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The Verge: San Francisco to ban ecig sales without FDA approved in 2020

Kthulhu

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
Edited the title slightly as I found it a little inaccurate.

San Francisco officials just banned the sale or distribution of e-cigarettes in the city unless they have FDA approval. The ban, which also affects some flavored tobacco products, adds to restrictions that the city put in place on flavored e-cigarettes last year — already considered to be the strictest in the country according to TheNew York Times. Cigarettes remain legal
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At the moment, this ordinance essentially bans all e-cigarettes from being sold in or shipped to people in the city, because, as acting FDA commissioner Ned Sharpless noted earlier this month: "There are no authorized e-cigarettes currently on the market." E-cigarette companies, including the San Francisco-based Juul, currently have until 2022 to submit applications for FDA approval. And until they get that approval, they can't be sold in the city. Unsurprisingly, Juul is not happy about the ban, protesting that it still allows cigarettes to be sold in the city. Bloomberg reports that the company has been behind a push to put the issue on the ballot in November, potentially allowing voters to decide if e-cigarettes should be sold in the city to people over the age of 21.
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Source: https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/25/18758505/san-francisco-juul-ban-fda-e-cigarettes-sf

TL;DR: this effectively bans ecigs in SF.

Please lock if old.
 
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Kthulhu

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
Could a mod fix my grammar in the title by changing approved to approval?
 
inner-G

inner-G

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
14,473
PNW
Dishwalla said:
regular cigarettes aren't as attractive to kids as e-cigs are
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I guess the kids just don't know what cool is anymore lol

jamesdean1-664x442-c-19jdi.jpg


I mean, I guess if it makes sense for the city whatever, but it just seems weird they would do it without doing something to cover analog cigarettes too. I mean, won't most people who switched to ecigs just switch back to stogies or get their cartridges online?
 
jeelybeans

jeelybeans

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,948
Wait, there are weed vapes that people use in SF. So you can use weed vapes but not ecigs? Lol...

Also, this just seems like big tobacco or ecig manufacturers that are rich enough to some day getting an FDA approval taking advantage of "liberal" cities.
 
LordofPwn

LordofPwn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,402
inner-G said:
Idk my town (and I think SF) has legal weed too.

Just seems weird they would keep the combustible method and ban the 'safer' one.
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yes weed is getting legalized in state/local levels more and more but cigs that are extremely more lethal continue to not be banned, because of big tobacco.
 
Tapiozona

Tapiozona

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
2,253
This is a tough one for me. As an ex-smoker (I don't smoke anything anymore), I see the benefit of e-cigs for quitting real smoking habits. Would banning these just push people back to real cigarettes? I'm willing to bet yes, and in significant numbers as well.

Honestly banning Juul but allowing Marlboro's to be sold is one of the most idiotic things I've ever heard of.

"We're going to ban this unprooven possible health risk but allow you to instead buy this prooven deadly health menace instead"
 
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Kthulhu

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
shazrobot said:
Why not just ban all nicotine?
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That'd just hurt addicts.

Tapiozona said:
This is a tough one for me. As an ex-smoker (I don't smoke anything anymore), I see the benefit of e-cigs for quitting real smoking habits. Would banning these just push people back to real cigarettes? I'm willing to bet yes, and in significant numbers as well.

Honestly banning Juul but allowing Marlboro's to be sold is one of the most idiotic things I've ever heard of.

"We're going to ban this unprooven possible health risk but allow you to instead buy this prooven deadly health menace instead"
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Do regular cigarettes have FDA approval? If so I imagine that was the logic.
 
inner-G

inner-G

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
14,473
PNW
LordofPwn said:
yes weed is getting legalized in state/local levels more and more but cigs that are extremely more lethal continue to not be banned, because of big tobacco.
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This is like banning wine coolers and allowing vodka, though (to me at least)

I mean i get banning them, just not without banning the more harmful versions first. It's like they're telling residents to switch back to regular tobacco.


Dishwalla said:
that's not what cool is anymore boomer. this is what's cool
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Eew. I have a Pax 2 vape for weed, but it's not as effective as smoking
 
DavidDesu

DavidDesu

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,718
Glasgow, Scotland
Really makes no sense considering how good vaping has been getting people off of deadly cigarettes. From most scientific analysis it seems vaping is at least massively less dangerous to one's health than cigarettes. It's like they've made one extreme decision responding to one upsetting static (more young people vaping and it being a gateway to cigarettes). I feel like surely they could bring in legislation to maybe prevent younger people using ecigs at all rather than this sledgehammer backwards approach.
 
offtopic

offtopic

Banned
Nov 21, 2017
2,694
inner-G said:
Idk my town (and I think SF) has legal weed too.

Just seems weird they would keep the combustible method and ban the 'safer' one.
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I think the issue is that ecigs can be manufactured with dangerous/unknown chemicals that are aerosolized directly into your lungs. Any medical device manufacturer that created such a device to deliver chemicals/medicines would be absolutely required to be FDA approved (which is one step above 'cleared') so I'm not sure why ecigs should be any different.
 

Deleted member 12028

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,085
Good, tired of walking behind these assholes and then blowing their smoke everywhere every 5 seconds. Obviously this won't stop it, but I'm glad it will be harder for them.
 
OrangeNova

OrangeNova

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,658
Canada
Good. Ecigs/vapes have undone 30 years of reducing youth nicotine intake..

Also Popcorn lung is fucked up and they absolutely cause it.
 
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Afrikan

Afrikan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
16,990
I saw a young well dressed couple with shades walking around my neighborhood "vaping" (is it called?)

Looked weird. I'm trying to remember if I saw couples in the early 90's walking together smoking cigarettes.
 
Yung Coconut

Yung Coconut

Member
Oct 31, 2017
4,267
At least I can still buy cigarettes and weed. Weed is FDA approved, right? 😂

Daly City and Oakland ecig shops about to make bank.

OrangeNova said:
Good. Ecigs/vapes have undone 30 years of reducing youth nicotine intake..

Also Popcorn lung is fucked up and they absolutely cause it.
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Nicotine is no worse than caffeine. The problem with cigarettes isn't exactly the nicotine. It's the carcinogens and chemicals... the burning.

And there isn't a single documented case of popcorn lung due to ecig use. Matter of fact, I can't even think of a single reputable juice line that even uses the ingredient tied to popcorn lung anymore.

Again, you're completely full of copious amounts of shit.
 
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Kthulhu

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
Yung Coconut said:
At least I can still buy cigarettes and weed. We'd is FDA approved, right? 😂

Daly City and Oakland ecig shops about to make bank.
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Part of why I have mixed feelings on the ban. SF isn't all that big, it's not like someone that really wants them can't get them.

Also makes it more like a push to regulate the industry.
 
OrangeNova

OrangeNova

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,658
Canada
Yung Coconut said:
At least I can still buy cigarettes and weed. Weed is FDA approved, right? 😂

Daly City and Oakland ecig shops about to make bank.



Nicotine is no worse than caffeine. The problem with cigarettes isn't exactly the nicotine. It's the carcinogens and chemicals... the burning.

And there isn't a single documented case of popcorn lung due to ecig use. Matter of fact, I can't even think of a single reputable juice line that even uses the ingredient tied to popcorn lung anymore.

Again, you're completely full of copious amounts of shit.
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Nicotine is much worse than caffeine, and while not as carcinogenic as the other parts of a cigarette, it is a chemical and still cancer causing, the burning is from nicotene btw

Vaping being "Cool" has caused a 74% increase in kids in-taking nicotine.

Diacetyl was found in over 90% of vape liquids tested

Fight me.
 
Yung Coconut

Yung Coconut

Member
Oct 31, 2017
4,267
Kthulhu said:
Part of why I have mixed feelings on the ban. SF isn't all that big, it's not like someone that really wants them can't get them.

Also makes it more like a push to regulate the industry.
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Want to purchase some crack or heroin and smoke/shoot it up right outside of Mission BART in front of some cops? It's all good in the neighborhood! You do you! But purchasing ecig products? Forget it!
 
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Yung Coconut

Yung Coconut

Member
Oct 31, 2017
4,267
OrangeNova said:
Nicotine is much worse than caffeine, and while not as carcinogenic as the other parts of a cigarette, it is a chemical and still cancer causing, the burning is from nicotine btw.
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😂😂😂😂😂

No, the burning is from physically burning the tobacco. Nicotine is just a substance found inside tobacco. And yes, nicotine is very similar to caffeine in the effects and whatever damage it can cause to the human body.

Like, you aren't really this dense, right?

Also, you can get ecig juice with no nicotine... What's your stupid argument now?

Edit: And no, shit parents are the cause for increase use of vaping products among children. And guess what, kids are smoking too. They're also drinking and doing drugs. Parent your own damn children. It's not society's job to do it for you.
 
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DashReindeer

DashReindeer

Perfect World
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
531
The only people this hurts are nicotine addicts. As someone who's been hopelessly addicted to tobacco at different points in my life, ecigs were a godsend in terms of allowing me to stop smoking.

Call me crazy, but I always assume that anti vaping laws are backed by tobacco companies who have seen ecigs steadily devour their sales amongst the younger market.
 
Ryu_Ken

Ryu_Ken

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,783
OrangeNova said:
Nicotine is much worse than caffeine, and while not as carcinogenic as the other parts of a cigarette, it is a chemical and still cancer causing, the burning is from nicotene btw

Vaping being "Cool" has caused a 74% increase in kids in-taking nicotine.

Diacetyl was found in over 90% of vape liquids tested

Fight me.
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Given Diacetyl has been banned since 2016 for eliquids I call shenanigans.


As for the rest of your post, drivel.
 
FantasticMrFoxdie

FantasticMrFoxdie

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
16,409
Mushroom Kingdom
Vapelord

Vapelord

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,830
Montreal
OrangeNova said:
Nicotine is much worse than caffeine, and while not as carcinogenic as the other parts of a cigarette, it is a chemical and still cancer causing, the burning is from nicotene btw

Vaping being "Cool" has caused a 74% increase in kids in-taking nicotine.

Diacetyl was found in over 90% of vape liquids tested

Fight me.
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Which was still 85 times lower than the "worst" cigarette tested for the same compound. https://www.ecblendflavorshop.com/helpdesk/knowledgebase.php?article=93
 
OrangeNova

OrangeNova

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,658
Canada
Ryu_Ken

Ryu_Ken

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,783
OrangeNova said:
Not even acknowledging my sources. Vaping doesn't cause popcorn lung no, but 90% of vape juice tested has a chemical that does.

Fight your addictions. Do you like it, or are you addicted to it.
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Not acknowledging mine either that states it has been banned since 2016.

I'm not addicted, But it helped me get off the cigs years ago.
 
Yung Coconut

Yung Coconut

Member
Oct 31, 2017
4,267
OrangeNova said:
Not even acknowledging my sources. Vaping doesn't cause popcorn lung no, but 90% of vape juice tested has a chemical that does.

Fight your addictions. Do you like it, or are you addicted to it.
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Cigarettes have a billion times more diacetyl in them and an insane amount of other terrible chemicals.

And like, fuck you. You care so much about people's health? Wanting to take away one of the best tools for people to stop smoking cigarettes is obviously the next step lol I can also decide what to put into my own body without your disingenuous help.

Try spending some time worrying about your own shit if you're that bored.
 
shazrobot

shazrobot

Member
Oct 28, 2017
882
Yung Coconut said:
And caffeine then. Because nicotine isn't the thing causing smokers to get cancer.
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This was tongue in cheek sorry it was not totally apparent at all. I think the ban is ridiculous. If the city is going to ban ecigs and vapes (which as far as I'm aware are proven by many reputable associations to be less harmful then cigarettes) but let cigarettes stay on the market? Ridiculous.
 
Xx 720

Xx 720

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,920
The funny thing is how brainwashed the general public is about nicotine - it's actually not a carcinogen, so vaping it via an ecig gets banned...while smoking it with tobacco and God knows what else they add to cigarettes is just fine.
 
Guy.brush

Guy.brush

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,358
On the way home I passed by an ad for an e-cig subscription. I think it was Jule. 9 Euro a month, starting subscription. How does that even work? Subscribing to a cigarette? Are you getting a monthly mini bottle of Nicotine sent to you?
This whole thing is what you get when Big Tobacco and Silicon Valley have a baby. Really, really nasty.
 
Quality Garbage

Quality Garbage

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,650
San Francisco
This doesn't ban the use of those products, it bans the sale of those products inside the county, which the city has every right to do.

Just because something is produced doesn't mean it's allowed to be sold.

But let's be honest, these products are the introduction for a lot of people into the market, especially kids because of compact design and non residual smell. Most adults in the city don't use shitty ecig carts from juul and other companies, they use their own juice and equipment, which I don't think is banned because of the way its packaged and sold.

I used to get pulled out of school as a kid because my parents smoked and I smelled like it therefore I was thought to be a smoker in middle school. Kids nowadays can consume nicotine all they want without being found out.

It's telling when Juul aka big tobacco thinks the city should institute surveillance and ID scanning so that they can sell their products "adults" when their MO for the last to 60 years has been to get them hooked as young as possible.
 
Rizific

Rizific

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,951
vaping is one of those topics that people love to come by and drop in their 2c worth of ill-informed shitposting, just regurgitating whatever click bait tabloid article they saw on their facebook feed. its quite obvious who these posters are as well. if youre even slightly interested in the subject id encourage you to read the many studies that have been done on ecig vapor. i wont spoil it for you, but the answers are in there.
Guy.brush said:
On the way home I passed by an ad for an e-cig subscription. I think it was Jule. 9 Euro a month, starting subscription. How does that even work? Subscribing to a cigarette? Are you getting a monthly mini bottle of Nicotine sent to you?
This whole thing is what you get when Big Tobacco and Silicon Valley have a baby. Really, really nasty.
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im subbed to a monthly liquid subscription, and yeah thats exactly how it works except it isnt exactly a bottle of nicotine. its a bottle of whatever flavor that may or may not contain nicotine. To me, this seems like the tipping point for the industry to start pushing towards FDA approval and legitimate regulation, which im in favor of.
 
pokeystaples

pokeystaples

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,354
inner-G said:
Eew. I have a Pax 2 vape for weed, but it's not as effective as smoking
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Man, those Pax vapes are so terrible for flower. The pods are equally trash imo. I wish they would just make a really good battery for carts.

On topic, I'm okay with this, but I don't have any stock in the game. I just found a Juul someone left behind while packing for a move and tossed it.
 
OrangeNova

OrangeNova

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,658
Canada
Yung Coconut said:
Cigarettes have a billion times more diacetyl in them and an insane amount of other terrible chemicals.

And like, fuck you. You care so much about people's health? Wanting to take away one of the best tools for people to stop smoking cigarettes is obviously the next step lol I can also decide what to put into my own body without your disingenuous help.

Try spending some time worrying about your own shit if you're that bored.
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I'd love if cigarettes were banned wholesale, I was very much for when Halifax city council put forth designated smoking areas in the city and banning it everywhere else.

And if you want it to be a stop smoking aid, get it FDA approved and have nicotine containing liquids only be available through a prescription and controlled by that.

Hell if they were FDA approved they wouldn't have an issue with this law.

I don't know what you're even trying to argue, but cool move on the "fuck you". Nowhere to go but insults when someone suggests maybe your vice is unhealthy.
 
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