SVB was the only Overwatch YouTuber I know of that unequivocally condemned Blizzard over the Blitzchung situation.
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The Sexism Problem of Overwatch and Gaming; #SpeakUp
- Thread starter Nepenthe
- Start date
It certainly doesn't help that all these big companies championing diversity only do it because it makes for good publicity, they don't actually care that much about sexism or other issues cropping up within their playerbase and their inaction reflects that.
I think GG proved that ignoring this issue wasn't the right approach. It allowed it to fester and grow. It actually then set the template for right wing politics going forwards.
The problem here is that GG advocates didn't just use their platform to make their point, they developed a raft of techniques to spread disinformation and distrust. This allowed them to recruit people to their cause who may have genuinely had some worries about "ethics in game journalism", as spurious a cause as that was. Then radicalisation could begin from there.
So in trying to deflect the issue by not commenting, you empower the alt- right tossers.
I totally get what you are saying though and I think sometimes it is totally right to ignore them. Especially when it comes to Trump style Twitter rants. You only increase engagement by spreading it, even if it is to debunk it.
The problem with GG was that is was so eminently stupid, a thorough critical kicking would have taken a lot of the wind out of it's sails. By choosing to not comment for fear of bias, major sites allowed channers of the world to fill the information gap. Ignoring the issue only works if everyone has already made up their minds. In this case, I think the lack condemnation was legitimizing.
Maybe I'm totally wrong but I know that plenty of people who were involved in the game industry at the time felt they could and should have done more on the issue.
It's easy to look back and think "this wasn't the right approach, since it didn't work. We should have done this instead". But I can't help but wonder if there's an alternate timeline where journalists constantly condemning GG was the signal boosting that caused it to grow even bigger, and the evidence it needed to legitimize its persecutory complex; and if so, there's probably an alternate Weltall Zero and Unclebenny arguing if journalists should have ignored it instead. Again, that timeline is pretty much what happened with the fascist party in my country, so, yeah, hindsight bias and all that. :/
I guess if anything the bottom line is "no use crying over spilled milk"; journalists and developers should rather focus on what to do now and in the future.
Yes, certainly we should focus on the future, I suppose my point is/was that (as with the OP video) it's up to all of us to challenge racism where we see it.
You can't eradicate racism but you can make it clear that our shared spaces are hostile to it and if you are being racist you're going to be ejected pretty quickly.
As the gaming space is such a personality lead medium, I think it is important that those with followings make a point of this as well. Rather than regret inaction, as happened with GG.
Not sure how much this overall helps, especially with cheap OW is to buy these days on PC at least, but this just happened on the 2nd:
I think they are trying, I just don't know a good answer for fully that can come from Blizzards side. I also don't know how big the player base actually is to know how substantial a 7k player ban is. Thought I'd bring this up since I heard about it last night.
I think they are trying, I just don't know a good answer for fully that can come from Blizzards side. I also don't know how big the player base actually is to know how substantial a 7k player ban is. Thought I'd bring this up since I heard about it last night.
The thing is we've seen what happens through all the push back against the right wingers and Trump supporters. These people build an echo chamber and if anything they enjoy anything that obviously angers anyone else. The only real way to combat the hatred is for social media platforms to actively take a stand against it and stop allowing their platforms to be used to spread it. This is also what online games need to do to eliminate all the disgusting behavior. Yelling back on social media has done little to curtail the hatred and I'm doubtful that pushing back in individual game lobbies will do much to make a dent in the problem. In the end you need the people providing a platform for hateful assholes to care to do something about it to really address the problem.
Consider yourself lucky, then. Because I know first hand it has nothing to do with "being bad at the game"; people will take ANY reason to harass others.
Feminine name? "omg a grill" Yes, with that exact typo.
Speak up in text chat? Get called sexist obscenities.
Speak up in voice chat? A matter of time before some guy jumps on the chance to harass you.
Don't speak up in voice chat? You're suddenly "a guy playing a girl" or worse.
Call someone out in chat? Prepared to get call the b-word.
Don't call someone out? You'll still get called that indirectly anyhow.
It goes on-and-on....
These are all different cases from 2016 to 2018, and they're just what I did manage to screenshot. I wasn't able to record the voice chat harassment.
Safe to say, it's bad. It can be almost a game to game occurrence. It's frequently unprovoked. And if you don't have multiple people standing with you to fight back, then it WILL get worse. :\
Imagine after some hard day work, you wanted to enjoy and relaxed with Overwatch, even maybe talkative and being team with people to enjoy together like "today is a good day let's kick some asses in OW and enjoy" lol! Than those words, behaviour... Really so sorry to see that and for you live it. :/
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Yeah, exactly this. Deplatforming works, we've seen it time and again. Twitter and Facebook could have had an infinitely more powerful effect on nipping GG and the alt-right in the bud than every single gaming journalist in the world combined. It's social media giants that we should look at regarding blame and, most importantly, change. We should not accept their shitty excuses anymore; not when Twitter bans people that say "TERF" but leaves actual bigotry unchecked.
Unfortunately "accepting their shitty excuses" means continuing to use their platforms. I don't think most people are going to be willing to give up using Twitter, Youtube, etc. So there is a level of tacit acceptance by the user base. Even this thread is basically decrying the shitty behavior Blizzard allows to happen on a daily basis while wanting to keep supporting Blizzard by continuing to play their games.
It's fucking tragic that women can't just play games online without being harassed at every opportunity by some asshole.
I don't play a lot of competitive games but I know when I played WoW for many years (2005-2012) the woman in our guild were treated fairly and often held various positions of power including serving as guild master, main tank, and raid lead. I know that didn't make them immune from harassment which I am sure they had to deal with from other sources in the game, and I am sure it helped that we all played on an RP server, but I am proud to have been apart of that welcoming environment we fostered.
I don't play a lot of competitive games but I know when I played WoW for many years (2005-2012) the woman in our guild were treated fairly and often held various positions of power including serving as guild master, main tank, and raid lead. I know that didn't make them immune from harassment which I am sure they had to deal with from other sources in the game, and I am sure it helped that we all played on an RP server, but I am proud to have been apart of that welcoming environment we fostered.
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Competitive multiplayer games are an abusive cesspool. I've stopped playing games like Overwatch because I couldn't deal with the stress of always worrying if I'd be insulted before every single match. Those first few seconds of the video made me feel nauseous.
I agree that people speaking up is an important first step but in the end I think the developers and publishers will have to listen and take a strong stance, and introduce consequences. If despite the pressure they still choose to do nothing the problem will never go away. It is better to assume that most who are abusive will not change and need to be removed from their position of power, whether that power comes from being part of a government or something as seemingly innocuous as being allowed to throw around vile insults in a game's chat.
I agree that people speaking up is an important first step but in the end I think the developers and publishers will have to listen and take a strong stance, and introduce consequences. If despite the pressure they still choose to do nothing the problem will never go away. It is better to assume that most who are abusive will not change and need to be removed from their position of power, whether that power comes from being part of a government or something as seemingly innocuous as being allowed to throw around vile insults in a game's chat.
I agree entirely.
I find ridicule to be an effective tool. Like - to paraphrase - rather than "that is sexist and you should stop doing it", dish out a "that's all you've got going in your life, what kind of man are you?". Which in itself is toxic. But it works more often than not. I've seen scumbags implode themselves out of existence in response to being dismissed like that. People who complain about SJWs sure do like to fall to pieces when a SJW calls them a pussy for complaining about SJWs. Schoolyard psychology.
HotS has a system where it autojoins you to the general chat of the server, unless you turn that off. For some reason, almos every time people in the chat are either being queerphobic, racist or sexist. I report people, but it's impossible to tell if the reports are being actioned on or not.
Note that Qhira is the only black female hero in the game.
I keep reporting people, but I have no hope things will change after the Mordhau debacle.
Note that Qhira is the only black female hero in the game.
I keep reporting people, but I have no hope things will change after the Mordhau debacle.