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The Sequel Trilogy's vehicle design philosophy...just sucks.
- Thread starter Fj0823
- Start date
Yeah it goes with the general lack of creativity theme that the sequels had. Not many interesting new vehicles, they were mostly content to just reuse things from the OT. The AT-ATs and Star Destroyers also.
How exactly did the bombers "suck"?
And your criticism of Crait is that the good guys didn't blow up enough stuff?
When is the last time you actually watched the OT? I feel like so many of the criticisms of TLJ come from people who have these hyper-distorted memories of the action in those movies.
Their design, implementation, and effectiveness, or lack thereof.
In the Battle of Hoth they managed to take down multiple AT-ATs and ionized a Star Destroyer. The ski speeders didn't really do anything. What was even their plan for them?
You mean like in the first Death Star battle, when every X-wing got destroyed except Luke's? Pretty ineffective.
And, literally, you're saying that the battle was bad because the good guys didn't blow up a bunch of bad guys? That's your criteria for the quality of a scene?
Don't forget Han Solo's new ship... a square in front of a grid.
I believe that was more of a space station than a ship.
The good guys had zero evidence of a meaningful plan or the means to achieve anything. The response to enemy fire was "run away."
But the battle of Crait nothing happened other than they used a bunch of busted speeders and just all crashed or got blown up. They could of just stayed indoors and the same outcome would of occurred. The first Death Star battle was not every x wing got destroyed just all of the x wings that went into the trench died except for Luke and that has to do with the fact it was moon sized base with guns all over it and a bunch of tie fighters defending it with Vader also being on defense.
With any of the last Jedi battles the outcome of them didn't matter and have no lasting effects.
You...you realize that strategic retreat when faced with overwhelming odds is a perfectly sensible plan? That one of the major themes of the movie is that throwing yourself into a reckless one-in-million-shot maneuver isn't always the right response?
Wait Wedge retroactively died at the Battle of Yavin now? And the surviving Y-wing was a figment of our collective imaginations? Though considering the circumstances were wildly different comparing the two is nonsense to begin with.
And yes I I don't feel plot point that end up pointless are good. They had no plan at the Battle of Crait considering the ski-speedeea showed no offensive capability that I can recall. What was even thier point beside making cool looking red smoke?
The battles in TLJ sucked.
Are we really doing this? The point of every battle in TLJ was character growth. That was the point of those battles.
The major theme of TLJ was "Everyone can fail. Nobody is perfect. What's important is learning from those failures and applying those lessons when you try again". Almost every scene in the movie reinforces that theme.
Yeah I'm not a big fan of the ship designs in the sequel trilogy, the majority of them just seem like slightly tweaked versions of existing designs. The prequel trilogy had some of that too but also had more original designs too.
I don't mind some similar designs, the time period of the sequel trilogy and prequel trilogy is close enough that it makes sense you see some of that but I feel like we should have got some more creativity in the sequel trilogy. The Star Destroyers with a big laser on the bottom felt super lazy to me in Rise of the Skywalker.
I don't mind some similar designs, the time period of the sequel trilogy and prequel trilogy is close enough that it makes sense you see some of that but I feel like we should have got some more creativity in the sequel trilogy. The Star Destroyers with a big laser on the bottom felt super lazy to me in Rise of the Skywalker.
Yeah, Wedge and those Y-wings sure did a lot in that battle, huh? They were super important.
The ski speeders had blasters. They went out in them because the laser weapon was going to crack open their fort, so they couldn't shelter in it. The speeders were a stupid, million-to-one shot, and failed. The entire movie is about how million-to-one shots can fail, and how you shouldn't live your entire life around relying on them.
Again, the insane levels of nitpicking that people apply to TLJ and literally no other movie (let alone the OT) just frustrates me to no end.
Which is kinda hampered by the fact that both battles use the most useless vehicles possible when fighting causing a whole bunch of unnecessary deaths. It would be like racing in a PT cruiser when going against a bunch of f-1 racing cars.
Those bombers were awful aside from being like old bombers from world war 2 and even then it's hard to feel anything from the battles because there aren't any real stakes to them. They destroy the dreadnaught so what? It's established that's there is more than one and the first order had infinite supplies of whatever the plot demands. Again nothing could of happened in crait and the outcome would be the same.
Now you're just moving goalposts as we've gone from the TLJ bombers are stupid, to well only Luke's X-Wing survived the Battle of Yavin so X-wings must be stupid, to oh wait several craft survived the battle but they weren't important. Seriously, Wedge freaking Antilles is now not important.
And when did those ski speeders even use thier weapons to any kind of effect? The whole battle plan just did nothing.
And yes people realize the whole theming they were trying to go for with TLJ, but the scenes and plot points used to build that theme sucked. You end up with stuff like those bombers that have a better chance of blowing themselves up than anything else, most of the movie spent with the resistance just running away and getting blown up, and a dollar store redux of the Battle of Hoth without any of the planning or effectiveness.
But now we're just debating TLJ itself as a movie and that's a pointless endeavor since nobody is changing thier minds on that.
Don't forget Han Solo's new ship... a square in front of a grid.
Hideous
Cuz it didn't do them well. Every fight amounted to one line of things unceremoniously getting crushed by another line of things.
Don't forget Han Solo's new ship... a square in front of a grid.
I actually kinda like that one. It's like a modern cargo ship with the multicolored cargo containers, mixed with a big mack truck front. Definitely gets "SPACE TRUCKER" across.
The retreat was sensible. Nothing that led to it was. The failure of anyone in the scene to have anything resembling a thought made the scene bad. Again, zero plan, zero evidence of means to accomplish anything. This isn't long odds. This is just complete and collective brainlessness. A whole group of otherwise sensible characters catching the idiot ball this hard sucks.
They are pretty. That's it.
TLJ battles were all so god damned stupid, every concept that existed in the universe, established lore, tech, and just common sense of battle tactics are completely out the door for plot sake. Everyone is fucking stupid in every decision made again, to push a plot. To make bad decisions or choices is natural to have, but when everyone on all sides is just being idiots it's a mess. 2 hrs of stupidity by the FO is "they are pompous". You can't take over a galaxy being so fucking stupid. The Resistance doing dumb shit "they are desperate". How the hell are any of them alive? Oh of course, cause the villains are all lead by morons.
But the battles were pretty
Its literally 2 X-wings, 1 Y-wing, and the Falcon flying away as the Death Star explodes. By your logic, it means those ships suck, because so many of them got destroyed. Do you understand how that's a completely pointless metric? One that you clearly aren't applying universally?
The Crait speeders have guns. They clearly have guns. They have the same amount of guns as the Hoth speeders did.
Again, they were a desperate, last-ditch plan that didn't work. The whole point is that it didn't work!
I don't think you do understand the point of the movie. Yes, the Resistance doesn't win. Their plans fail again and again. That's the point. They grow and learn from those failures and approach problems in new ways. That's the whole point!
What could they have done? What options did they have You're?
You're so conditioned to see movie good guys pulling a crazy plan out of their ass and winning that you just cannot accept anything else.
This is such an absurdly false statement that I can't even argue. All I can say is "That's not true".
Been written with some reason for hope, even a fool's hope. When the Rebellion goes against both Death Stars they have a plan. When Han goes into the asteroid field he does it for a reason. When the rebels fly the snowspeeders against the AT-ATs on Hoth, they know the blasters are ineffectual but still have a plan and the means to accomplish it, even if they don't entirely succeed. On Krait they... they didn't seem to have either. And nobody said anything against it. It was just a clear no-hope situation and they didn't seem to even recognize it until they all realized "Oh shit, the First Order is shooting at us."
Almost every vehicle in Star Wars is stupid and impractical if considered from a real-world perspective. It's all aesthetics.
And, yeah, the whole point of the dreadnaught scene is that it wasn't worth it. Poe wants a glorious victory and ends up with a pyrrhic one. That's the point of that scene.
As for Crait, what do you mean? Do you mean the speeders going out to fight was a stupid suicide mission that wouldn't work? Because, yes, it was, but in lots of other stories, a stupid suicide mission succeeds. The whole point of the movie is that glorious million-to-one shots don't always work.
THAT WAS THE POINT! It was a stupid, million-to-one shot and it DIDN'T WORK! That's the whole theme of the movie! That relying on fate and heroes and good always prevailing isn't always a good idea! Sometimes you don't win! And all you can do is learn from your mistakes and try again!
Like most WW2 bombers/transports, which it is clearly inspired by.
If you want to talk about bad practical design then let me introduce you to Star Wars.
The whole point of the scene was to establish Poe as a reckless gung-ho leader. His self centered brash decisions end up destroying one Dreadnaught at the cost of many Resistance lives. Leia literally looks at the camera to explain this when she reprimands Poe for his actions. TFA depicts Poe as a hot shot pilot who shoots stuff good and that's it. There's no room for growth. The bomber scene establishes a character flaw within Poe. By the end of TLJ he learns from his mistakes and corrects the flaw.
They should have never done the sequels without him.
The OT was great because it came from his mind, but he had a team that would help create that vision. The OT was created in a vacuum in the Star Wars universe, it started a lot of stuff off, and it did so fantastically, and sparked a whole universe of creativity.
The PT was also great in some ways, but also bad in others. We got pure GL in those films, the aesthetic and design of the universe was different and so varied, there's also so much going on in the background of these films. Did it pander to the OT, well of course it would, but you could see every bit of tech that would evolve into its OT counterpart, and that was cool. The PT felt like it was this exotic time before the Empire existed, colour and variation reigned. The problem seemed to be no one ever said no to him, so he did what he wanted, and we got some beautiful but iffy films out of them.
The ST really needed that vision behind it, it needed someone to stand there and creatively set it apart from both other trilogies while also joining it together. Instead we got something that pandered far too much to the OT, but never felt like it evolved past using it as a foundation. Whoever decided that a new trilogy and supposed last three films in the "Skywalker Saga" should be directed and also written by three different directors, now two, with their entirely different ideas and concepts, should be ashamed.
That end battle was amazing, It looked and felt like the OT so well. The shots following those X-Wings, everything felt like it had a sense of physicality to it, it felt like a war. It came a year after TFA and the end battles between them couldn't be further apart in quality.
It's such a massive shame. There was so much potential with the ST and they dropped the ball so hard.
But it never feels like that because it's not like there's any chance. These vehicles in the last Jedi will probably never get any use again outside of what they were in because nobody is going to want those back and no person is going to want to plan how that is going to go. These points have already been done in Star Wars and better too so there is no point of doing them again just with awful vehicles.
Wait from which movie is that? That looks like someone kitbashed a Starcraft 2 space cruiser out of a blockade runner!I really disliked this next-gen Blockade Runner they added
I don't know what this is but it is stupid and awesome. Not only do I want a toy of it but I want a full sized one that I can ride to work.hey, this one is memorable, even if maybe for the wrong reasons --
I've got nothing to add to yet another mess of a Star Wars thread, but this... this is truth.
I was never deep enough into Star Wars to get angry about it, but I don't even really feel disappointment with the way things shook out because Rogue One delivered pretty much what I wanted from that universe. My brother and I both agreed after watching it that whatever came after was fine because for us Star Wars had more or less peaked. This was when we expected Solo and TLJ to be awful after TFA was such a shit show, so... yeah.
Now when we talk about the latest Star Wars (when we bother to watch them, we still haven't seen the latest) we just sorta shrug and say "Well, at least we got Rogue One out of it." The Mandalorian was pretty damn good though.
Huh?
I don't remember people ever shitting on prequel ships(besides maybe the Republic Gunship because it was so different to everything in the OT) except for the few rare people that didn't get the visual intention of the prequel ship design.
1950's vehicle aesthetic
1970's vehicle aesthetic
My big thing with the Prequel ship designs when I first saw them (emphasis here is important) is that everything looked so shiny and perfect when to me, the Star Wars aesthetic was all about that slapped-together lived-in and used look. It was hard to square that everything would go from sleek and polished to clunky and scorched in the span of 32 years. Of course, that's easily explained by the sleeker stuff being from different planets with different aesthetics, but it was still jarring as a kid to see those sleek Naboo fighters and think "wait, how do we go from that to x-wings in 30 years?" I feel like the Prequels are too clean and could have had more OT-style ships tucked in to make the transition smoother.
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That's because they do. Almost every common complaint about TLJ applies as much or moreso to ESB.
They end up looking really ineffectual. Granted, them getting blown up because Poe was going off the plan was the point, but it would have helped to show their destructive power at some point to justify them being so ponderous and fragile.
just passing by to say that this ship is the fucking best. Look at this design, it's a 10.