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The Rise of Skywalker - Spoiler Thread [SPOILERS INSIDE]
- Thread starter Gustaf
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Just came back from the film. Wow, just wow. I'm in shock in just how creatively bankrupt the whole thing is. There isn't a single interesting idea within the entire story. There are so many callbacks that I audibly groaned. I guess the epilogue would have been better if ending on another binary sunset hadn't been preceded by an absolute landslide of visual callbacks.
My main issue is just how all the things I liked about the sequel trilogy had been just discarded. Kylo Ren's potentially exciting turn as primary villain of the story (at least for longer than 0 seconds) had been removed in lieu of return of Palpatine. Hux, completely sidelined and discarded. Pretty much every point of Episode VIII (force is primarily being one with nature, focusing too much on lightsabers vs idolizing Luke's saber once again in ROTS, etc) is discarded. Snoke was a bad villain, but him being a puppet of Palpatine is even worse. Also, the film feels at the same time overstuffed and having completely superfluous plot. And what plot there is feels like a bad videogame, with an episodic structure, constant chase of macguffins and shonen anime-level threat escalation. Like, seriously, I'm just glad that that was actually Palpatine and not his clone. He was strangely incompetent though - how could an ever powerful emperor put all his hope into a girl that exhibited some doubt, but never felt like she could go full Dark Empress. I also laughed at how many times they went 'oh but there's another one' - two transport ships on sand planet, two ships on Endor, a spare lightsaber, two wayfinders. I guess Threepio's memory backup counts too?
So I can be rambling on and on about what I didn't like, I'm just so disappointed. Sheev's face when Rey blocked him with two lightsabers was great tho
PS. As for ranking, hard to decide off the bat, but right now I'd go ESB>TLJ>ANH>TFA>ROTJ>RO>ROTS>TROS>Solo/TPM>AotC?
My main issue is just how all the things I liked about the sequel trilogy had been just discarded. Kylo Ren's potentially exciting turn as primary villain of the story (at least for longer than 0 seconds) had been removed in lieu of return of Palpatine. Hux, completely sidelined and discarded. Pretty much every point of Episode VIII (force is primarily being one with nature, focusing too much on lightsabers vs idolizing Luke's saber once again in ROTS, etc) is discarded. Snoke was a bad villain, but him being a puppet of Palpatine is even worse. Also, the film feels at the same time overstuffed and having completely superfluous plot. And what plot there is feels like a bad videogame, with an episodic structure, constant chase of macguffins and shonen anime-level threat escalation. Like, seriously, I'm just glad that that was actually Palpatine and not his clone. He was strangely incompetent though - how could an ever powerful emperor put all his hope into a girl that exhibited some doubt, but never felt like she could go full Dark Empress. I also laughed at how many times they went 'oh but there's another one' - two transport ships on sand planet, two ships on Endor, a spare lightsaber, two wayfinders. I guess Threepio's memory backup counts too?
So I can be rambling on and on about what I didn't like, I'm just so disappointed. Sheev's face when Rey blocked him with two lightsabers was great tho
PS. As for ranking, hard to decide off the bat, but right now I'd go ESB>TLJ>ANH>TFA>ROTJ>RO>ROTS>TROS>Solo/TPM>AotC?
prob between rots and ros. I put it higher when it came out, but I've rewatched some other films since then. It's a decent film that does nothing wrong, but it really doesn't do anything right either.
I can kind of see where JJ was coming from bringing back palps, because I felt that kylo was too much of a joke to really hold the final villain position for me, but I think his return could have been handled a LOT better. Hux was made an absolute joke in TLJ so killing him and upgrading with richard e grant was fine with me, no worries there. I love his reason for being the spy lol
I question whether palps ever really expected anything from rey. Felt like he'd kill her or take her over and was fairly unconcerned which way it went
My ranking would be the following
<Masterpiece tier>
Empire Strikes Back
Star Wars / A New Hope
<Great tier>
The Last Jedi
<Good tier>
Return of the Jedi
Rogue One
<Mediocre tier>
The Force Awakens
<Bad tier>
Revenge of the Sith
Solo
The Phantom Menace
The Rise of Skywalker
<One of the worst movies ever made tier>
Attack of the Clones
<Masterpiece tier>
Empire Strikes Back
Star Wars / A New Hope
<Great tier>
The Last Jedi
<Good tier>
Return of the Jedi
Rogue One
<Mediocre tier>
The Force Awakens
<Bad tier>
Revenge of the Sith
Solo
The Phantom Menace
The Rise of Skywalker
<One of the worst movies ever made tier>
Attack of the Clones
I loved the First Order's army being led by an ego-driven smarmy kid. Richard E Grant's character was not built up in any way and is just another spin on Tarkin. I like Richard E Grant, but it was a supremely boring choice, among many others.
I was actually surprised that Rey was a Palpatine, that had never really crossed my mind. I suppose the options could only be a Skywallker, Kenobi, Solo, Palpatine or a random. The story of her Grandmother and how her father lived so long without being found by Palpatine could be an interesting story to tell I guess.
ranking wise its def in the bottom tier for me:
Force Awakens
Return
Revenge
Rogue One
Phantom Menace
New Hope
Attack of the Clones
Empire
Solo
Rise of Skywalker
Last Jedi
Force Awakens
Return
Revenge
Rogue One
Phantom Menace
New Hope
Attack of the Clones
Empire
Solo
Rise of Skywalker
Last Jedi
So sheev either raped someone or someone willingly wanted to fuck a literal and figurative monster.
Palpatine's grand-daughter that made out with Space Hitler after he put her best friend in a coma and is the hero of the Skywalker Saga.
He just made kylo look even worse by existing though, because he was useless and kylo should have killed him. Hux shouldn't have survived through tlj as the character he was. Grant being the first actually competent person in the first order took one look at him and iced him.
I know people like the alt right allusion rian put into the first order, but really having these morons who can't tie their own shoelaces put the rebellion to the brink of extinction just makes the rebellion itself look even worse by comparison because they can't beat these losers.
or it was while he was senator/chancellor.
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meh, vader did worse and they still redeemed him.
palpatines granddaughter tho
Trump has children. Most dictators do. Sheev is responsible of genocide and many other crimes. What's your point?
I'm not sure there's much to discuss there, it was just bad. It looks bad and it was bad.
That said, Finn and Rey didn't really share any screen time together in the second film, so there wasn't much you could develop from that And they seemed much better as friends. That being said, the actual development with Rey and Kylo is just bad. I could tell there is some kind of underlying sexualish tension there in terms of their force bond, but the actual execution of that is...dubious. I think it would've been far more interesting if it was played off as strong friends, and nobody got any half baked romance instead of getting multiple half baked romances all around.
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exactly, palpatine being the puppet master and fucking round the galaxy isnt really that outlandish
I can accept that more because Luke and Vader didn't want to fuck each other and he's his dad.
There is something problematic there but Rey and Ben making out is on a whole other level.
I don't think that's the message that we need to send people.
This is some Twilight shit.
Not to mention that this makes Rey so much of a worse person for locking lips with him.
He is the Emperor of the whole galaxy, evil, and can shoot lightning out of his hands. No one would really have a choice.
Well, it's not like Ben's gonna be around to get in his way.
... Ooh, unless he Force ghost haunts their relationship in the future. That would be just wacky enough to work.
Sure, he's a literal space Nazi, and she's a freedom fighter... but hear me out...
I can't approve of the kiss. I don't know why Rey even needs to have any kind of romantic interest in these films.
Yeah it's gone. He gives her a nice pat on the shoulder at one point, friend zoned.
Yes a little, he comments that he can sense something at one point and talks about how he believes in the Force now.
yes, didn't want to see the scene itself but he pulled it off really well
yes
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Nothing stops Ghost! Ben and Rey from banging. We already know that they can interact in the real world and impregnating someone via the Force is possible.
This is gonna be Ben and Rey the day after the movie ends:
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Nothing stops Ghost! Ben and Rey from banging. We already know that they can interact in the real world and impregnating someone via the Force is possible.
This is gonna be Ben and Rey the day after the movie ends:
can you stop equating their true love to just fucking?
So why did it suddenly shift to night time when Ray first communicates with Ben through the Force Speak thing (Does It have a name? I dunno). After speaking it transistions right back to day again anyway.
That was weird.
I also swear Harrison Ford's name wasn't in the credits for this either.
That was weird.
I also swear Harrison Ford's name wasn't in the credits for this either.
The more I think about this movie the more disappointed it makes me. It has soured my opinion on the trilogy as a whole (which I absolutely loved until now), and maybe the 9 films.
While I don't think it's a super retcon of TLJ like some reviews say (in fact, I was surprised in how faithful it was in some details and following some plots), it also completely misses the point of that film and the best decisions it made (of course, everything related to Rey's family, the lack of a real Resistance, the whole idea of the light and dark side being just an old interpretation of the force, etc). I find baffling that the part I liked the most is a copy of one of the best moments of TLJ, but worse (when Ghost Luke and Rey talk, I think TLJ did it WAY BETTER with Luke and Ghost Yoda, way more meaning).
This third film should have been Rey vs Kylo, period. I'm still not sure why Palpatine is in this movie, other than "we need a villain!", yet again, Kylo should have been that. You don't have to kill him, redeem him at the end if you want to, use the Knights of Ren for that (which are fucking useless by the way, after being eternally hyped after TFA). And, at worse, if you're going to make Rey a Palpatine and build a movie around her insecurity about her family, at least make it a real plot, not as a superficial theme to drive people to other Macguffins.
Honestly, I liked the second half of the movie more, because the first half is a disaster, it's a movie without any direction or plot, just things happening. And, I have to say, except for the kiss, I liked the ending in general.
Though I'm baffled that no one at Disney (or JJ) saw the finished movie and even thought how the ending is AN EXACT COPY of Avengers Endgame, with the same exact beats (Cap with Mjonir/Ben with Anakin's lightsaber, Falcon on the radio + Portals/Lando on the radio + hyperlight ships, "I am inevitable and I am Iron Man"/"I am all the sith and I am all the jedi"......)
It's not the worst, it has its moments, but it definitely lets down as a trilogy finisher, a saga finisher and as a movie in general.
While I don't think it's a super retcon of TLJ like some reviews say (in fact, I was surprised in how faithful it was in some details and following some plots), it also completely misses the point of that film and the best decisions it made (of course, everything related to Rey's family, the lack of a real Resistance, the whole idea of the light and dark side being just an old interpretation of the force, etc). I find baffling that the part I liked the most is a copy of one of the best moments of TLJ, but worse (when Ghost Luke and Rey talk, I think TLJ did it WAY BETTER with Luke and Ghost Yoda, way more meaning).
This third film should have been Rey vs Kylo, period. I'm still not sure why Palpatine is in this movie, other than "we need a villain!", yet again, Kylo should have been that. You don't have to kill him, redeem him at the end if you want to, use the Knights of Ren for that (which are fucking useless by the way, after being eternally hyped after TFA). And, at worse, if you're going to make Rey a Palpatine and build a movie around her insecurity about her family, at least make it a real plot, not as a superficial theme to drive people to other Macguffins.
Honestly, I liked the second half of the movie more, because the first half is a disaster, it's a movie without any direction or plot, just things happening. And, I have to say, except for the kiss, I liked the ending in general.
Though I'm baffled that no one at Disney (or JJ) saw the finished movie and even thought how the ending is AN EXACT COPY of Avengers Endgame, with the same exact beats (Cap with Mjonir/Ben with Anakin's lightsaber, Falcon on the radio + Portals/Lando on the radio + hyperlight ships, "I am inevitable and I am Iron Man"/"I am all the sith and I am all the jedi"......)
It's not the worst, it has its moments, but it definitely lets down as a trilogy finisher, a saga finisher and as a movie in general.
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Ya Reylo is EXTREMELY problematic.
Sexual assault aint love bud.
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Ben's true love:
he doesnt know she is in the falcon tho
also im just half joking
It was garbage and one sided anyway and that's coming from someone who liked TLJ
I thought he knew because of the Force. Huh. I never realized he might not know.
Just needed to balance out how the baddies spawn units faster than very hard AI in Total War.
The thing is TLJ sets up Kylo as the big bad and irredeemable (Leia says that her son's gone and Luke agrees), and that's what it should've been. But then they run into the problem that Kylo is actually awful at being a bad guy. He comes across as incompetent at being a villain and just overall non threatening for a big bad.
It was a lose-lose situation but I do think the point of redemption was in TLJ since we saw the torn between light and dark since the first film itself, and missing that window just makes this redemption seems weird. His story was always set up for a redemption from the first film and it should've gone that way in TLJ even if they wanted to remove snoke from the equation in TLJ. TLJ ended on a hopeful note so it didn't really need to set up a villain for the next film. And ultimately that setup meant nothing as he never really does villain things in this movie and just does his usual confused between light and dark stuff.
And oh btw Rey called Kylo a murderer in TFA and a monster in TLJ, then Kylo rejects a redemption later on in TLJ...and now he's redeemed and they are kissing. Which is just...lol.
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I'm sure JJ read Dark Empire
everyone gets a superweapon
Should have just been the flagship though, like the eclipse had.
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