Haven't watched the show yet, but I found out that an artist I love (Scott C, lead artist for Psychonauts among other things) did some art for an episode in this. Wasn't necessarily planning to watch, but now I probably will.
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Some people think the gold stuff is space semen lol. It's what impregnated the mothers to be of the Academy members.
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I read the first volume and IMO the show is way better. Especially in that I feel like there are a lot of plot points that are given more room to breathe on the show.
Netflix usually gives their shows a month or so before announcing renewal plans. So won't know for a bit.
First they announce renewal, then they announce timelines much later.
I would expect an announcement sometime by the end of March, I can't imagine they won't take a shot at a second season unless it was crazy expensive and had a really low viewership.
The biggest question for me is:
Did Reginald know about the apocalypse? As in not specifics but he knew it had something to do with the moon?
Mom was sewing embroidery with the moon collapsing. Was that just foreshadowing or did she know too?
He sent Luther up to the moon. Yes it was to give him a job but he was he really there to watch for the apocalypse?
And obviously he suppressed Vanya, at least he seemed to know she had the potential to do a lot of harm.
Mom was sewing embroidery with the moon collapsing. Was that just foreshadowing or did she know too?
He sent Luther up to the moon. Yes it was to give him a job but he was he really there to watch for the apocalypse?
And obviously he suppressed Vanya, at least he seemed to know she had the potential to do a lot of harm.
I think...
...he knew the world was going to end, but didn't know how. I would even go so far as to assert he was aware one of the children born spontaneously on the same day would be the cause of the apocalypse but, again, he didn't know which one. Which would explain why he gathered as many as he could - he knew they'd have powers, so by keeping an eye on them he could prevent the end of the world.
As for their mum, she was reprogrammed to not act when there was danger present.
As for their mum, she was reprogrammed to not act when there was danger present.
That makes sense.
And yes I know Mom was reprogrammed. Diego noticed and shut her down.
But why was she sewing the moon. Was that just a foreshadowing Easter egg?
And I guess things might have been different if Klaus conjured their dad as soon as possible.
But why was she sewing the moon. Was that just a foreshadowing Easter egg?
And I guess things might have been different if Klaus conjured their dad as soon as possible.
The first half more sets up the plot and characters.
Things pick up in the second half. The last 2-3 episodes is when shit really goes down.
Thanks for the info. Should I binge the rest? Or take it slowly?
That's your call.
I couldn't help it and binged the rest as it gets really good but now I'm stuck waiting for Season 2 lol.
Wife and I loved the show. I will agree with Luther being Lutherish was maddening. That was a disappointment, but I could see it leading to possibly a proper character development arch for him in Season 2 if it gets picked up. Show was too great, because I really fell for so many characters like Hazel, Klaus, Reg, Vanya and more. And there is so much more to unpack and learn. Really appreciate this show and thanks to Netflix for it. (And the original creators :P )
Yup. It's a pet peeve of mine ('characters refusing to share information because...') since many bad shows use it to fatten plot/extend episodes. But it was intentional here because of the trauma, so I did my best to let it slide even though it did lessen some of the fun. Like you said, a frustrating watch at times.
I did like the entire ride and it absolutely got much more stronger in the end when the characters had less of an excuse to keep things from each other. With that strong note of an ending I am all in on a Season 2.
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I loved the show but there are a few things I'm curious about
Five obviously shows the capacity to travel forward in time with relative ease, and the show makes it very clear that going back in time is much harder. However he literally had a briefcase to go whenever he wanted. Also at the point he does decide to dip, he is already in the past, so going forward in time shouldn't be as hard for him, he just needed to figure out how to control that.
In the end it worked out since young five threw everyone off his trail.
I hope the biggest retcon they do is bringing Ben back for real. I was hooked with the Ben reveal at the start of the show.
In the end it worked out since young five threw everyone off his trail.
I hope the biggest retcon they do is bringing Ben back for real. I was hooked with the Ben reveal at the start of the show.
It's a brilliantly fascinating show that also demonstrates an 'old school' style of storytelling and character development.
Which is to say, I think some of the feedback and a couple of the criticisms of it show how difficult it is to pull off extremely flawed characters effectively.
Explaining:
It's a fine line which the series doesn't always get right, but for most of the part I think they've done a fantastic job, as the psychology of it all makes a lot of sense. The characters are defined by their trauma / core wounds, which creates the conflicts and drama (and their mistakes), which drives the story.
I also like how they don't try to
And as its main message, I think it's very, very successful.
Which is to say, I think some of the feedback and a couple of the criticisms of it show how difficult it is to pull off extremely flawed characters effectively.
Explaining:
Every single member of the Academy are either physically and or emotionally scarred by their powers, father or both. Which explains why they're all horribly broken (even the ones who seem 'normal' from a psychological point of view), and make the mistakes they do.
1 is a giant man child, emotionally immature but was always deemed to be a leader, not because he was competent but because he was actually the most easily influenced by his father.
2 is emotionally stunted and insecure, despite having embraced his abilities the most. He's petty and jealous of how his father looked to 1 as a leader, and turned to the only person who gave him emotional support - a robot mother.
3 has had the most accomplished life through overuse of her powers, to the point of her using them on both her partner and child has left her unwilling to want to use them at all. Which makes her a liability in every single physical and emotional conflict in the series.
4 tries to escape his powers having been traumatised by them and his father pushing him too far, resulting in literally being haunted, turning to substance abuse to dull them - meaning he's overly flippant, selfish and stuck in an unreality.
5 is pushed to run away from home, which ages him (figuratively and literally) to the point he becomes cynical, distant and single minded. Much like a less stunted version of his father.
6 is literally killed in action.
7 is brought up to be an isolated but powerful sociopath, before being mindwiped to believe that she's beneath everyone's attention and thus craves the approval of everyone else around her, which makes her easily manipulated both psychologically and emotionally.
Every single one of those flaws are a root cause for an audience member to say they find the character annoying, or is the reason behind a "why didn't they just do x" question that pops up. It's also partly the reason why it may feel a tad slow at first (I thought the pacing was fine, personally) - many of these traits and flaws are established early and then layered in subsequent episodes, but become the reasons why much of the story progresses. It's very heavily character driven despite the ticking time bomb plot device, due to the father's abuse (which includes him faking his own death) having delayed effects on the characters, which we get privy to by seeing the relationships the family have and their childhoods.
1 is a giant man child, emotionally immature but was always deemed to be a leader, not because he was competent but because he was actually the most easily influenced by his father.
2 is emotionally stunted and insecure, despite having embraced his abilities the most. He's petty and jealous of how his father looked to 1 as a leader, and turned to the only person who gave him emotional support - a robot mother.
3 has had the most accomplished life through overuse of her powers, to the point of her using them on both her partner and child has left her unwilling to want to use them at all. Which makes her a liability in every single physical and emotional conflict in the series.
4 tries to escape his powers having been traumatised by them and his father pushing him too far, resulting in literally being haunted, turning to substance abuse to dull them - meaning he's overly flippant, selfish and stuck in an unreality.
5 is pushed to run away from home, which ages him (figuratively and literally) to the point he becomes cynical, distant and single minded. Much like a less stunted version of his father.
6 is literally killed in action.
7 is brought up to be an isolated but powerful sociopath, before being mindwiped to believe that she's beneath everyone's attention and thus craves the approval of everyone else around her, which makes her easily manipulated both psychologically and emotionally.
Every single one of those flaws are a root cause for an audience member to say they find the character annoying, or is the reason behind a "why didn't they just do x" question that pops up. It's also partly the reason why it may feel a tad slow at first (I thought the pacing was fine, personally) - many of these traits and flaws are established early and then layered in subsequent episodes, but become the reasons why much of the story progresses. It's very heavily character driven despite the ticking time bomb plot device, due to the father's abuse (which includes him faking his own death) having delayed effects on the characters, which we get privy to by seeing the relationships the family have and their childhoods.
It's a fine line which the series doesn't always get right, but for most of the part I think they've done a fantastic job, as the psychology of it all makes a lot of sense. The characters are defined by their trauma / core wounds, which creates the conflicts and drama (and their mistakes), which drives the story.
I also like how they don't try to
redeem Reginald's mistreatment of the children. He clearly does care and that's shown in both subtle and overt ways, but they don't have him framed as a person who we should forgive or even understand. This is very much a story of how parental abuse and careless treatment of any child can destroy more than just the child's life.
Well said. Regardless of who I dislike in this show, I can't say that I don't understand why they're the way they are.
Our friends and I stomached through this. Some interesting moments, but the cutesy, aimless writing, filler, and Luther fucking everything up to an absurdly stupid degree was too much to bare. The "classic pop song playing over fight/shootout" got old after the second time and Luther's suit just never stopped being comically out of place, ever. I also found an astounding lack of urgency as we approached the finale and supposed "end of the world".
Sorry Umbrella Academy.
Russian Doll is still at the top of the list for me from Netflix originals this season.
Vanya is loose and about to trigger the apocalypse and it felt like most of the crew was just chilling in bowling alley for the majority of the episode.
Russian Doll is still at the top of the list for me from Netflix originals this season.
Why would Luther, who understands the pain and torture of being sealed away on the moon, do the exact same thing to his sister who he clearly sees is in the same pain and in a very unstable place at that moment? It was maddening. They absolutely should have flipped it where the entire team was for locking her away and he was the only one to say "no".
That actually seemed pretty straight forward. Vanya had tried to murder Allison and Luther was already in kind of a bad place while also being more and more open with her about his feelings. If anything Luther should have killed Vanya when he was "hugging" her and that would have avoided the end of the world.
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I think that's the crux of it - frustration will come from not feeling a character's decision is natural rather than plot generated, but creating the nuance of that takes time as the audience needs examples early and often. And it's rare for characters to have that space and time to breathe in modern visual stories because studios are usually terrified of the pace not being quick enough or that the audience will 'check out' of the narrative.
It's a very hard position to be in. Make it too obvious and you get called out for poor writing. Make it too subtle and you get called out for it being "filler" or being too slow. I mean, I understand we're all wary of Netflix having too many episodes, but every single episode of this series had a purpose to pay off, character-wise or plot wise. I thought The Day that Wasn't, in particular, was heartbreaking but brilliant in informing just how damaged these characters are and how the smallest decisions they make can make huge differences and still remain true to their character- but it's also the moment where
the show openly declares it's a tragedy by showing that they'll never be truly happy as long as they attempt to do the right thing in their current circumstances.
I loved the Hazel and Agnes side story, was really cute. It's also refreshing to see a unique pairing of significantly older woman with younger guy! It's the other way around in like 95% of all other media.
That's a great take. Makes me appreciate the show more.
The only character I didn't like at all was Leonard.
He was just utterly convincing and right at the very end he literally becomes his dad. I get what they were going at but it was just such a drastic change.
Even though he was desperate at that point.
Fantastic death scene for him though. Death by cutlery.
Even though he was desperate at that point.
Fantastic death scene for him though. Death by cutlery.
Frankly, it only worked for me because of the big age gap (as well as her being so adorable), as it ended up feeling a lot more endearing and believable despite how rushed the romance was.
If it was some hot lady, then yea, I'd prolly agree with Cha Cha saying that he just wanted to "get his dick wet" lol
If it was some hot lady, then yea, I'd prolly agree with Cha Cha saying that he just wanted to "get his dick wet" lol
Also, it's a circle of abuse.
He's become the figure who he so desperately wanted to be and look up to, but rather than the cold logic of his father, its through the raw emotion of fear due to nearly losing the one person he loves the most.
It's the decision of someone who sees the world as a slightly childish black and white, which is very much the core of his character.
Vanya didn't "try" to murder Allison, it was an accident when she was pushed to the edge for not being able to control her rage/powers (although a better written version of this scene would have been the out of control flying objects slicing her neck, not Vanya doing it with her bow, but w/e)
She was clearly remorseful and sorry. The tremendous relief that washes over her when she finds out Allison is still alive in front of Luther shows this. Even Allison the actual victim was begging Luther to let her free/forgive her. His actions very literally destroyed the world, and no one even called him out on it. He basically lit a fuse to an atom bomb and went "aw dang you guys now what??"
She was clearly remorseful and sorry. The tremendous relief that washes over her when she finds out Allison is still alive in front of Luther shows this. Even Allison the actual victim was begging Luther to let her free/forgive her. His actions very literally destroyed the world, and no one even called him out on it. He basically lit a fuse to an atom bomb and went "aw dang you guys now what??"
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Yup. There's a 31 year age difference between the actors, that's pretty awesome for a tv series to do, flip the stereotype. And Agnes really was so damn adorable!
please spoiler tag things people. especially stuff that seemingly happens at the end of the season
So about the Hargreeves "Prologue"
Really can't wait to see how they play things in season two.
I had not realized it the first time I watched it for some reason, but right before Hargreeves leaves his wife from either another planet or the future, he frees a bunch of lights from a Jar.
My wife thinks that those lights are the children, it makes sense with the way that the show has chosen to change the store up, from what I recall in the Comics the kids came from a cosmic WWF match that caused space seed to fly across the universe. I haven't really looked around the net for thoughts on the show but is this the most common theory right now?
Obviously this would then make Luther and Allison's relationship harder to accept outside of the fact that they have believed all their lives that they are not actually related.
I'm also going to go ahead and say that I think Ben is alive again, because why would a ghost de-age?
My wife thinks that those lights are the children, it makes sense with the way that the show has chosen to change the store up, from what I recall in the Comics the kids came from a cosmic WWF match that caused space seed to fly across the universe. I haven't really looked around the net for thoughts on the show but is this the most common theory right now?
Obviously this would then make Luther and Allison's relationship harder to accept outside of the fact that they have believed all their lives that they are not actually related.
I'm also going to go ahead and say that I think Ben is alive again, because why would a ghost de-age?
Really can't wait to see how they play things in season two.
Yes, excellent post really.
It also shows why Klaus and Number 5 got the most praise (either as characters or as the actors performances)
Klaus development made him overcome his past and powers (which lead him into being selfish and disconnected from reality) by a story of caring for someone else, and that being a turning point on his character.
Number 5 in other hand embraces his powers and as you said, became like his father. What is to kill some people in order to avoid the end of the world? They will die anyway if we don't act. That is the mindset of the father. What matters to break a few eggs (children) if it is to avoid the apocalypse?
Number 5 in other hand embraces his powers and as you said, became like his father. What is to kill some people in order to avoid the end of the world? They will die anyway if we don't act. That is the mindset of the father. What matters to break a few eggs (children) if it is to avoid the apocalypse?
I enjoyed the series, but I am left wondering why no special children other than the Umbrella Academy 7 are ever mentioned? Are there a ton of other super heroes or what?
I imagine some died or became villains.
They're leaving that open for future seasons, since they've really diverged from the comics now.
So my question is what's up with the timeline. They were born in 1989, same as me, and they're all about my age. Which means they should have all of our modern technology but instead it looks like the world has been stuck in the 80's in terms of technology. Is this a stylistic choice without any actual point or is there a reason for this?
I think there must be but it's just not addressed. I assume future seasons would expand the roster of empowered people.
I think there must be but it's just not addressed. I assume future seasons would expand the roster of empowered people.
Noooo hoping they already working on a s2 and just sitting on the announcement and it's not going to be a super long wait.
Fx budget gonna be lower b/c of
😭
Fx budget gonna be lower b/c of
pogo
I imagine it is to avoid the issue that some shows like this do. Almost every problem in the series could have been avoided if cell phones and text messages existed.
Yeah - I think it's super telling that in regards to the latter point -
It's probably no coincidence that Number 5:
- Is substantially closer to his father's apparent visual/physical age, (albeit from a mental point of view) than his siblings.
- Has the closest relationship with what could be considered an object (Dolores - only a few steps down from his robotic mother).
Of course, the difference is, his character arc allows him to choose compassion by the end, although even that isn't too far from his father's motives, albeit without the cold, alien distance that his father constructed.
I suspect, from a creative point of view, this is why he's in the body of his child self - it prevents the family (and Five himself) from seeing a visual representation of their father, and prevents him from taking that space. As capable as Five is, he's still limited by appearing as a child and thus is never truly able to command his family in the same way his age and experience would otherwise attempt.
Klaus is constructed in a way that Ben is essentially his conscience, but it's super interesting that they don't go too far with that to make him utterly pathetic - while Ben is constantly nudging him to do the right thing, Klaus himself shows redeemable and relatable qualities even without Ben's influence, keeping the audience from totally dismissing him. Sheenhan's performance may seem a bit OTT, but I think he plays the 'hidden depths' part of the carefree clown really well. There's never a point where you can't see the pain in his eyes, even when he's goofing off, and there's enough inner conflict throughout to show he has a sense of responsibility to others.
- Is substantially closer to his father's apparent visual/physical age, (albeit from a mental point of view) than his siblings.
- Has the closest relationship with what could be considered an object (Dolores - only a few steps down from his robotic mother).
Of course, the difference is, his character arc allows him to choose compassion by the end, although even that isn't too far from his father's motives, albeit without the cold, alien distance that his father constructed.
I suspect, from a creative point of view, this is why he's in the body of his child self - it prevents the family (and Five himself) from seeing a visual representation of their father, and prevents him from taking that space. As capable as Five is, he's still limited by appearing as a child and thus is never truly able to command his family in the same way his age and experience would otherwise attempt.
Klaus is constructed in a way that Ben is essentially his conscience, but it's super interesting that they don't go too far with that to make him utterly pathetic - while Ben is constantly nudging him to do the right thing, Klaus himself shows redeemable and relatable qualities even without Ben's influence, keeping the audience from totally dismissing him. Sheenhan's performance may seem a bit OTT, but I think he plays the 'hidden depths' part of the carefree clown really well. There's never a point where you can't see the pain in his eyes, even when he's goofing off, and there's enough inner conflict throughout to show he has a sense of responsibility to others.
Oh, and thanks to anyone taking the time reading my crazy walls of spoiler text ;-)
Thought it was alright. Felt slow in some parts, really predictable for most of the story beats, and the "kind of incongruous song plays over fight sequence" thing got old fast. Still, I was pretty interested in seeing it all play out and really enjoyed Klaus and Number 5.
Liked Hazel and Cha-cha and hope they show up in season 2, but it seems like Hazel would at least have no reason to. Also hoping they delve more into the other kids that didn't get adopted if the series is renewed.
Wonder what happened to Ben since
Also fuck Hargreeves.
And finally I got a chuckle from the detail that
Liked Hazel and Cha-cha and hope they show up in season 2, but it seems like Hazel would at least have no reason to. Also hoping they delve more into the other kids that didn't get adopted if the series is renewed.
Wonder what happened to Ben since
Klaus says he "died violently" but he doesn't have any wounds like the other ghosts Klaus summons. If in s2 they go back and Ben is alive again they might not bother answering but I'm curious if he died on a mission or what.
Also fuck Hargreeves.
His lack of empathy and compassion caused nearly every aspect of the apocalypse to begin with. Real great job raising a superhero team when you have to kill yourself to even get them all under the same roof as adults. Was especially annoyed when he did the whole "you aren't special" routine with Harold and then walked away while an audience pointed and laughed at the kid, like c'mon man do you want serial killers, because this is how you get serial killers.
And finally I got a chuckle from the detail that
they all still had bowling shoes on during the final confrontation with Vanya.
Hazel got teleported out for some reason, so he's definitely in the next season. I think there's still room for an expanded redemption arc from him. Cha-cha appeared to die. I'm not sure there's anywhere interesting to take that character so that's probably good, though I wouldn't be surprised if she showed up again too.
I'm not sure if I read this somewhere or if I just inferred it, but I was under the impression that
he went bad and the rest of the kids wound up having to fight him, which ended with him dying. The inscription on his statue even said something about giving up the darkness and returning to the light, or something like that.
Aside from like Daredevil and JJS1, I feel similarly. Definitely helped that they had a lot of varied locations to go to lol