I really enjoyed this video from Matt. Detailed and entertaining.
Sega happened. That's what! DC was such an awesome system, but the past will bite you eventually.
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The Sega Dreamcast- What Happened?
- Thread starter SnatcherHunter
- Start date
I really enjoyed this video from Matt. Detailed and entertaining.
Sega happened. That's what! DC was such an awesome system, but the past will bite you eventually.
I can't watch the video now, but for me it was a combination of Sega's poor reputation following the sega cd/32x/saturn, Sony's marketing muscle, and people wanting a dvd player. EA didn't help either.
The Saturn happened and then the PS2 happened. Obviously that's grossly oversimplifying things but that's the basic gist anyway. Not a bad video but the fall of the Dreamcast and Sega as a 1st party company is pretty well documented. Years of poor (though often interesting) choices combined with the very splintered nature of the company culminated in the failure of the Dreamcast.
User Banned (3 days): advocating piracy
Dreamcast got a second life for me after it was already dead and I learned I could burn whatever game I wanted, haha.
I've never in my life experienced hype like there was for the PS2. It was bigger than the iPhone, Avengers, a new Star Wars. *Everybody* was asking about the PS2. It was unreal. You have to understand, this is before social media, before constant news updates and countless message boards for posting and YouTube. There were stores that didn't even have electronics sections - grocery stores, for example - that had signs up explaining they don't carry the new PS2 for months.
I love the DC. I had one once they went on close out and I still have a solid collection of excellent games for it. But there was no undercutting the juggernaut that was the new Sony console WITH A DVD PLAYER.
I love the DC. I had one once they went on close out and I still have a solid collection of excellent games for it. But there was no undercutting the juggernaut that was the new Sony console WITH A DVD PLAYER.
OP
OP
To be honest, I don't know anyone that had the DC and DIDN'T have burned copies. Especially after console died. Making copies was way too simple IIRC.
People overestimate the role of piracy. CD Burners admittedly became a lot more common during that era, but they still weren't super common. It didn't help, but it was mostly Sony's marketing muscle.
The funny thing was, everyone in gaming was trying to push the Dreamcast. EGM for example ran excellent articles basically arguing to gamers that you could buy a Dreamcast which already had 30-40 excellent games, or wait on a PS2 which probably wouldn't have that many games for several years. (generously) It just didn't take hold for enough people though.
The funny thing was, everyone in gaming was trying to push the Dreamcast. EGM for example ran excellent articles basically arguing to gamers that you could buy a Dreamcast which already had 30-40 excellent games, or wait on a PS2 which probably wouldn't have that many games for several years. (generously) It just didn't take hold for enough people though.
As someone who loved Arcade style games I found it super easy to ignore those three things back in the day. However the hype for the PS2 was truly insane and it seemed like nearly everyone fell for Sony's 'bullish' marketing. I guess nothing's changed on that front.
Really sad to reflect as it was genuinely the end of that arcade era and so many good Sega inhouse studios crumbled to dust years later. AM2, Amusement Vision, Smilebit, Sega Rosso, Hitmaker, The decent Sonic Team who made Samba de Amigo and PSO. What a waste.
Oh, the Dreamcast. My first game for it was Blue Stinger and I didn't had the console back then! My dad bought it to me as a Christmas present on the thought that the PSone we just got could play it. Still own the game but haven't played in a long time.
I grabbed my ex-girlfriend console under her parents permission after she died and still have it on the living room hooked up to the TV just to play Ready2Rumble, her savedata is still on the VMU and I refuse to beat her scores.
Will watch the video later. Thanks!
I grabbed my ex-girlfriend console under her parents permission after she died and still have it on the living room hooked up to the TV just to play Ready2Rumble, her savedata is still on the VMU and I refuse to beat her scores.
Will watch the video later. Thanks!
No. Arguably there's more laser mechanism wear but nothing that would be noticeable to anyone.
I only burned a boot disc to bypass the region locking when I started to import DC games.
More like the teams were reporposed (rather than dust, the employee count was not reduced) because the arcade games still went on in Japan. The VF.NET online innovations for VF4 were likely more benefitting for Sega than the Dreamcast.
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I mean that isn't wrong. The DC came out like gangbusters and the PS2's initial software library was really weak that first year (remember Bouncer and Fantavision, people actually bought that crap at launch). It wasn't until 2001 when the floodgates really opened and we got an embarrassment of software afterwards.
I had both but I am glad I got a DC because I got to enjoy awesome games for 1999 and 2000 instead of getting basically a glorified DVD player on launch. It wasn't until around summer or fall of 2001 when the PS2 really started to hit its stride, and coincidentally when the Dreamcast died.
I got it at launch with Crazy Taxi and have nothing but great memories of it. I remember the incredible amount of hype for the PS2 at that time, but my heart was on Sega back then.
The DC ended up being my favorite system of all time, specially because of all the great racing games such as Daytona (with online play no less), F355 Challenge, Test Drive Le Mans, Sega GT, Speed Devils Online and a bunch of others. Also I loved all the sports games such as Tennis 2k2, NFL 2K and NBA 2k.
Too bad EA was not on board (never heard of the agreement with 3dfx before!) and the lack of a proper football (aka soccer) game was also disappointing, but almost everything else was covered: RPG (Grandia2, SoA), Open World (Shen Mue), platform (3 or 4 sonic games, rayman etc), racing and sports (already mentioned), fighting (so may great ones including VF3, DoA and SNK/Capcom 2d ones), flight sim (AeroDancers or something like that, loved that), puzzle (lots)... arcade perfect ports, retro collections, crazy experiments (Rez, SegaGaga, Seaman, fishing rod games, light gun games)...
Anyway, I still hold on to 2 Dreamcasts and won't ever let them go
The DC ended up being my favorite system of all time, specially because of all the great racing games such as Daytona (with online play no less), F355 Challenge, Test Drive Le Mans, Sega GT, Speed Devils Online and a bunch of others. Also I loved all the sports games such as Tennis 2k2, NFL 2K and NBA 2k.
Too bad EA was not on board (never heard of the agreement with 3dfx before!) and the lack of a proper football (aka soccer) game was also disappointing, but almost everything else was covered: RPG (Grandia2, SoA), Open World (Shen Mue), platform (3 or 4 sonic games, rayman etc), racing and sports (already mentioned), fighting (so may great ones including VF3, DoA and SNK/Capcom 2d ones), flight sim (AeroDancers or something like that, loved that), puzzle (lots)... arcade perfect ports, retro collections, crazy experiments (Rez, SegaGaga, Seaman, fishing rod games, light gun games)...
Anyway, I still hold on to 2 Dreamcasts and won't ever let them go
It's funny how in the West piracy is given as a reason for the Dreamcast's lack of failure, whereas when I was growing up in Abu Dhabi it was the lack of piracy that was an issue. Everyone had modded PlayStations and barely anyone I knew had legit copies of games. I was the weirdo with the Dreamcast, but even when the system was cracked, my friends were put off by (at first) needing to put in a boot disc before being able to play pirate copies of games.
PS2 killed the Dreamcast before it was even released in the west.
This grainy video was being passed around the internet during 1999 and every Dreamcast owner who watched it knew that it was hopeless.
This grainy video was being passed around the internet during 1999 and every Dreamcast owner who watched it knew that it was hopeless.
I would assume that these companies don't really care about people buying the consoles as much as buying the games.
At least in Spain, shops had tons of Saturn in its warehouses and SEGA basically tell them to screw off and carry on with it. So basically nobody wanted to have stock of that new SEGA system, pretty much everybody bought it by preorders in the first few weeks. SEGA sales team was not the nicest.
And then PS2 happened.
It's sad because it was way more powerfull than the rest of the consoles when it launched and it had one of the best launch line-ups I can remember.
Still one of my favourites consoles ever. I even worked at SEGA at the time (maybe I can get verified lol) so the nostalgia is strong in me when it comes to Dreamcast.
And then PS2 happened.
It's sad because it was way more powerfull than the rest of the consoles when it launched and it had one of the best launch line-ups I can remember.
Still one of my favourites consoles ever. I even worked at SEGA at the time (maybe I can get verified lol) so the nostalgia is strong in me when it comes to Dreamcast.
Yeah, that is true, hardware is often sold at cost or even at a loss. My point was more that I was shocked when years later I saw that being given as a reason for the Dreamcast's demise as it was opposite to my experience growing up.
DC never had a chance. It was severely underpowered (to compete in the near future) and didn't offer storage that became pretty much the de facto standard from 2000 onwards. On top of that there was barely any serious third party support. Capcom mostly brought their arcade catalog to it, made a RE for Sega but at the same time released RE3 on PSX.
The timing was so bad. I understand they had to get rid of the Saturn and wanted a headstart of sorts but 1998? PSX was hitting its stride at that moment, it was probably the best year ever for the system (and many would say for gaming in general). 1998 was also the time 3D graphics got serious. There was a huge war going on between video card manufacturers. This also hit Sega themselves, as per the notorious 3DFX deal. Sega got a powerful card regardless. But the overall hardware felt outdated on release imho, even though something like Soul Calibur looked amazing. There were just such big jumps just around the corner. Sony finalized PS2 about 12 months later, and what the system offered felt like a generation ahead. Not immediately, but rather soon after its western release.
Even though the PS2 launch has been laughing stock, I firmly believe no DC game looks as good as RRV, TTT1 and SSX.
Having said all this, the DC was tremendously fun. It may have had too much quick arcade ports but the creativity and boldness was admirable. Rez, Cosmic Smash, CT, Chu Chu, Samba de Amigo, JSR they all originated on DC. Rez VR in fact is one of my fave games this very gen.
The timing was so bad. I understand they had to get rid of the Saturn and wanted a headstart of sorts but 1998? PSX was hitting its stride at that moment, it was probably the best year ever for the system (and many would say for gaming in general). 1998 was also the time 3D graphics got serious. There was a huge war going on between video card manufacturers. This also hit Sega themselves, as per the notorious 3DFX deal. Sega got a powerful card regardless. But the overall hardware felt outdated on release imho, even though something like Soul Calibur looked amazing. There were just such big jumps just around the corner. Sony finalized PS2 about 12 months later, and what the system offered felt like a generation ahead. Not immediately, but rather soon after its western release.
Even though the PS2 launch has been laughing stock, I firmly believe no DC game looks as good as RRV, TTT1 and SSX.
Having said all this, the DC was tremendously fun. It may have had too much quick arcade ports but the creativity and boldness was admirable. Rez, Cosmic Smash, CT, Chu Chu, Samba de Amigo, JSR they all originated on DC. Rez VR in fact is one of my fave games this very gen.
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Not by the time the DC came out. They realized they had lost the entire rest of the world with Saturn and decided to go west heavy and push Sonic and sports titles with the DC. It was too little too late against the PS2 juggernaut but it was definitely their plan.
I have a friend who was a manager of a GameStop (maybe still Funcoland at the time). He swears up and down that at his location when Sega of Japan pulled the plug on the system, Dreamcast games were getting the most pre-orders of any system and the software was selling extremely well on the whole.
It wasn't going to do well in Japan, and ultimately the PlayStation 2 was going to crush it like every other system of that generation. But if Sega of Japan and their US branch had not been at odds with one another, the Dreamcast still probably could have continued to do okay in the West. It certainly would have done better then the GameCube.
It wasn't going to do well in Japan, and ultimately the PlayStation 2 was going to crush it like every other system of that generation. But if Sega of Japan and their US branch had not been at odds with one another, the Dreamcast still probably could have continued to do okay in the West. It certainly would have done better then the GameCube.
TLDW: Sega Japan had disagreements with Sega US as to what to do after the Genesis; they ended up blowing all their extra cash on trying to extend the Genesis life and then even more cash on the Saturn, which in the end affected what the Dreamcast ended up being. They originally wanted a DVD drive, for example, but couldn't afford to put one in. Since they didn't have a lot of money, they couldn't afford to out-market Sony, who put out fake CG videos of what the PS2 could do, so even though Dreamcast came out first, people were willing to wait for those amazing PS2 graphics (FFVII Remake on PS2!) And to make matters worse, EA dropped support for Sega, supposedly because of the GPU Sega chose.
The Dreamcast was still being sold for a loss, and eventually game sales just couldn't support the burn rate.
The Dreamcast was still being sold for a loss, and eventually game sales just couldn't support the burn rate.
Weren't the Visual Concepts sports games popular in the US? I always see talk online about the popularity of the NFL and NBA 2K series during the Dreamcast era, I suppose that would have contributed to increased sales in the US vs Japan.
its probably karma that 2K is essentially murdering NBA Live on a yearly basis. So hard that Live sometimes even sits out a few years.
I loved my Dreamcast so so much. I got so much enjoyment out of that console. Just a brilliant library with more and more cool shit coming out of Japan. It was like a shot in the gut when they suddenly announced they were done.
Lmao you're right. They literally never recovered from that. NBA 2K was one do the games that inspired me to ask for a Dreamcast for Christmas of 99. That shit felt like real life.
It was like a god damn viral whisper campaign or something with the PS2. I've never seen hype for any piece of consumer electronic before or since like you said.
Part of it is that those early 3D games looked really, really bad so there was just so much room for improvement and everyone knew it. Like we appreciated the graphics at the time but everyone knew they were pretty rudimentary compared to what the future would bring.
Plus everyone had that late 90s pre 9/11 optimism about future advances and the PS2 just encapsulated so much of that.
Also a built in DVD player! No more shitty VHS rewinding! Collectively all of society instantly agreed that DVDs were vastly superior and to this day literally no one has nostalgia for VHS (except for a few weirdos) because it was such a garbage ass format.
Lastly, everyone was excited to play all of those beloved franchises on the PS2. Final Fantasy and Gran Turismo - but better than ever on the Playstation 2!
Since I had a Dreamcast, I tried to sell it to all of my friends and I was still the only one that ended up having one. We all bought PS2s of course (provided you could find one, plus did you hear that Walmart is escorting buyers to their car because it's so popular that it makes you a target for thieves?). Honestly I stopped buying Dreamcast games in early 2001 or so because I ended up "all in" on PS2.
Yeah Dreamcast just really never stood a chance.
Never understood why many youtubers feel the need to pull sales figures from their asses.
It's hard to look credible if you don't put some efforts in your researches...
These are the total sell-in data Sega provided to CESA for their consoles:
Mega Drive/Genesis: 30.75 million units
Saturn: 9.26 million units
Dreamcast: 9.13 million units
In the case of Mega Drive/Genesis other companies manufactured the console but those sales would put MD/Gen around 35M instead of the bogus figure shown above.
Sega Mark III/Master System is the one Sega console for which it isn't really clear yet how much it sold in the end (broad guess is between 10M-20M).
It's hard to look credible if you don't put some efforts in your researches...
These are the total sell-in data Sega provided to CESA for their consoles:
Mega Drive/Genesis: 30.75 million units
Saturn: 9.26 million units
Dreamcast: 9.13 million units
In the case of Mega Drive/Genesis other companies manufactured the console but those sales would put MD/Gen around 35M instead of the bogus figure shown above.
Sega Mark III/Master System is the one Sega console for which it isn't really clear yet how much it sold in the end (broad guess is between 10M-20M).
Even during PS2 launch and till mid-2000, Dreamcast held relatively well with some quality exclusives, especially in arcade ports or non-dual analog 3D games. Those games could compete with early PS2 games that still did not utilize the hardware that well.
But when video games started to shift to FPS and cinematic narrative with 3D graphics requiring many gigs of data, marking the next generation, Dreamcast could not compete.
Not that Gamecube or Xbox 1 were that much better, but they had a lot of reserves to last against Sony
But when video games started to shift to FPS and cinematic narrative with 3D graphics requiring many gigs of data, marking the next generation, Dreamcast could not compete.
Not that Gamecube or Xbox 1 were that much better, but they had a lot of reserves to last against Sony
