raise the Erebus and Terror wrecks, and build a museum around them, like the Vasa.
What the hell are you talking about? It's the most deadly peacetime open ocean ship loss to this day, a good lesson about the hubris of man, and directly responsible for the creation of SOLAS.
The salvage operation of such a ship especially to raise it from these depths is extremely complex and very expensive. It might not even be possible. Wasn't there models and studies done that proved it would not be possible to do? You wouldn't be able to raise much intact at all.
Raising it back to the pressures at or above sea level will do a lot of harm, if it would even get that far. If you lift it from the sea bed at this point it would likely dissolve into literally rust particles
Whatever could be retrieved would not be the ship itself, it would be souveineirs, there's no way you can raise the stern or bow for example. It is long gone for that.
The recently discovered Shackleton's Endurance this year for me is a much more important ship than the Titanic especially considering its amazing preservation, but it won't be salvaged
Raising it back to the pressures at or above sea level will do a lot of harm, if it would even get that far. If you lift it from the sea bed at this point it would likely dissolve into literally rust particles
Whatever could be retrieved would not be the ship itself, it would be souveineirs, there's no way you can raise the stern or bow for example. It is long gone for that.
The recently discovered Shackleton's Endurance this year for me is a much more important ship than the Titanic especially considering its amazing preservation, but it won't be salvaged
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I don't think the fact that it was large gives it any more historical value than any other boat/plane/car that crashed. It was a tragedy. 110 years ago.
It's still mentioned in school not because it's an important event, but because it's an important lesson in hubris and an easy way to segue into class inequality.
It's still mentioned in school not because it's an important event, but because it's an important lesson in hubris and an easy way to segue into class inequality.
You're not gonna be able to recover the hull/ship itself in any meaningful way, it'll tear itself apart with the force needed to lift any significant chunk of it and make any real recovery 100% impractical. It'd be like trying to recover a wet submerged clump of tissue paper. As mentioned, the ship itself and the sinking event have now all been well explored and documented. Unless there's a specific artifact to be recovered I don't see the point.
It's pretty weird that there hasn't been a Titanic themed cruise ship. Global warming took care of all the icebergs, the ship should have free rein of the seas.
At most, maybe collect some large artifacts that haven't been collected yet and will likely destroy portions of the ship with their removal, but there's no chance of salvaging anything of significant size in a single piece.
Should probably just leave it alone until we have the capability of building a Titanic recreation that's also a hotel on the bottom of the sea.
For anyone that wants to tour it you should play this absolute 90's classic*
*Don't
Haha! Oh man, I loved that game as a kid! I practically had the layout of the ship and success routes mapped out!
...no, but seriously. Don't.
The sinking has historical importance and affected ocean going vessels for all time. The actual rusted out wreck, not so much. The ship itself isn't the historically important part.
Out of all the possible reasons to not do it, Grave Robbing is at the very bottom of the reasons not to do it. Its basically a non-reason given archaeology in general is literally the study of graverobbing.
Rather, a better reason not to do it is its just a waste of money. It was a tragedy, yes. But we've preserved that tragedy in multitudes of ways that dont involve the actual busted ship that would likely disintegrate if you actually tried to retrieve it.
Rather, a better reason not to do it is its just a waste of money. It was a tragedy, yes. But we've preserved that tragedy in multitudes of ways that dont involve the actual busted ship that would likely disintegrate if you actually tried to retrieve it.