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Rowlf

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
645
The irony of banning a POC from discussion on racial issues because he steps a millimeter out of line on a divinely mandated orthodoxy set by pathetic, sniveling, guilt-ridden whites.....

If Papias and Whizper were banned for the posts above....what a joke this place is. Why even start threads "discussing" controversial issues if "discussion" is limited to "I agree with the agreement upon which we were agreeing?"

They didn't insult, slur, or malign anyone. They didn't imply in any way that one group was better than another. They only discussed the state of the science, without taking a stand on it either way. They committed the heresy of questioning the hivemind. Not even disagreeing with it, just questioning it.

I bet this is pretty "problematic" as well...!
In the future, please PM an administrator if you see a moderator action that you disagree with. We take all such PMs seriously, and while you may not see immediate results, we do follow-up and investigate any and all complaints we receive.

Thanks,
Rowlf
 

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
11,737
Ugh.

Just so we're clear: the seven billion humans on Earth have less genetic diversity than some species populations that number in the thousands and exist entirely on one continent. The level of genetic difference between races is biologically trivial.

I don't really have a problem with these studies on the basis of the topic being off-limits, I have a problem with them on the basis that you have to be a piss-poor biologist to consider the premise to begin with.
 
OP
OP

Snack12367

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,191
Something I touched upon was that the vast majority of humans are actually incredibly similar genetically. It's the alleles that exist in human chromosomes that allow for the most diversity, but this explained by random mutation.
 

Deleted member 4783

Oct 25, 2017
4,531
The irony of banning a POC from discussion on racial issues because he steps a millimeter out of line on a divinely mandated orthodoxy set by pathetic, sniveling, guilt-ridden whites.....

If Papias and Whizper were banned for the posts above....what a joke this place is. Why even start threads "discussing" controversial issues if "discussion" is limited to "I agree with the agreement upon which we were agreeing?"

They didn't insult, slur, or malign anyone. They didn't imply in any way that one group was better than another. They only discussed the state of the science, without taking a stand on it either way. They committed the heresy of questioning the hivemind. Not even disagreeing with it, just questioning it.

I bet this is pretty "problematic" as well...!
Aren't you always complaning about Era on GAF? I agree to a point with you, but the rest is just unnecessary banter.
 

appaws

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
153
Just go ahead and throw a "cuck" or "soy boy" or whatever else in there, you know you want to.


There's plenty to talk about regarding why this racist bullshit is starting up again and what could be done about it, without going "yeah but what is this idiotic racist bullshit actually has a point tho." It's idiotic racist bullshit pseudoscience. We don't need to waste time with debate on this bullshit as if the dinner scene in Django Unchained was legitimate scientific instruction.


He said it! He said the thing! Yaaay!

You're ridiculous.


I was going to say "idiotic and transparent" but I guess problematic works too.

Yeah, I believe in open discussion so I am fucking Richard Spencer. Make all the dumb implications about me that you want...I have been posting here and at the old place for years, my political alignments are not a secret.

I get called a cuck all the time for believing in individualism, but "soy boy," now that is some funny shit. I might start calling some people that.
 

Papias

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
62
England, UK
The fact they are friends proves nothing. There are random cuts throughout the debate videos. Is there anyway to listen to the whole thing? I'm onto the second part and it's just Murray talking about his findings, not how he proved it or validated it.

There's mirrored videos that simply lump all of the parts into one video, so apologies for the random cuts. I think it's around 14 parts in all, but it's very important just to listen through the whole thing; Flynn's responses more or less evince how 'The Bell Curve' isn't simply dismissed out of hand by psychometricians (those who study the nature of intelligence). It's treated as a scholarly (albeit controversial) work.


Race is a social construct used for categorising people. The issue with any discussion of race realism, is that there is no such thing. There are groups and discussions about the genetic difference between groups. Correction saying that different groups of people have different genes implies that the groups differ by thousands of base pairs of DNA for each different gene. Whereas much of the variation between alleles is on the matter of just a few base pairs.

I agree that race is a social construct, just like how 'red-haired' or 'freckled' people are just a social category we've conveniently created. The debate is more about geographical populations and whether population genetics has something to say about differences in intelligence. For example, Peruvians are more likely to have an increased lung-capacity because of their geographical circumstances, but no one would claim that Peruvians are an individual race of people--they're just a population in a certain region, and not every Peruvian has the same physiological traits, of course (there are vast differences within groups). Other populations have similar physiological traits: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-altitude_adaptation_in_humans

'Race' is a bad way to phrase it, and the only reason it is expressed in terms of race is due to the way the aggregation of the data takes place. In terms of IQ, Europeans tends to vary across a significant range, the British tending to have a different average IQ to those in the Balkan region, but no one should conclude that we have different European races. 'Race' is indeed a social construct!

The lack of something doesn't prove the support of something. The Bell Curve has been criticized over the data targeting, the analysis of the outcome of that data and the assumptions made on the output. An example was the assumption made that IQ remains the same throughout life, or that all human cognitive ability can be measured.

Murray acknowledges that IQ is flexible during childhood and adolescence, but more or less becomes fixed in adulthood. He actually brings this out in the YouTube debate. Also, I don't think that you need to be committed to the view that IQ is a comprehensive metric of intelligence. It measures something significant about intelligence, and it accurately predicts financial success and academic achievement, much more than any other metric we currently possess.


I agree with this in principle. Pseudo-science should be responded to, but this has absolutely been debunked. There is no such thing as race.

Race is indeed fictional, but we're not talking about this antiquated notion of 'race', but rather population groups. The former 'race' notion isn't really relevant to the debate on IQ.
 

Bán

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,307
Yeah I read this this morning. I think we need more articles like this because the idea that intelligence could be a racial trait follows pretty logically from basic knowledge and assumptions that average people have about humans. The fact that the conclusions reached from those assumptions end up being wrong is why they need to be challenged, and is the very raison d'etre of scientific research in the first place.

The assumptions:
-That races exist, determined by broad categories of consistent similar physical features such as skin colour or height or facial relief etc (I would argue this is largely true)
-That intelligence is inheritable (certainly appears to be partially true)
-Therefore that other, non-visually apparent traits, such as intelligence, can and do develop in the manner of visually obvious ones and can do so in a similarly consistent way across a racial population (this appears to be largely or completely false and is where this breaks down)
But that's the thought highway that leads people down this road, and you need good arguments to combat it because it doesn't look irrational on its face, and when it confirms people's preexisting biases it attains the look of hard truth.

I think the argument that 'race is a social construct, who knows where you draw the line' is a poor one - everyone can see that broad races exist. You won't convince anyone with this, even if the scientific rational behind it is solid. The fact that a white european can have more genetic material in common with a black african than his neighbour isn't relevant to people because the rebuttle is 'Yeah, but he'll always be whiter, so therefore could he not always be more intelligent?'
I think the argument that 'human beings are incredibly genetically similar' is a good one. The biggest differences between us are ultimately small, and typically small enough to be overcome by education and environment.
I think the argument that 'there's no evidence of any simple intelligence gene, meaning evolutionary changes to intelligence would take thousands of years' is a good one.
I think the argument that 'IQ tests aren't useful enough at measuring intelligence to be worthy of study' is a good one.

But I think if you want to combat this stuff you actually need to get those arguments out there because like I said, it's quite easy for people to assume that intelligence could be a racial trait. And if you cede the entire conversation to fascists and ethnoessentialists then you're just letting them recruit easily at your expense.
 

appaws

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
153
Aren't you always complaning about Era on GAF? I agree to a point with you, but the rest is just unnecessary banter.

Am I? I don't know. Maybe I did at some point. I like both places for different reasons.

Anyway. I got warned. I was a little bit over the top in that other post. Apologies to everyone.
 
OP
OP

Snack12367

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,191

This is more what I was thinking. The geographical population genetic variances is absolutly something discussed, it's just not the reason behind different IQ rates. Not an argument you have made, but one all the Alt-Righters jump to. They argue that IQ is a genetic factor that the gene for simply hasn't been found, ergo races are a thing, because that's the only way to explain different IQ's. They try to back their argument up while pointing to the heredity aspect of IQ pointed out in the Twin Studies. There are numerous issues with these assertions, the most obvious being is getting them to define a geo group, secondly explain how societal, nutritional and age don't factor into this. It's also a pain to get them to conceed anything with the Flynn effect.

Are we on the same page?
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,018
Yeah, I believe in open discussion so I am fucking Richard Spencer. Make all the dumb implications about me that you want...I have been posting here and at the old place for years, my political alignments are not a secret.

I get called a cuck all the time for believing in individualism, but "soy boy," now that is some funny shit. I might start calling some people that.
The only reason to call someone a soy boy is because you're afraid to call them a faggot.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,674
Who would have thought far right racists and the supposedly liberal silicon valley technologists would be a match made in heaven (read hell)?
 

Landy828

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,404
Clemson, SC
I'm from the South, my High School Class was 98% white, our valedictorian was Black...and she ran circles around everyone in Math and Science. She's incredibly successful, more so than most, in her career now.

I'm a pretty "intelligent" guy as far as IQ goes, and I couldn't hold a candle to her (I'm white). That's about all the evidence I needed to dismiss any broad brush of this BS.

Yes, stupid people may produce stupid kids (as they just pass on their ways), but those kids are also capable of anything...despite their genes. One of my closest friends is finishing his PHD, he was also the first person in his family to ever go to college...the very first. He wasn't less intelligent, his family was just lazy and often a waste of oxygen.

IQ level isn't race specific..IQ is individual specific..and the color of your skin or shape of your body, in general, has NOTHING to do with it.
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,026
Anti vaxxers. Flat earthers. People who believe in pseudo science. Seems to be a symptom of our times.
 

Papias

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
62
England, UK
This is more what I was thinking. The geographical population genetic variances is absolutly something discussed, it's just not the reason behind different IQ rates. Not an argument you have made, but one all the Alt-Righters jump to. They argue that IQ is a genetic factor that the gene for simply hasn't been found, ergo races are a thing, because that's the only way to explain different IQ's. They try to back their argument up while pointing to the heredity aspect of IQ pointed out in the Twin Studies. There are numerous issues with these assertions, the most obvious being is getting them to define a geo group, secondly explain how societal, nutritional and age don't factor into this. It's also a pain to get them to conceed anything with the Flynn effect.

Are we on the same page?

What race realists typically argue is that there just happen to be more races than we've previously thought. So for example, Northern Asians (Japan, North/South Korea, China) have a different average IQ from Southeast Asians, and so they'd argue that these are two different racial groups (since they redefine 'race' in terms of the averages found in common amongst a close collection of populations). It's definitely an artificially made distinction, no doubt. Why are the Japanese and the Korean somehow part of one 'race' just because they have similar average IQs despite them being different populations (and having other varying physical traits)? That's definitely an issue they have to respond to.

I think some of the adoption studies attempt to address the nutritional and age challenges, but it's difficult to conduct a study that will isolate societal prejudice and examine how that impacts IQ, for example. As for the Flynn Effect, I wouldn't be surprised if the average alt-right race realist doesn't know much about it, but a lot of heredetarian proponents (those who think that IQ is significantly genetic) have largely examined and appropriated the Flynn Effect, and it doesn't pose an issue to race realism.

But I think we're on the same page.


I'm from the South, my High School Class was 98% white, our valedictorian was Black...and she ran circles around everyone in Math and Science. She's incredibly successful, more so than most, in her career now.

I'm a pretty "intelligent" guy as far as IQ goes, and I couldn't hold a candle to her (I'm white). That's about all the evidence I needed to dismiss any broad brush of this BS.


Yes, stupid people may produce stupid kids (as they just pass on their ways), but those kids are also capable of anything...despite their genes. One of my closest friends is finishing his PHD, he was also the first person in his family to ever go to college...the very first. He wasn't less intelligent, his family was just lazy and often a waste of oxygen.

IQ level isn't race specific..IQ is individual specific..and the color of your skin or shape of your body, in general, has NOTHING to do with it.

You can't rely upon anectodal evidence when trying to respond to the claim that the average (or mean) IQ score of a particular racial group is 115 or 85. Averages always admit of exceptions that are on the far ends of the bell curve. They are definitely many eminent racial minorities who are geniuses. The question is whether certain groups have a greater proportion of geniuses than other groups, and what exactly explains this disparity? Is it genetics, environment, both, or neither? That's the central issue.
 

Erik Twice

Member
Nov 2, 2017
685
One key tell that these guys are racists is the step they take after asserting that black peoples have lower IQs. They take it for granted that it couldn't ever change, and imply that black people deserve what they get.
That's the thing, isn't it? It's not just the idea that black or Romani or other people are less intelligent, but the idea that people who are less deserve bad things to happen to them. That being "less intelligent" means you are less of a person or less worthy. And, sadly, it's not only racists who think that.

Because there's already a group of people with lower IQs: The mentally disabled. And they are indeed seen as being lesser human beings, if human at all. The "intelligence" and "IQ" debate is more often than not a front for treating other people like garbage.

--

Personally, I hate this IQ garbage. It's such a narrow, stupid, arbitrary way to define "intelligence". The Flynn effect and societal development should throw it all by the window, unless one thinks everyone a century ago was mentally impared.
 

Avinash117

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,602
I remember quite often that Destiny debates racial realist people. Sometimes they are educated people( mostly they really aren't), but what I think it usually comes to is that these people really, really wants to believe racial science. No amount of facts are going to change their mind, they just want to believe its true.
 
I remember quite often that Destiny debates racial realist people. Sometimes they are educated people( mostly they really aren't), but what I think it usually comes to is that these people really, really wants to believe racial science. No amount of facts are going to change their mind, they just want to believe its true.

It's very easy, and very human, for a person to slip from "I want to know what's right" into "I want something to be right about". Things like pseudoscience really leverage this weakness. One of the better definitions of pseudoscience I've seen is "using scientifically unsupported theory, research or rationalization to reach a desired conclusion."

At any given time, the popular pseudoscience of the era is a reflection of what people desperately want to be true - or what they wish to deny is true.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,085
People just looking for validation in their urges to call me a nigger
 

Creatchee

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,805
Sarasota, Florida
Can't get some people to sign off on humans causing global warming with their constant mistreatment of the environment, but flash them some bad, intellectually dishonest science that says darker skinned people are dumber than them, and they eat that shit up like candy.
 

Moff

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,782
Can't get some people to sign off on humans causing global warming with their constant mistreatment of the environment, but flash them some bad, intellectually dishonest science that says darker skinned people are dumber than them, and they eat that shit up like candy.
it's the same thing, though isn't it, they'd just rather listen to an extreme minority of scientists that reflect their views
 

Cocaloch

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
4,562
Where the Fenians Sleep
The rise of DNA tests that supposedly tell you your ethnicity isn't exactly helping here either. People need to understand that social categories are best understood social scientifically, not scientifically. Positivism is how we got into this mess in the first place.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,775
There are so many angles to shit on the racist premise of race science that I'm sufferring from choice paralysis.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Race is a social artefact, but that isn't really the point here. The question is: Do genes responsible for physical appearance, specifically for the parts of it generally considered "racial", also affect brain development? That's what those race scientists' claims essentially boil down to. And I think that's worth looking into, if only to lay the idea to rest once and for all.
Real science shouldn't be unwelcome. If scientists can prove once and for all that race doesn't matter, we can finally get over the discussion, because it will come up again and again for all eternity if we don't. If scientists find race does matter, at least we know. Still better than living in denial.

I personally heavily doubt "race" could have anything to do with intelligence, but genetics certainly affect brain development, so I would expect regional differences.
The irony of banning a POC from discussion on racial issues because he steps a millimeter out of line on a divinely mandated orthodoxy set by pathetic, sniveling, guilt-ridden whites.....

If Papias and Whizper were banned for the posts above....what a joke this place is. Why even start threads "discussing" controversial issues if "discussion" is limited to "I agree with the agreement upon which we were agreeing?"

They didn't insult, slur, or malign anyone. They didn't imply in any way that one group was better than another. They only discussed the state of the science, without taking a stand on it either way. They committed the heresy of questioning the hivemind. Not even disagreeing with it, just questioning it.

I bet this is pretty "problematic" as well...!
Just to clarify on that post, geneticists have been doing research on this. For a long time. And have repeatedly found no link between skin color and biological predispositions. In fact, most of their research has found stronger similarities with intra-connected than inter-connected groups.

http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/hcrcl29&div=7&id=&page=

This is a good read that covers a lot of the evolution on Race and why its deemed a social rather than biological construct, which cites a lot fo the information I just relayed to you. So when someone says race is a social construct but then goes on to suggest research should look into genetic explanations of our characteristics that relate to skin color, they are implying racism given that the definition of racism is to attribute characteristics to others based on skin color.

Yeah, I believe in open discussion so I am fucking Richard Spencer. Make all the dumb implications about me that you want...I have been posting here and at the old place for years, my political alignments are not a secret.

I get called a cuck all the time for believing in individualism, but "soy boy," now that is some funny shit. I might start calling some people that.
Well open discussion is all fine and well but racism is against the rules here. Also soy boy is another hilariously uneducated position that buys into the pseduscience angle of soy making males more sensitive (IE a total fabrication), so if you want to use it just know that its likely more insulting to be taking such a position in the first place than it is to be called it.
 
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mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,775
Exactly. Combine that with the "my opinion is just as valid as the overwhelming majority's opinion" mindset, and here we are.
uZC5fF9.gif

Same stupidity, different topic
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,405
People that say "I don't believe in race science but we need to hear them out" are always, always right wing. It's the "just asking questions" of this particular subject. Big coincidence I'm sure. It's been done so many, many times that it's hard to give such arguments the "fair shake" they "deserve." So I guess blame all the alt-righters that came before you for wearing out the strategy.

And it doesn't matter how many times it is debunked, as long as the handful of notable proponents out there are still pushing it, there will still be people saying we need to give it a listen....again....
 

Tagg

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,717
From what I've read in the past, the overwhelming opinion in the scientific community seems to be that this connection between race and intelligence is bullshit (and most certainly unproven to any degree of certainty).
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,775
People that say "I don't believe in race science but we need to hear them out" are always, always right wing. It's the "just asking questions" of this particular subject. Big coincidence I'm sure. It's been done so many, many times that it's hard to give such arguments the "fair shake" they "deserve." So I guess blame all the alt-righters that came before you for wearing out the strategy.

And it doesn't matter how many times it is debunked, as long as the handful of notable proponents out there are still pushing it, there will still be people saying we need to give it a listen....again....
You would think this kind of shit would have been dropped with the whole evolution debate or the tobacco industry or something but nope we're doing that song and dance for everything instead.
 

ShyMel

Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
3,483
Oct 25, 2017
2,405
I'm sure someone who calls us "pathetic, sniveling, guilt-ridden whites...." is both genuinely concerned with civil debate, AND doesn't have ulterior motives for defending those particular POVs.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,705
This was a response I got for posting the Flynn Effect in the Debate the Alt Right reddit.

good thing that James R. Flynn, the man who identified the Flynn Effect, also published empirical results demonstrating the narrowing of that aforementioned "IQ gap"

The Flynn Effect was first called 'The Flynn Effect' in the Bell Curve.

Come on, dude. Alt-right and race realist people are gonna have a field day with you if you don't know basic facts about this debate. They discuss it in length in their book, and being unaware of their responses is gonna work against you if you want to engage in the debate. Watch the debate between Flynn and Murray that I linked to above.

By the way (addressed to people in this thread), certain articles like the one in the OP and the ones on Vox and other news outlets tend to misrepresent the debate. It's better to actually read what the scholars themselves argue. James Flynn is a fantastic place to start.

if you have so much more of a deeper and nuanced view of psychology than i do, you can try debunking the flynn effect yourself and explaining how the fact that the racial iq gap is narrowing at a swift rate over an extremely short period of time doesn't knock a central pillar out from the idea of race realism

i'm tired of being the one who has to do all the writing, if you're gonna "both sides" me on this maybe you can write the first volley of paragraphs this time - because no one seems to ever grace me with a return volley
 
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Oct 25, 2017
1,705
The irony of banning a POC from discussion on racial issues because he steps a millimeter out of line on a divinely mandated orthodoxy set by pathetic, sniveling, guilt-ridden whites.....

If Papias and Whizper were banned for the posts above....what a joke this place is. Why even start threads "discussing" controversial issues if "discussion" is limited to "I agree with the agreement upon which we were agreeing?"

They didn't insult, slur, or malign anyone. They didn't imply in any way that one group was better than another. They only discussed the state of the science, without taking a stand on it either way. They committed the heresy of questioning the hivemind. Not even disagreeing with it, just questioning it.

I bet this is pretty "problematic" as well...!

they committed the heresy of complaining there was no scientific consensus, getting linked to significant scientific consensus backed by research and experiment, and then continuing to complain that there was no scientific consensus

they violated the sacred rule "reading is FUNdamental", and in fact did not discuss the state of science at all
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,432
It's so weird that the first people that embrace these "studies" are the same ones who don't trust scientists. Then who the hell did your research? Professional bowlers?
 

Dragonelite

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
544
My favourite thing is when racist redditors post IQ charts showing central Africa apparently demonstrating a comparatively low average IQ, without taking into account nutritional intake, school quality, parental education and the many other important things that influence a child's intellectual development. But no, it's because they're genetically inferior.

Give me a break.

I can remember a talk being done on village children by just giving a vitamin tablet it was enough to boost their IQ with 10 points or so compared to village children without being giving a vitamin tablet.
 

Shoeless

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,998
I'm a bit confused as to why conservatives, who are largely faith-based and anti-intellectual anyway, would suddenly cling to pseudo-science to prove their point. Doesn't that kind'a... sort'a fly in the face of their anti-intellectual, religious-based, feeling-founded reasoning if they suddenly go, "THERE! CHARTS AND LOGISTICAL FACT! HOW DO YA' LIKE *THEM* SCIENTIFICAL APPLES!?"

I mean, if iPhones obviously operate on the fluttering movement of the wings of angels, then who cares whether you have basic electrical principles and charts to explain this stuff?
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,018
I'm a bit confused as to why conservatives, who are largely faith-based and anti-intellectual anyway, would suddenly cling to pseudo-science to prove their point. Doesn't that kind'a... sort'a fly in the face of their anti-intellectual, religious-based, feeling-founded reasoning if they suddenly go, "THERE! CHARTS AND LOGISTICAL FACT! HOW DO YA' LIKE *THEM* SCIENTIFICAL APPLES!?"

I mean, if iPhones obviously operate on the fluttering movement of the wings of angels, then who cares whether you have basic electrical principles and charts to explain this stuff?
Villains don't have to obey the rules.
 

Mortemis

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,415
Remember the racist user here, econ, who was spouting this kind of pseudoscience bull a few days ago:

I was gonna say that this shit is peddled in this forum and the last one not insignificantly, but I'm glad you brought out facts.

Well this and those that put themselves in this very thread.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,643
I remember quite often that Destiny debates racial realist people. Sometimes they are educated people( mostly they really aren't), but what I think it usually comes to is that these people really, really wants to believe racial science. No amount of facts are going to change their mind, they just want to believe its true.

People just looking for validation in their urges to call me a nigger

Fundamentally its these two, and that there is a sizeable group of people who want "evidence" for their "debates".

The ultimate goal is not actually to discuss anything in good faith though & we all know they have no intention of listening to anything that proves the bigotry wrong. What they want is to normalise the precepts into mainstream — repeatedly featuring them in discussion against normal viewpoints will eventually equalise them in public perception.

The most dangerous thing though is that it doesn't matter if the majority of people know its BS, but enough people who are gatekeepers believe it, from school teachers like that one in the other thread, to law enforcement, the guy interviewing you for a job, politicians and policy makers, and other influential types like Peter Thiel, data companies like Palantir do, and a non trivial number of hidden silicon valley types who input data into their statistical models and machine learning models do... and the effects of that will be felt for a long time to come.
 

Avinash117

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,602
It's very easy, and very human, for a person to slip from "I want to know what's right" into "I want something to be right about". Things like pseudoscience really leverage this weakness. One of the better definitions of pseudoscience I've seen is "using scientifically unsupported theory, research or rationalization to reach a desired conclusion."

At any given time, the popular pseudoscience of the era is a reflection of what people desperately want to be true - or what they wish to deny is true.
Yes that would explain it. I will also say that pseudoscience like racial realism is partially backed from the person's already previously held beliefs and the racial science is just one way to confirm on what they already believed.

I'm a bit confused as to why conservatives, who are largely faith-based and anti-intellectual anyway, would suddenly cling to pseudo-science to prove their point. Doesn't that kind'a... sort'a fly in the face of their anti-intellectual, religious-based, feeling-founded reasoning if they suddenly go, "THERE! CHARTS AND LOGISTICAL FACT! HOW DO YA' LIKE *THEM* SCIENTIFICAL APPLES!?"

I mean, if iPhones obviously operate on the fluttering movement of the wings of angels, then who cares whether you have basic electrical principles and charts to explain this stuff?

They are anti-intellectual in a sense that academia is largely left-leaning that generally gives validity to left-leaning beliefs. Conservatism is about maintaining the status quo, academia use the sciences to challenge that, but not on purpose. When there's evidence that contradicts the conservative beliefs they lash back. However, they only lash back because of the perceived attacks on their beliefs; they'll back any other intellectual that supports them, like Jordan Peterson.

Scientific racism was used to justify racism and slavery, and the Nazis used if to justify their atrocities. There's plenty of evidence from years ago that science was used to push for an agenda, but science has moved on from that mainly and there are methods to how to do things now.

The people that typically believe in race realism crap are laymen or the average person that has no scientific background, would disagree with evidence that contradicts them, and doesn't even understand the science in the first place.

I will say that even happens on the left-leaning side with vaccines. Additionally, plenty of people regardless on which side their own would generally have some form of beliefs that can be considered conservative or a universal truth like gender. There's still debate that gender is binary even in left-wing circles. People won't accept science because they are anti-intellectual; the premise is wrong in the first place. They accept science if it agrees with them. It also doesn't help that average Americans don't know enough about science.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,826
they committed the heresy of complaining there was no scientific consensus, getting linked to significant scientific consensus backed by research and experiment, and then continuing to complain that there was no scientific consensus

they violated the sacred rule "reading is FUNdamental", and in fact did not discuss the state of science at all
I kinda wish the mods wouldve held off for a little bit. Maybe he could have been shown the right path.

But I don't mind the strict approach when it comes to potential racism. Better to err on the side of caution.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,579
Racoon City
If it was really unwelcomed it wouldn't be making a comeback. This is the natural outcome of the "let's give them a platform, people will laugh and dismiss them" ideology.