• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

Popelady

Growth Manager at Splash Damage
Verified
Mar 11, 2019
25
First of all, I enjoy a good discussion, you are not boring me, but forgive my late replays.

I didn't say they don't look at social media, but it can be easily ignored, cause all of it is just talk with no effect.

Again, I am not defending 'Review Bombing' in its current stance, but I can see how effective it is as a tool, the only one with a visible effect to the user. Yet on the other hand I don't think it is denying anyone anything, especially with filter buttons and the ability to detect review bombs quite easily, we are now defending the ignorance of some people, that they don't search or look around before making their purchase. There are plenty of professional reviews on yoututbe/websites, people just need to look. Also most review bombs are useless, you won't find anything to read, and those who write the reason of their review bombing detail their issues and problems, so again one can read the different reviews and focus on those criticizing the game for its mechanics, story telling, AI, .....etc


The thing with social media is that you can delete comments. Like one of my day to day jobs is deleting spam comments (e.g. "buy bitcoin here!") on our adverts & social media posts.

I@m quite lucky in that I've only once been asked to delete a negative comment (not at my current job, and cos they named an employees details) but its so easy to supress comments on ads and posts. Reddit is more difficult but is still possible (if comments are enabled) so steam and personal websites/review websites are the only place that the developers can't moderate.
 

Flash

Member
Oct 27, 2017
377
No because some things being slammed have completely valid and good reasons for being slammed and others do not. Not all situations are equal.

BFV = Not valid for the most part. Despite it having its own issues at launch the vast majority of the downvoting and 0 ratings were because they dared to put female characters in a battlefield game and the butthurt masses couldn't handle that.
When bringing up Battlefield V don't forget to mention:

- Confusing / shit reveal (that differed from the information disseminated to Battlefield influencers from YouTube)
- Beta was really an Alpha in sheep's clothing
- Patrick Soderlund alienating fans by saying "Accept it or don't buy the game" ("Left" DICE before BFV released....imo was fired)
- Staggered release of all their content which left alpha game bare
- Weapon TTK patch released then reversed due to outcry from long time players
- The Battlefield BR released months after the game released in a state that begs the question "Did they even try?"

I am sure all those things above contributed to the review bombs of the game from release till now. Nothing there has to do with a female being on the cover of the game.

Sad to see what DICE has become coming from a long time Battlefield fan. That BR is a joke. The looting and inventory system alone shouldn't be THAT bad but here we are.
 

AniHawk

No Fear, Only Math
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,140
When bringing up Battlefield V don't forget to mention:

- Confusing / shit reveal (that differed from the information disseminated to Battlefield influencers from YouTube)
- Beta was really an Alpha in sheep's clothing
- Patrick Soderlund alienating fans by saying "Accept it or don't buy the game" ("Left" DICE before BFV released....imo was fired)
- Staggered release of all their content which left alpha game bare
- Weapon TTK patch released then reversed due to outcry from long time players
- The Battlefield BR released months after the game released in a state that begs the question "Did they even try?"

I am sure all those things above contributed to the review bombs of the game from release till now. Nothing there has to do with a female being on the cover of the game.

Sad to see what DICE has become coming from a long time Battlefield fan. That BR is a joke. The looting and inventory system alone shouldn't be THAT bad but here we are.

patrick soderlund saying 'accept it or don't buy the game' was a direct response to the gamergater dweebs and alt-right losers crying over 'historical inaccuracy' because a woman was a playable character in a game that takes place in world war 2.

On the [women] in Battlefield, this is something that the development team pushed. Battlefield V is a lot about the unseen, the untold, the unplayed. The common perception is that there were no women in World War II. There were a ton of women who both fought in World War II and partook in the war.

These are people who are uneducated—they don't understand that this is a plausible scenario, and listen: this is a game. And today gaming is gender-diverse, like it hasn't been before. There are a lot of female people who want to play, and male players who want to play as a badass [woman].

And we don't take any flak. We stand up for the cause, because I think those people who don't understand it, well, you have two choices: either accept it or don't buy the game. I'm fine with either or. It's just not ok.


i have an extremely difficult time believing you knew that quote but not the context if you thought it was bad enough to list among everything else.
 

Flash

Member
Oct 27, 2017
377
patrick soderlund saying 'accept it or don't buy the game' was a direct response to the gamergater dweebs and alt-right losers crying over 'historical inaccuracy' because a woman was a playable character in a game that takes place in world war 2.

i have an extremely difficult time believing you knew that quote but not the context if you thought it was bad enough to list among everything else.
Wait you don't understand why someone would be put off of a DICE executive talking to their consumers like that? People were turned off by the hook arm futuristic shit and DICE giving YouTube influencers different info on the reveal not that a women was in the trailer. That women criticism came later by sexist pigs.

That quote is that man lumping all criticisms in with the sexist asshats. When that's not the entirety of the criticism being flung around. It came by no surprise he "left" DICE before the game released. Don't let that quote from the DICE exec reel you into a stupor. A lot of revisionist history going on when discussing the train wreck that was the Battlefield V reveal, it's ironic really.
 

AniHawk

No Fear, Only Math
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,140
Wait you don't understand why someone would be put off of a DICE executive talking to their consumers like that? People were turned off by the hook arm futuristic shit and DICE giving YouTube influencers different info on the reveal not that a women was in the trailer. That women criticism came later by sexist pigs.

That quote is that man lumping all criticisms in with the sexist asshats. When that's not the entirety of the criticism being flung around. It came by no surprise he "left" DICE before the game released. Don't let that quote from the DICE exec reel you into a stupor. A lot of revisionist history going on when discussing the train wreck that was the Battlefield V reveal, it's ironic really.

there is absolutely zero room for ambiguity. that entire quote specifically refers to people who are against women in battlefield v and that they can accept it or don't buy the game.
 

Dinobot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,126
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Review bombing works usually. It's a direct line to pubs and devs. It worked for Ubisoft and Rainbow Six Seige being censored worldwide to make it work for a Chinese release (Ubisoft is now making two different executables).
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
27,941
It's a dickish move from self-entitled people. If they have jobs, I wonder how they'd like it if everyone starting giving 0-star reviews for their place of business on Yelp, FB, etc. over the smallest of things.
 
The guy from the article posts

OilyHands

Member
Mar 28, 2019
1
I have a feeling this will get some TL;DR's lol.


Hi everyone. I'm the fella who was interviewed in the article mentioned by the OP. I must say, I'm surprised there's been this much discussion on the topic. I was a little hesitant to post here, however I feel like the topic is turning a little toxic and believe I can provide some context for the reason I agreed to be interviewed.

For years I've felt as if video game developing has been kind of culled (if you will). It's seemed as if over the years quality seems to be going lower and lower on the priority list, and money-making (yes I know how important this is) is making it's way near the top of the priority list. Whereas in the past, it seemed as if money-making was secondary to making a product which was meant to entertain.

It's true, some of my response was emotional. Who isn't driven by emotion? I feel as if video game development companies can do better. I'm not happy with the culture it's derived. I'm not happy with every game I play having microtransactions. I understand it's purpose, and I never give in and buy unless the game is free and deserves support. I'm not against games like Path of Exile which use microtransactions for in-game bonuses such as larger stashes. That game cost me zero to initially play, and has provided me with much entertainment. So I feel obligated to purchase something they offer to support that game.

In the case of Fallout 76 - the game that the article was written around – I felt as if the game was inherently broken. I spent nearly three days after purchasing it on Bathesda's website trying to get the game to even start. It installed perfectly, but I was stuck with CTD's that had no explanation. Then, finally after trying so hard to get the game going, I reinstalled my copy of Windows and tried the game again after a fresh installation, and it worked. I was very excited to play it as I have followed the series for years. After the first hour I had to walk away. It felt like an empty shell. Kind of like a template to an even larger game. It felt as if I was playing the demo of something greater. It was bad enough that there was no NPCs to talk to, but even worse I ran into quests I couldn't complete and random CTD's that caused me to have to reconnect and start a quest over from scratch.

I could go into more detail, but the point is I was not happy. I vented my frustration as many others did. That's our right as consumers. Thankfully, we have platforms that allow us to do this. Let me emphasize that I'm not sexist or racist, nor do I feel entitled or as if I'm owed something. I payed money for a product for the sole purpose of providing entertainment. That product failed to deliver said entertainment, and I was denied a refund, so I felt as if I was ripped off. I was able to receive a refund at a later date, so at this point I'm at peace with that situation.

During the interview with Rich, I explained to him my philosophy on the subject. I explained that my purpose for writing zero-star reviews (with many other products as well) was solely to stir enough attention to the issue of quality in video games, that developers were forced to at least take a step back and look at the product they are creating. It was not meant as a spiteful act to kill sales (as if negative reviews actually make that much of a difference) or to discount anyone else's value on the product. Yes, you could say "that's not true! You clearly said 'if you support games like this you are the reason the video game industry is the way it is today'" and I would agree. That was emotional (as one person here has said).

However, I do feel as if the new generations of gamers have less and less of a standard of quality. Don't get me wrong, there are some series of games being released – such as The Witcher – that deserve plenty of praise, but, there are equally as many games being released that are clearly thrown together, that did not have any hard work put into them, and were created only to be monetized. That's the reason I'm mad – that's the reason I give zero-star reviews.

I hope to keep this conversation rolling. This isn't something that consumes my life (I do have lots of assignments to get done and finals to prepare for), but I'm hoping to make people aware that they don't have to bend over and be okay with companies like EA and Bethesda releasing low quality entertainment products. We are consumers of these products, and like many here are saying, we can decide with our wallets who succeeds and who doesn't.
 
OP
OP
oni-link

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,014
UK
I have a feeling this will get some TL;DR's lol.


Hi everyone. I'm the fella who was interviewed in the article mentioned by the OP. I must say, I'm surprised there's been this much discussion on the topic. I was a little hesitant to post here, however I feel like the topic is turning a little toxic and believe I can provide some context for the reason I agreed to be interviewed.

For years I've felt as if video game developing has been kind of culled (if you will). It's seemed as if over the years quality seems to be going lower and lower on the priority list, and money-making (yes I know how important this is) is making it's way near the top of the priority list. Whereas in the past, it seemed as if money-making was secondary to making a product which was meant to entertain.

It's true, some of my response was emotional. Who isn't driven by emotion? I feel as if video game development companies can do better. I'm not happy with the culture it's derived. I'm not happy with every game I play having microtransactions. I understand it's purpose, and I never give in and buy unless the game is free and deserves support. I'm not against games like Path of Exile which use microtransactions for in-game bonuses such as larger stashes. That game cost me zero to initially play, and has provided me with much entertainment. So I feel obligated to purchase something they offer to support that game.

In the case of Fallout 76 - the game that the article was written around – I felt as if the game was inherently broken. I spent nearly three days after purchasing it on Bathesda's website trying to get the game to even start. It installed perfectly, but I was stuck with CTD's that had no explanation. Then, finally after trying so hard to get the game going, I reinstalled my copy of Windows and tried the game again after a fresh installation, and it worked. I was very excited to play it as I have followed the series for years. After the first hour I had to walk away. It felt like an empty shell. Kind of like a template to an even larger game. It felt as if I was playing the demo of something greater. It was bad enough that there was no NPCs to talk to, but even worse I ran into quests I couldn't complete and random CTD's that caused me to have to reconnect and start a quest over from scratch.

I could go into more detail, but the point is I was not happy. I vented my frustration as many others did. That's our right as consumers. Thankfully, we have platforms that allow us to do this. Let me emphasize that I'm not sexist or racist, nor do I feel entitled or as if I'm owed something. I payed money for a product for the sole purpose of providing entertainment. That product failed to deliver said entertainment, and I was denied a refund, so I felt as if I was ripped off. I was able to receive a refund at a later date, so at this point I'm at peace with that situation.

During the interview with Rich, I explained to him my philosophy on the subject. I explained that my purpose for writing zero-star reviews (with many other products as well) was solely to stir enough attention to the issue of quality in video games, that developers were forced to at least take a step back and look at the product they are creating. It was not meant as a spiteful act to kill sales (as if negative reviews actually make that much of a difference) or to discount anyone else's value on the product. Yes, you could say "that's not true! You clearly said 'if you support games like this you are the reason the video game industry is the way it is today'" and I would agree. That was emotional (as one person here has said).

However, I do feel as if the new generations of gamers have less and less of a standard of quality. Don't get me wrong, there are some series of games being released – such as The Witcher – that deserve plenty of praise, but, there are equally as many games being released that are clearly thrown together, that did not have any hard work put into them, and were created only to be monetized. That's the reason I'm mad – that's the reason I give zero-star reviews.

I hope to keep this conversation rolling. This isn't something that consumes my life (I do have lots of assignments to get done and finals to prepare for), but I'm hoping to make people aware that they don't have to bend over and be okay with companies like EA and Bethesda releasing low quality entertainment products. We are consumers of these products, and like many here are saying, we can decide with our wallets who succeeds and who doesn't.

Out of curiously, did you pre order Fallout 76 or did you check reviews first before buying it?
 

Sandersson

Banned
Feb 5, 2018
2,535
It's a dickish move from self-entitled people. If they have jobs, I wonder how they'd like it if everyone starting giving 0-star reviews for their place of business on Yelp, FB, etc. over the smallest of things.
Once upon a time I was working in customer service and yeah, when people were not happy about thing X, they complained. And here comes the absolute banger that might blow minds: we reacted to it accordingly. I dont get why people get triggered about this stuff because it happens everywhere and frankly, its the only way to make your voices heard.
 

mclem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,441
I have a feeling this will get some TL;DR's lol.


Hi everyone. I'm the fella who was interviewed in the article mentioned by the OP. I must say, I'm surprised there's been this much discussion on the topic. I was a little hesitant to post here, however I feel like the topic is turning a little toxic and believe I can provide some context for the reason I agreed to be interviewed.

<content snipped>

First of all, thanks for sharing your thoughts; it's more interesting to discuss with the actual participant rather than what we imagine they're like based on an interview!

For years I've felt as if video game developing has been kind of culled (if you will). It's seemed as if over the years quality seems to be going lower and lower on the priority list, and money-making (yes I know how important this is) is making it's way near the top of the priority list. Whereas in the past, it seemed as if money-making was secondary to making a product which was meant to entertain.

Out of interest, what days are you comparing it to? At the risk of beating my own dead horse, I'm wondering if you're comparing it to the PS2 era or earlier, when development of AAA content was considerably more affordable. Going way back, the time I'd associate with entertainment being the priority for developers would be the 80's era of bedroom coders, which is in some way existent today in the form of indies, but AAA devs have their own sustainability to take into account and have to factor that in - leading to, I would suggest, a number of the situations people release 0-star reviews about.

During the interview with Rich, I explained to him my philosophy on the subject. I explained that my purpose for writing zero-star reviews (with many other products as well) was solely to stir enough attention to the issue of quality in video games, that developers were forced to at least take a step back and look at the product they are creating. It was not meant as a spiteful act to kill sales (as if negative reviews actually make that much of a difference) or to discount anyone else's value on the product. Yes, you could say "that's not true! You clearly said 'if you support games like this you are the reason the video game industry is the way it is today'" and I would agree. That was emotional (as one person here has said).

It does sound like - as I suggested in an earlier post in this thread - you're viewing the 0-star review as a protest vote in some form. That's where I can understand to some extent - you need to express frustration, and that's an avenue by which you're doing so - and in doing so, you're serving to corrupt the existing review aggregation process with an outlier.

So then it boils down to 'is it okay to do that?', and I daresay that that's the divide people are going to fall on either side of. My concern is comparing it to things like how the various Puppies factions served to brigade the Hugo award nominations a few years ago and in doing so corrupted those awards; the awards themselves used a different voting process which were more representative of the community, and as a result the community spoke up and blockaded many of the brigaded awards; 'no award' won a surprising number of the awards.

So I'm broadly okay with an individual expressing a protest vote - that has minimal impact on the aggregation in itself - but when a large group of people do it such that it outweighs sincere votes from sincere people, that corrupts the result, and that absolutely is a concern.

There's a followup, of course: Does that matter? I mean, it's only a number on some website, is it so important that it matters if it's ruined by people who feel passionately about a subject, it's just reflecting their feelings? That's something I can't answer, ultimately, because it's kind-of dependent on who uses user scores and whether this action is useful to them. Ultimately a review is a service for others, but I'm never really clear on how many people actually use these metrics.

(I should add that this is in no way defending FO76 - and as a corollary, not related to you - but if we're taking the phenomenon as a whole, we have to also take into account the situations where people are using this power for evil)

However, I do feel as if the new generations of gamers have less and less of a standard of quality. Don't get me wrong, there are some series of games being released – such as The Witcher – that deserve plenty of praise, but, there are equally as many games being released that are clearly thrown together, that did not have any hard work put into them, and were created only to be monetized. That's the reason I'm mad – that's the reason I give zero-star reviews.
I'd question 'equally as many', I don't think there's many games that are quite as disastrous as FO76! Still, it's fair to say that there's a lot of things to complain about in the industry as a whole right now - the question, I guess - and this would be a personal thing for you - is whether you feel your complaint is so significant that it should disproportionately outweigh the opinions of someone who doesn't share it. Which again, of course, perhaps highlights that this isn't a metric people should particularly care about anyway!