(The Verge) Microsoft started manufacturing "late summer". About Series X|S ratio balance: "Over the long run, in most cases, price wins out"

[StrappingYoungLance]

The PS4 continued to outsell the PS4 Pro and the Xbox One S continued to outsell the Xbox One X.

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The PS4 Pro and Xbox One X were both marketed as premium options for the most hardcore, your PS4 and XB1S were the base systems.

The Series S launches alongside the Series X as a clearly budget system. I don't think it's an easy comparison to previous generations and how sales have trended there. I think the Series S will prove to be a success long term, I'm not sold on it being the higher seller and I'm skeptical of Phil's argument.

That said, Microsoft are going to have a much better idea of how these markets trend than me, Joe Schmoe forum poster, so we'll see.

 

[Scottoest]

Well, looks like no Halo Infinite until spring at the absolute earliest, based on one quote in that interview:

In the long run, I think what's going to happen is we're going to get a better Halo game at a good time when people can actually get a console.

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Earlier in the interview he mentions that he doesn't think supply pressures will really ease up until the spring.

Not really surprising or anything, but the first kinda-sorta indrect confirmation we've had that it's going to be longer than just a few months.

 

[UraMallas]

Earlier in the interview he mentions that he doesn't think supply pressures will really ease up until the spring.

Not really surprising or anything, but the first kinda-sorta indrect confirmation we've had that it's going to be longer than just a few months.

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At that point you have to wonder why WOULD you release Halo before supply catches up? I can't see a good reason to do so. The upside for delaying it until at least mid-Summer is twofold at that point - you can actually sell more consoles and you give the teams working on it much more time.

 

[Powerofthecloud]

It's just like the digital ps5 with Sony. Why not sell the item with the high margins first until cost go down as the units are going to sell out regardless.

 

[bsigg]

It's just like the digital ps5 with Sony. Why not sell the item with the high margins first until cost go down as the units are going to sell out regardless.

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These consoles won't have cost reductions like we're used to seeing since in order to move to a smaller process for the SoC, it will actually cost more money. I wouldn't be surprised to see neither MS or Sony permanently lower the price of the consoles, just offer discounts or pack ins down the line.

 

[Deleted member 11008]

Saw a lone Series S at Walmart today. Almost bought it, but the fact that BC is in Xbox One S mode and not Xbox One X kinda soured me on the idea.

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I hope this can be changed in the future, so the games can run with One X but avoiding higher resolutions. If feasible it would be a very "hack" solution, but I feel the OG Xbox and 360 BC program are quite like that haha

 

[Deleted member 16753]

You can buy a Series S no problem here in Switzerland. It was even 11% off on 11/11 (so were the other consoles but they were out of stock).

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The Swiss tend to go for the higher end product as the average salary is incredibly high and the cost of electronics is generally lower than the rest of Europe.

 

[M4xim1l1ano]

I hope this can be changed in the future, so the games can run with One X but avoiding higher resolutions. If feasible it would be a very "hack" solution, but I feel the OG Xbox and 360 BC program are quite like that haha

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Buy it as a retro-console then ;).

My idea is to buy the XSX for best gaming experience and a Series S just for the purpose of Retroarch emulation. I have some old disc laying around from dreamcast and PS1..(front mission, Xenogears, Ridge Racer Type 4 for example) that I would like to revisit again.. and other classic snes/megadrive and perhaps even stuff from amiga

 

[christocolus]

What does that mean? RDNA2?

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most likely.

 

[Fredrik]

Bah, the interviewer can't leave an answer like that hanging, now I want to know what AMD tech they were waiting for.

 

[Haint]

My question is why would someone who is presently full time gaming on a base PS4 or Xbox One S spend $300 to play the same games at marginally higher resolutions and frame rates? You're talking about a demographic who doesn't know what resolution or frame rate are.

 

[Linus815]

My question is why would someone who is presently full time gaming on a base PS4 or Xbox One S spend $300 to play the same games at marginally higher resolutions and frame rates? You're talking about a demographic who doesn't know what resolution or frame rate are.

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its really funny how era keeps insisting the average consumer is completely devoid of a functioning brain

 

[Haint]

its really funny how era keeps insisting the average consumer is completely devoid of a functioning brain

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Even if we accept that a majority of them do, there's obviously a very very strong argument that they don't care. In the past this demographic has been roped into buying new boxes with exclusive games and generational advancements in asset and production quality. Series S lacks all of the above. It's effectively a PS4 Pro or Xbone X that favors performance instead of 4K. What's their incentive to drop $300 on that?

 

[EvilBoris]

My question is why would someone who is presently full time gaming on a base PS4 or Xbox One S spend $300 to play the same games at marginally higher resolutions and frame rates? You're talking about a demographic who doesn't know what resolution or frame rate are.

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That is pretty much what everyone has bought a next gen console for currently

 

[Pooroomoo]

I disagree with his "over the long run, price wins out" - just look at Switch vs Switch Lite sales. Though one might argue we haven't experienced the long run yet, but I do believe non-Lite Switch version will continue to sell best. Admittedly he did say "in most cases".

 

[nekkid]

I disagree with his "over the long run, price wins out" - just look at Switch vs Switch Lite sales. Though one might argue we haven't experienced the long run yet, but I do believe non-Lite Switch version will continue to sell best. Admittedly he did say "in most cases".

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If they'd launched together you'd expect the Switch Lite to do a lot better.

 

[pswii60]

My question is why would someone who is presently full time gaming on a base PS4 or Xbox One S spend $300 to play the same games at marginally higher resolutions and frame rates? You're talking about a demographic who doesn't know what resolution or frame rate are.

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They'll pay $300 for the obvious QoL features, but more importantly to play games that aren't available on their current console. Clearly that's not much of a selling point right now for Xbox but in the timelines Phil is talking about (2nd, 3rd holiday) obviously it will be with first and third party games they can't play on last gen consoles, and S being the cheapest point of entry to this gen. Not to mention that S will see price drops over the course of this gen too, we could be looking at a $199 box in a couple of years or so.

 

[Pooroomoo]

If they'd launched together you'd expect the Switch Lite to do a lot better.

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We'll have to agree to disagree, personally based on what I see I doubt it (btw I do have both Lite and OG in my household), OG Switch still sells far better on a monthly basis except on those occasions when there is far more Lite stock and OG is hard to find. Even with the WiiU which was a sales disaster, the better selling version was the $350 one and not the $300 version. Of course in that case there were other factors at play, but still.

 

[Deleted member 50232]

To be honest I think both Sony and Microsoft have done a remarkable job launching new consoles worldwide during a global pandemic. Fair play to them.

Also to the devs for shipping so many great games whilst working in isolation.

can't have even easy.

 

[Haint]

That is pretty much what everyone has bought a next gen console for currently

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True, but the 5 and X appeal to core gamers, tech/gadgetphiles, and adults with disposable income who want "the best" console. Those groups typically know about that stuff and are willing to drop $400-$500 to play the best console versions of games, or the incredibly rare next-gen exclusive. The Series S appeals to the budget shopper who doesn't know about that stuff, won't spend $300 to play 1 or 2 exclusive games, and doesn't care if Madden runs at 900p/30fps.

They'll pay $300 for the obvious QoL features, but more importantly to play games that aren't available on their current console. Clearly that's not much of a selling point right now for Xbox but in the timelines Phil is talking about (2nd, 3rd holiday) obviously it will be with first and third party games they can't play on last gen consoles, and S being the cheapest point of entry to this gen. Not to mention that S will see price drops over the course of this gen too, we could be looking at a $199 box in a couple of years or so.

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Even I wouldn't spend $300 for QoL features. Come'on now.

 

[Rosebud]

In Brazil Series S is still available, while Series X sold out.

I hope it remains this way tbh, I want games optimized better for the high end consoles.

 

[JoJoBae]

My question is why would someone who is presently full time gaming on a base PS4 or Xbox One S spend $300 to play the same games at marginally higher resolutions and frame rates? You're talking about a demographic who doesn't know what resolution or frame rate are.

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Resolution isn't something that isn't always super evident to a lot of people. Performance is. I only have an XB1 and I'm willing to upgrade to a Series S just to get fucking Monster Hunter to run above 20fps and the shittiest looking 720p I've seen in my life.

 

[HeRinger]

I disagree with his "over the long run, price wins out" - just look at Switch vs Switch Lite sales. Though one might argue we haven't experienced the long run yet, but I do believe non-Lite Switch version will continue to sell best. Admittedly he did say "in most cases".

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True, but the reason Switch OG does better is because of functionality, not power. To be able to "switch" is the main selling point of the console, and research proves most players do switch modes fairly often.

Besides that, the Switch is already at a price closer to impulse buy territory. And the Lite is only $100 cheaper, not $200.

Time will tell if better looking games will be enough for SX to maintain the lead. I think history favors MS's position that better looking games were never that big of a factor when it comes to sales.

 

[KeRaSh]

Is that something they could just safely do without too much testing?
I mean AMD just finalizing some new RDNA2 feature and Microsoft just slaps it onto their chip that they've been testing for months without that feature?
It would also be interesting to find out what that feature is specifically.

 

[Burai]

True, but the 5 and X appeal to core gamers, tech/gadgetphiles, and adults with disposable income who want "the best" console. Those groups typically know about that stuff and are willing to drop $400-$500 to play the best console versions of games, or the incredibly rare next-gen exclusive. The Series S appeals to the budget shopper who doesn't know about that stuff, won't spend $300 to play 1 or 2 exclusive games, and doesn't care if Madden runs at 900p/30fps.



Even I wouldn't spend $300 for QoL features. Come'on now.

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You're acting as though the Xbox One S and PS4 will be around forever. They won't. Nor will versions of games for those consoles retain feature parity. Look at FIFA on the Switch to see how Madden will look on those machines in the coming years. The older consoles will be left behind and the case to upgrade will become more and more compelling.

 

[christocolus]

Is that something they could just safely do without too much testing?
I mean AMD just finalizing some new RDNA2 feature and Microsoft just slaps it onto their chip that they've been testing for months without that feature?
It would also be interesting to find out what that feature is specifically.

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considering how closely they worked with AMD all through the development of the console it wouldn't surprise me. They probably had various designs and built numerous prototypes based on AMDs proposed specs/tech.

 

[Deleted member 22750]

All this talk on this site is from enthusiasts

games are what matters

in 3 years from now all of this lol Microsoft talk that we see could change if their studios and acquisitions put out games and content the masses want. Can you imagine a future where Xbox has first party games, gamepass, and a cheaper 300 dollar console compared to the 500 dollar alternatives?

it's that simple

the Nintendo switch exists because Nintendo software

Developers developers developers
Developers developers developers!!!!

 

[SinCityAssassin]

Explains why their stock shipments seem better at retail right now.

 

[arsene_P5]

These consoles won't have cost reductions like we're used to seeing since in order to move to a smaller process for the SoC, it will actually cost more money. I wouldn't be surprised to see neither MS or Sony permanently lower the price of the consoles, just offer discounts or pack ins down the line.

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I think this is very important to understand and the reason Series S is actually a good idea, which won't hold back next gen. It will make the gen 9 accessable to many new gamers for years to come and let publishers invest earlier into next gen exclusive games.

Don't get me wrong, PS5 at 400$ is the better deal than S and imo PS5 will outsell both Xbox consoles. But gen 9 without a Series S would sell far less than next gen with the smaller console, because as you said price isn't going down anytime soon. The bigger the overall install base the better, even for consumers.