• Light/Dark
  • Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

The Sonic series has potential to triumph over Mario when it comes to playable female characters

stinkyguy666

stinkyguy666

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,147
gonna be careful with how i word this thread because when i made a similar point on reddit i ended up with an angry mario fan calling me an "sjw sonic f*g" lol

They've recently added Toadette as a playable character in New Super Mario Bros. U who can transform into Peachette with the Super Crown, which is cool! To me it feels pretty obvious that they wanted Peach to be playable but knew it wouldn't make sense since the story is about her being held hostage in her own home.

Overall when it comes to non-male characters in mainline Mario games, you've got:
  • Peach (Mario Bros. 2, Super Princess Peach, 3D World)
  • Rosalina (3D World)
  • Toadette (NSMB U DELUXE)
And their appearances as "fully playable" kind of just end there. Compare this to playable male characters in mainline Mario games:
  • Mario (all of the platformer games obviously)
  • Luigi (all except SM64, Sunshine & Odyssey)
  • Wario (SM64 DS)
  • Toad (NSMB Wii, NSMB U)
(I was going to include "yelllow Toad" & "blue Toad" as different characters but that would've been a bit of a cop out). It's not about the amount of characters, it's more about the rate at which they appear as 'playable'.

Comparing this to non-male Sonic characters and we have:
  • Amy Rose (Adventure, Adventure 2 [multiplayer only], Heroes, Advance 1, Advance 2, Advance 3, '06, all the Boom games except Shattered Crystal)
  • Cream the Rabbit (Advance 2, Advance 3, Heroes)
  • Rouge the Bat (Adventure 2, Heroes, Shadow the Edgehog [co-op only], '06)
  • Blaze the Cat (Rush, Rush Adventure, '06)
  • Tikal (Adventure 2 [multiplayer only])
  • Sticks the Badger (All the Boom games)
Heck even Tails, who is a boy, is pretty gender non-conforming in his design and has a nice gender neutral yellow:
latest

It's no wonder that my younger cousin thought Tails was a girl when she saw him.

Say what you will "blah blah sonic's shitty friends" drivel, but I feel like this is one aspect that where the Sonic series is actually really ahead of Mario. But there's potential to be better than it currently is. Mania, for all its praise and as much as I love it, didn't feature Amy as a playable character in any aspect. She was never really a playable character in the classic so I never really expected her to be included but I'm fairly confident she will be in the sequel. This is just one of the trappings of sticking so closely to classic Sonic's 'world', as he has fewer characters to choose from and I can only imagine the shitshow that will happen in the Sonic fandom if they start making classic versions of modern Sonic characters. But the framework is there and they have some really cool non-male characters in this franchise.

I mean, there must be reason why the Sonic franchise has always been statistically most popular with girls.
 
Last edited:
Trrzs

Trrzs

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,144
Don't forget about Daisy in Super Mario Run.

Woah woah woah woo ohhh ohhh! show me your love! Aaay! 🎶🎵
 
Neoxon

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,694
Houston, TX
I'm just hoping that we get playable Amy in Sonic Mania 1 or 2 (if/when that happens). But you have a point, Cream was OP in Sonic Advance 2 & Blaze was fun in Sonic Rush.
 
Toxi

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,551
Daily reminder that Blaze is the best post-Genesis Sonic character by far and is more fun than Sonic himself in all of her playable appearances.
 
OP
OP
stinkyguy666

stinkyguy666

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,147
ZanderEzekial said:
Why are you only counting mainline Mario titles, but all your examples for Sonic come from multiplayer modes and portable games?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
by "mainline" I mean platformers. I've included Super Princess Peach, which by all accounts is a portable spin off right? Also the multiplayer modes in those games play very similarly to the main game. I didn't include their appearances in Secret Rings nultiplayer mode because it's a completely different gameplay style than the main story mode
 

Moltres006

Banned
Jan 5, 2019
1,818
Hahahaha and you're wrong OP because Striker Daisy is more badass than any other Sonic female character.

1547396010462.png
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 5127

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,584
Peach was also playable in Super Paper Mario.

But yeah, for all the hate the Sonic cast gets, it's more diverse and interesting. They also have more character.
 
GameShrink

GameShrink

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,680
Your heart is in the right place, but... have you heard any dialogue from a Sonic game in the past two decades? Since the moment they added audio to these characters, Sonic has been about as lame and cringe worthy as it gets.

They could have the most progressive cast ever, but it doesn't chance a thing if people are too embarrassed to play the games.
 
KillstealWolf

KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,245
Sonic Runners is probably the game that has the biggest Sonic Cast at the moment. Looking at it's list you have...

http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Sonic_Runners

Sonic (+ Classic version)
Tails
Knuckles
Shadow
Rouge
Espio
Charmy
Vector
Amy
Blaze
Omega
Metal Sonic
Big
Cream
Silver
Tikal
Werehog
Sticks
Mephiles

Sonic Forces: Speed Battle has a similar list

Sonic (+ Classic Version)
Tails
Knuckles
Shadow
Rouge
Espio
Charmy
Vector
Amy
Blaze
Omega
Metal Sonic
Big
Cream
Silver
Jet
Storm
Wave
Zavok
Zazz
Chaos

There's also some seasonal variants as well, including Santa Big.

latest


A big issue with a lot of the Mario Cast is all of it's females are Princesses (Even Toadette turns into a Princess now). The other females are Wendy, Birdo (According to NOA) and most recently 2 of the broodals (Madame Broode and Hariet) and Pauline.

Pauline is a sign they are trying to stray away from the Princess (She's the Mayor of New Donk) but Toadette points towards it back towards it (Although this more feels like they wanted to a have a loop-holey way to get a playable Peach into the game).
 
steviestar3

steviestar3

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jul 3, 2018
4,469
This seems like a massive stretch to me. The last mainline Sonic game to really feature a playable female character in any prominent capacity was Sonic Rush Adventure and that game came out over a decade ago. Since then it's been nothing but Sonic/Classic Sonic/your Forces OC... unless you really want to count Sonic Boom.
 
Sub Boss

Sub Boss

Banned
Nov 14, 2017
13,441
Wamb0wneD said:
"Diverse" is the right term haha. It's such a freakshow. Also bringing up Rouge the Bat as a good example of female characters is just...eh.

Lol.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Rouge was kinda cool in SA2, and i think in some parts of the anime were she becomes a spy for the government.after that though :^S

Yeah robots, water monsters, Echidnas, Rabbits, ancient Gods, evil scientists, clones, humans, etc.
The sonic world can be fairly interesting its a shame sometimes this isn"'t realized, specially with recent 3d games.
 
Lant_War

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
Banned
Jul 14, 2018
23,601
Toxi said:
Daily reminder that Blaze is the best post-Genesis Sonic character by far and is more fun than Sonic himself in all of her playable appearances.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They hated Jesus because he told them the truth. Although idk, Ray is super fun to play as.

I'd kill for a new Sonic - Blazd teamup, or for the Mania Team introducing Blaze into the classic universe.
 
Musubi

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,748
Wait what Blaze, Rouge and Amy were all playable in '06?
 
Foffy

Foffy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,400
Musubi said:
Wait what Blaze, Rouge and Amy were all playable in '06?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yes, they considered non-Hedgehog characters as "Amigos", which means they're other playable characters but with fewer segments.

IIRC, of any character in the game, Blaze actually has what's closest to what can be referred to as "competent to control" in Sonic 06. Every. Other. Character requires you to game the game to enjoy them even for a minute.
 
MrBadger

MrBadger

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,552
Amy Rose is a really bad character, the way she's characterised by her stalker-ish obsessions with Sonic, who runs away from her because girls are gross and icky.

I agree with the premise though. The Sonic series has more unique female characters with their own agendas like Blaze and Sticks, while most of the female non-RPG Mario characters are Peach variants or pink versions of male characters with bows in their hair.

Also I think it's pretty rad that the Hard Boiled Heavies don't treat gender like a personality quirk like the Koopalings do. Like, the Heavy Magician and Heavy Rider are female, but their designs are totally unrelated to their gender

latest
latest


Compared to the significantly more dated Wendy Koopa, who's character trait is "the girl"

220px-WendyNSMBU.png


Still though, the Sonic franchise's first attempt at a Koopalings-esque rogues ensemble was so much fuckin worse and didn't have the excuse that it was made in the 80s



Spinky said:
Give me that Super Princess Peach sequel, Nintendo.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Or maybe continue the Mario Galaxy series with Rosalina as the star. Also make her attack by getting emotional
 
Musubi

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,748
Unknownlight said:
Sonic 06 had nine playable characters. Sonic, Shadow, Silver, Tails, Knuckles, Rouge, Omega, Amy, and Blaze.

It was a shitshow, just like all of 06. Too much ambition, too little talent.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Huh. I knew Sonic, Silver, Tails and Knuckles were playable but somehow I missed all the others and I did play it.
 
enkaisu

enkaisu

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,414
Pittsburgh
I like Sonic ladies more because they're not all prim and proper princesses wearing dresses. I love Mario but that shit be boring now.
 
Toxi

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,551
MrBadger said:
Amy Rose is a really bad character, the way she's characterised by her stalker-ish obsessions with Sonic, who runs away from her because girls are gross and icky.

I agree with the premise though. The Sonic series has more unique female characters with their own agendas like Blaze and Sticks, while most of the female non-RPG Mario characters are Peach variants or pink versions of male characters with bows in their hair.

Also I think it's pretty rad that the Hard Boiled Heavies don't treat gender like a personality quirk like the Koopalings do. Like, the Heavy Magician and Heavy Rider are female, but their designs are totally unrelated to their gender

latest
latest


Compared to the significantly more dated Wendy Koopa, who's character trait is "the girl
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I adore the Hardboiled Heavies. Great bosses, great character designs. Really hope they all come back some time (or we get a new set of Heavies ala Megaman).
 
Village

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,811
OP, I agree.
The issue is the people in charge. It doesn't really seem like they value the girl characters and don't really value the girls in their fanbase really. They have an idea that sonic is a boy toy for boys in their head, and its kind of stuck there. Sega or sonic team unfortunately in a lot of aspects lives in kind of a bubble and this is one of the unfortunate side of effects... of many. To compare this to another group of talking funny colored animals, MLP strait up started advertising thier MLP stuff to young boys too and it has worked out fantastically. After the reception to MLP gen 4, they saw that there didn't really need to be that much of a decide anymore. People like what they like, I wish Sega was like that.

They seem to relegate a lot of the girls to side kick characters even when more characters were playable.

I hope in future when more characters are playable again , and I think that's happening, they let more girls be playable and they just are relegated to side kicks and can be their own people. Rouge a character who has operated by herself is basically forced to be shadow's glorified cheerleader, it sucks.

BubbleButt64 said:
I mean, there must be reason why the Sonic franchise has always been statistically most popular with girls.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yes, His name is shadow. ( This is a joke, i mean there's some truth in there but its a joke )

Toxi said:
I adore the Hardboiled Heavies. Great bosses, great character designs. Really hope they all come back some time (or we get a new set of Heavies ala Megaman).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm sure you will get more of them in a mania 2, secret bosses maybe?
 
Parfait

Parfait

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
580
Swift_Gamer said:
Amy Rose is a yan/tsundere character, she is one of the worst archetypes in Japanese media and in sonic games
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
what fanfic did you get that idea from? She is in no way obsessed with sonic to the point of violence with anyone who looks at him, nor does she commit violence and desire/interest within the same breath when interacting with him.
 
MrBadger

MrBadger

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,552
Parfait said:
what fanfic did you get that idea from? She is in no way obsessed with sonic to the point of violence with anyone who looks at him, nor does she commit violence and desire/interest within the same breath when interacting with him.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Ehh she's pretty bad in-universe. I liked the part in Sonic Heroes where she beats the shit out of Sonic to get him to marry her, and the part in Sonic Rush where she threatens Blaze if she dares to go after Sonic because he's hers
 
Skiptastic

Skiptastic

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,718
Today I learned Tails is apparently yellow. I always thought he was orange. Hell, he looks orange in the picture in the OP!
 

Deleted member 23381

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,029
The only two female sonic characters I remember are the bat one who's just furry bait and the pink one who's only characteristic is that she's in love with sonic to an insane degree.

So nah.
 
Andrew-Ryan

Andrew-Ryan

Banned
Dec 4, 2018
645
User Banned (2 Weeks): Dismissing concerns around representation and inclusivity, antagonizing other members, inflammatory thread derailment; account still in junior phase
The characters gender is literally the last thing I notice in games like these. Actually scratch that, it's not even the last thing since I don't notice them ever. Not sure why people think every game needs to have some "message" or "cause".
 
Doorman

Doorman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,962
Michigan
I'm not entirely sure how much this is really an issue of "Sonic has more female playable character potential" as much as it just being "Sonic as a mainline series features a larger array of playable characters in general." In that sense this seems like a really odd debate to really even be launching into.

Sonic Adventure gave you 6 playable characters, one of which was Amy
Mario 64 gave you....Mario
Sonic Adventure 2 had six characters again for its main campaign, no more Amy but you could play as Rouge instead
Mario Sunshine had...Mario
Sonic 06 gave you a brief portion as Blaze IIRC but the bulk of the story was told through the three male hedgehogs
The Mario Galaxy games had...Mario, with a postgame mode letting you play as Luigi instead.

And so on. Most mainline Mario games don't feature a ton of playable female representation because in most of them you only generally have one protagonist at all, and in the cases where there are multiple playable characters, Nintendo has been pretty decent about including Peach as one of the playable characters, NSMBW/U notwithstanding. Sonic meanwhile has featured playable girls in more games largely by virtue of the fact that their games tend to have more playable characters in general, but in those cases it's not like their ratio of male to female characters is any better than the Mario games with multiples. It's still usually one out of four or so (the Sonic Advance series being an exception to this, where you sometimes get two of five).
Is that better "potential" though? I dunno. It wouldn't exactly be difficult to have a new Mario game at this point that could feature Peach, Daisy, Rosalina, Toadette, Pauline, or anybody new they felt like coming up with, to go against Sonic having Amy, Rouge, Cream, maybe Blaze, and then whichever other new friend du jour shows up. In either series, no more than a scant handful of girl characters seem to really have that much lasting power and I'd probably argue that the spinoff games have actually strengthened Mario's ladies in that sense more than Sonic's.
 
Rotobit

Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
10,196
I love Mighty and Ray, they're a very cute nod in a game full of cute nods, but Amy should have been a DLC character in Mania first. At least if Mania 2 happens she's practically guaranteed.

But yeah they should really make Blaze the secondary character in the modern "Boost" games. She's practically got the same abilities as Sonic, just change a few visual effects.

Also in regards to Mario, it's been slowly but surely moving away from the damsel in distress archetype. After Odyssey ended the way it did, I think Peach should either become playable in future 3D exploratory games or have another role.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.