The Verge - xCloud and Stadia "are fundamentally different platforms with different aims and in very disparate levels of readiness"

[Deleted member 426]

I don't get what the market for Stadia is. People that want to play Doom Eternal but don't have the local hardware to do so? I don't think that the market is big.

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Not for this gen, but when people are looking at next gen and their choice is between a $500 console, or a $100 controller and dongle, then you can see why it starts to look appealing.

Of course that also assumes people's internet is up to scratch. But still, even if you personally don't want it, you can probably see who it could be for.

 

[Primal Sage]

In what year do we get Nintendo streaming video games?

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2018. Japan only but you could buy a streaming-only version of Resident Evil 7 for Switch. PS4-level graphics streamed to a handheld.

Not exactly a big rollout but they clearly have the tech to do it if they want. I'm pretty sure they don't though.

 

[BolognaOni]

No it shouldn't. This has been discussed in multiple threads. Google has never killed a service where people have invested money to own content. The vast majority of the "killed by Google" stuff were products that were either folded into something else, designed from the outset to be testing platforms for features that got integrated later on into other products, or were really tiny projects that almost no one used.

Please elaborate.

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I'd agree that the Google graveyard is pretty overblown, but Nest is a pretty notable exception in my mind.

The smart-home in general has always been something of a mess in terms of having way too many standards, but the Nest devices were pretty good at playing with others, and did so through a "Works with Nest" API. Google basically killed that functionality and is rolling it into Google Assistant. More complete coverage from Ars or Verge. They've backed off a little from the initial announcement, and aren't going to break functionality outright, but it's going to be limited.

To be clear, I don't necessarily expect anyone buying games on Stadia is going to lose them completely. But if Google can't effectively monetize the service it will morph into something that they can (which will involve more data collection and advertising).

 

[Fredrik]

They may be able to get it running, but their publishing/licensing agreements probably don't allow them to just make all games available on PC like that. So, it would probably have to be a case by case basis, just like Xbox 360 BC has been.

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I can't see the problem from the publishers perspective, the games are still streamed, it's not like any files would be released to the users to mess with, the streamed game would just run better. Won't it be just like if MS would swap out the XB1 hardware to Scarlett in the future? Which I certainly hope won't place BC back on the start position again :/

 

[Fredrik]

Not for this gen, but when people are looking at next gen and their choice is between a $500 console, or a $100 controller and dongle, then you can see why it starts to look appealing.

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Exactly. I'm constantly in situations where I'm talking about games with friends and coworkers and get the question what is needed to run that, with the conclusion that they can't play the games.
It would be a huge difference if I could say:
"- Just buy it for Stadia, you don't need any hardware, it's free if you're okay with 1080p."

In the future the biggest problem will be that you need to use several streaming services to get pass the exclusivity situation. It's annoying but still a big improvement compared to buying a whole new console from MS, Sony and Nintendo.

 

[Border]

I think Microsoft is in a slightly better position than Google, just because they can offer streaming to anyone that buys any Xbox game......with no real work or extra effort from the developer. Developers will have to create custom Linux versions of their games for Stadia, and gamers are going to be VERY skeptical about buying games that are streaming-only. In the Xbox ecosystem, you can download or stream anything so there's really no worry about losing access to your library when your internet connection is slow or spotty. Stadia games are completely subject to the quality of your internet connection.

I have no trouble believing that Microsoft and Xbox will still be running services in 5 years. I am skeptical that Google will stick with Stadia if it has a slow adoption rate.

That said, I think the FREE tier of Stadia is a major advantage for Google. If they can offer a decent library of free games to play, then they have a good edge to compete with Microsoft.

 

[kambaybolongo]

Not for this gen, but when people are looking at next gen and their choice is between a $500 console, or a $100 controller and dongle, then you can see why it starts to look appealing.

Of course that also assumes people's internet is up to scratch. But still, even if you personally don't want it, you can probably see who it could be for.

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I don't think console players mind buying consoles. If anything it seems like there is always an incredible amount of hype for them.

 

[Panic Freak]

I wonder if it makes sense for them. Microsoft and Google have infrastructure already in place, Sony would likely have to work with with a partner, right?

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They are working with Microsoft.

 

[DestroyerOfWorlds]

I can't see the problem from the publishers perspective, the games are still streamed, it's not like any files would be released to the users to mess with, the streamed game would just run better. Won't it be just like if MS would swap out the XB1 hardware to Scarlett in the future? Which I certainly hope won't place BC back on the start position again :/

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We were talking about MS' emulators running on PC to run Xbox and 360 games directly on PC. That's not the same as streaming.

 

[Crayon]

Okay. We've just left the starting line with this streaming stuff. Anything can happen before everyone settles into their groove.

Sony and Nvidia have had good streaming for a minute, but been sort of low key. I think they're going to start going harder in the next couple years. Valve will have something sooner or later. Who knows who else. Can't predict anything really.

 

[Lump]

What I really want to see is comparisons in quality and response time between Stadia and Geforce Now. GN is so good that Stadia being even better would be an incredible feat, though GN would still be preferable since it actually uses the common digital PC libraries that users already have.

 

[Agent X]

One currently lets you stream a catalog of old games to your console, the other is promising to let you stream your digital library to a variety of different devices. These are vastly different services.

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Yes, one currently streams a catalog of games to your console (or PC). The other currently does not exist.

Both have the potential to eventually stream your digital library to a variety of devices at some point in the future, but neither are currently doing that.

I don't understand why some of these comparisons constantly portray Sony's services as though they're permanently stuck in the year 2014, while their competitors are given the benefit of changing and evolving. I have no problem with the assumption that Microsoft and Google will continue to improve the services that they will introduce in the future, but Sony has already demonstrated that they can improve their existing service.

 

[McScroggz]

I must admit I feel old or like a Luddite when I think about this. Like, the idea of playing AAA games on my phone sounds awful, and when people suggest they enjoy that (or the prospects of it) there is a genuine disconnect. I know this is only one aspect of these services, but is there really a demand to play AAA games on the sub-optimal devices or less than desirable situations? I don't get it honestly.

Then again I also worry how these service based solutions will affect game development. As a thought experiment of Bethesda started offering their games for, say, $100 a year (maybe more, maybe less). How do the number of people that previously bought their games in the tens of millions and invested hundreds of hours change the dynamic of their revenue streams, especially with post-game content like DLC. Would Bethesda still make these massive games?

Another thing that I've still never gotten an answer to is what kind off revenue and profit is Microsoft getting from GamePass? If they are putting so many games on the service, including other publisher's games (and this presumably paying for the rights) and frequently offering discounts for GP is this a service that is making money and will grow and make even more or is it a gamble that if they get enough subscribers they will start to make money. Especially considering Microsoft doesn't sell as many consoles and seemingly wants to transition away from hardware.

 

[samred]

Here's the takeaway we at Ars had after testing both.

xCloud delivered hair-trigger performance over WiFi with somewhat blocky 720p resolution. we were not allowed to run speedtest/dslreports diagnostics on the Samsung Galaxy S10 phones that we tested on. Instead of running on a web browser, xCloud ran within its own app, which I snuck a teensy peek at via Android screen-swiping gestures before an MS rep got wise and stopped me.

Stadia delivered hair-trigger performance and looked really, really good within Chrome on a Chromebook--1080p, none of the usual YouTube-style artifacts or color-gradient barfing you'd expect from normal streaming video--on a wired connection that we were not allowed to run speedtest/dslreports diagnostics on.

I'm honestly more impressed by the responsive, almost instant latency of xCloud's WiFi results, just because that feels more "impossible" to me. But both are a mix of "holy cow" and "wellllll let's see how that works at MY house." we certainly have questions about how either will scale to higher resolutions (particularly Stadia's 4K promises).

 

[TechnicPuppet]

Yes, one currently streams a catalog of games to your console (or PC). The other currently does not exist.

Both have the potential to eventually stream your digital library to a variety of devices at some point in the future, but neither are currently doing that.

I don't understand why some of these comparisons constantly portray Sony's services as though they're permanently stuck in the year 2014, while their competitors are given the benefit of changing and evolving. I have no problem with the assumption that Microsoft and Google will continue to improve the services that they will introduce in the future, but Sony has already demonstrated that they can improve their existing service.

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Sony made their service offering worse, available on less devices. What improvements have they made to cloud gaming? The library is still awful years later as well. That's why they get ignored in these conversations.

 

[bdbdbd]

I don't think console players mind buying consoles. If anything it seems like there is always an incredible amount of hype for them.

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Eh, I'm a "console player" because that's the current industry model that best balances convenience with game access, acceptable performance and overall value for me. I was at one time an "arcade junky" because, for a while, there really was no good substitute for pumping quarters into an arcade machine to experience the best version of the game. I'm all for trying out new models, as long as the games are there, the performance is satisfactory and the value is solid.

 

[Fredrik]

We were talking about MS' emulators running on PC to run Xbox and 360 games directly on PC. That's not the same as streaming.

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Okay I meant that they could make emulators on PC for the BC games exclusively for xCloud, so they could use PC hardware instead of Xbox One in xCloud.

To me it just seem shortsighted to use 7 year old 1.4 tf console hardware when launching a new game streaming platform. Especially when a new competitor pops up and use stackable 10.7tf boxes.

 

[DvdGzz]

Yeah, owning the console and being able to play games offline with the option to stream them is cool. Since we are getting Xcloud in October, Stadia is dead to me with no exclusives.

 

[Bigfellahull]

We are years away from a streaming first ecosystem IMO. I think MS have the right approach of allowing me to play my games on the go - with the primary way of playing still being via console or PC. At least for now.

Because it's coming! No getting away from the fact that streaming will be the future. There are significant hurdles to overcome, so I'm super interested to see how Stadia performs.

Could PS5 and Xbox One Two be our last physical consoles? Potentially.

 

[Fredrik]

Also, regarding latency, I thought this DF test for Assassin's Creed Odyssey was interesting...

And this was at 30fps, if Ubi get it up to 60fps on Stadia you'd actually see the latency drop lower on Stadia than on the current multiplat console king. That should put some latency concerns to rest.

 

[Tickling]

For me stadia has one absolutely killer game and feature. Football manager. You have one of the biggest games on steam which needs a fair bit of processing power and it can be played in a chrome window. Football manager is annualised so takes out the risk of losing it if stadia goes under. Can you see the potential of how many people will get back into football manager if you don't need a good pc to play and you can play the full functioned fm everywhere?

For me short term Xcloud looks better because you know the games you have work on it and it has the library of games. Longer term stadia is better placed as it's purely a streaming platform and it has YouTube baked into it. Watching a YouTuber play a game think you can do better with there save? Of you go and try straight away jumping straight into there game state. Someone found a brilliant seed in a game one click there you go into the game. Want to bring back the arcade feel winner stays on a game which is live streamed on you tube as you are in a queue to play.

I honestly think the losing the games if they go under is a worry however it is getting way overblown. How many people buy digital games on other platforms? The worry is still there so unless you buy purely physical media this point is really poor.

Xcloud and stadia bizarrely have the opposite strengths and weaknesses. Xclouds biggest strength and weakness is that it is hybrid system of being tied to consoles means it gets the games the consoles have but cannot showcase the cloud streaming features. Stadias is the opposite in reality in as it's streaming service it isn't tied to consoles so can do whatever it wants with the streaming tech. Jump in and out of save states, user created challenges, much bigger persistent worlds (look at amazons game). However it will be limited by the games at the start as it's a new platform.

If Stadia gets a game which showcases the cloud gaming potential it will gather a lot of support and quickly especially when stadia base launches next year and if it's free to play you can see what will happen. They have the platform in YouTube to leverage it as it's baked into stadia and if a couple of the big YouTubers start playing with the link below to play for free now bang it starts. Just remember if you are going to stream and you use stadia pro that outputs direct to YouTube at 4K. No additional software is required. The people dismissing stadia out of hand can't see how it could grow really quickly. All it takes is one game and it propel them. No console required, no subscription required (for multiplayer or to use the service), f2p games are confirmed.

I will be using both services as I am invested in Xbox ecosystem however I am more excited over stadia by far. With Ubisoft being a big partner with stadia and they are already adding stadia only features in games like for breakpoint (see you squad-mates game in screen at the same time as you are playing) I can really see stadia being my main way to play. I love Ubisoft games and will be getting uplay + for stadia. I am really excited about a pure cloud gaming service and what new and exciting prospects will come with it

 

[Bradbatross]

Yes, one currently streams a catalog of games to your console (or PC). The other currently does not exist.

Both have the potential to eventually stream your digital library to a variety of devices at some point in the future, but neither are currently doing that.

I don't understand why some of these comparisons constantly portray Sony's services as though they're permanently stuck in the year 2014, while their competitors are given the benefit of changing and evolving. I have no problem with the assumption that Microsoft and Google will continue to improve the services that they will introduce in the future, but Sony has already demonstrated that they can improve their existing service.

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Sony has not laid out any plans that match what MS is promising with Xcloud.

 

[lenovox1]

In what year do we get Nintendo streaming video games?

The investors want to know lol

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They're dabbling in it now. The console after the Switch will likely have more "official" streaming capabilities.

 

[Gestault]

Sony and Nvidia have had good streaming for a minute, but been sort of low key. I think they're going to start going harder in the next couple years. Valve will have something sooner or later. Who knows who else. Can't predict anything really.

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It may say something about Sony's infrastructure that using Azure services is looking like their next operational step. In the sense that I bet Sony's current implementation isn't as cost-effective as they'd like it to be. And I do think a decision on that level is a sign they're taking it seriously.

 

[StereoVSN]

Same here. I see it as a expansion to my native stuff and library if i cant use that at the moment. Not a replacement or a new way to a build a library.

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Yeap. I would love to be able to stream games to my fairly large phone screen (7" so bigger then Switch) from PC, Xbox, and PSN. There is software and there are 3rd party services (Pascal, Shadow, Geforce Now, etc..) but it's all clunky. All the services should be taking advantage of our existing libraries.

Paying Google money (or even free subscription) for getting games on Stadia so they are available nowhere else is a losing proposition. It does offer a lot of flexibility potentially on the streaming front but on the library front it fails.

 

[DestroyerOfWorlds]

Okay I meant that they could make emulators on PC for the BC games exclusively for xCloud, so they could use PC hardware instead of Xbox One in xCloud.

To me it just seem shortsighted to use 7 year old 1.4 tf console hardware when launching a new game streaming platform. Especially when a new competitor pops up and use stackable 10.7tf boxes.

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All of the X1 games, plus BC 360 and Xbox games all run on the X1 fine. Trying to get them to run on PC would be a lot of work for no real benefit. There are some limited things they can override, but to really take advantage of PC hardware, they would have to run PC specific versions of games, which is not what we are talking about doing.

They're much better off using the X1S hardware for the initial Mobile focused roll out and the upgrade to Scarlett hardware for the higher end roll out in the future.

 

[cakely]

Here's the takeaway we at Ars had after testing both.

xCloud delivered hair-trigger performance over WiFi with somewhat blocky 720p resolution. we were not allowed to run speedtest/dslreports diagnostics on the Samsung Galaxy S10 phones that we tested on. Instead of running on a web browser, xCloud ran within its own app, which I snuck a teensy peek at via Android screen-swiping gestures before an MS rep got wise and stopped me.

Stadia delivered hair-trigger performance and looked really, really good within Chrome on a Chromebook--1080p, none of the usual YouTube-style artifacts or color-gradient barfing you'd expect from normal streaming video--on a wired connection that we were not allowed to run speedtest/dslreports diagnostics on.

I'm honestly more impressed by the responsive, almost instant latency of xCloud's WiFi results, just because that feels more "impossible" to me. But both are a mix of "holy cow" and "wellllll let's see how that works at MY house." we certainly have questions about how either will scale to higher resolutions (particularly Stadia's 4K promises).

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Nice. Great impressions! I remain optimistic.

 

[jon bones]

Here's the takeaway we at Ars had after testing both.

xCloud delivered hair-trigger performance over WiFi with somewhat blocky 720p resolution. we were not allowed to run speedtest/dslreports diagnostics on the Samsung Galaxy S10 phones that we tested on. Instead of running on a web browser, xCloud ran within its own app, which I snuck a teensy peek at via Android screen-swiping gestures before an MS rep got wise and stopped me.

Stadia delivered hair-trigger performance and looked really, really good within Chrome on a Chromebook--1080p, none of the usual YouTube-style artifacts or color-gradient barfing you'd expect from normal streaming video--on a wired connection that we were not allowed to run speedtest/dslreports diagnostics on.

I'm honestly more impressed by the responsive, almost instant latency of xCloud's WiFi results, just because that feels more "impossible" to me. But both are a mix of "holy cow" and "wellllll let's see how that works at MY house." we certainly have questions about how either will scale to higher resolutions (particularly Stadia's 4K promises).

Click to shrink...

Thank you! It's super exciting tech - glad to hear it is starting off with positive impressions.

 

[cyrribrae]

Here's the takeaway we at Ars had after testing both.

xCloud delivered hair-trigger performance over WiFi with somewhat blocky 720p resolution. we were not allowed to run speedtest/dslreports diagnostics on the Samsung Galaxy S10 phones that we tested on. Instead of running on a web browser, xCloud ran within its own app, which I snuck a teensy peek at via Android screen-swiping gestures before an MS rep got wise and stopped me.

Stadia delivered hair-trigger performance and looked really, really good within Chrome on a Chromebook--1080p, none of the usual YouTube-style artifacts or color-gradient barfing you'd expect from normal streaming video--on a wired connection that we were not allowed to run speedtest/dslreports diagnostics on.

I'm honestly more impressed by the responsive, almost instant latency of xCloud's WiFi results, just because that feels more "impossible" to me. But both are a mix of "holy cow" and "wellllll let's see how that works at MY house." we certainly have questions about how either will scale to higher resolutions (particularly Stadia's 4K promises).

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Man, that's exciting. Great work on the coverage guys (and for trying to get around those corporate watchers haha). Both companies give me the impression that they're all figuring some things out and holding a lot of things back. It'll be an exciting fall for sure this year. Demoing over wifi at the biggest gaming coherence (now with Real People(TM)) AS A FIRST LOOK is pretty ballsy lol. These services work, now.. will it work for me at a price I can pay.

Tickling well, good thing they just announced Football Manager for Game Pass for PC as part of your Game Pass ultimate subscription. I imagine we might be seeing more than just console games get streamed in the Microsoft future (GeForce is already doing it).

 

[mikehaggar]

Eh, article misses the mark a bit I think. If Microsoft bundles xCloud into Gamepass Ultimate (like most are assuming), then for $14.99 or even $19.99 a month (assuming they increase the price) I can stream a huge selection of games to my phone. I don't need to own an Xbox. That's a far better package than what Google is currently pitching for Stadia IMO. Of course, xCloud also extends availability for those who DO own an Xbox and are already part of the ecosystem. Really, they just need to get the service working on more devices (web browser, iOS, etc...).

As long as Microsoft offers xCloud to people who do not own an Xbox (of course they will), these are not two different things at all. And I really think Microsoft is currently in a better position to give people what they want out of a game streaming service which is a Netflix-like subscription for games.

 

[Deleted member 13645]

I don't get what the market for Stadia is. People that want to play Doom Eternal but don't have the local hardware to do so? I don't think that the market is big.

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For me the sell for XCloud and Stadia is the same thing. I want to drop my iPad in my bag with a controller, and be able to pull it out and play games when traveling. Not iPad games, the same games I was playing at home. That's an awesome sell to me if the latency isn't crazy.

Eventually I could also see myself using it at home if, say, Stadia/XCloud can offer me a super high fidelity version of a game that my local hardware can't run. An example of this is Total War Warhammer II. Even with my 2080ti and Ryzen 2700x i'm struggling to run that game at 60fps. If Stadia can throw enough power at it where it hits 60 fps constantly then i'd happily play it on Stadia since it's not a latency-sensitive game (assuming that Stadia worked with m/kb). Hell I could see a world where I stop investing in PC hardware and just play games on a streaming service and my console(s).

 

[khamakazee]

The breakdown I got was Stadia is to replace the need for a console or a high end PC whereas xCloud is used to get Xbox games on other devices like Mobile. Phil already said those who want the best expereince will always gravitate towards native hardware but this will open up more options.

 

[SpinierBlakeD]

XCloud sounds more additive. Not designed to replace your console but allow you to take your games with you on the go. Stadia wants you to stream your games 100% of the time, which is super lame

 

[Fredrik]

All of the X1 games, plus BC 360 and Xbox games all run on the X1 fine. Trying to get them to run on PC would be a lot of work for no real benefit. There are some limited things they can override, but to really take advantage of PC hardware, they would have to run PC specific versions of games, which is not what we are talking about doing.

They're much better off using the X1S hardware for the initial Mobile focused roll out and the upgrade to Scarlett hardware for the higher end roll out in the future.

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XB1 games don't all run fine on XB1, it's not uncommon at all to see the hardware struggle to reach even 30fps at resolutions much lower than 1080p. And I doubt that a bunch of playable 360 and OG Xbox games will be the deciding factor when launching the service, how well the latest AAA release runs is much more important.

But a Scarlett upgrade for the datacenters in the future will fix things of course. I'm thinking that they should launch the service with that instead, having Stadia hardware go up against XB1S hardware in direct comparisons when the spotlight is on cloud gaming will only push people toward Stadia instead, and we all know how hard it is to pull people back after a bad first impression.

 

[Gloomz]

I'm curious about this streaming Xbox games to a mobile device.

Who actually has time to play 'on the go' and if you do, why would you want to play on a tiny ass fuckin' smartphone? I'm scratching my head.

 

[TaleSpun]

So what is PS Now?

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A joke. Always has been.

 

[upinsmoke]

I'm really not interested in playing video games on different screens unless it's a TV or Monitor. That said MS have a bunch of games ready, it will be all the stuff off gamepass.

 

[Fredrik]

I'm curious about this streaming Xbox games to a mobile device.

Who actually has time to play 'on the go' and if you do, why would you want to play on a tiny ass fuckin' smartphone? I'm scratching my head.

Click to shrink...

It's at least better to have the games playable on your regular phone than having to carry around an extra portable device, THAT I don't understand.
But the text must be difficult to read...

 

[thebishop]

Have Xbox people said anything about menus and text being screen-aware? It sounds like Stadia has API features so devs can tailor the UI to the size/resolution/capabilities of your screen.

 

[nekkid]

I'm curious about this streaming Xbox games to a mobile device.

Who actually has time to play 'on the go' and if you do, why would you want to play on a tiny ass fuckin' smartphone? I'm scratching my head.

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It would significantly increase the amount of time I have to game.

And mobiles devices aren't limited to phones. Tablets?

 

[Khanimus]

I mean there's a reason Scarlet isn't all-in on streaming as of now. Not to say they couldn't put a streaming/digital-only version of their box in the future, they know their streaming tech isn't there yet, but also there are huge markets whose infrastructure isn't there yet.

Difference is, we know Microsoft has studios and games in their stable that will be exclusive to their services, whereas Google is advertising games I can get anywhere else.

 

[Zappy]

I'm curious about this streaming Xbox games to a mobile device.

Who actually has time to play 'on the go' and if you do, why would you want to play on a tiny ass fuckin' smartphone? I'm scratching my head.

Click to shrink...

I'm on holiday with an iPhone and iPad. I'd kill to be able to stream my Xbox library and play here. Getting 15 down so should be good enough to stream games.

 

[Vagabond]

Source

More at the link. I am excited to see how these and other platforms play out, but I'm not sure that the stated vision for xCloud of enabling you to play Xbox games strictly on mobile devices is something I'm terribly interested in.

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Because that is not Microsoft's stated vision of xCloud. They were on record of saying they wanted it on every platform including Switch. They may have just demo'd it on mobile but that's not the limit.

 

[DestroyerOfWorlds]

XB1 games don't all run fine on XB1, it's not uncommon at all to see the hardware struggle to reach even 30fps at resolutions much lower than 1080p. And I doubt that a bunch of playable 360 and OG Xbox games will be the deciding factor when launching the service, how well the latest AAA release runs is much more important.

But a Scarlett upgrade for the datacenters in the future will fix things of course. I'm thinking that they should launch the service with that instead, having Stadia hardware go up against XB1S hardware in direct comparisons when the spotlight is on cloud gaming will only push people toward Stadia instead, and we all know how hard it is to pull people back after a bad first impression.

Click to shrink...

Scarlett hardware isn't ready yet and they don't want to wait another year+ to launch their service.

Besides the difference between X1S and Scarlett won't be super important when running on phones, which is their initial target for the service.

Launching to mobile devices while running on X1S hardware is a perfect way to launch the service.

 

[thebishop]

I mean there's a reason Scarlet isn't all-in on streaming as of now. Not to say they couldn't put a streaming/digital-only version of their box in the future, they know their streaming tech isn't there yet, but also there are huge markets whose infrastructure isn't there yet.

Difference is, we know Microsoft has studios and games in their stable that will be exclusive to their services, whereas Google is advertising games I can get anywhere else.

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Yea I'm very hyped for the full cloud streaming vision, the super computer in the cloud that actually makes consoles obsolete. But for sure the infrastructure isn't ready for everyone, and won't be for a while.

But I think it's cool and aggressive that Google is putting their foot down on no downloads. They're going for the hardest problem right away, and I think it will pay off for them year after year.

Regarding games, it was a really exciting time when MS became a first party. Lots of formerly niche PC devs became AAA console devs and it changed the whole landscape. We haven't seen Stadia first party yet, but with the top level staff they've put together and Google's money fountain, I think they're gonna be gunning hard for Sony and MS as a formidable publisher. People who think Stadia is 2 years from shuttering are going to be surprised. This is not a half-assed effort imo.