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Patapuf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,407
A). Who cares? Nothing of great consequence happened, and most fans embraced it as fantastic shithousery. In this context, "equal treatment" would mean that Alex Morgan's much, much, much less sensitive celebration wouldn't even have registered on people's radars. Also, love that usage of whatabout there; like somehow that was an irrelevant example to bring up when the person I responded to was literally basing their entire argument around the idea that this just isn't a thing that happens...

B). Yes, the context was different. A horrible, conflicted history vs. a minor English stereotype and popular tea memes. I find it hard to understand why you're apparently more comfortable with the former being invoked in a football match than the latter.

It's not like aynthing is actually happening to the US players beyond a few newspapers and fans complaining that the celebrations were classless.

whereas the examples brought up did actually have conesquences for the people involved. I'm saying comparing children of refugees doing something out of political conviction, whether right of wrong, is not the example to bring up when discussing how much shittalk is okay.

Also lol@ fans "embracing the shithousery". That is not what happened.
 

Nerokis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,560
whew

You guys are embarrassing yourselves. Insulting celebrations do get men fined/carded.

Off the top of my head (not including the Swiss lot), Van Nistelrooy vs Andorra

Anelka vs West Ham resulted in a big fine iirc

I'm not 100% sure what point this post is trying to make. Was someone arguing about fines/cards?

It's not like aynthing is actually happening to the US players beyond a few newspapers and fans complaining that the celebrations were classless.

whereas the examples brought up did actually have conesquences for the people involved. I'm saying comparing children of refugees doing something out of political conviction, whether right of wrong, is not the example to bring up when discussing how much shittalk is okay.

Lichtsteiner is the child of refugees...?

Also lol@ fans "embracing the shithousery". That is not what happened.

Exhibit #1: https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/8trx2n/xhaka_shaqiri_and_lichtsteiner_will_not_receive/
 

Patapuf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,407
Lichtsteiner is the child of refugees...?

Some of his teammates were. Again, what happened in that game was not about "shittalk". And neither btw, was it without consequences. There was quite a bit of fallout after the fact, even if it didn't involve the tournament.

People did not just laugh and move on.
 

Deleted member 38573

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 17, 2018
3,902
I'm not 100% sure what point this post is trying to make. Was someone arguing about fines/cards?



Lichtsteiner is the child of refugees...?



Exhibit #1: https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/8trx2n/xhaka_shaqiri_and_lichtsteiner_will_not_receive/

"people seem to give a complete pass to"

I assumed referees and governing bodies were included in "people". Even with that distinction, think you're still wrong. The Swiss controversy was hitting BBC sports front pages regularly months after the fact

Practically impossible to "prove" public outrage on past incidents, so i'll concede.

and i can't believe you just posted a link to a reddit subforum to try and prove that there was no outrage.... I don't think a group of white 20 something year olds on an internet forum is indicative of how the general footballing world is feeling on anything... ever.
 

Lyng

Editor at Popaco.dk
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,206
The Tea sipping thing was alot of fun. The stupid overhyped celebrations against Thailand after completely destroying them was pretty bad form.
That having been said I hope someone saves this thread for when the next time the US mens team gets destroyed and the opponents celebrate by building a wall.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
Not really, class is often releted to manners and respect

Those concepts are important.
Until the side with their noses stuck in the air declare that celebrating is bad manners and disrespectful. Why? Because we said so. Why? It just is.

The more I read about unwritten rules around this subject, the more I want to gag.

Some of you straight up sound like 80s movies preppy villains almost verbatim.
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,127
Until the side with their noses stuck in the air declare that celebrating is bad manners and disrespectful. Why? Because we said so. Why? It just is.

The more I read about unwritten rules around this subject, the more I want to gag.

Some of you straight up sound like 80s movies preppy villains almost verbatim.

Good thing that there's not a council deciding what's good and bad. It's just an opinion, the concept itself isn't particularly about or for snobs.
 

Pluto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,416
This team really showed no class, when you defeat another team 13-0 there's no reason to celebrate, when one team is so superior that they completely trash the opposing team the win is not an achievement it's just something that happened.

This new tea sipping thing is just teasing the other team, it's not a big deal, especially because english people drinking tea is not a negative stereotype.
 

Nerokis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,560
Some of his teammates were. Again, what happened in that game was not about "shittalk". And neither btw, was it without consequences. There was quite a bit of fallout after the fact, even if it didn't involve the tournament.

People did not just laugh and move on.

I deliberately only mentioned Lichtsteiner, and it's interesting to me that you're giving Lichtsteiner all the benefit of the doubt in the world while ascribing maliciousness to Morgan.

Either way, let the following image be my final contribution to this exchange:

e0xx6f26wm511.jpg

"people seem to give a complete pass to"

I assumed referees and governing bodies were included in "people". Even with that distinction, think you're still wrong. The Swiss controversy was hitting BBC sports front pages regularly months after the fact

Practically impossible to "prove" public outrage on past incidents, so i'll concede.

and i can't believe you just posted a link to a reddit subforum to try and prove that there was no outrage.... I don't think a group of white 20 something year olds on an internet forum is indicative of how the general footballing world is feeling on anything... ever.

I mean, no. Cards/fines are almost never relevant to how people perceive events (aside from how officials handled them), and the argument here definitely isn't about whether Alex Morgan deserved to carded/fined.

And I never said there wasn't outrage. I said "most fans embraced it as fantastic shithousery" - the groups not to be included there are obvious. The existence of outrage among this or that segment of football fans certainly doesn't imply the existence of some universal rule of etiquette that players are consistently criticized for not adhering to.

Anyway, that Reddit link was to give an example of fan reaction to make the whole discussion a touch less amorphous, not to "prove" anything. I quite honestly didn't see a whole lot of people questioning Lichtsteiner's character after he did that, though.
 

Deleted member 38573

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 17, 2018
3,902
Until the side with their noses stuck in the air declare that celebrating is bad manners and disrespectful. Why? Because we said so. Why? It just is.

The more I read about unwritten rules around this subject, the more I want to gag.

Some of you straight up sound like 80s movies preppy villains almost verbatim.

depends on the celebration. plenty of reasons were given. clear pattern of behavior after mini spygate and thailand trashing.

best do some more reading

wild seeing snobby used to describe anything in world football.
 

Patapuf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,407
I deliberately only mentioned Lichtsteiner, and it's interesting to me that you're giving Lichtsteiner all the benefit of the doubt in the world while ascribing maliciousness to Morgan.

Either way, let the following image be my final contribution to this exchange:

Anyway, that Reddit link was to give an example of fan reaction to make the whole discussion a touch less amorphous, not to "prove" anything. I quite honestly didn't see a whole lot of people questioning Lichtsteiner's character after he did that, though.

I've taken this off-topic enough. But i wonder why anyone would question lichtsteiners character for standing with his teammates, especially given the nature of the fallout within the federation and the media afterwards. And i'm mostly talking Swiss media here.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,237
FYI: In the UK we honestly don't give a shit about the American war of independence. At best if I were to show that original picture to people here I'd likely get a "uh... okay" response. In fact I bet the vast majority would have zero clue what it references as it is important historical moment for the USA and not the UK.

But if the Olympics taught me anything it's that the USA love overt displays of arrogance in international sports.
 
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Sasliquid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,294
Could be worse, it could of been against Chile and she could of mimed setting up and funding a military junta to oust a democratically elected government
 

shintoki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,074
There is a difference between no class and inappropriate, sure saying cool it after they run the train over Thailand is fine, bit hard to watch after the 7th goal. But nothing they've done has been inappropriate and there have been a lot of bitch eating crackers with these girls. Well... except they are exporting salt around the world.
 

Nerokis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,560
I've taken this off-topic enough. But i wonder why anyone would question lichtsteiners character for standing with his teammates, especially given the nature of the fallout within the federation and the media afterwards. And i'm mostly talking Swiss media here.

Maybe because, in addition to standing with his teammates, he was also straight up trolling over a sensitive subject that wasn't quite in his lane.

That said, I loved what he did on multiple levels. I also loved that Morgan used the occasion of facing England to evoke "that's the tea" memes in the context of a tournament where the US team has been criticized for the most nonsensical reasons. It's all good.

(Oops, I was supposed to bounce from this exchange, wasn't I)

Could be worse, it could of been against Chile and she could of mimed setting up and funding a military junta to oust a democratically elected government
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,101
UK
"Upper class tea swilling elites" is ridiculously stupid comment. Most of the country, regardless of class, enjoy a cuppa.
The Boston tea party was not about us common British folk in the 21st century having a cuppa. That's what the player is referring to, rebelling against the royalists. Actually a more fitting gesture would be her putting the cup up as if about to drink but then spilling it.
 

iapetus

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,078
The Boston tea party was not about us common British folk in the 21st century having a cuppa. That's what the player is referring to, rebelling against the royalists. Actually a more fitting gesture would be her putting the cup up as if about to drink but then spilling it.

No, what the player is referring to is the USA beating England. At stuff. I really don't think there's any deep and subtle socioeconomic point being made here. It's "We beat you. Again. Suck it."

And you know, I'm okay with that.
 

Deleted member 38573

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 17, 2018
3,902
The Boston tea party was not about us common British folk in the 21st century having a cuppa. That's what the player is referring to, rebelling against the royalists. Actually a more fitting gesture would be her putting the cup up as if about to drink but then spilling it.

Do Americans really give a fuck about the war of independence?

I can't picture a 20-30 something year old, super rich and famous woman caring all too much about the boston tea party

seems like the weirdest thing to pop into someones mind when playing the biggest match of your life as well

i'm like 90% sure she was just repeating a the wendy williams/kermit tea sip meme.

At the end of the day, this "controversy" is only gonna help get eyes on womens football. Anecdotal but a lot of my friends didn't grow up playing football so they never really felt the need to watch pros. However the drama of the premier league with all the club derbys, rival managers etc was a great way for them to enter the sport. They didn't even need to understand the intricacies in order to enjoy it.
 
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Kiraly

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,848
Christ, can't believe this thread is still going on lol.

Look, it's clear that neither will ever change their opinions because of the differences in sports culture between the two.

Let's just enjoy the final this Sunday and after we can part ways again and enjoy our own, separate sports.

But I do hope to see all of you in the Tokyo 2020 thread because my god will that be an absolutely spectacular shitshow on ERA.
 

DonaldKimball

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,413
Pretty embarassing to celebrate after double digit goals. Bet they didn't celebrate when they lost 5 - 2 against 15 year olds.
 

Threadkular

Member
Dec 29, 2017
2,414
its all about where you draw the line

its not great sportsmanship for a team to showboat or mock their opponents.

I'm all for traditional sportsmanship at everything below professional levels. But once at pro levels there is a level of entertainment where I think a pro wrestling element can be involved and I welcome it. All that said, I've never been very competitive when I play sports and always play a little tongue-in-cheek cause I have more fun that way.

Of all things, sports seems like a strange thing to be so sensitive about.

I'm bored of the Madison Bumgarner approach to things.
 

strudelkuchen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,067
Remember the 2014 World Cup semi-final between Brazil and Germany?
Germany led 5-0 at half time and could've easily scored double figures.
The game ended 7-1 and is a meme to this day.
If you know what that game did to a nation, just imagine what could have been.

Scoring 13 against Thailand was just being a bully.

Showing mercy is a virtue, as is being graceful in victory.
 

Lyng

Editor at Popaco.dk
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,206
I'm talking about men's soccer in general.

I know. But you cant hand out a free goal like that and not expect me to take the shot ;)..

To answer Your question its pretty much the same. The players who do these tend to be loved by their fans and hated by the opposition. It's rare to see behavior like that from the Thailand game in men's matches. Especially on the EC and WC stage.