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Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,901
www.nytimes.com

The Vaccine Had to Be Used. He Used It. He Was Fired. (Published 2021)

Ten doses of the Covid-19 vaccine would expire within hours, so a Houston doctor gave it to people with medical conditions, including his wife. What followed was “the lowest moment in my life,” Dr. Hasan Gokal said.
The Texas doctor had six hours. Now that a vial of Covid-19 vaccine had been opened on this late December night, he had to find 10 eligible people for its remaining doses before the precious medicine expired. In six hours.
Scrambling, the doctor made house calls and directed people to his home outside Houston. Some were acquaintances; others, strangers. A bed-bound nonagenarian. A woman in her 80s with dementia. A mother with a child who uses a ventilator.
After midnight, and with just minutes before the vaccine became unusable, the doctor, Hasan Gokal, gave the last dose to his wife, who has a pulmonary disease that leaves her short of breath.
For his actions, Dr. Gokal was fired from his government job and then charged with stealing 10 vaccine doses worth a total of $135 — a shun-worthy misdemeanor that sent his name and mug shot rocketing around the globe.
"It was my world coming down," Dr. Gokal said in a telephone interview on Friday. "To have everything collapse on you. God, it was the lowest moment in my life."
I'm getting pretty fucking frustrated reading about vaccines getting wasted. This guy is a hero.

mod edit: Please read entire article before posting. He didn't open the vial, it was opened by a nurse for a late-arriving eligible patient, he cleared his intention to get the remaining doses to other vulnerable people with a state health official.
 
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Squarehard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
25,831
"Get vaccines out faster."

"No!"

"Okay, well, I'm going to use them to help others or else they'll expire and go to waste."

"No!"
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,705
this...makes me genuinely angry

Fuck whoever made this call.

Reading the whole article now, I'm really hoping there is some secretly good reason to not give out vaccines, but if it's just because they didn't pay for them or some shit, fuck these people so hard
 
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Dalek

Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,901
Don't forget this part.
Several days later, the doctor said, that supervisor and the human resources director summoned him to ask whether he had administered 10 doses outside of the scheduled event on Dec. 29. He said he had, in keeping with guidelines not to waste the vaccine — and was promptly fired.

The officials maintained that he had violated protocol and should have returned the remaining doses to the office or thrown them away, the doctor recalled. He also said that one of the officials startled him by questioning the lack of "equity" among those he had vaccinated.

"Are you suggesting that there were too many Indian names in that group?" Dr. Gokal said he asked.

Exactly, he said he was told.
 

Azerare

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,713
So they want the vaccines to expire? If he found recipients he's only helping out the situation. Hopefully he finds a better place to work or gets a nice lawsuit going.
 

Codeblue

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,841
Stuff surrounding the vaccine roll out has been tremendously weird. Like, I understand that we can't have docs and pharmacists vaccinating their families over priority groups, but surely there's a better way to handle these situations than to implement a policy where you're tossing valuable doses in the trash.
 

CelestialAtom

Mambo Number PS5
Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,038
Jesus Christ, this is fucking enraging you read. That man did the right thing and did not deserve to be fired.
 

neoak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,260
Absolutely disgusting what they did to him for making sure no dose was wasted.
 

Tuppen

Member
Nov 28, 2017
2,052
No vaccine should be wasted. It seems a bit convenient though that he couldn't find someone other than his wife to get the last dose.
 

kVH2LpZd

Member
Apr 3, 2019
954
Why did he open the vial before having the patients lined up? Sounds a bit fishy.

"Hey, lets drive our whole family and one regular patient into the middle of nowhere, and then open the vial....."
 

Valiant

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,310
Why did he open the vial before having the patients lined up? Sounds a bit fishy.

"Hey, lets drive our whole family and one regular patient into the middle of nowhere, and then open the vial....."

What?

Around 6:45 at night, as the event wound down, an eligible person arrived for a shot. A nurse punctured a new vial to administer the vaccine, which activated the six-hour time limit for the 10 remaining doses.

READ 👏 THE 👏 ARTICLES 👏 IF 👏 YOU 👏 HAVE 👏 QUESTIONS 👏 PEOPLE
 
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Dalek

Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,901
Each vial contains 10 doses.

Once the vial is opened it must be used or discarded after a short time.

If you open a vial and administer only one dose then that means 9 doses will be thrown out.
 

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,816
It sounds like from what the article describes the vaccines come in packs of 10? So when one last person showed up to the vaccination event they had to open up a new pack just for the one person?
It's the same container, and it has enough of the vaccine for 10 doses.
https%3A%2F%2Fd1e00ek4ebabms.cloudfront.net%2Fproduction%2F03aa2131-5ffe-4c02-b5e3-2484275deeec.jpg

So each one of those vials would be good for 10 shots of the vaccine.

(I don't know if this was the Pfizer one, btw, just the first stock image I found)
 

Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
10,009
Sometimes I think this extremely strict vaccine prioritization thing we're doing in the US with these appointments and only 1 very specific population group being vaccinated at a time is actually worse than just first come first serve. But Im sure I'm wrong. idk dick about this stuff.
 

dennett316

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,979
Blackpool, UK
Why not just have the guy pay for the doses out of pocket and work an extra shift or something? Why jump to firing him over something so trivial? Seems like someone higher up was looking for an excuse to get rid of someone they didn't like, and jumped at this. It's disgraceful, he should be applauded for not wasting precious vaccine, not fired. Hope he sues them if he's able.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,040
Can Biden pass a federal law that prohibits wasting vaccine to sidestep fuckery like this? Like I can't even believe what I'm reading.
 

Hitmeneer

Member
Oct 30, 2017
117
A similar thing happened in Italy. They had some vaccines open and nobody on the list was available. As a result the doctors called family members. They found out because some kids made instagram stories about it.

This is illegal. And it should be, because it sets a dangerous precedent. This would lead to abuse and preferable treatment to family members of doctors and potentially bribery. Also consider these people will need a second shot, so they would take away an extra dose that is available later on from people who actually need it more.

It feels counterintuitive, but I understand the need for very strict rules.

The guy that made the remark about the too many Indian names on the list, should obviously be fired right away. No place for racists.
 

Powdered Egg

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
17,070
This is fucked up and of course they had to throw racism in there. Wtf @ being angry that Indian people got vaccines that were headed for the trash can.

Lawyer up and sue their asses!
 

Stop It

Bad Cat
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,349
This is beyond fucked up.

In the UK we've had issues with how to use spare doses if they're due to expire with good practice to have reserve lists and then to find whoever you can. However nobody is going to be fired because they only had a few hours and went "hell to it" and found anyone they could.

9 people vaccinated is better than 9 doses wasted. Why the hell is this a firing offence.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Why did he open the vial before having the patients lined up? Sounds a bit fishy.

"Hey, lets drive our whole family and one regular patient into the middle of nowhere, and then open the vial....."
I have to ask myself the same question.

He didn't open the vial, it was opened by a nurse, legitimately, as a valid patient turned up to the end of a public event. He was then following instructions given beforehand, and then signed off by a public health official afterwards after he said what his plan was for the remaining doses.

On Dec. 22, Dr. Gokal joined a conference call in which state health officials explained the protocols for administering the recently approved Moderna vaccine. The 10 or 11 doses in a vial are viable for six hours after the seal is punctured.

Dr. Gokal said the advice was to vaccinate people eligible under the 1(a) category (health care workers and residents in long-term-care facilities), then those under the 1(b) category (people over 65 or with a health condition that increases risk of severe Covid-related illness).

After that, he said, the message was: "Just put it in people's arms. We don't want any doses to go to waste. Period."

On Dec. 29, a mild Tuesday, Dr. Gokal arrived before dawn at a park in the Houston suburb of Humble to supervise a vaccination event intended mostly for emergency workers. In part because of minimal publicity, the pace was slow, with no more than 250 doses administered. But this was the county's first public event, he said. "We knew there would be hiccups."

Around 6:45 at night, as the event wound down, an eligible person arrived for a shot. A nurse punctured a new vial to administer the vaccine, which activated the six-hour time limit for the 10 remaining doses.
The chances of 10 eligible people suddenly showing up were slim; by now, workers were offsetting the darkness with car headlights. But Dr. Gokal said he was determined not to waste a single dose.

He said he first asked the event's 20 or so workers, who either refused or had already been vaccinated. The paramedics on site had left, and of the two police officers, one had been vaccinated and the other declined the doctor's offer.

Dr. Gokal said he called a Harris County public health official in charge of operations to report his plans to find 10 people to receive the remaining doses. He said he was told, simply: OK.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
A similar thing happened in Italy. They had some vaccines open and nobody on the list was available. As a result the doctors called family members. They found out because some kids made instagram stories about it.

This is illegal. And it should be, because it sets a dangerous precedent. This would lead to abuse and preferable treatment to family members of doctors and potentially bribery. Also consider these people will need a second shot, so they would take away an extra dose that is available later on from people who actually need it more.

It feels counterintuitive, but I understand the need for very strict rules.

The guy that made the remark about the too many Indian names on the list, should obviously be fired right away. No place for racists.
Worth pointing out here that this wasn't illegal in this case. The judge threw the case out immediately as it was bullshit, and wasn't illegal when the prosecution was making shit up about the protocols it claimed existed, and was also trying to frame it as theft when the only reason they found out about it was Dr Gokal documenting every step as per actual procedure. They hadn't even bothered to interview Dr Gokal, and, as the judge says, criminalising the documented, well-intentioned administration of a vaccine by a medical professional in a pandemic is just bloody stupid.

But Dr. Gokal said that no one from the district attorney's office had ever contacted him to hear his version of events. And when his lawyer requested copies of the written protocols and waiting list referred to in the complaint, a prosecutor told him by email that there were no written protocols from late December; nor had a written wait list yet been found.
Harris County had received the vaccine faster than anticipated, the email said, and public health officials "immediately jumped from testing to vaccinating."

Days later, a criminal court judge, Franklin Bynum, dismissed the case for lack of probable cause.
"In the number of words usually taken to describe an allegation of retail shoplifting, the State attempts, for the first time, to criminalize a doctor's documented administration of vaccine doses during a public health emergency," he wrote. "The Court emphatically rejects this attempted imposition of the criminal law on the professional decisions of a physician."
Both the Texas Medical Association and the Harris County Medical Society recently issued a statement of support for physicians like Dr. Gokal who find themselves scrambling "to avoid wasting the vaccine in a punctured vial."
"It is difficult to understand any justification for charging any well-intentioned physician in this situation with a criminal offense," the statement said.

Dane Schiller, the district attorney's director of communications, declined to answer questions about the case. He said in an email that when the matter is presented to a grand jury, "representatives of the community can vote on whether an indictment is warranted."
Meanwhile, Dr. Gokal said, he continues to pay a price for not wasting a vaccine in a pandemic.

We're talking about a limited number of doses given where a medical professional, acting in good conscience, clearly prioritised the elderly and the vulnerable with ten doses in a pandemic rather than waste them. If it was a systemic issue with thousands of doses disappearing, I (and I suspect people ruling on laughable 'theft' claims) would perhaps look twice at this. But given the mixed instructions that he had such as "Just put it in people's arms. We don't want any doses to go to waste. Period.", and a public health official saying 'OK' when he told them his plan to follow the previous instructions, he really didn't do anything wrong here.
 
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Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
He couldn't find any nurses cleaning stuff etc that were willing to get a shot?
He tried.
The chances of 10 eligible people suddenly showing up were slim; by now, workers were offsetting the darkness with car headlights. But Dr. Gokal said he was determined not to waste a single dose.

He said he first asked the event's 20 or so workers, who either refused or had already been vaccinated. The paramedics on site had left, and of the two police officers, one had been vaccinated and the other declined the doctor's offer.

Dr. Gokal said he called a Harris County public health official in charge of operations to report his plans to find 10 people to receive the remaining doses. He said he was told, simply: OK.
 

ekka4shiki

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,951
Even if he broke the protocol, firing him over it seems super harsh. Should've been a fine or something.
 

jizzywinks

Member
Oct 27, 2017
598
UK
I know it says there was 'minimal publicity' and that the event was only for emergency workers, but I still find it crazy to think that they're struggling to get people in to receive a vaccine

Edit: also crazy that other emergency workers attending the event refused a vaccine
 
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Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Even if he broke the protocol, firing him over it seems super harsh. Should've been a fine or something.
Even that would be ridiculous when his actions were demonstrably in good conscience and following mixed instructions and sign-offs.

Both the Texas Medical Association and the Harris County Medical Society recently issued a statement of support for physicians like Dr. Gokal who find themselves scrambling "to avoid wasting the vaccine in a punctured vial."

"It is difficult to understand any justification for charging any well-intentioned physician in this situation with a criminal offense," the statement said.
 

KDR_11k

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
5,235
I'm guessing the administrators and bureaucrats want to avoid creating any situation that would allow corrupt doctors to falsely claim they have leftover doses and actually hand them out to the highest bidder but IMO it's not worth deploying a blanket ban and instead should be dealt with individually if anyone tries that shit.

There should be a policy for e.g. a queue for people to wait for surplus doses that's properly managed to prevent infection between the waiting people and no guarantee of actually receiving a vaccine. Still better to jab random people than to throw it away.
 

LTWheels

Member
Nov 8, 2017
767
I know from family members at UK hospitals, vacinne are been offered out to non-clinical staff in these situations to avoid wastage. One hospital has decided to allow family remembers who live with staff to be put on the backup of the backup lists to avoid wastage.
 

Dr. Mario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,839
Netherlands
He should be punished for the precedent that this creates, or people all over will open vials for a single shot and then use the remainder for family members. If it was deemed to be in good conscience, firing is unnecessary.
 

Razmos

Unshakeable One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,890
What a stupid waste it would have been otherwise, he clearly did the right thing
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,349
He should be punished for the precedent that this creates, or people all over will open vials for a single shot and then use the remainder for family members. If it was deemed to be in good conscience, firing is unnecessary.

Ridiculous. There shouldn't be any punishment at all. For a start, the scenario you're imagining isn't even what happened here. He didn't even open it.

You're arguing that the precedent should be that any open vials should be allowed to go to waste rather than speed up getting to the end of the pandemic and saving peoples lives along the way.

The ingrained reaction against healthcare being used to save lives in so many in the USA is goddamn wild.