-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
The Verge: "Google tries shaming Apple into adopting RCS with #getthemessage campaign"
- Thread starter Mafro
- Start date
My Favorite was Google Allo. 😭
Allo was Google really giving iMessage and FB Messager a run for their money with "fun" chat features, and in a few ways it was a better app than both.
Problem is, again, Americans are not conditioned to download a separate app just for messaging versus what comes with their phone. Even if that experience has been inferior for years.
Hell the experience on Google messages is better in group chats with iPhone users than the other way around. We no longer see those anoying so and so liked this message messages. It adds the reactive emote to the corresponding messages. iPhones could of fixed this issue years ago.
Whoa, they haven't?
I noticed Google fixed this a few updates ago. Definitely a need qol improvement.
Actually not yet technically. So messages has had this in January at least in beta. It actually forced apple to add it into the next iOS update. But it shows how they have been dragging their feet with it for years. Half of the features they remove in iMessage when you have a android in the chat are removed to make the experience worse, this being one of them. The other is not being able to name chats and that a old messages feature.
Thats very literally what they have done. I don't know why people keep posting this sort of "Yeah but they need to establish an app" when that's exactly what they have done. "Yeah but it took them a while". Like Okay? My messages to my family are all E2E encrypted with delivery/typing indicators and all of that. And then I have to text someone with an iPhone, and it isn't.
The company of "It just works" can fix this nonsense. You either care about security or you don't. Banging that drum while pretending this is some impossible thing for them to fix is silly.
is their app the only messaging app preinstalled on Android phones these days? I remember my Galaxy S4 (I think) years ago that came with at least three different apps to send SMS alone lol
I can't believe Samsung and others don't ship their own apps?
Google Messages, with RCS in tow, is now Samsung's default messaging app in the US
After becoming the default internationally last year, Samsung has made Google Messages the default messaging app on its phones in the US.
9to5google.com
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/23227002/vpavic_220201_5008_0011.jpg)
Samsung’s Galaxy S22 phones push Google Messages and the good news of RCS
RCS has had a long and messy rollout.
www.theverge.com
The default is Google's RCS on Samsung phones now. Which is a huge portion of Android phones in general. The situation really has been improved on the messaging app front by Google. Thats why this sort of thing makes sense to push for now. If it was still as it was years ago, most could understand the apprehension to some degree.
That situation is also the reason why all the apps Google made before failed.Google Messages, with RCS in tow, is now Samsung's default messaging app in the US
After becoming the default internationally last year, Samsung has made Google Messages the default messaging app on its phones in the US.Samsung’s Galaxy S22 phones push Google Messages and the good news of RCS
RCS has had a long and messy rollout.
The default is Google's RCS on Samsung phones now. Which is a huge portion of Android phones in general. The situation really has been improved on the messaging app front by Google. Thats why this sort of thing makes sense to push for now. If it was still as it was years ago, most could understand the apprehension to some degree.
interesting, thanks. But the experience would still be just as bad if someone with an older Android phone or without the Google Messages app "enters the chat". Anyway, if there are no technical hurdles for Apple to add RCS as an additional fallback they can just do it. Messages will stay green but videos and pictures won't look like shit anymore. Nothing to loose here I guessGoogle Messages, with RCS in tow, is now Samsung's default messaging app in the US
After becoming the default internationally last year, Samsung has made Google Messages the default messaging app on its phones in the US.Samsung’s Galaxy S22 phones push Google Messages and the good news of RCS
RCS has had a long and messy rollout.
The default is Google's RCS on Samsung phones now. Which is a huge portion of Android phones in general. The situation really has been improved on the messaging app front by Google. Thats why this sort of thing makes sense to push for now. If it was still as it was years ago, most could understand the apprehension to some degree.
It's just Google messages, been that way since they adopted RCS, which is why this thread is about getting Apple to accept it as a messaging fallback standard because it is superior to SMS.
Apple users would only benefit.
Except Apple did "fix it" by offering iMessage, the same way that Google has "fixed it" by offering their own walled garden RCS implementation and app.
You can't use Googles RCS+ protocol outside of Google's app, which is fine, but demanding Apple abandon iMessage for Googles platform is weird.
I guess its a good thing nobody is asking apple to abandon iMessage then isn't it? Would you agree? People would like them to fix the fallback to RCS however. Nobody cares if they keep iMessage, nobody is trying to take that away from you, so relax.
Apple fixed nothing. iMessage is not available to people that don't buy their hardware.
The other issue is that Apple prevents 3rd party messaging apps from sending SMS messages.
That's the reason why apps like FB Messenger and Signal can send SMS messages on Android, but not on iOS (Whatsapp doesn't support sending SMS messages on either iOS or Android, to my knowledge).
That means if you're on iOS and you need to send a message to someone on an Android device (and they don't use any 3rd party apps), you're forced to use Apple's app, as it's the only one that can send a SMS message.
Which is crazy since the kids going the hardest using iPhones as status symbols are usually doing so with a used iPhone S with a cracked screen.
So they dont use RCS Universal first, which means the vast majority of folks fall back to MMS/SMS.
Except RCS fallback is a joke. Carrier implementation of RCS is quarter baked at best.
So you are actually advocating for Apple to use Googles RCS as a fallback, which again, seems weird.
Having it as a fallback means it literally doesn't matter what layer its at, as long as its at a layer before the more broad ones.
Google tries to use RCS-Google. If it fails to connect,
It uses RCS-Universal. If it fails to connect,
It uses MMS. If it fails to connect,
it hits SMS. If it fails to connect.
It fails the message send and queues up for later.
IE. If the Person isn't using RCS-Google. And their carrier supports RCS-Universal. It uses Universal. It doesn't matter if its not the first or not if it gets caught on the next layer anyways. And if Apple implemented RCS-Universal as a fallback. They would get caught on the second layer for both Android and iOS since the fallback pattern for iOS is:
Apple tries to use iMessage. If it fails to connect,
It uses MMS. If it fails to connect,
It uses SMS. If it fails to connect,
It fails the message send and queues up for later.
And sure. For a good ~40% of people they would fallback all the way to SMS. But you are literally just in favour of the statis quo becaue Apple doesn't support it. Eventually society is going to need to move on from SMS. And are Apple users such technophobes that you want society to continue using an obsolete standard that barely worked when it was introduced, 20 years from now?
People are sad as ever with these platform wars, use whatever the hell you like. I upgraded from a Samsung Galaxy S9 Plus to an iPhone 13 Pro and I want to go back to Android so bad that I miss my S9 Plus. The Android OS is so much better for me.
I understand Fallback just fine, I have trouble understanding why Apple should implement a bad fallback.
What, specifically are you asking Apple to implement? If its iMessage -> RCS-Universal -> MMS -> SMS, fine, but I argue that the VAST majority of folks arguing for Apple to adopt RCS dont understand that it actually means if iMessage fails, the message will fall back to MMS/SMS as RCS-Universal is poorly adopted today.
Not 40%, I would wager much higher. I dont actually know what percentage of Googles RCS message fallback to RCS-Universal and works when its own solution isn't available, but if the numbers were good I would assume it would be front and center on their website, but its not. I would love a citation, but can't find one.
The more functional alternative would be for Apple to route through Google's RCS servers as a fallback option, which again seems weird for other reasons.
I haven't read the whole thread to see others' responses for this, but here's my anecdote:
I was recently talking to a few people I just met in the programming / tech world about phones. I use Android, they all use iPhones. They all say that pretty much everyone they know uses iPhones, and that they hate group chatting with Android users.
One of them said that they have a group chat with their family, but one of them uses Android, ruining the whole chat. So they secretly created a new group chat that specifically excludes that family member, so they can have an iPhone only chat.
One of them said they avoid people / avoid taking to people who use Android.
I don't use iOS, so I don't know what group chatting is like on it. However, these are opinions I've read online over the years, and was surprised to actually meet people in person who expressed them.
I don't really understand the specifics of RCS and the problems with it but surely it's better than SMS?
Like, I don't understand why the average customer would be against Apple switching to RCS as a fallback. Sure, I can understand Apple the company and its shareholders (I'm one of them!) bring against it but doesn't this just benefit everyone?
Is there something I'm missing? Are there better alternatives? The only thing I can think of is Apple releasing iMessage on Android and I don't see that happening.
Like, I don't understand why the average customer would be against Apple switching to RCS as a fallback. Sure, I can understand Apple the company and its shareholders (I'm one of them!) bring against it but doesn't this just benefit everyone?
Is there something I'm missing? Are there better alternatives? The only thing I can think of is Apple releasing iMessage on Android and I don't see that happening.
Indeed. Here in Europe I've never heard of green bubble bullying. On the contrary, I know more stories of people having to defend their choice of buying an iPhone because they are so expensive.
Disclaimer: I have a midrange Android
There are plenty of expensive Android phones though. Samsung, Xiaomi, Oppo and co all have $1000+ phones. Samsung just released one for $1800. Basically this is all stupid and yeah, you can't get people in US to use another app.
I've gotten a few of my friends to install Whatsapp... and they still just chat away in iMessage most of the times.
Edit: In our group of about 10 people, I am the only one with Android. Folks are in their late 30s to mid 40s. So not teenagers. Basically a LOT of professionals use iPhones. Out of my co-workers, maybe 2-3 out of 15-20 or so use Android for personal devices.
Half of phones cannot talk to each other? That seems to not be a truism.
I hope this gets to be a bigger issue. There's no reason why someone with an iPhone can't send me a video without it being compressed to shit. I don't need to play pool or any of those other games or see reactions, just give me the damn high quality media.
If things were that simple, we'd all use Signal already.
Good luck convincing me to convert everyone to Signal, which highly depends on them being able to convert everyone they know to Signal.
If things were that simple, we'd all use Signal already.
Wait, so I can use Telegram, WhatsApp etc. to text anyone? They don't have to have the same app? I thought these things worked like Facebook Messenger.
SMS works with near universal adoption, which is more than can currently be said for RCS-Universal.
If RCS-Universal were dying on the vine but for Apple's support, sure, but in the US the carriers dont seem to care, why should anyone else?
They do, but for folks under say 30, its not really an issue, even in the US folks just communicate using their apps of choice.
lol "kids"?
a guy in our friends group was cursed out by everyone, made fun off for weeks before being kicked off our fantasy football league cause his damn green bubbles kept messing up the group chat for 11 other people while we were planning our drafts. everyone there is in their 30s 🤷♂️
he's getting a iphone14 when it comes out
Then what's the solution, stick with the status quo?
Nobody here in the US is happy about this and the only people who don't have an issue is Apple and their pocket book.
No, it's part of the GSM standard, of which both 4G and 5G are based on.
There's a bunch of legacy tech that requires SMS for critical functions, so they wouldn't drop it wholesale.
Exactly. Whole ass adults try to talk shit about me having an Android phone until I point out that my phone cost more than theirs, and that tends to persist until they see me do something random that is 100% impossible to do on a non-jailbroken iPhone. Then there's some mild flustering, they double down on their purchase, and it ends until the next person in the line of "oh you have an Android" comes in for the cycle to continue.
Do I want Apple to support industry standard protocols? Yes. And RCS is not brand new. It's older than ResetEra and supported by companies for years who are notorious for dragging their feet on everything. RCS is "backed by google" in the same way as, like HTML, ECMAScript, and CSS is backed by Google, they are members of the consortium that develops the spec.
Do I expect Apple too? Nah. Same way for why Safari is so out of date on standard web and security protocols, or why a Pixel 5 and MacBook and the expensive iPad model can share the same universal charging connector but the affordable iPad and the iPhone can't.
The campaign to get Apple to support standardized technology, whether it's 5 years old or 15 years old, is the right thing to do. And I get the financial incentive for Apple to make communication worse, or to make the web worse, or whatever, but I won't give them excuses for it, especially as the most profitable corporation on earth.
Last edited:
I'm over 30 years old and don't use reactions or care about which color a bubble is, and most of the people I text don't care either. MMS video quality is the only thing that really bugs me, as I have to tell iPhone people to send videos some other way so they don't look like they were shot on a 00's feature phone.
Not expecting Apple to cave to pressure, but it would be nice.
Not expecting Apple to cave to pressure, but it would be nice.
There's nothing that says carriers couldn't not support it anymore (even with it being part of the standard for older devices) and just go with RCS, but there's no way Apple would sign off on it, and no carrier wants to rock the Apple boat.
My mom refuses to talk on anything but, it makes things so much easier.
I wasn't talking about phones, I meant equipment that emergency services and I think some medical devices use to communicate. They're not going to turn it off until those segments see massive upgrades, which won't be for awhile.
The thing that has always confused me, and I'm really not trying to engage in wars, is that I would think that more iPhone users would want Apple to adopt RCS backup. It would put them in a position where they had to compete on the software side.
I've switched from Android to iPhone and back again on 3 separate occasions, and each time I went back to Android running. I would never shit on the iPhone experience, iOS is beautiful, smooth, less layers so a lot simpler to use, and still has the top ecosystem. But as an OS, Android is just way more functional to me, and with Microsoft and Google being chummy the gulf is only widening.
But every time I've returned to Android, every single time, the ONE thing I miss is iMessage. When we talk about Android shame in the US, what does it always come down to? iMessage. I would say iMessage IS iOS's killer feature more than anything. The thing that's so good it allows them to not compete feature-for-feature in any other area.
I would think people would want to see Apple put into a position where they have to compete, so folks don't have to pretend to be excited about getting widgets and pip...in 2022.
I've switched from Android to iPhone and back again on 3 separate occasions, and each time I went back to Android running. I would never shit on the iPhone experience, iOS is beautiful, smooth, less layers so a lot simpler to use, and still has the top ecosystem. But as an OS, Android is just way more functional to me, and with Microsoft and Google being chummy the gulf is only widening.
But every time I've returned to Android, every single time, the ONE thing I miss is iMessage. When we talk about Android shame in the US, what does it always come down to? iMessage. I would say iMessage IS iOS's killer feature more than anything. The thing that's so good it allows them to not compete feature-for-feature in any other area.
I would think people would want to see Apple put into a position where they have to compete, so folks don't have to pretend to be excited about getting widgets and pip...in 2022.
Last edited:
In theory, I am kind of on Google's side but in practice, when I look at how many opportunities Google has had to create a decent messaging client and floundered, and continues to flounder, every single opportunity and messaging client they have I don't blame Apple for ignoring them and keeping their walls up on one of the best features of their eco system.
I can't speak for you, but I dont feel bothered by SMS fallback today. It works, of course I could dial a rotary phone by clicking the receiver so I'm old.
If RCS-Universal were adopted and implemented by carriers*, sure I would expect Apple (and other vendors) to implement it. However, since RCS doesn't support E2E** it doesn't really do anything for me.
Google's RCS+ makes for a nice Android version of iMessage and I'm fine Googles walled garden living amongst all of the other walled gardens.
*Checking and all US carriers are using Googles RCS implementation and/or only let certain customers or phones us RCS. T-Mobile, Verizon, AT&T
**Nor do I expect any major carrier to advocate for E2E based RCS. Governments would actively get involved if GSM proposed and started to execute a standard revision along those lines.
Edit: I think its telling that Google hasn't release Google Messages on the iOS App Store. Since they've already built on top of the RCS standard for their implementation, they could roll that out if they wanted. . . That they dont is telling.
Last edited:
That and each carrier had their own separate messages app installed as default. Google never had the leverage to have their chat apps be the default, while Apple did. It's that simple. Everyone decrying Google's multiple failed attempts are either disingenuous or ignorant.
Also, future RCS threads could really use a mod message or something to stop the "this is only a US thing" and "lol, use Whatsapp" drive-bys. Every RCS thread devolves into this.
Last edited:
Everyone I know uses WhatsApp in the UK. The whole green vs blue thing sounds hilariously stupid to me.