The Sonic and Elise romance in the 2006 game...what were they actual thinking?

[Deleted member 5334]

It's funny, because on the flip side, people seem always very supportive of these two:

It wasn't confirmed outright, but Topaz and Rouge's relationship always felt like they were written as a couple in the show. Plus, Topaz is one of the few characters in the entire franchise (both Sonic X's Universe and the Japanese Game Universe) that she was willing to open up with. The only other one that comes even remotely close is Shadow, though she has a teasing "friendly" relationship with Knuckles.

That said, I never saw anyone complain about these two, but I always constantly see issues people point out with Elise and Sonic. People say the kiss scene, but I've seen complaints about the thing as a whole. I don't know.

 

[Deleted member 18360]

Is this a "furry = bestiality & gross" thread in disguise?
Looks like it.

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Or the aesthetics of having a hydrocephalic xtream cartoon hedgehog kiss a living pubescent precious moments figurine just isn't great.

 

[Dooble]

"Best friends that learn to live carefree because of Sonic and shit" character select

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[fontguy]

.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Elise had a long-ass neck

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Uhhh...

 

[NoKisum]

It's funny, because on the flip side, people seem always very supportive of these two:

It wasn't confirmed outright, but Topaz and Rouge's relationship always felt like they were written as a couple in the show. Plus, Topaz is one of the few characters in the entire franchise (both Sonic X's Universe and the Japanese Game Universe) that she was willing to open up with. The only other one that comes even remotely close is Shadow, though she has a teasing "friendly" relationship with Knuckles.

That said, I never saw anyone complain about these two, but I always constantly see issues people point out with Elise and Sonic. People say the kiss scene, but I've seen complaints about the thing as a whole. I don't know.

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While I admittedly had not seen much of Sonic X (couldn't bear to give it a chance), this looks more like "two female best friends looking out for each other" rather than a romantic relationship. But that's just me.

 

[Acquiescence]

You fucking bigots really ought to stop discriminating against hedgehogs that just happen to be sexually attracted to human beings.

 

[Kaguya]

What's funny is that the idea of Sonic having a human girlfriends dates all the way back to when the first game was in conception.

Though, as you can see, it was clearly meant to be more of a funny/quirky Jessica Rabbit kind of thing, and not like what we ended up getting in Sonic 06

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It was also an idea that got shot down because of how awful it was back in ~1990.

 

[Dooble]

You fucking bigots really ought to stop discriminating against hedgehogs that just happen to be sexually attracted to human beings.

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Sonic isn't attracted to Elise. He tolerated her more or less imo.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

I think Sonic should fuck.

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There's even a Scrooge McDuck comic where it's basically outright implied Scrooge pumped Glittering Goldie in his cabin in Yukon, so I'm kinda surprised there haven't even been hints about Sonic getting laid in some of those weirder Sonic comics (unless there have and I'm just not aware of it).

 

[Deleted member 49179]

You fucking bigots really ought to stop discriminating against hedgehogs that just happen to be sexually attracted to human beings.

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Cool cool cool

 

[XaviConcept]

Who Framed Roger Rabbit takes itself a lot less seriously than Sonic '06.

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You can tell I havent played it haha, one quick demo at E3 before it came out was all I needed to know

 

[Deleted member 5334]

While I admittedly had not seen much of Sonic X (couldn't bear to give it a chance), this looks more like "two female best friends looking out for each other" rather than a romantic relationship. But that's just me.

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I've seen the whole thing and there relationship is absolutely a lot more than just close friends at times. Plus I feel given Rouge's obsession with jewels and her name being Topaz, it's definitely also a little too much on the nose there. Unfortunately falls under the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" in terms of this situation, which has plagued a lot of queer relationships on both parts of the hemisphere on kids content, especially around the time frame the show ran, but Rouge and Shadow's relationship is in a similar situation as well there (despite various implications, notably I believe in Sonic Battle).

 

[Deleted member 49179]

You can tell I havent played it haha, one quick demo at E3 before it came out was all I needed to know

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Haha! Well you didn't miss anything! It's an absolutely awful game on so many levels.

 

[Deleted member 176]

it was a shallow attempt to recreate the classic Maria/Shadow romance, but lightning can't strike twice and sonic isn't an interesting enough character to pull it off

 

[Scarlet Spider]

Sonic Adventure 2 already did it with Shadow and Maria.

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That wasn't romance. They were friends, she was his only friend. Even then in Shadow the Hedgehog Gerald Robotnik referred to Shadow as his son.

 

[boontobias]

What's funny is that the idea of Sonic having a human girlfriends dates all the way back to when the first game was in conception.

Though, as you can see, it was clearly meant to be more of a funny/quirky Jessica Rabbit kind of thing, and not like what we ended up getting in Sonic 06

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Him having a wacky cartoon girlfriend like Roger Rabbit is waayyyyyyyyyy different than the sickeneningly realistic '06 portrayal

 

[Deleted member 23850]

Fuck that shit.

 

[Geist 6one7]

The OG. Max is a half human hybrid.

 

[DrArchon]

Sonic and Elise is just another part of misguided attempt of Sega and Sonic Team to try and make Sonic "cool" or "serious" in order to differentiate the games from other cutesy mascot platformers.

It started with Adventure 1 with the redesigns and addition of vaguely realistic humans but Adventure 1 wasn't too bad about this. It ramped up with Adventure 2 including shady government conspiracies, mass killings, and rescuing the President. Then they skipped this idea with Heroes and everything fine on that front. But then they all lost their minds and made Shadow the Hedgehog which is so edgy as to be adorable in how misguided it is.

And then we got Sonic locking lips with a human.

 

[MizerMan]

Sonic Adventure 2 already did it with Shadow and Maria.

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I never got the feeling that Shadow and Maria were in love with each other

 

[Alent]

Sonics living in the human world is just weird and i don't like when that's done. How do the Sonic characters even use basic human utilities when they're like 3-foot tall and have massive over-sized hands and feet. Where do they come from? Do they have the same basic rights as humans?? I guess they can get jobs and stuff.... if they have the same rights then is the inter-species romance allowed?

 

[Nepenthe]

Sonic was never actually in love with Elise. It would take actually playing the game to know this.

 

[Unknownlight]

it was a shallow attempt to recreate the classic Maria/Shadow romance, but lightning can't strike twice and sonic isn't an interesting enough character to pull it off

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That was a sibling relationship, not a romantic one. Maria is Gerald's daughter, and Shadow is Gerald's "creation".

 

[Deleted member 49179]

Sonics living in the human world is just weird and i don't like when that's done. How do the Sonic characters even use basic human utilities when they're like 3-foot tall and have massive over-sized hands and feet. Where do they come from? Do they have the same basic rights as humans?? I guess they can get jobs and stuff.... if they have the same rights then is the inter-species romance allowed?

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[Scarlet Spider]

That was a sibling relationship, not a romantic one. Maria is Gerald's daughter, and Shadow is Gerald's "creation".

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He refers to Shadow as his son in the true ending route of his game. But yeah, creation/son.

 

[Village]

Its who framed bv rodger rabbit shit done poorly in a series where humans have always been awkward at best outside of eggman. And its played seriously during serious sonic time. Its awkward as hell and there wasn't any thought besides sonic team wanting to do an awful idea they were told no to years ago.

Humans in sonic have always been kinda awkward stuff and bad. And are always awkward looking and weird next to sonic and his friends. The only one to work as eggman because hes stylized but more so represents a concept. Hes like the only human that what's to pollute, deforest and be essentially a dictator. Gun works too as a faceless government organization who commits war crimes and arrests people for bogus charges. They are shit cops, when they tried to a face to them made it worse.

My point here sonic with humans not named eggman has always been kinda bad. Not all of them are Elise or Chris , but I think I speaks volumes you can turn those characters into animals and no one would notice and would probably make whatever game better my enriching the world. Like the idw comic now. Humans are awkward and served no real purpose and never aesthetically fit. And it kinda seems like with forces they finally figured out the audience doesn't need a human surrogate, they want to create their own cool sonic character and go on adventures. Realized decades too late but they did it.

Well good thing there is no more media focusing on awkward as humans that arent eggman that dont work OH WAIT THE FILM GODDAMNIT

Seriously though my point is they weren't thinking anything outside of having an awful idea for sonic that even back in the 90's people thought was awkward and dumb. And sometimes sega/sonic team like to persist with bad ideas untill it explodes in their face. There was no deeper meaning just at misguided attempt at being cool

 

[Dooble]

Sonics living in the human world is just weird and i don't like when that's done. How do the Sonic characters even use basic human utilities when they're like 3-foot tall and have massive over-sized hands and feet. Where do they come from? Do they have the same basic rights as humans?? I guess they can get jobs and stuff.... if they have the same rights then is the inter-species romance allowed?

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"Mr. Sega, Sonic is so cool...I wish he was real..."

Probably fan letters that Sega got before Sonic Adventure.

 

[Yoshimitsu126]

He had her with meow.

 

[GameBuddy]

While I admittedly had not seen much of Sonic X (couldn't bear to give it a chance), this looks more like "two female best friends looking out for each other" rather than a romantic relationship. But that's just me.

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Nah there's gay subtext. Rouge makes a lot of inuendos around her that didn't make it to the dub. Topaz even gets "no homo"d in the last few episodes by getting paired with another character for some reason

 

[Dragon1893]

God, this shit gives me the creeps.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

"Mr. Sega, Sonic is so cool...I wish he was real..."

Probably fan letters that Sega got before Sonic Adventure.

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Actually Sonic was always in our world in JP canon (at least before they decided to retcon it to the Sonic X "two worlds" setup a few years ago).

 

[Village]

Actually Sonic was always in our world in JP canon (at least before they decided to retcon it to the Sonic X "two worlds" setup a few years ago).

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Eh....So here's the thing. I believe you.

However according to Ian Flynn and Sonic Sega people like iizuka, two worlds has been a thing since at least sonic adventure. Now I believe you and I think everyone invovledis kinda bullshitting because two worlds makes multiple sonic plots make less sense than they already do and are built around it being the same place. But unfortunately i'm not the word of god on sonic lore , the guy who is said that's how its been so yeah

 

[Camjo-Z]

They could probably get away with Sonic having a human love interest if she actually fit the cartoony Sonic art style, wasn't absurdly tall compared to him, and didn't have a dreadfully drab and melacholy personality that Sonic would never in a million years find attractive.

Or better yet, just forget all that because Amy already exists.

 

[Syril]

I think they were genuinely trying to do another "Sonic helps out a human friend" thing like Sonic X but either had no clue about the connotations of what they were writing, or they did and with their team cut in half, Yuji Naka leaving and an absurd set in stone release date, weren't able to change anything even if they wanted to.

Didn't the human in Sonic X have an exact same "I don't care about the world, don't leave me Sonic" scene even?

 

[Nostremitus]

They were targeting their primary demographic if online searches for Sonic art are anything to go by.

 

[Sacul64]

it was a shallow attempt to recreate the classic Maria/Shadow romance, but lightning can't strike twice and sonic isn't an interesting enough character to pull it off

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Sonic Adventure 2 already did it with Shadow and Maria.

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There are a few reasons why SA2 was the last 3D Sonic game I ever bought, and that's one of them.

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Sooooo all three of you thought Sega put pedophilia in a Sonic game to no reaction? It was a sibling like relationship WTF?

 

[Dooble]

I think they were genuinely trying to do another "Sonic helps out a human friend" thing like Sonic X but either had no clue about the connotations of what they were writing, or they did and with their team cut in half, Yuji Naka leaving and an absurd set in stone release date, weren't able to change anything even if they wanted to.

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If you played Secret Rings, the whole thing with Sharah tries to go for the same thing. It's done much better.

 

[Deleted member 5334]

Nah there's gay subtext. Rouge makes a lot of inuendos around her that didn't make it to the dub. Topaz even gets "no homo"d in the last few episodes by getting paired with another character for some reason

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Yeah, that was absolutely random. It felt more like a gag, but they kinda kept it up. Though, Topaz crying on Episode 50, I can't help but wonder ultimately in the end there.

That said, not every subtext was removed from the dub and even some people admitted that even watching the dub, it was still very obvious. Though obvious the first joke Rouge said to Topaz was absolutely (and understandably) toned down. I'm still surprised TV Tokyo allowed that, even with how relaxed they often were.

 

[Deleted member 49179]

It always amazed me that Sonic now has a "plot" and a kind of "universe." My first contact as a kid with Sonic was with a Sonic 2 cartridge that came with the Genesis I had for Christmas. Back then it was simple: there was Sonic, and a fox called Tail. You had to run fast, grab rings, and not get hit. There was this evil red dude in weird machines, there were a few emeralds, and little cute animals were popping out of bad guys. The end.

And now we're wondering why a human ever kissed Sonic on the mouth.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

Eh....So here's the thing. I believe you.

However according to Ian Flynn and Sonic Sega people like iizuka, two worlds has been a thing since at least sonic adventure. Now I believe you and I think everyone invovledis kinda bullshitting because two worlds makes multiple sonic plots make less sense than they already do and are built around it being the same place. But unfortunately i'm not the word of god on sonic lore , the guy who is said that's how its been so yeah

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These kind of bullshit lies happen all the time, see Nintendo lying about having a clear Zelda timeline before releasing that slapdash PoS they put in Hyrule Historia to drive sales, or George Lucas saying he had the entire Star Wars trilogy planned out from he start despite all the info we have showing the whole thing was written by the seat of his pants. Doesn't mean the truth isn't obvious to anyone paying attention.

It always amazed me that Sonic now has a "plot" and a kind of "universe." My first contact as a kid with Sonic was with a Sonic 2 cartridge that came with the Genesis I had for Christmas. Back then it was simple: there was Sonic, and a fox called Tail. You had to run fast, grab rings, and not get hit. There was this evil red dude in weird machines, there were a few emeralds, and little cute animals were popping out of bad guys. The end.

And now we're wondering why a human ever kissed Sonic on the mouth.

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Two cartoons and a comic almost immediately followed Sonic 2, so Sonic having a plot/universe has always been a thing. The problem is that there's like 8 different canons and a lot of fans like to swear by one and declare everything else heretical.

 

[The Albatross]

To me, she works rather well as a stand-in for the Sonic fanbase at that time

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Elise as the personification of the twisted weird Sonic fanbase is fucking deep and I love it

 

[Village]

Sooooo all three of you thought Sega put pedophilia in a Sonic game to no reaction? It was a sibling like relationship WTF?

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Its actually weirder and worse than you think. You are thinking shadow's a teenager. No shadow was created in a lab by his two bad dads. Shadow is like a week old while he knows maria. Its weirder and creepier than you orginally thought and the idea that this was supposed to be a romantic couple is ...weird at best. They are both presented as children, and kind of siblings.

 

[Sacul64]

They could probably get away with Sonic having a human love interest if she actually fit the cartoony Sonic art style, wasn't absurdly tall compared to him, and didn't have a dreadfully drab and melacholy personality that Sonic would never in a million years find attractive.

Or better yet, just forget all that because Amy already exists.

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Funny thing is this happened before 06 also add in give human character a tail.

 

[Deleted member 176]

That was a sibling relationship, not a romantic one. Maria is Gerald's daughter, and Shadow is Gerald's "creation".

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The most forbidden love of all

eat your heart out, Shakespeare you hack

 

[Sacul64]

Its actually weirder and worse than you think. You are thinking shadow's a teenager. No shadow was created in a lab by his two bad dads. Shadow is like a week old while he knows maria. Its weirder and creepier than you orginally thought and the idea that this was supposed to be a romantic couple is ...weird at best. They are both presented as children, and kind of siblings.

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Good point I was not even thinking how not understanding of anything shadow was in the flashbacks.

 

[iCodec]

Peach x Bowser, on the other hand...

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Bowser is hot tho

 

[Fahdi]

This kiss shouldn't have ever happened...

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I'm getting hawt and bothered here.






Just bothered actually.

 

[Village]

These kind of bullshit lies happen all the time, see Nintendo lying about having a clear Zelda timeline before releasing that slapdash PoS they put in Hyrule Historia to drive sales, or George Lucas saying he had the entire Star Wars trilogy planned out from he start despite all the info we have showing the whole thing was written by the seat of his pants. Doesn't mean the truth isn't obvious to anyone paying attention.

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I agree

The only hitch in this tale is sonic x and Heroes and shadow the hedgehog which is when if you do believe them , where this shift may have taken place. Sonic heroes takes place in sonic's world and that shit has entirely different architecture and tone compared to the human world. And Shadow's game takes place in the human world and it has that too in comparison to animal land. And sonic X introduced the concept to the larger audience. In sonic adventure one characters know that classic sonic shit happened, which would be kinda odd is there were two worlds there are places like red mountain that look strait out of sonic land. And in sa2, green hill zone is at the bottom of the map, its a bonus but its there. And depending on the interpretation of the lore gerald had echinda shit on his spacestation. In sonic heroes they take time seperate the aesthetics of each world, and in shadow they retcon that echinda stuff was on the arc in the first place. If you had to pin point a reasonable point of origin for this rule, its there

That said all this is bullshit and wrong and they just made it now because in sonic 06 silver is from the future and he's from the same future world the humans are from. While this may have been an idea they thought about for a while, it only got put into serious action very recently

 

[Sub Boss]

Im not against Sonic having human friends as long as its not romantic

Sonic 2016 had a lot of bizarre things