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Farlander

Game Designer
Verified
Sep 29, 2021
329
This is something I have been thinking about for quite a while, though more actively ever since last year when there were tons of discussions surrounding Super Mario 64, and Nintendo 64 in general and how it has affected gaming culture, with everyone remembering how they've played these games back in those days.

And while both undoubtedly are important to history, this discussion couldn't help but make me feel how Americanized (and possibly West-Europinized or UK-ified? I'm not sure, as far as I know for example Commodore PC gaming culture was pretty wide-spread in the UK which wasn't exactly the case in the US, so there could be more differences) is the discussion surrounding gaming history and culture.

So if we talk about Mario 64 for example... I'm from Moldova, and in those post-Soviet Eastern European countries like that, Ukraine, Russia itself even, pretty much nobody has owned N64 - it didn't really exist. Gaming culture was defined by other games, some of which were made in the area itself and didn't become popular in the West (or weren't released there at all).

Like, Eastern Europe was mostly a PC-based region. Yeah there was a bootleg NES called Dendy at one point, and then Sony Playstation became pretty popular, but still it didn't become as popular as PC, where the pirate culture was rampant in interesting ways. We actually had a lot of competing pirating groups - and competition was involved in who would release the best-cracked stable version + the best translation. There was even a site that would rate different pirate releases, and any official localizations that would SLOWLY start appearing would need to somehow get in within that pirating context. And as a result, games that were much more important for the overall culture were released for PC rather than consoles, which has included genres like strategy games and point'n'click adventures (and games that were MADE in these regions weren't directly influenced by games like Mario 64, but only through proxy at most - again, due to N64 not really being a thing).

Speaking of adventure games, it has always been weird to me that it is considered that at some point in time adventure games died before getting a sort of renaissance with the release of Telltale's The Walking Dead. While this might be true for the US, this has never happened in Central/Eastern Europe - this kind of genre was still popular there, and being made there as well (With most titles getting made in Germany, heh, but there was a lot of Russian, Czech, and other adventure games too). But researching this topic I see that many of those games didn't really see a widespread release in the US. Still, for us adventure games never died, I still vividly remember that time when I was sort of weirded out because the Internet was full of discussions how 'adventure games are dead' while I on the other hand was playing so many new regular releases of this supposedly dead genre, and was thinking 'what are you talking about? Adventure games aren't dead!'

And this got me thinking that there must be more examples of the development of gaming culture or history that is ignored simply because the discussions around it are very US-centric, so what would be examples of history proceeding differently in your region, or different games being popular than those that are traditionally known to have an impact?
 

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,481
The UK was massively microcomputer centric during the time of the US "crash", with tons of locally developed games centered around the speccy and c64 and then later the amiga and atari st. IBM compatible DOS computers were just another computer and only really took off substantially around 1992, about the same time as consoles became big.
 
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Wrexis

Member
Nov 4, 2017
21,229
Interesting topic. Didn't know the Commodore wasn't popular in the US.

JRPGs in the 90s (and 00s to a degree) were non existent in the UK as FIFA and other football games ruled the market.
I think it's well known that some like Xenogears etc didn't make it over too - there is an urban legend that FF7 was the most returned UK game of that era so maybe Square-Enix were influenced by that.
 

jsnepo

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,648
Family Computer ruled gaming in our country during the 80s to early 90s.

Playstation then ruled the rest of the 90s.
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,375
Master System was the greatest console ever created and it kicked nintendo's ass throughly during the 8 bit gen

Which of course means i'm from Brazil
 

Izanagi89

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,565
Nintendo basically had no presence in South Africa. I grew up with the NES era of games but the most popular console was by far the Golden China TV Game (Famiclone, I guess). So while Nintendo themselves and their consoles didn't have a big impact, their games sure did as most of us grew up with Mario Bros etc. Sega Genesis also had a boom for a while here too. Then Playstation just blew up here. Hardly anyone knew what Mario64 or the N64 was but mention Crash Bandicoot and you'd get an immediate response. After that gaming was split between PC and PS for a long time.
 

Deleted member 1849

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,986
At times I've pointed out that the simple "gaming died between 1983-1985 only to be saved by Nintendo" version of gaming history isn't really right, as that was mostly a US console gaming crash, and more computer centric regions (like the UK) didn't experience a crash in the same way.

I also distinctly remember posting it on this website a couple of years ago and getting an entire page of angry replies telling me to read up on gaming history.
 

Leafshield

Member
Nov 22, 2019
2,934
The whole 'early 80s video game crash' and 'saved by Nintendo' thing is US-centric. In Europe we were into micro-computers instead and 8-bit platform wars were spectrum/commodore/Amstrad etc long before they were NES/SMS.

16-bit JRPGs- Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest didn't release in Europe (until the DS, PS1 and PS2 respectively), so there's no association with JRPGs there on 'best of the SNES' lists in the same way that CT/FFVI duke it out on US lists.
 
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MondoMega

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 10, 2018
47,474
Australia
A lot of video game discussion on the internet is dominated by US viewpoints, even today it still feels that way. Going back though, the whole market crash, the positioning of R.O.B. and Nintendo as "saviours" of video games and the domination of the NES in that era is predominantly a US thing. Look around the world and you'll see Commodore 64 and Master System ustaging it in many regions. Of course Famicom was the big shot in Japan too, but it's still an entirely different story there compared to the tired tales of Nintendo saving all of video games from the scary crash.

Is it even common knowledge in gaming spaces that Mattel handled NES distribution in some regions? My Aussie NES has 'MATTEL VERSION' text right below the logo, and my small collection of games all have the Mattel logo plastered on their labels.

I've seen a ton of people talk about their nostalgia for Square Soft games on Super Nintendo, but that was just a non-factor in PAL regions; we didn't get any Final Fantasy, or Mana, or Chrono Trigger, or even Super Mario RPG. Only on the PlayStation did they start bringing those games over. Feels like it took a lot longer for non-Pokemon JRPGs to catch on beyond the nichest of niche audiences because of that alone.
 

Nairume

SaGa Sage
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,929
When people talk about the crash, that was mostly US centric.
It was, but while there absolutely is a problem with people acting as if the crash itself was a global thing, there has been an over correction where people downplay the very real global impact of the crash. There's a lot more nuance to discussing that history that people weirdly just don't want to get into.
 

Praedyth

Member
Feb 25, 2020
6,519
Brazil
There's a football game better than FIFA and PES and it only exists in Brazil. It's the Bomba Patch, a homebrew of an older PES version for the PS2 that is still going to this day, it even launched for PS5 although I have no idea how people download it.

It's a shame that game will never be on the gaming history books. Also, they did more than EA by outright removing racist players and Russia from the game. Their slogan is something like "100% up to date" and it's true.
 

Mirage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,559
Interesting topic. Didn't know the Commodore wasn't popular in the US.

JRPGs in the 90s (and 00s to a degree) were non existent in the UK as FIFA and other football games ruled the market.
I think it's well known that some like Xenogears etc didn't make it over too - there is an urban legend that FF7 was the most returned UK game of that era so maybe Square-Enix were influenced by that.
There wasn't even a PAL Dragon Quest until 7 came out on the PS2.
 

Leafshield

Member
Nov 22, 2019
2,934
A lot of video game discussion on the internet is dominated by US viewpoints, even today it still feels that way. Going back though, the whole market crash, the positioning of R.O.B. and Nintendo as "saviours" of video games and the domination of the NES in that era is predominantly a US thing. Look around the world and you'll see Commodore 64 and Master System ustaging it in many regions. Of course Famicom was the big shot in Japan too, but it's still an entirely different story there compared to the tired tales of Nintendo saving all of video games from the scary crash.

Is it even common knowledge in gaming spaces that Mattel handled NES distribution in some regions? My Aussie NES has 'MATTEL VERSION' text right below the logo, and my small collection of games all have the Mattel logo plastered on their labels.

I've seen a ton of people talk about their nostalgia for Square Soft games on Super Nintendo, but that was just a non-factor in PAL regions; we didn't get any Final Fantasy, or Mana, or Chrono Trigger, or even Super Mario RPG. Only on the PlayStation did they start bringing those games over. Feels like it took a lot longer for non-Pokemon JRPGs to catch on beyond the nichest of niche audiences because of that alone.
Just on the last point, Secret of Mana released on SNES in Pal regions, as did Mystic Quest (AKA FF Adventure AKA the first mana game) on GB. We didn't get Final Fantasy until the PSOne though, DQ until the PS2, or Chrono Trigger until the DS port.
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,375
Seeing the UK posts about JRPGs being non existent in the UK makes me wonder. Brazil had a similar 8bit gen dominated by SMS and a very delayed release of the SNES so Final Fantasy and Dragon Warrior werent big names here either, however there was one (basically just that one) JRPG that made a splash - Phantasy Star. And thanks to TecToy handling the SMS here wonderfully, it was fully translated in portuguese, afaik the first rpg to ever get such treatment (and would remain the only one for a long time)
 

MondoMega

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 10, 2018
47,474
Australia
Just on the last point, Secret of Mana released on SNES in Pal regions, as did Mystic Quest (AKA FF Adventure AKA the first mana game) on GB. We didn't get Final Fantasy until the PSOne though, DQ until the PS2, or Chrono Trigger until the DS port.
Ah, you're right; I was thinking of Secret of Evermore as "the one that released in PAL regions" and totally forgot that Secret of Mana did too; my mistake!
 

Leafshield

Member
Nov 22, 2019
2,934
Ah, you're right; I was thinking of Secret of Evermore as "the one that released in PAL regions" and totally forgot that Secret of Mana did too; my mistake!
Easily done! Yeah it was really random and not helped by the name changes on some titles too- like the Saga games released on GB as FF Legend too.
 

toadkarter

Member
Oct 2, 2020
2,011
Yeah, I grew up in Eastern Europe in the late 90s, and had no idea what a console was when I was a kid. Literally every single person around me played video games on a PC. It was only when I moved to the west in the 2000s that I started learning about all the stuff I missed out on, got my first handheld, etc.
 

Leafshield

Member
Nov 22, 2019
2,934
Seeing the UK posts about JRPGs being non existent in the UK makes me wonder. Brazil had a similar 8bit gen dominated by SMS and a very delayed release of the SNES so Final Fantasy and Dragon Warrior werent big names here either, however there was one (basically just that one) JRPG that made a splash - Phantasy Star. And thanks to TecToy handling the SMS here wonderfully, it was fully translated in portuguese, afaik the first rpg to ever get such treatment (and would remain the only one for a long time)
We got the Phantasy Star games in the UK but they really didn't take off here. I'm not sure why, it's not like the SMS/Mega Drive weren't popular. I think there just wasn't a really huge amount of interest in console rpgs as a whole here at the time. The UK games press didn't cover even the ones that did release very much, with the exception of Super Play, that pretty much went out of its way to talk about grey import JRPGs, anime etc.
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,103
Didn't know the Commodore wasn't popular in the US.
The C64 was moderately popular in the US but with the twist that US and European C64 owners were having very different gaming experiences.

Generalising a bit, but in the US the C64 was bought as a home computer and the most popular games tended to be RPGs, strategy games, adventure games, and such. In much of Europe the C64 tended to be bought instead of a console and the most popular games were things like platformers, arcade conversions, sports games and racing games.

There was some overlap but not a huge amount. If there were a topic where people posted their personal favourite C64 games, anyone familiar with the library would be able to tell with a high degree of certainty whether each list poster was from the US or not based on the list.
 

Thera

Banned
Feb 28, 2019
12,876
France
There's a football game better than FIFA and PES and it only exists in Brazil. It's the Bomba Patch, a homebrew of an older PES version for the PS2 that is still going to this day, it even launched for PS5 although I have no idea how people download it.

It's a shame that game will never be on the gaming history books. Also, they did more than EA by outright removing racist players and Russia from the game. Their slogan is something like "100% up to date" and it's true.
You mad me curious
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
Great topic! Which also gives me a chance to share recent "best games of all time" list, from the readers of local gaming magazine. They held the vote for the magazine's 30th anniversary. It's hell of a different list to what you see at IGN or even here at Era. And I love it, it's super refreshing and also mirrors my own gaming experiences much better. Besides the lack of Mario.

1. Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
2. UFO: Enemy Unknown
3. Fallout 2
4. Baldur's Gate 2
5. Dark Souls
6. Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge
7. Final Fantasy VII
8. Deus Ex
9. World of Warcraft
10. Doom (1993)
11. Jagged Alliance 2
11. Half-Life 2
13. Bloodborne
14. Heroes of Might and Magic 3
15. Star Wars: TIE Fighter
16. Half-Life
16. Star Control II
18. Sid Meier's Civilization II
19. Planescape: Torment
20. Mass Effect 2
21. Disco Elysium
21. Fallout
23. Sid Meier's Civilization IV
24. Diablo 2
25. Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis
26. Red Dead Redemption 2
27. Chrono Trigger
27. Grand Theft Auto V
27. Halo: Combat Evolved
30. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
30. System Shock 2
32. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
32. The Last of Us
32. Metal Gear Solid
32. Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss
36. Europa Universalis IV
36. The Last of Us 2
36. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
36. Mass Effect
36. Master of Orion 2
36. Minecraft
42. Batman: Arkham Asylum
42. Command & Conquer
42. Dungeon Master
42. Final Fantasy IX
42. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
42. Steel Panthers
42. Vampires the Masquerade: Bloodlines
49. Max Payne
49. Star Wars: Knight of the Old Republic
49. Thief the Dark Project
52. Age of Empires 2
52. Baldur's Gate
52. Dune II
52. The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
52. Freespace 2
52. Metroid Prime
52. Pokémon Red/Blue
52. Quake
52. Super Mario 64
52. System Shock
 
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litebrite

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,832
Interesting topic. Didn't know the Commodore wasn't popular in the US.
For a substantial period (1983–1986), the C64 had between 30% and 40% share of the US market and two million units sold per year, outselling IBM PC compatibles, Apple computers, and the Atari 8-bit family of computers. Sam Tramiel, a later Atari president and the son of Commodore's founder, said in a 1989 interview, "When I was at Commodore we were building 400,000 C64s a month for a couple of years."
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,898
JP
I remember being really surprised to learn most people online were not that familiar with KOF, compared to other fighting games. I'm Mexican so KOF was the fighting game growing up, lol.
 

345

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,357
There's a football game better than FIFA and PES and it only exists in Brazil. It's the Bomba Patch, a homebrew of an older PES version for the PS2 that is still going to this day, it even launched for PS5 although I have no idea how people download it.

It's a shame that game will never be on the gaming history books. Also, they did more than EA by outright removing racist players and Russia from the game. Their slogan is something like "100% up to date" and it's true.

damn, never heard of this. which version of PES is it based on?
 

litebrite

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,832
I remember being really surprised to learn most people online were not that familiar with KOF, compared to other fighting games. I'm Mexican so KOF was the fighting game growing up, lol.
I was in the US arcades all the time in the late 80s and all throughout the 90s.

I think the general perception of King of Fighters among US audiences at that time was it being a cheap, bootleg Street Fighter 2 knockoff. lol
 

Oscarzx n

Member
May 24, 2018
2,992
Santiago, Chile
Latin America here, it varies from country to country but for the most part people where too poor buy consoles until the SNES or Genesis days, where they used rentals to play them since the games were too expensive. Then the PS1 and especially 2 became extremely popular thanks to piracy, really I feel people think that the 150M of PS2 were thanks to the DVD but a huge part of that was the sales on third world countries after the 7th gen appeared.
 

Xater

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,905
Germany
You are correct. Being from Germany Nintendo certainly had a presence here in the 90s but a lot of gaming was still happening on computers. On a place like this site I don't see much discourse about football management sims like Anstoss which were super popular here. Big thing for me are the games by Bluebyte, I mean beyond Settlers. Battle Isle for example and for me personally it was Incubation. Man I loved Incubation. Another thing are management sims about almost anything, from transportation to your own pizza empire everything had its place.
 

Leafshield

Member
Nov 22, 2019
2,934
Another UK one- in 1990, UK kids were still way more familiar with the Dizzy games than Mario. Mostly as you could buy the games with your pocket money for £1.99, or just swap bootleg cassettes. We swapped puzzle solutions and the most efficient way through the games. It wasn't really until the hype around the Megadrive (1990) and SMB3 (that only released in Europe in summer 1991, just before the SNES), that the push for consoles and their £30-£40 games that didn't take half an hour to load really took over the conversation, and even then the PC crowd stuck with the Amiga. The big push around Nintendo's cartoon, merchandise and the games press around consoles really taking off helped too. So weird to think that it all happened so fast. There's only about 5 years between the console scene really kicking off in the UK and the launch of Edge magazine which tried to leave a lot of the childish warz aspect of the single format magazines behind.
 

retroman

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,056
Here in The Netherlands, like in most European countries, the Commodore 64 was huge in the eighties. It wasn't until the early nineties that the gaming space started to resemble the situation in the US, where IBM PC's reigned supreme.

Also, back then I got all my gaming news from British gaming magazines like C&VG, Mean Machines, Zapp!64, Commodore Format and Sega Power. Remember those?
 

Jakten

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,764
Devil World, Toronto
Interesting topic. Didn't know the Commodore wasn't popular in the US.
The way my parents talk the C64 was popular in Canada, prior to the NES atleast, and they don't really play games so I was suprised they even knew what it was. They got rid of it awhile after I was born and bought an NES because they thought it'd be easier for me to play.

I don't think Canada was that different from the US in most instances but we did get our own versions of some NES games which often have fixed up bugs, slightly different content, and lots of french on all the boxes. I never realized until I started playing roms that some of our games were slightly different.
 

Xater

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,905
Germany
Great topic! Which also gives me a chance to share recent "best games of all time" list, from the readers of local gaming magazine. They held the vote for the magazine's 30th anniversary. It's hell of a different list to what you see at IGN or even here at Era. And I love it, it's super refreshing and also mirrors my own gaming experiences much better. Besides the lack of Mario.

1. Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
2. UFO: Enemy Unknown
3. Fallout 2
4. Baldur's Gate 2
5. Dark Souls
6. Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge
7. Final Fantasy VII
8. Deus Ex
9. World of Warcraft
10. Doom (1993)
11. Jagged Alliance 2
11. Half-Life 2
13. Bloodborne
14. Heroes of Might and Magic 3
15. Star Wars: TIE Fighter
16. Half-Life
16. Star Control II
18. Sid Meier's Civilization II
19. Planescape: Torment
20. Mass Effect 2
21. Disco Elysium
21. Fallout
23. Sid Meier's Civilization IV
24. Diablo 2
25. Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis
26. Red Dead Redemption 2
27. Chrono Trigger
27. Grand Theft Auto V
27. Halo: Combat Evolved
30. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
30. System Shock 2
32. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
32. The Last of Us
32. Metal Gear Solid
32. Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss
36. Europa Universalis IV
36. The Last of Us 2
36. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
36. Mass Effect
36. Master of Orion 2
36. Minecraft
42. Batman: Arkham Asylum
42. Command & Conquer
42. Dungeon Master
42. Final Fantasy IX
42. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
42. Steel Panthers
42. Vampires the Masquerade: Bloodlines
49. Max Payne
49. Star Wars: Knight of the Old Republic
49. Thief the Dark Project
52. Age of Empires 2
52. Baldur's Gate
52. Dune II
52. The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
52. Freespace 2
52. Metroid Prime
52. Pokémon Red/Blue
52. Quake
52. Super Mario 64
52. System Shock

Now that is a list where I also recognize a lot of greats that barely get talked about in the US. I don't think I know a podcast that ever mentioned Jagged Alliance.
 
OP
OP
Farlander

Farlander

Game Designer
Verified
Sep 29, 2021
329
One other thing. We never really had any console wars in my region (like, Microsoft and Nintendo weren't really a thing, and PS1/PS2 were only mildly popular, hard to get and impossible to play without bootleg game copies many of which didn't work correctly), but like for example the Gamecube vs. PS2 vs. Xbox totally missed us.

What we did have was Gothic vs Morrowind. I was in the Gothic camp by the way :D But yeah, Gothic 1-2 and Morrowind were REALLY popular, and it was sort of a big argument across the years which one was better. The war died in 2006 because the battle would've been 'decided' by Oblivion and Gothic 3 releasing the same year, but both kinda.... failed. Lol. So this 'Gothic vs. Morrowind' war sort of died down because of that.
 

Uzzy

Gabe’s little helper
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,093
Hull, UK
At times I've pointed out that the simple "gaming died between 1983-1985 only to be saved by Nintendo" version of gaming history isn't really right, as that was mostly a US console gaming crash, and more computer centric regions (like the UK) didn't experience a crash in the same way.

I also distinctly remember posting it on this website a couple of years ago and getting an entire page of angry replies telling me to read up on gaming history.

Yup, it's been practically mythologised as the defining event of early computer game history, and while it certainly had an impact, it's perception has been filtered almost entirely through US sources, and likely magnified by many who have an interest in (fairly or otherwise) portraying a version of history that shows Nintendo as the saviours of gaming.

Being British, I've got memories of playing my older brother's Acorn Electron and Commodore 64 in the early 90s, with a host of games from the 80s. And neither of those were the most popular microcomputer here in the UK, that was the ZX Spectrum, who's creator, Clive Sinclair, recently passed away with barely a mention here. He's was practically a Iwata level figure in the early history of computing, especially in the UK.
 

Leafshield

Member
Nov 22, 2019
2,934
Here in The Netherlands, like in most European countries, the Commodore 64 was huge in the eighties. It wasn't until the early nineties that the gaming space started to resemble the situation in the US, where IBM PC's reigned supreme.

Also, back then I got all my gaming news from British gaming magazines like C&VG, Mean Machines, Zapp!64, Commodore Format and Sega Power. Remember those?
I remember all of those! C&VG and Mean Machines in particular as the multi-format ones, I remember those got a lot of kids interested in switching from micro-computers to consoles in the early 90s due to the exclusive games. Helped that the gaming TV programmes here (Bad Influence and Gamesmaster) were also console-centric too.
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,911
The UK was massively microcomputer centric during the time of the US "crash", with tons of locally developed games centered around the speccy and c64 and then later the amiga and atari st. IBM compatible DOS computers were just another computer and only really took off substantially around 1992, about the same time as consoles became big.
Likewise Japan also had a diverse and popular micro market in the 80s from NEC (PC6001/88/98), Fujitsu (FM-7/Towns), Sharp (MZ/X1/X6800) and ASCII/Microsoft (MSX/2/2+) pretty much up until the mid 90s when Windows compatibles really took over. Many of the biggest companies in gaming originated from this industry too rather than in the arcades, like Enix, Square, Koei, Hudson, Falcom, Compile and others.

PC gaming outside IBM/DOS and maybe a little Mac is generally overlooked historically despite what was going on in Europe or Asia, it's maybe even worse than looking at the console side.
 

TheDinoman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,092
The N64 is interesting in that it was reasonably successful enough in the US and sold on par with the SNES there...it's just elsewhere that it cratered, especially in Japan.

US SNES sales: 23.35 million
US N64 sales: 20.63 million
JP SNES sales: 17.17 million
JP N64 sales: 5.54 million
PAL/etc SNES sales: 8.58 million
PAL/etc N64 sales: 6.75 million

So it's really pretty much Japan where the N64 was the big OOF. It was just about as successful in the US as the SNES was, and in PAL regions, well, Nintendo was never really popular much there anyways (they were essentially always SEGA or Sony Land).

"Fun" fact: the Sega Saturn sold slightly more than N64 in Japan, at 5.75 million.
 
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Fudus

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Sep 18, 2020
1,791
I always chuckle a little when I see people seemingly taking it incredibly personal when a (usually Japanese) game isn't released in English. "Why do they hate us?".
When the norm for large parts of the globe has been to either rely on fan translations or simply playing games not in their native language.

And speaking of translations, Nintendo is so far behind in that department, they were so proud of Pokemon launching in like 8 languages. (Horizon Zero Dawn supports 20).
Which is why the Nintendo-Disney comparison doesn't work for me.
While Nintendo is bragging about supporting 8 languages, Disney probably has linguists deployed deep in the Amazon jungle in order to learn the languages of the uncontacted tribes so they can teach them to sing Let It Go and sell them Star Wars merch.
 

Deleted member 81119

User-requested account closure
Banned
Sep 19, 2020
8,308
Yeah PC gaming was dominant all through the SNES era in the U.K. Games like DOOM, Theme Park, and Red Alert weren't just popular, they were THE big games. SNES and the Megadrive were popular enough but they didn't occupy the zeitgeist in the same way.

And yet online retro discussion is absolutely dominated by the SNES and Nintendo. It's bizarre.

I was reminded of this recently when Monkey Island 6 was announced and all my friends talked about the old games. And yet that's a series that's just been absent from online discussion for a decade.
 

Jay_AD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,910
In my country, Anno 1602 had basically the same sales, impact and general mindshare at the time as Starcraft.

Also probably more people my age have fond memories of The Secret of Monkey Island than Super Mario World.

Things be different elsewhere. :)
 

Leafshield

Member
Nov 22, 2019
2,934
The N64 is an interesting beast of a console, in that it was reasonably successful enough in the US and sold on par with the SNES there...it's just elsewhere that it cratered, especially in Japan.

US SNES sales: 23.35 million
US N64 sales: 20.63 million
JP SNES sales: 17.17 million
JP N64 sales: 5.54 million
PAL/etc SNES sales: 8.58 million
PAL/etc N64 sales: 6.75 million

So it's really pretty much Japan where the N64 was the big OOF. It was just about as successful in the US as the SNES was, and in PAL regions, well, Nintendo was never really popular much there anyways (they were always SEGA or Sony Land, pretty much).

"Fun" fact: the Sega Saturn sold more than N64 in Japan, at 9.26 million.
I remember seeing these figures a while ago and it explained a lot to me as to why the N64 still seemed so popular amongst US posters, whereas in the UK it felt like it collapsed in the face of the PS being the launch of the 'young adult' marketing of gaming associated with pubs and clubs and college etc.
 

D.Lo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,348
Sydney
It was, but while there absolutely is a problem with people acting as if the crash itself was a global thing, there has been an over correction where people downplay the very real global impact of the crash. There's a lot more nuance to discussing that history that people weirdly just don't want to get into.
Yep, if nothing else it was an event that led to a worldwide Japanese takeover. Every generation since has been won by a Japanese company.
 

Leafshield

Member
Nov 22, 2019
2,934
Yeah PC gaming was dominant all through the SNES era in the U.K. Games like DOOM, Theme Park, and Red Alert weren't just popular, they were THE big games. SNES and the Megadrive were popular enough but they didn't occupy the zeitgeist in the same way.

And yet online retro discussion is absolutely dominated by the SNES and Nintendo. It's bizarre.

I was reminded of this recently when Monkey Island 6 was announced and all my friends talked about the old games. And yet that's a series that's just been absent from online discussion for a decade.
Dune 2 was the big PC RTS for my friend and I before we got into Red Alert (which I think was 1996?).
 

klauskpm

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,244
Brazil
The whole gaming stores culture. There wasn't a single GameStop equivalent in Brazil when I grew up, and as far as I know, there still isn't. Now days you can find stores that sell original/official games, and some that are totally focused on that, but until I was 13 that was an extremely rare sight. It was so rare, that the first store focused on games that I ever saw was selling pirated PS2 games and unlocked PS2s.

Everything that came from those stores existing, was non-existent to me and several of my friends. Physical gaming events, like Pokémon distribution? Nope. Collector's edition? You must be ready to import it. Reselling/trading your games? Why would you do that? They were extremely cheap to begin with. Gaming tournaments? Only store/region specific, like your neighborhood, and it was mostly about having bragging rights.

Several of those things got better since the PS3/Xbox 360 era, and internet access, but at the time, those things were something completely alien to me and my friends. And to this date I hold an extreme grudge to physical gaming events and physical distributions, more specifically to Pokémon, which my parents somehow got me original games.
 

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,710
United States
or how SNK was huge in Latin America.
I was thinking of this when I came here.

I am American so I have nothing useful to add to the topic, but the popularity and legacy of SNK in Latin America is the thing that made me realize that there were more localized gaming cultures other than "Japan" and "Everyone Else." I've retained an interest in regional popularity ever since and I really like to hear what was really popular in places other than the United States. I'm really interested in the canon of gaming and learning about the impact and timeline of various games and brands and I try not to lose sight that what I have internalized is pretty much entirely American (or, more generously, "western").
 

MikeMyers

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,119
United Kingdom
The N64 is interesting in that it was reasonably successful enough in the US and sold on par with the SNES there...it's just elsewhere that it cratered, especially in Japan.

US SNES sales: 23.35 million
US N64 sales: 20.63 million
JP SNES sales: 17.17 million
JP N64 sales: 5.54 million
PAL/etc SNES sales: 8.58 million
PAL/etc N64 sales: 6.75 million

So it's really pretty much Japan where the N64 was the big OOF. It was just about as successful in the US as the SNES was, and in PAL regions, well, Nintendo was never really popular much there anyways (they were essentially always SEGA or Sony Land).

"Fun" fact: the Sega Saturn sold more than N64 in Japan, at 9.26 million.
The Sega Saturn outsold the N64 in Japan, but at 5.75 million. The 9.26 million number is the worldwide one.

That's also more than Dreamcast's worldwide shipped (9.13 million after Sega fire sold them all).