The Verge: "Google tries shaming Apple into adopting RCS with #getthemessage campaign"

trashbandit · Aug 10, 2022

Having an android is definitely disruptive when most of the people you know have iPhones. Like, emojis in group chats get transliterated to words, and reactions sometimes work and sometimes don't. I can't say I've literally been bullied for using an android, but it never feels good to be the odd one out causing weird communication issues. Apple can keep labeling me in green for all I care, I just wish they'd do the backend work to make android to iOS a smoother experience.

Royalan · Aug 10, 2022

JimD said:
The vast, and I mean VAST, majority of people in the US have iPhones and use iMessage exclusively. Like you can't argue that people should just use WhatsApp or Signal when that ship has already sailed. Those apps have been around for years and gained no traction in the US.

The green bubble thing is absolutely real. And not even just kids being petty. I know a bunch of grown ass adults in their 30s and 40s who will exclude friends from group chats if they have an Android. Nobody wants the horribly compressed video or complaints about reactions coming through as additional texts.

Yep, unfortunately. And Apple knows this.

But while it's true iPhone is the dominant OS, Android is not far behind.

Royalan · Aug 10, 2022

Extra Sauce said:
imagine shaming someone for using the device/OS preferred by a majority of IT professionals.

source: been working in IT for over 20 years. I adore my iPad Pro but my peers have always shit on Apple products.

The latest implementation of RCS has end-to-end encryption.

Big Boss · Aug 10, 2022

The less green bubbles the better 🤮

Giant Panda · Aug 10, 2022

vixolus said:
It can be that bad yeah. I switched to an iPhone because i wanted to try it out with getting an M1 Air for school after being Android for like 12 years. Nice to have iMessage with the family finally, and Facetime.

I will not lie though I did do it in part for the dating scene. There's a real stigma against green bubbles. It's petty and I wouldn't have a problem seeing it pop up, but it's real. Not as easy to share media over text, no built in FaceTime, Group text handling, etc.

Would you really want to date anyone that cares about green bubbles? That's a huge red flag in a potential partner.

jokkir · Aug 10, 2022

Good. Fuck Apple and they need to adopt it. It doesn't mean they get rid of iMessage but they need to make stuff they mention in the article (eg low resolution images) to be fixed. It's stupid and they're not fixing it on purpose.

behOemoth · Aug 10, 2022

vixolus said:
But yes it's primarily for branding. Apple could easily make iMessage for Android if they wanted but its a very strong pull to the ecosystem.

In the US only though. Everyone else is using different messengers. Apple should compete here.

wenis · Aug 10, 2022

Just so silly can't help but laugh

vixolus · Aug 10, 2022

Giant Panda said:
Would you really want to date anyone that cares about green bubbles? That's a huge red flag in a potential partner.

Oh I know. Its not that its like a deal breaker thing its just like… the way it goes. If you want to video call your partner/someone you're talking to it's way easier to do it via integrated FaceTime than be like hey can you download Google Duo for me and create a Google account if you don't have one already?

With dating apps and shit nowadays the most trivial shit seems to matter ngl

Arttemis · Aug 10, 2022

Apple and their proprietary bullshit doesn't need a defense force. No company does. These decisions aren't benefiting anyone.

Fliesen · Aug 10, 2022

OrangeNova said:
It's better than SMS which apple forces users to use when interacting between Apple and any other OS.

i haven't sent an SMS in ... years, i think.
Apple doesn't force anyone to use iMessage. You can use Signal, WhatsApp, FB Messenger, whatever.

Ambitious said:
Using iMessage sounds like a shitty experience. Good thing people around here (EU) use real messengers instead of this weird-ass SMS hybrid.

it's quite literally the opposite. it's incredibly easy. Can be done from an iPad (i.e. "old folks' computer") over wifi, doesn't actually necessitate an iPhone OR a cellular plan. Photos and Videos are delivered in their original quality (and aren't compressed to all hell, as they are in WhatsApp)

Ultryx · Aug 10, 2022

This isn't cringe. Apple is a piece of shit when it comes to this stuff. They should be drug across the coals.

OrangeNova · Aug 10, 2022

Fliesen said:
i haven't sent an SMS in ... years, i think.
Apple doesn't force anyone to use iMessage. You can use Signal, WhatsApp, FB Messenger, whatever.

I don't want to use a 3rd party app?

I have perfectly functioning messaging in RCS in the default messaging app, that way my Data isn't being sold off to facebook for the majority of those, and I don't have to convince my family/friends to also install them.

SigSig · Aug 10, 2022

Apple should definitely adopt RCS, but the optics of this is the same as the forced switch to USB C.
on paper, one is the open standard, one the proprietary weirdo. in reality, we've gone through four different connectors on the USB side of things and a million different messaging apps on Android while Apple users just keep using the same. it's a hard sell and this probably won't convince people either.

dstarMDA · Aug 10, 2022

LewieP said:
Latter seems like the better option, Apple software on non-Apple devices is always a recipe for disaster. Back when you needed to use iTunes to manage files on iOS devices, I eventually resorted to a VM just for iTunes to avoid it screwing with my Windows PC.

Apple Music works fine on Android.

Nateo · Aug 10, 2022

linkboy · Aug 10, 2022

Fliesen said:
i haven't sent an SMS in ... years, i think.
Apple doesn't force anyone to use iMessage. You can use Signal, WhatsApp, FB Messenger, whatever.

The issue, at this point, is convincing people in the US on iPhones to move to something other then iMessage.

iMessage has been around for a decade, it's the default messaging platform on the top selling phone brand in the US. The time for something like Whatsapp to become the default messaging platform in the US isn't 2022, it was 10 years ago.

Nateo said:
Pretty sure Android has the higher majority.

Worldwide yes, in the US, no.

Nateo · Aug 10, 2022

linkboy said:
The issue, at this point, is convincing people in the US on iPhones to move to something other then iMessage.

iMessage has been around for a decade, it's the default messaging platform on the top selling phone brand in the US. The time for something like Whatsapp to become the default messaging platform in the US isn't 2022, it was 10 years ago.

Worldwide yes, in the US, no.

Yeah I messed it up with World Wide Android is far higher.

Fisty · Aug 10, 2022

As usual it's going to take legal action for Apple to change anything lol

Carn · Aug 10, 2022

Plasma said:
Everyone I know in the UK uses WhatsApp anyway.

Same here in The Netherlands. Either that or Signal. Even if you have an iPhone, basically no one uses iMessage

Fliesen · Aug 10, 2022

linkboy said:
The issue, at this point, is convincing people in the US on iPhones to move to something other then iMessage.

iMessage has been around for a decade, it's the default messaging platform on the top selling phone brand in the US. The time for something like Whatsapp to become the default messaging platform in the US isn't 2022, it was 10 years ago.

To be fair (and cmiiw on this) - if Google had not tried to also make their proprietary app happen (Google Talk, Allo, Hangouts, whatever) for a good part of that decade, and had instead pushed RCS sooner, the pressure on Apple would have been much larger, and their "We're adhering to the standard, Apple is being shitty for pushing their proprietary (and locked down) protocol" would have rung much less hollow / hypocritical 🤔

The Situation in the US is so weird. Here in Austria, WhatsApp is so ubiquitous that i even have WhatsApp groups with folks that are all iPhone users. And that only will send me an iMessage if i ask for Photos or Videos in full resolution 😅

digitalrelic · Aug 10, 2022

Apple will never bring iMessage to Android, but there's really no reason for them not to adopt RCS.

Royalan · Aug 10, 2022

linkboy said:
The issue, at this point, is convincing people in the US on iPhones to move to something other then iMessage.

iMessage has been around for a decade, it's the default messaging platform on the top selling phone brand in the US. The time for something like Whatsapp to become the default messaging platform in the US isn't 2022, it was 10 years ago.

The issue isn't iPhone users; they can stay on iMessage just fine. RCS isn't a competing platform, it's a standard. It's essentially the successor to SMS/MMS.

Apple refusing to fall back to RCS instead of SMS at this point would be like Verizon throttling my internet speeds to 56k whenever I used a service owned by Comcast.

captive · Aug 10, 2022

Mafro said:
Google tries publicly shaming Apple into adopting RCS

Google wants Apple to #GetTheMessage.

www.theverge.com

This is pretty cringe. Google have made an entire website consisting of draft tweets and links to articles from various publications about Google's frustrations with Apple not adopting the RCS messaging standard.

As someone outside America that's been happily using WhatsApp for years to talk to friends cross-platform, this whole situation always seems weird to me. Why is it such a US-centric problem? Is the "peer pressure" and "bullying" towards green bubbles really that bad?

It's not cringe at all. Imessage is fucking garbage. Despite me telling Apple I don't have an iPhone anymore and disabling all that stuff when I switched. People sending group texts I never got for like 2 years cause their phones thought I was still on imessage.
That's kind of a big deal.

Connope · Aug 10, 2022

Plasma said:
Everyone I know in the UK uses WhatsApp anyway.

Can I ask how old you are? I always see people on the internet saying this but it isn't my experience in real life at all. Everyone's always just used Facebook Messenger. I didn't even have WhatsApp until I moved to the Netherlands for a year a few years ago, and now I only use it with people who aren't from the UK. Lots of people use Snapchat or Instagram too, but no one uses WhatsApp.

Hellsing321 · Aug 10, 2022

The only way I see Apple implementing RCS is if Google convinces Cellular providers to drop SMS in favor of RCS.

SwampBastard · Aug 10, 2022

Until Apple adopts RCS, they need to STFU about valuing their users' privacy. This is a gaping, intentional hole in the privacy/security they provide to their users. They need to be more honest and say that they take your privacy seriously on the condition that you are messaging with another one of their customers, and not the 80% of global smartphone users who use Android.

I bought an iPhone 13 Mini in January of this year. It was my first iPhone in 6-7 years. I used it for about four months before going back to my old Pixel 4. I actively used iMessage the entire time I had the iPhone, including syncing messages with my MacBook, and I just don't understand the hype. It's obviously better than SMS, but really inferior to most modern messaging platforms. I definitely didn't find it compelling enough to be a lock-in mechanism for the platform.

-Pyromaniac- said:
RCS is only encrypted if you're using google messenger app. And BOTH parties have to be using it. And zero group chats are encrypted. There's probably other shit too.

You don't think these things could be improved if Apple decided to implement it? Hell, let them take credit for joining the party and improving the security standards. Them throwing their weight behind these new standards helps improve and validate them. Look at how much more ubiquitous contactless payments became in the US after Apple decided to implement NFC payments a few years after Android added it.

JimD said:
The vast, and I mean VAST, majority of people in the US have iPhones and use iMessage exclusively.

This is absolutely not true. They have a fairly slim majority in the US (like 55/45 the last time I checked).

mztik · Aug 10, 2022

Apple should just implement RCS and move on.

Green bubble shaming -- people are fucking insane.

disparate · Aug 10, 2022

disparate said:
I don't think anyone, including Google are suggesting iOS use RCS instead of iMessage, rather that iOS simply falls back to RCS if the other user doesn't have it instead of falling back to SMS and MMS. This doesn't seem like it's unreasonable position to take and I would argue it's the objectively correct position to take.

Deleted member 93062 · Aug 10, 2022

I was kind of surprised at just how new RCS is. Also the fact that it's not end-to-end encrypted by default, you need to use Google Messages app on both sides of the conversation for it. It also doesn't have E2E encryption for group chats. Also it has support for ads?

Google disables RCS ads in India following rampant spam

Rich Communication Services is the collective effort of industry players to supercharge the traditional SMS with modern features like richer texts and E2E encryption.

techcrunch.com

I think Apple should definitely support RCS when its matured enough but Google can cry me a river because they failed to create an iMessage alternative for years and had like 10 different messaging apps.

linkboy · Aug 10, 2022

Nateo said:
Yeah I messed it up with World Wide Android is far higher.

Worldwide though doesn't suffer from this problem, as it's pretty much been solved with apps like Whatsapp, Kakaotalk, Line, etc.

The issue with the US is that the messaging platform that would fill the Whatsapp role (iMessage) in the US is vendor locked to one platform (Apple). The market is being restricted by Apple in order to force people to their ecosystem (it's why there isn't a version of iMessage for Android).

Fliesen said:
To be fair (and cmiiw on this) - if Google had not tried to also make their proprietary app happen (Google Talk, Allo, Hangouts, whatever) and had instead pushed RCS sooner, the pressure on Apple would have been much larger, and their "We're adhering to the standard, Apple is being shitty for pushing their proprietary (and locked down) protocol" would have rung much less hollow / hypocritical 🤔

The issue was that RCS wasn't ready to roll out in 2011, when Apple released iMessage. To be fair, it still isn't. Google's implementation of it is, which is what Google is pushing for.

Royalan said:
The issue isn't iPhone users; they can stay on iMessage just fine. RCS isn't a competing platform, it's a standard. It's essentially the successor to SMS/MMS.

Apple refusing to fall back to RCS instead of SMS at this point would be like Verizon throttling my internet speeds to 56k whenever I used a service owned by Comcast.

I know. My point was that Apple isn't implementing it because they're using iMessage as a way to lock people into their platform.

Hellsing321 said:
The only way I see Apple implementing RCS is if Google convinces Cellular providers to drop SMS in favor of RCS.

SMS is part of the GSM standard (which is the technology that 4G and 5G networks are built upon). it's not something that Google, Apple or any cell phone provider has control over.

disparate · Aug 10, 2022

Sullivan said:
I was kind of surprised at just how new RCS is. Also the fact that it's not end-to-end encrypted by default, you need to use Google Messages app on both sides of the conversation for it. It also doesn't have E2E encryption for group chats. Also it has support for ads?

Google disables RCS ads in India following rampant spam

Rich Communication Services is the collective effort of industry players to supercharge the traditional SMS with modern features like richer texts and E2E encryption.

techcrunch.com

I think Apple should definitely support RCS when its matured enough but Google can cry me a river because they failed to create an iMessage alternative for years and had like 10 different messaging apps.

You're not really explaining why iMessage continues to fail by FALLING BACK TO SMS instead of RCS.

reKon · Aug 10, 2022

Anyone who comes into this thread and says this is stupid really doesn't understand what Google is asking for here.

This has nothing to do with replacing iMessage as a primary way of communication.

It's a request for Apple to adopt a standard to replace SMS. This means that messages sent to someone not using iMessage would backdrop to RCS instead of SMS, which would provide a significantly better texting experience than using SMS for both users. It would also be significantly more secure.

Understandable Apple wants to keep any competitive advantage they have, even if it makes the experience worse for their own users through proprietary methods.

Deleted member 93062 · Aug 10, 2022

disparate said:
You're not really explaining why iMessage continues to fail by FALLING BACK TO SMS instead of RCS.

RCS only recently got supported by all American carriers, it's still not supported by a lot of worldwide carriers. You want Apple to support a brand new service that's backed by Google that has had teething problems in such a short time frame?

Royalan · Aug 10, 2022

Sullivan said:
I think Apple should definitely support RCS when its matured enough but Google can cry me a river because they failed to create an iMessage alternative for years and had like 10 different messaging apps.

Google has created 173,528 iMessage alternatives, and I would argue that 173,527 of them were better than iMessage, and I say that as a user of both platforms.

The problem is Apple had the leverage to strong-arm carriers into adopting iMessage functionality from very early on; Google did not.

808s & Villainy · Aug 10, 2022

iPhone owners making big deals out of bubble colors is embarrassing and cringy

disparate · Aug 10, 2022

Sullivan said:
RCS only recently got supported by all American carriers, it's still not supported by a lot of worldwide carriers. You want Apple to support a brand new service that's backed by Google that has had teething problems in such a short time frame?

Yes, they can afford it.

linkboy · Aug 10, 2022

Sullivan said:
I think Apple should definitely support RCS when its matured enough but Google can cry me a river because they failed to create an iMessage alternative for years and had like 10 different messaging apps.

It doesn't matter how many times Google has tried and failed to come up with a messaging platform.

As long as Apple refuses to support anything other then SMS as a fallback for iMessage, nothing is going to change in this regard.

Google could come up with a chat program that paid Android users $20 per character and it still wouldn't change the fact that messaging between an Android device and an iPhone is broken mess, and will continue to be a broken mess as long as we're continuing to use a protocol that was developed in 1986 and only initially supported 160 characters.

Deleted member 93062 · Aug 10, 2022

Royalan said:
Google has created 173,528 iMessage alternatives, and I would argue that 173,527 of them were better than iMessage, and I say that as a user of both platforms.

The problem is Apple had the leverage to strong-arm carriers into adopting iMessage functionality from very early on; Google did not.

Apple didn't strong-arm any carriers? iMessage doesn't require carriers like RCS does...

reKon · Aug 10, 2022

Sullivan said:
RCS only recently got supported by all American carriers, it's still not supported by a lot of worldwide carriers. You want Apple to support a brand new service that's backed by Google that has had teething problems in such a short time frame?

Do you think that Apple has communicated anything to Google on this front?

They reached out stating that they're willingly to work them to help the standard get adopted. If this was an issue bought up by Apple, we would have known by now.

We all know why Apple does not care to do anything.

Deleted member 93062 · Aug 10, 2022

disparate said:
Yes, they can afford it.

Sure, but what about issues of Google storing a bunch of iPhone users messages in their servers and having control over them?

Why would Apple, a company who prides themselves on privacy, ever agree to that?

disparate · Aug 10, 2022

Sullivan said:
Sure, but what about issues of Google storing a bunch of iPhone users messages in their servers and having control over them?

Why would Apple, a company who prides themselves on privacy, ever agree to that?

Because it's safer than SMS? Are you under the impression that SMS messages are somehow safer?

Wrexis · Aug 10, 2022

Sullivan said:
You want Apple to support a brand new service that's backed by Google that has had teething problems in such a short time frame?

RCS has been around for 10 years and has had support in the US on a number of carriers for 6-7 years.

Deleted member 93062 · Aug 10, 2022

disparate said:
Because it's safer than SMS? Are you under the impression that SMS messages are somehow safer?

No, and I said that they should adopt it whenever its mature. If they're having an issue with people spamming ads with RCS, why would I want that?

Ambient80 · Aug 10, 2022

While I don't disagree that Apple should support it, I have to imagine that if Apple has any response at all it will amount to "lol okay 🙄"

Regulators, on the other hand, maybe will push toward forcing adoption if it truly becomes a widely used standard. What is RCS adoption like in the EU?

disparate · Aug 10, 2022

Sullivan said:
No, and I said that they should adopt it whenever its mature. If they're having an issue with people spamming ads with RCS, why would I want that?

SMS already facilitates spam, not a good enough excuse to not use RCS as a fallback :)

reKon · Aug 10, 2022

Sullivan said:
Sure, but what about issues of Google storing a bunch of iPhone users messages in their servers and having control over them?

Why would Apple, a company who prides themselves on privacy, ever agree to that?

The current backdrop from iMessage is to SMS. Think about that for a second and then re-read your own post.

Kazooie · Aug 10, 2022

They are right though.

Deleted member 4212 · Aug 10, 2022

JimD said:
The vast, and I mean VAST, majority of people in the US have iPhones and use iMessage exclusively. Like you can't argue that people should just use WhatsApp or Signal when that ship has already sailed. Those apps have been around for years and gained no traction in the US.

It's like 55% iOS and 44% android in the US. And iOS is trending down.

Metanoia Prime · Aug 10, 2022

Meauxse said:
No different to me than utilizing existing standards like USB c and choosing to use a non standard to corner the market. I have no problem with this "shaming" at all, no matter how cringe.

Yeah, what a fail of an OP comment.

The Verge: "Google tries shaming Apple into adopting RCS with #getthemessage campaign"

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