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The Verge - The world is waiting for Google Stadia to flop

Alienous

Alienous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,598
I don't think Stadia will fail.

I do think it will limp through one console generation before Google loses interest.

I think Stadia only makes sense for Google if they own cloud gaming, and given that they are walking out of the starting blocks with this launch I think Sony and Microsoft will have equally strong (or stronger) cloud gaming offerings once Google gets their bearings.

Will Google care enough to fight an uphill battle to secure a third of the cloud gaming market?
 
cakely

cakely

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,149
Chicago
The Iron Banana said:
Besides when I say people are scared it's not of Google specifically because let's admit it, they need to stick to this long enough to make people notice and they don't have a great track record. What's scary is the new paradigm it can spark. If it's even moderately successful it'll have copy cats and once the tide starts to turn it's hard to stem. People here already freak about digital games and how they're sticking to physical, etc. This isn't even a local machine you can at least still play from offline. It's all online all the time and you have zero control over it.
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I assure you no one here is afraid of this "new paradigm" that Stadia is "going to spark".

You are really misreading the situation.
 
BlueManifest

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,305
Alienous said:
I don't think Stadia will fail.

I don't think it will corner the cloud gaming market, and it will limp through one console generation.

I think Stadia only makes sense for Google if they own cloud gaming, and given that they are walking out of the starting blocks with this launch I think Sony and Microsoft will have equally strong (or stronger) cloud gaming offerings once Google gets their bearings. Will Google care enough to fight an uphill battle to secure a third of the cloud gaming market?
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Both PSnow and xcloud have a long way to go to catch up to stadia on a tech level and also offering new games for full price which neither of them do yet

if I can't completely replace the ps5 console with PSnow then PSnow is no good to me

if I can't completely replace my Xbox 2 with xcloud then xcloud is no good to me
 
BlueManifest

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,305
Alienous said:
They don't have as long to go as Google does in building an audience, studios and franchises people care about.
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That's a given it's a brand new player in the market and is not what I'm talking about

I updated last post

playstation is popular and only has 1 million subs in PSnow, google will have no problem passing that
 

Dark1x

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
3,530
The Iron Banana said:
That's where the fear comes from. Stadia to me represents the biggest step yet towards abolishing the traditional console ownership cycle and people are resistant to it. Sure there's not a lot of "fear" coming from people here and other communities like this but what if MS or Sony see that as a valid Avenue to take? Or hell Nintendo? It's just interesting to me because we all know it's coming but it's just a matter of how willing you are to accept it and most here aren't willing to.
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Correct. I will no longer spend money on modern games if that comes to pass. Period.

There's more than enough content in the past to last!
 
Fatoy

Fatoy

Member
Mar 13, 2019
7,219
The biggest problem with Stadia is that game streaming has already been done to a satisfactory (or even good) standard by about four or five other companies, so "solving" the engineering challenge isn't something Google can trade on. Instead, they need to launch with a compelling service layer on top of the technology... and I don't think anyone believes they've done that.

I always have to caveat these types of posts by saying that I believe in game streaming and I do it on a regular basis. But that's actually part of the problem; I know the tech works, so I need something else to buy into. And Stadia doesn't have it.
 

Deleted member 176

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
37,160
there's like two dudes I have on ignore that post 500+ times in every Stadia thread, and I hope it fails just because of them tbh
 
BlueManifest

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,305
Fatoy said:
The biggest problem with Stadia is that game streaming has already been done to a satisfactory (or even good) standard by about four or five other companies, so "solving" the engineering challenge isn't something Google can trade on. Instead, they need to launch with a compelling service layer on top of the technology... and I don't think anyone believes they've done that.

I always have to caveat these types of posts by saying that I believe in game streaming and I do it on a regular basis. But that's actually part of the problem; I know the tech works, so I need something else to buy into. And Stadia doesn't have it.
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No one has done it so they don't have much competition in cloud streaming
 
abellwillring

abellwillring

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,912
Austin, TX
Parenegade said:

I kind of disagree with the sentiment they lay out right away.

Seems kind of hard to take that statement seriously when xCloud is right around the corner. I know Era is is very anti Stadia but what say you?
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Let's be honest -- xCloud is at its core aimed at gamers. Stadia is theoretically just aimed at anyone who knows Google... aka everyone. And it's very clearly not going to succeed early on. It's like 3D TVs.. they were immediately pushed on the general public right from the start didn't really capture much of the market due to their limitations and then they died. If you have an inherently niche product (in the grand scheme of things), you've got a longer leash.
 
Pheace

Pheace

Member
Aug 23, 2018
1,339
BlueManifest said:
Both PSnow and xcloud have a long way to go to catch up to stadia on a tech level and also offering new games for full price which neither of them do yet

if I can't completely replace the ps5 console with PSnow then PSnow is no good to me

if I can't completely replace my Xbox 2 with xcloud then xcloud is no good to me
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But... Stadia isn't going to completely replace anything either. And no, if you're thinking PC that's never going to happen, unless you only care about the big names that multiplat to the consoles (in which case probably one of the console alternatives will eventually get them too).
 
Fatoy

Fatoy

Member
Mar 13, 2019
7,219
BlueManifest said:
Both in a cloud environment
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I mean, that's absolutely not true from a technology point of view. Shadow will already stream up to 4K, and XCloud, PSNow, and GeForce Now are all heading in the right direction in that respect.

The service portion is more subjective, but if your goal is to play the latest PC games at the highest settings without buying a PC then Shadow will already do it - and give you access to any launcher / storefront you want to buy from.
 
XDevil666

XDevil666

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,985
What they need is pure AAA exclusives and to build some IPs to get people remotely interested.

if it had games as strong as the launches of Nintendo/PS/Xbox then I could see me even giving it a shot. But there is no reason at all currently for me to even try it
 

closer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,165
Dreamwriter said:
I think concentrated datacenters of shared devices would be better for the environment than everyone having their own next-gen game console. Especially because the owners of the datacenters (Google) are incentivized quite a bit to lower energy usage, while people at home generally don't even notice how much electricity their game console is using. I mean heck, 40% of the total energy used by game consoles is while they aren't being played.

Google's pretty good about it, 89% of their datacenter power usage are the servers themselves, only 11% is used for cooling and stuff, and they try to use as much renewable energy as possible.
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I like tentatively agree, partially due to reducing of plastic waste as well. But at the same time:

I'm no expert on this type of thing, but I do hope google considers these things!
 
Windu

Windu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,616
Free game streaming service backed by Google and tied into all of their services. It will do fine. Not sure why everyone is expecting this to fail. The fact alone that it will be tied to YouTube and the Google Play store means millions of people will use it.
 
Alucardx23

Alucardx23

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,711
Dark1x said:
Correct. I will no longer spend money on modern games if that comes to pass. Period.

There's more than enough content in the past to last!
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Last time you said you would buy the digital
Fatoy said:
The biggest problem with Stadia is that game streaming has already been done to a satisfactory (or even good) standard by about four or five other companies, so "solving" the engineering challenge isn't something Google can trade on. Instead, they need to launch with a compelling service layer on top of the technology... and I don't think anyone believes they've done that.

I always have to caveat these types of posts by saying that I believe in game streaming and I do it on a regular basis. But that's actually part of the problem; I know the tech works, so I need something else to buy into. And Stadia doesn't have it.
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The advantage that Stadia has over other cloud gaming services like shadow is the scale of their service and how it will be integrated on services like YouTube. For someone like you that already has access to a service like Shadow, the advantage Stadia will offer is how it's designed for elastic rendering and other advantages from having networked blades. So far I haven't seen any other cloud gaming service talk about that. An example is Grid and the exclusive 40 player mode, but this is something small compared to what I expect from Stadia once developers really start to design their games around what is possible.
 
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Alucardx23

Alucardx23

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,711
Dark1x said:
Nah, I'll just cover what I have to for DF (using press accounts) and stick to retro games.
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Mmm, that's weird, I started to write something and it posted without me finishing. The complete post was to ask you about the time you said you would buy digital only games but not at full price. You mentioned $20.00 as the limit.

In any case I guess this is just a mental barrier for you. You might play them with the DF account, but what will happen once you play an exclusive cloud game that has a massive persistent world that is impossible to create on a local console, with levels of detail and gameplay you haven't seen before. When that point comes I trust that you will be honest and say that you did enjoy that game, if that is truly the case and explain how that was possible due to the power of the cloud. This is all that matters in the end. Other than that, you are just enjoying a free game. Everyone would like to have that option. ;)
 
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SlickVic

SlickVic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,948
USA
I think the one thing that potentially appeals to me with Stadia is being able to play a PC game on presumably max settings. Even on the free tier 1080p resolution, that may end up being better graphics and performance than my current rig, especially as it gets older and I'm not sure when I'll get around to an upgrade.
I see something like Cyberpunk and have to imagine it'll look better on Stadia than it will on my current system (assuming the service works as intended). But I don't know how interesting that is to everyone else.

I think the service also has potential to pivot as well if the current model doesn't quite pan out. Whether that's them doing their own Gamepass program, or just straight up offering short-term game rentals, I guess it remains to be seen. I think a game rental option could potentially be interesting, especially since there's no download needed, and could be a decent option to perhaps play through a shorter game.
 

Dark1x

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
3,530
Alucardx23 said:
Mmm, that's weird, I started to write something and it posted without me finishing. The complete post was to ask you about the time you said you would buy digital only games but not at full price. You mentioned $20.00 as the limit.

In any case I guess this is just a mental barrier for you. You might play them with the DF account, but what will happen once you play an exclusive cloud game that has a massive persistent world that is impossible to create on a local console, with levels of detail and gameplay you haven't seen before. When that point comes I trust that you will be honest and say that you did enjoy that game, if that is truly the case and explain how that was possible due to the power of the cloud. This is all that matters in the end. Other than that, you are just enjoying a free game. Everyone would like to have that option. ;)
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I really have no interest in persistent worlds. That type of game isn't appealing. I think those games could be great for streaming - people that play them would benefit. I do not like any MMO style games. I don't want to play them, I've hated what I've played in the past and I don't really have interest in them going forward. They are not for me.

I've continued to not buy full priced digital games. I don't think I've done that this entire year!

You're not going to convince me. Period. Streaming would kill my work and my interest in new games. My internet connection can't support it properly either due to Germany's very poor infrastructure.
 
Alucardx23

Alucardx23

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,711
Dark1x said:
I really have no interest in persistent worlds. That type of game isn't appealing. I think those games could be great for streaming - people that play them would benefit. I do not like any MMO style games. I don't want to play them, I've hated what I've played in the past and I don't really have interest in them going forward. They are not for me.

I've continued to not buy full priced digital games. I don't think I've done that this entire year!

You're not going to convince me. Period. Streaming would kill my work and my interest in new games. My internet connection can't support it properly either due to Germany's very poor infrastructure.
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I guess I didn't explain myself clearly, sorry for that. I was talking about a scenario that would impress you and it was only possible due to the power of the cloud, who knows what that would be in your case or even if you know it yourself. If it comes to that, will you say it as such on DF or is your problem with cloud gaming is so big that you would not say that you enjoyed a cloud game if it came to happen?
 

Dark1x

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
3,530
Alucardx23 said:
I guess I didn't explain myself clearly, sorry for that. I was talking about a scenario that would impress you and it was only possible due to the power of the cloud, who knows what that would be in your case or even if you know it yourself. If it comes to that, will you say it as such on DF or is your problem with cloud gaming is so big that you would not say that you enjoyed a cloud game if it came to happen?
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I get to choose what I cover and if cloud gaming were the only thing left...I don't even know what I'd be doing. If we were around, maybe just DF Retro all the time?
 
karnage10

karnage10

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,499
Portugal
personally speaking i don't see what stadia offers that psnow and project cloud don't offer. Alongside this by joining psnow and/or project cloud you have several benefits if you are already in the ecosystem.
IMO the only weapon stadia can have is using PC only games which it isn't a thing right now.
 
Alucardx23

Alucardx23

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,711
Dark1x said:
I get to choose what I cover and if cloud gaming were the only thing left...I don't even know what I'd be doing. If we were around, maybe just DF Retro all the time?
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I wasn't talking about a situation where all other consoles stopped existing, just that if the example I gave came to pass, can we trust you to say that you did enjoy a cloud game and share what impressed you about it. The first thing you said sounds like you would even reject covering a cloud game if it would appear to you that you might like it or even be impressed by it, if that is the case then no more questions from me.
 
BlueManifest

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,305
Dark1x said:
I get to choose what I cover and if cloud gaming were the only thing left...I don't even know what I'd be doing. If we were around, maybe just DF Retro all the time?
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Will DF be negative in stadia coverage because you don't like cloud gaming? Or will you be fair with it's performance
 

Dark1x

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
3,530
BlueManifest said:
Will DF be negative in stadia coverage because you don't like cloud gaming? Or will you be fair with it's performance
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Oh I'd imagine coverage will be very fair! I think the tech is super interesting but, honestly, I probably won't be the one covering it at all - other than light discussion maybe.

Rich, on the other hand, things streaming is super cool so he's the one to do it.

Even if I DO talk about it...it's very easy to set aside opinion and just talk tech. I don't think I will have much to do with it, though, as it's not for me.
 
BlueManifest

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,305
Dark1x said:
Oh I'd imagine coverage will be very fair! I think the tech is super interesting but, honestly, I probably won't be the one covering it at all - other than light discussion maybe.

Rich, on the other hand, things streaming is super cool so he's the one to do it.

Even if I DO talk about it...it's very easy to set aside opinion and just talk tech. I don't think I will have much to do with it, though, as it's not for me.
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Do you have stadia in your offices yet or do you have to wait like the rest of us
 
Agamon

Agamon

Member
Aug 1, 2019
1,781
C'mon, Verge, terrible wording.

I don't "wait for" horrific car accidents, but it's really hard to tear your eyes away from watching one happening before you.
 
Alucardx23

Alucardx23

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,711
BlueManifest said:
Will DF be negative in stadia coverage because you don't like cloud gaming? Or will you be fair with it's performance
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It would have been the easiest thing in the world to say "yes, you can expect an honest analysis/review from me if I ever get to cover or comment on a cloud game that surprises me technically and gameplay wise, I will share that on the video and not hide it from you, regardless of how I currently feel about cloud gaming". Instead we got:

"it's very easy to set aside opinion and just talk tech"

"I get to choose what I cover and if cloud gaming were the only thing left...I don't even know what I'd be doing"

I have to say that I'm disappointed on this. I see every single video on DF and I specifically enjoy John's content. For someone that is as logical as he appears to be most of the time, he really seems to have a tough time answering the question I made.
 

Dark1x

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
3,530
Alucardx23 said:
It would have been the easiest thing in the world to say "yes, you can expect an honest analysis/review from me if I ever get to cover or comment on a cloud game that surprises me technically and gameplay wise, I will share that on the video and not hide it from you, regardless of how I currently feel about cloud gaming". Instead we got:

"it's very easy to set aside opinion and just talk tech"

"I get to choose what I cover and if cloud gaming were the only thing left...I don't even know what I'd be doing"

I have to say that I'm disappointed on this. I see every single video on DF and I specifically enjoy John's content. For someone that is as logical as he appears to be most of the time, he really seems to have a tough time answering the question I made.
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Why is streaming important to you?

I've told you why it's a threat to my job and hobby. I can't not be passionate about this - you must understand. This is so against everything I'm about.

Like I said - I won't be reviewing it or doing much on it. So you can look forward to coverage from those that do care. If I DO find a game that, somehow, impresses me...I guess I can admit that it was good? I just don't know how the cloud could impress. The use cases all involve the types of games I don't care for.

I'm scared of what streaming represents. Is that enough for you? It does worry me.
 
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