Fuck that noise. I'm not downloading Apple software and you can live with my "green bubbles". It's a real good indicator of whether or not I even want to deal with your ass if that's something that matters to you...which I don't.
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The Verge: "Google tries shaming Apple into adopting RCS with #getthemessage campaign"
- Thread starter Mafro
- Start date
This is not true.
T-mobile supported in 2020, I believe AT&T in 2021. Verizon in 2021 as well.
All Three Major U.S. Carriers and Google Adopt Rich Communication Services, But No Sign of Apple Interest
For the last several years, Google has been pushing a new communications protocol called Rich Communication Services, or RCS. RCS is designed to...
www.macrumors.com
SMS is limited in spam since you aren't sending nicely designed widgets that are made for ads. But what else would I expect from a Google product :)
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Apple using SMS as the fallback for iMessage is fucking infuriating and completely undermines their ostensible privacy-first corporate ethos.
Absolutely support giving them endless shit for this.
Absolutely support giving them endless shit for this.
Ever since I switched to Android, texting my mom has become such a shore since she has an iPhone. I'm trying to convince her to just use FB messenger or any other app than iMessage because I'm sick of the complications.
The EU is pushing for interoperability between messaging platforms, and it's expect that RCS would be the protocol they require.
Just because you wouldn't, doesn't mean other people wouldn't. I guarentee you that if Apple were to drop iMessage on Android, it would shoot up to the most downloaded Android app pretty much instantly (especially in the US).
This is not true.
T-mobile supported in 2020, I believe AT&T in 2021. Verizon in 2021 as well.
All Three Major U.S. Carriers and Google Adopt Rich Communication Services, But No Sign of Apple Interest
For the last several years, Google has been pushing a new communications protocol called Rich Communication Services, or RCS. RCS is designed to...
That's when Google convinced US carriers to use their implementation of RCS.
RCS as a protocol has been around since 2007.
Well RCS as a protocol was useless until carriers agreed to it, no? So how is my original statement wrong?
iMessage and FaceTime are definitely why I switched back to iPhone after years of buying Nexus / Pixel phones.
Google being an ad company and Apple letting me block sharing info with apps is probably the other biggest reason.
Google being an ad company and Apple letting me block sharing info with apps is probably the other biggest reason.
Ok yeah, I thought I heard about that but wasn't sure if RCS was likely to be the favored "framework", if you will.
"SMS is better because the spam isn't formatted even if it's objectively worse and less private"This is not true.
T-mobile supported in 2020, I believe AT&T in 2021. Verizon in 2021 as well.
All Three Major U.S. Carriers and Google Adopt Rich Communication Services, But No Sign of Apple Interest
For the last several years, Google has been pushing a new communications protocol called Rich Communication Services, or RCS. RCS is designed to...
SMS is limited in spam since you aren't sending nicely designed widgets that are made for ads. But what else would I expect from a Google product :)
I guess it's because I don't have kids old enough to have their own phones, but this is the first I've heard of Green Bubble Bullying.
I don't look forward to them getting to middle school when we may give them phone...
Because RCS is just as obsolete for messaging as SMS. People use P2P clients to communicate and are thus independent of any providers. SMS is nowadays mainly used to receive automated texts for advertising purposes or to inform their users.
RCS is overseen by the GSMA, which is a worldwide organization compromised of over 750 mobile network operators.
If there was a protocol that was going to be supported by the EU, it would be RCS.
Pretty much all of the EU network operators are part of the GSMA, as are the US networks.
Outside of the US, sure, here in the US, not so much.
SMS still has a sizeable stake and carriers still have a lot of control regarding their networks.
They should think about it this way. When they implement RCS into their iMessage, people outside the US would maybe start using iMessage more and they could apply pressure on WhatsApp.
I'd love for a messenger to become standard that doesn't compress 100mbps videos to around 0,3mbps. Same with photos.
Right now I don't even use iMessage for communication with iPhone users, cause nobody wants to use multiple messengers. Instead I make private uploads to YouTube and send the links.
I'd love for a messenger to become standard that doesn't compress 100mbps videos to around 0,3mbps. Same with photos.
Right now I don't even use iMessage for communication with iPhone users, cause nobody wants to use multiple messengers. Instead I make private uploads to YouTube and send the links.
This feels like more of a problem in America than the rest of the world tbh. Over here (and many parts of the world) as much as I hate Facebook, I literally cannot connect with any of my family without WhatsApp. Its convenient too as switching ecosystems is less of a pain in the ass.
Apple knows exactly what it has with iMessage(peer-pressure based lock-in) and isn't likely to willingly give it up.
Except a lot of Android users ARE actually doing it for the cheap phones and can't actually be arsed to download an app just for messaging when they can just use the messaging app that comes with the phone. Like basically all my extended family either buys the oldest, cheapest iPhone or a new but cheap Android. They MIGHT download Facebook, but mostly just call/text on the thing.
Like, it's not cool to "bully" people because of the green bubble, but a lot of people buying Androids ARE doing it because they want the bare minimum like the stereotype suggests. I've always had a high-mid to top-tier Android phone, but in my circles, I'm the exception. It's either dirt cheap Androids that aren't really used or iPhones...which are also probably not used that much.
RCS isn't a modern standard and shouldn't be adopted in any way by Apple.
View: https://twitter.com/RonAmadeo/status/1480679515298934786?t=SOL64xJlHhFR00X2BBy_OQ&s=19
View: https://twitter.com/RonAmadeo/status/1480679860381138947
View: https://twitter.com/RonAmadeo/status/1480741867344076803
View: https://twitter.com/RonAmadeo/status/1480679515298934786?t=SOL64xJlHhFR00X2BBy_OQ&s=19
View: https://twitter.com/RonAmadeo/status/1480679860381138947
View: https://twitter.com/RonAmadeo/status/1480741867344076803
SMS is limited in spam since you aren't sending nicely designed widgets that are made for ads. But what else would I expect from a Google product :)
Eh at least you can tell it's an ad right away instead of some cryptic link that I have to continue to remind my parents to never click on. I don't see that as worse than SMS spam.
I bet this is Dieter's doing! Fighting the good fight, from within Google!
Heh it probably is.
Apple should definitely adopt RCS as a fallback from iMessage! No reason not to.
Also this!
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That's a fair point and I could definitely see the benefit for people less tech literate. For me personally, I would prefer not to have that be an option to my phone. I already deal with it through Email, I don't need it in my Messages.
It also kind of hurts that it comes from a verified "business" account. Which might actually be worse for people like your parents.
Neither is SMS and that's a large portion of the point. IF they are going to fall back on something when NOT using iMessage, it could AT LEAST be RCS INSTEAD of SMS.
Is an all-internet solution better? Yeah, but if they're gonna use a lesser solution, they could do better than a technology that was archaic over a decade ago.
Well it's not like most people's email adresses aren't also controlled by massive companies already.
You know, I don't really care about the bubble situation at all, what I do care about is the huge hassle of text groups breaking when one person shifts from Apple to android. It's happened multiple times and it just breaks a text thread. New threads with the same number popping up, etc etc. even following all the instructions to turn off iMessage beforehand!
Fix that shit, Apple.
Fix that shit, Apple.
Plenty of reasons not to. It's competing with their solution.
Not really understanding the argument here.
Email identity VS. Carrier Idetity... Bruh people just want to send pics and videos.
At no point is anyone asking Apple to give up iMessage. What's being asked is for Apple to replace SMS as the fallback for if an iMessage fails to go through, or is sent to a non-Apple device and use a more modern protocol.
That's it. iMessage will still be iMessage and work exactly the same.
It very much is a US problem as the chat platform that would fill the roll that Whatsapp uses in the US is iMessage and that's vendor locked to one platform.
If it's not the carriers having a say, it's going to be another company.
There has to be a universal protocol that works on every phone, regardless of where you are in the world and works with every network.
That's the biggest reason SMS has hung on for so long. It's 100% compatible with every carrier in the world. There's costs involved, but if I know a person's cell phone number, I can send them a SMS anywhere in the world from my phone.
Here in the US, it's the only messaging protocol that works on both iOS and Android right out of the box.
The issue with apps like FB Messenger, Whatsapps, Kakaotalk, etc is that you need an account to use them. That's going to be a massive limitation for a fully universal messaging platform.
Carriers are always going to have a say in something like this, after all, it's their networks that we're connecting to, whether it be a cellular based chat protocol like SMS or an IP based protocol like RCS, or the various internet based chat programs like Whatsapp.
Exactly.
I don't think people realize just how old SMS is. It was developed in 1986. It was originally designed to only support 160 characters. It's been stretched way, way passed the point of it's original purpose.
Think about that. We're still using a messaging protocol that was developed when Ronald Regan was starting his second term in office.
That would be like still using VHS tapes today.
It's actually not.
RCS isn't a replacement for iMessage, it's a replacement for SMS (which needed to be replaced a long as time ago).
I think if you asked Apple, they'd say iMessage is the replacement for SMS.
It's not, because you can't send an iMessage to someone who doesn't have an Apple device.
SMS is universal, it works on every phone, regardless of the carrier. The issue is that it's horribly outdated.
RCS was designed to be a universal chat protocol that works on every carrier and has more modern features, that's it.
The "Green bubble" discourse and generally poor experience when they are present is a core part of the peer pressure.
It's not a replacement for SMS if it's not available to everyone.
None, as stated before P2P messaging is the Standard for 15 years and there is a reason why WeChat, Telegram or WhatsApp doesn't care at all that iMessage is a walled garden.
Right, so if the new fallback of RCS allows similar modern features to iMessage and also allows users to communicate with Non-Apple devices, how does that benefit Apple? They want you to use their devices.
So folks w/o carrier service can't share pictures? I can use iMessage on multiple devices w/o carrier service, works great.
Other than pictures and videos I'm not sure what problems RCS solves for end users, which is a big deal I concur. Its not encryption as that is not built into the standard and is app implementation specific.
Though I would find it funny to see Apple build an RCS implementation to sit under iMessage as a point to route around Google owning RCS.
Nice to that everyone has to suffer with shitty messaging because of Apple's financials.
These are companies, man. They will do what's best for them, not us.
Barring any EU regulations, I suspect RCS will never come to iOS.
Google routes RCS through their own servers. If Apple support RCS officially via carrier implementation or their own, would things still fall back to SMS?
I know roaming is supposed to be a feature of RCS, but I have no idea if the implementation is suspect.
I was referring more to carrier adoption, not so much end-user adoption, sorry for not being clear. It seems carriers have largely adopted it, but as you said end-users predominately use other apps like you listed.
Another thread about Americans being unable to download messenger apps like the rest of the world and then trying to fuck up everything for everyone else by forcing them to use their inferior solution, great.
Also, Google can shut the f up. They built like 20 different, competing messaging systems, threw them away, and now complain that their solution sucks. Guess who's responsible for that.
Running to the carriers is not the solution.
Also, Google can shut the f up. They built like 20 different, competing messaging systems, threw them away, and now complain that their solution sucks. Guess who's responsible for that.
Running to the carriers is not the solution.
Apple today weaponizd their users in the US far before. The green bubbles have essentially been Apple's way to intuitively signal to even non-tech savvy people that the green bubbles are the cause of all your problems by using SMS and losing features.
I've totally had a completely lack of empathy from even friends and family members who are all Apple and refuse to use any other messaging app, which makes it even worse since I have poor cell service where I live and while regular SMS and calls are fine, group texts use data/MMS which mean I can't get them a lot of the time and I get blamed for it.
I can find an Android work around for every other problem that doesn't require me to buy an iPhone to fix but this is the one thing where I can't because it requires other people to use another app for group messaging so I'm the asshole because I just don't get an iPhone. in recent years, more people have started to use other apps for specific group chats with specific groups of people in my experience, but it hasn't changed how people group message with awkward large group texts that are fun for no one being the default.
Apple adopting RCS would really solve so many problems. They can keep iMessage functioning they way they want and other phone manufacturers can use a universal standard.
I've totally had a completely lack of empathy from even friends and family members who are all Apple and refuse to use any other messaging app, which makes it even worse since I have poor cell service where I live and while regular SMS and calls are fine, group texts use data/MMS which mean I can't get them a lot of the time and I get blamed for it.
I can find an Android work around for every other problem that doesn't require me to buy an iPhone to fix but this is the one thing where I can't because it requires other people to use another app for group messaging so I'm the asshole because I just don't get an iPhone. in recent years, more people have started to use other apps for specific group chats with specific groups of people in my experience, but it hasn't changed how people group message with awkward large group texts that are fun for no one being the default.
Apple adopting RCS would really solve so many problems. They can keep iMessage functioning they way they want and other phone manufacturers can use a universal standard.
You say prefer as though iPhone users really have much choice in the matter or don't just go with whatever their device (iPhone, of course) uses. That's not preference. On anything running Android you're either running the stock app or... the stock app for your vendor (often Samsung) which is just another messaging app that resembles the standard Android Messages app and maybe has some extra features or customization or decides to break in its own fun ways. Watching some users around me have to go from the Samsung messaging app to the Android one was rather eye-opening in how people just don't give a rat's ass most of the time.
Vast? 60% versus 40% (and that's being generous because it varies a bit year to year) is vast? No, you've got essentially half of the US cell phone population unable to communicate with other, all because their singular device and OS OEM has decided they want to use the stupidest thing to lock-in their users, because their users can't be bothered to spend a couple of minutes learning a new thing. I had to try really, really hard not to type sheep in there, somewhere, because I don't honestly believe it in the context its usually used, but...
Can someone explain to me why Apple should be "forced" to use Google's solution for RCS?
If you aren't, RCS as it stands now is a shit show between carries. A quick perusal indicates that US carriers do not universally support RCS yet. I'm looking at one who only offers RCS on certain postpaid plans only. So nothing on Mint, Cricket, or Visible.
Are you folks demanding that people stop using WhatsApp, Signal, ect? Because thats effectively what you are doing if you argue that only Google's RCS solution should be used. . .
and as a former user of several of Googles now retired messaging products. No Thank you.
If you aren't, RCS as it stands now is a shit show between carries. A quick perusal indicates that US carriers do not universally support RCS yet. I'm looking at one who only offers RCS on certain postpaid plans only. So nothing on Mint, Cricket, or Visible.
Are you folks demanding that people stop using WhatsApp, Signal, ect? Because thats effectively what you are doing if you argue that only Google's RCS solution should be used. . .
and as a former user of several of Googles now retired messaging products. No Thank you.